Finally some common sense re electric cars

[bitrex]

On 7/1/19 7:46 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

someone who does engineering but doesn't have an engineering degree IMO
isn't strictly-speaking an "engineer" while someone with a mechanical
engineering degree who does electrical engineering is still an engineer
but is not an "electrical engineer" and so on.

Engineers are kinda relaxed people not really pedantic about stuff like
that, not at all like those "coastal elites" with their snooty
anthropology degrees thinkin' they're all better than everyone. /s

There are true issues with Teslas. The location of the filler cap is not one of them.

mostly the prices

 

[Phil Allison]

Rick the fucking Cunt wrote:

** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand.


** That would be one of the few correct statemnets posted by this utter nutter.


Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her?


** For one thing, it was a not starting up.

For another, the environment was noisy, being a busy road.

Plus, it was coasting to a stop on a slight down hill slope.

The asshole driver could easily see what was about to happen and did NOT blow the horn.

So exactly the same thing would happen if the taxi had been an EV

** Read my post you fucking NUT CASE !!!!

Especially this bit:

" But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs."

Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.


** This lying, fucking tenth wit cannot resist proving my case over and over.

Yes, I get that. Obviously you are talking about your own argument.

** Wot a desperate fact twisting, context shifting pile of criminal SHIT you are Mr Cunt. No contemptible act is beneath you.

Molested any 5 year old kiddies lately ??

Course you have.

You are an amazing..

** You are one psychotic scumbag who needs shooting.




..... Phil

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 9:17:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/1/19 7:46 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them..

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

someone who does engineering but doesn't have an engineering degree IMO
isn't strictly-speaking an "engineer" while someone with a mechanical
engineering degree who does electrical engineering is still an engineer
but is not an "electrical engineer" and so on.

Engineers are kinda relaxed people not really pedantic about stuff like
that, not at all like those "coastal elites" with their snooty
anthropology degrees thinkin' they're all better than everyone. /s

There are true issues with Teslas. The location of the filler cap is not one of them.


mostly the prices

You think $35,000 is too much for a fully battery EV with a 240 mile range? You are a tough customer.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 10:36:35 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Rick the fucking Cunt wrote:



** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand.


** That would be one of the few correct statemnets posted by this utter nutter.


Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her?


** For one thing, it was a not starting up.

For another, the environment was noisy, being a busy road.

Plus, it was coasting to a stop on a slight down hill slope.

The asshole driver could easily see what was about to happen and did NOT blow the horn.

So exactly the same thing would happen if the taxi had been an EV


** Read my post you fucking NUT CASE !!!!

Especially this bit:

" But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs."



Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.


** This lying, fucking tenth wit cannot resist proving my case over and over.

Yes, I get that. Obviously you are talking about your own argument.


** Wot a desperate fact twisting, context shifting pile of criminal SHIT you are Mr Cunt. No contemptible act is beneath you.

Molested any 5 year old kiddies lately ??

Course you have.


You are an amazing..


** You are one psychotic scumbag who needs shooting.




.... Phil

I'm not the one who is going off like a nut case talking about shooting people.

It doesn't take much to rattle your cage. You must be terribly insecure.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

Rick Cunt wrote:

Rick the fucking Cunt wrote:



** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand.


** That would be one of the few correct statemnets posted by this utter nutter.


Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her?


** For one thing, it was a not starting up.

For another, the environment was noisy, being a busy road.

Plus, it was coasting to a stop on a slight down hill slope.

The asshole driver could easily see what was about to happen and did NOT blow the horn.

So exactly the same thing would happen if the taxi had been an EV


** Read my post you fucking NUT CASE !!!!

Especially this bit:

" But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs."



Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.


** This lying, fucking tenth wit cannot resist proving my case over and over.

Yes, I get that. Obviously you are talking about your own argument.


** Wot a desperate fact twisting, context shifting pile of criminal SHIT you are Mr Cunt. No contemptible act is beneath you.

Molested any 5 year old kiddies lately ??

Course you have.


You are an amazing..


** You are one psychotic scumbag who needs shooting.




.... Phil

I'm not the one who is going off like a nut case talking about shooting people.

** I am not the one continuously net stalking, breaking every usenet NG rule and carrying on like a schizophrenic maniac either.

A bullet in the head would be far too quick for a raving lunatic and public menace like you.

For over 10 long years YOU have ben the biggest, scumbag ASSHOLE and brainless MORON on the NG.

I hope yet bowel cancer and fucking die a vile death.



..... Phil

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 1:57 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 9:17:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 7:46 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

someone who does engineering but doesn't have an engineering degree IMO
isn't strictly-speaking an "engineer" while someone with a mechanical
engineering degree who does electrical engineering is still an engineer
but is not an "electrical engineer" and so on.

Engineers are kinda relaxed people not really pedantic about stuff like
that, not at all like those "coastal elites" with their snooty
anthropology degrees thinkin' they're all better than everyone. /s

There are true issues with Teslas. The location of the filler cap is not one of them.


mostly the prices

You think $35,000 is too much for a fully battery EV with a 240 mile range? You are a tough customer.

can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900.
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

and you can only finance or lease thru Tesla and their rates are nuts,
e.g. $400/mo with $4500 down for a 10k mile/yr lease plus $695
acquisition fee, on the SR+ model. that's nuts for a car with a sub 40k
MSRP. No option to buy out the end of the lease either.

BMW or Benz terms look fantastic by comparison; if the "average
consumer" doesn't want to buy outright with the $40,000 cash most
Americans just have sitting around, they'll save money by leasing a MB
A-Class or BMW 3 series instead even paying for fuel

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 3:19 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/3/19 1:57 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 9:17:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 7:46 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable
it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker,
people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind
them.

     ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

     ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the
front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up
even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the
coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why
Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how
they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know
why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough
for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for
the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun
reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching
back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid
for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

someone who does engineering but doesn't have an engineering degree IMO
isn't strictly-speaking an "engineer" while someone with a mechanical
engineering degree who does electrical engineering is still an engineer
but is not an "electrical engineer" and so on.

Engineers are kinda relaxed people not really pedantic about stuff like
that, not at  all like those "coastal elites" with their snooty
anthropology degrees thinkin' they're all better than everyone. /s

There are true issues with Teslas.  The location of the filler cap
is not one of them.


mostly the prices

You think $35,000 is too much for a fully battery EV with a 240 mile
range?  You are a tough customer.


can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900.
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

and you can only finance or lease thru Tesla and their rates are nuts,
e.g. $400/mo with $4500 down for a 10k mile/yr lease plus $695
acquisition fee, on the SR+ model. that's nuts for a car with a sub 40k
MSRP. No option to buy out the end of the lease either.

BMW or Benz terms look fantastic by comparison; if the "average
consumer" doesn't want to buy outright with the $40,000 cash most
Americans just have sitting around, they'll save money by leasing a MB
A-Class or BMW 3 series instead even paying for fuel

Like most American consumers I don't think I'd get an EV to _lose_ money
as compared to an ICE luxury sedan around the same price, I'd get myself
the A class instead it gets pretty good gas mileage, if the 3 at those
numbers were my only options.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 12:55:28 AM UTC+2, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 3:38:33 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 1:50:13 AM UTC+2, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 8:09:55 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Rick Cunt wrote:

<snip>

But not near hot enough for a fucking nut case cuntheat like you.

It is always entertaining to discuss an issue with Phil. He is a fountain of information and is always happy to share his entirely rational, well thought and articulately expressed explanation.

Rick C is less inclined to express himself forcefully, but does have some odd opinions to which he is irrationally attached,

Lol! As the pots calls the kettle black!

I'm sure that Rick C likes to think that, but the trouble with being attached to
irrational opinons is that you get into the habit of rationalising away the counter-arguments, mostly by a process of deciding that they come from irrational people.

I quoted from a highly regarded 2008 book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded

and he told me that the ideas put forward don't line up with his personal experience, so they had to be irrational. This doesn't actually line up with current expert opinion either, but I'm still being "irrational" for putting it forward.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

Bill Sloman wrote:

I'm sure that Rick C likes to think that, but the trouble with being attached > to irrational opinons ..

** Is that you are at least to some extent mentally ill.

A combination of childish narcissism ( very common among women ) and a decent dose of autism renders a person almost incapable of rational thought.

Instead, they latch onto any seemingly appealing idea and or mindless clichĂŠ as being the truth and it become their mindset.

A famous person (an economist is think) once said that you cannot reason a person out of a position that they were never reasoned into in the first place.

Waste of time to even try.


..... Phil

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:15:04 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Rick Cunt wrote:
Rick the fucking Cunt wrote:



** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand.


** That would be one of the few correct statemnets posted by this utter nutter.


Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her?


** For one thing, it was a not starting up.

For another, the environment was noisy, being a busy road.

Plus, it was coasting to a stop on a slight down hill slope.

The asshole driver could easily see what was about to happen and did NOT blow the horn.

So exactly the same thing would happen if the taxi had been an EV


** Read my post you fucking NUT CASE !!!!

Especially this bit:

" But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs."



Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.


** This lying, fucking tenth wit cannot resist proving my case over and over.

Yes, I get that. Obviously you are talking about your own argument..


** Wot a desperate fact twisting, context shifting pile of criminal SHIT you are Mr Cunt. No contemptible act is beneath you.

Molested any 5 year old kiddies lately ??

Course you have.


You are an amazing..


** You are one psychotic scumbag who needs shooting.




.... Phil

I'm not the one who is going off like a nut case talking about shooting people.



** I am not the one continuously net stalking, breaking every usenet NG rule and carrying on like a schizophrenic maniac either.

A bullet in the head would be far too quick for a raving lunatic and public menace like you.

For over 10 long years YOU have ben the biggest, scumbag ASSHOLE and brainless MORON on the NG.

I hope yet bowel cancer and fucking die a vile death.

No, you are the model citizen only putting down rabid dogs and vermin. Unfortunately because of posts like this one you are one of the rabid dogs. Are you going to put yourself down?

I'll say a few words (more than 4 letters mostly) at your grave.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 3:19:17 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/3/19 1:57 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 9:17:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 7:46 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

someone who does engineering but doesn't have an engineering degree IMO
isn't strictly-speaking an "engineer" while someone with a mechanical
engineering degree who does electrical engineering is still an engineer
but is not an "electrical engineer" and so on.

Engineers are kinda relaxed people not really pedantic about stuff like
that, not at all like those "coastal elites" with their snooty
anthropology degrees thinkin' they're all better than everyone. /s

There are true issues with Teslas. The location of the filler cap is not one of them.


mostly the prices

You think $35,000 is too much for a fully battery EV with a 240 mile range? You are a tough customer.


can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900.
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

Yes, the $35,000 version is the same car as the standard plus, but they turn off features in software. So while you have to ask for it, it is as available as any other model.

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 3:23:57 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/3/19 3:19 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/3/19 1:57 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 9:17:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 7:46 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable
it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker,
people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind
them.

     ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

     ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the
front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up
even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the
coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why
Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how
they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know
why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough
for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for
the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun
reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching
back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid
for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

someone who does engineering but doesn't have an engineering degree IMO
isn't strictly-speaking an "engineer" while someone with a mechanical
engineering degree who does electrical engineering is still an engineer
but is not an "electrical engineer" and so on.

Engineers are kinda relaxed people not really pedantic about stuff like
that, not at  all like those "coastal elites" with their snooty
anthropology degrees thinkin' they're all better than everyone. /s

There are true issues with Teslas.  The location of the filler cap
is not one of them.


mostly the prices

You think $35,000 is too much for a fully battery EV with a 240 mile
range?  You are a tough customer.


can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900..
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

and you can only finance or lease thru Tesla and their rates are nuts,
e.g. $400/mo with $4500 down for a 10k mile/yr lease plus $695
acquisition fee, on the SR+ model. that's nuts for a car with a sub 40k
MSRP. No option to buy out the end of the lease either.

BMW or Benz terms look fantastic by comparison; if the "average
consumer" doesn't want to buy outright with the $40,000 cash most
Americans just have sitting around, they'll save money by leasing a MB
A-Class or BMW 3 series instead even paying for fuel

Like most American consumers I don't think I'd get an EV to _lose_ money
as compared to an ICE luxury sedan around the same price, I'd get myself
the A class instead it gets pretty good gas mileage, if the 3 at those
numbers were my only options.

I don't know why people like you insist on distorting the facts. The Tesla designs have lower fuel costs and virtually no maintenance. Operating costs are low enough that the car will pay for itself over the ownership period.

But then you knew that. You are totally on top of the facts. You just don't like the facts, so you don't mention most of them.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[speff]

I don’t think the noise is an issue in Spain and Portugal- the tires on cobblestones make more than enough of a racket. I bet the road surfaces are a lot more durable than asphalt too.

—Spehro Pefhany

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 9:59 AM, Rick C wrote:

Like most American consumers I don't think I'd get an EV to _lose_ money
as compared to an ICE luxury sedan around the same price, I'd get myself
the A class instead it gets pretty good gas mileage, if the 3 at those
numbers were my only options.

I don't know why people like you insist on distorting the facts. The Tesla designs have lower fuel costs and virtually no maintenance. Operating costs are low enough that the car will pay for itself over the ownership period.

But then you knew that. You are totally on top of the facts. You just don't like the facts, so you don't mention most of them.

Only about 1% of Americans have the assets to buy a 35-40k car outright
in cash, the only other options are to lease or finance, you can only do
the latter two things thru Tesla, the numbers aren't negotiable as far
as I'm aware, and 39 month $400/month 10k mile/yr lease with $4500 down
on a $35 or $39 or $40k car is a fukin' rip-off! it is!

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 9:59 AM, Rick C wrote:

Like most American consumers I don't think I'd get an EV to _lose_ money
as compared to an ICE luxury sedan around the same price, I'd get myself
the A class instead it gets pretty good gas mileage, if the 3 at those
numbers were my only options.

I don't know why people like you insist on distorting the facts. The Tesla designs have lower fuel costs and virtually no maintenance. Operating costs are low enough that the car will pay for itself over the ownership period.

If you can afford to buy a 3 outright in cash, possibly. 99% of
Americans don't have the free assets to do that. 75% live
paycheck-to-paycheck.

Why does anyone who can afford to buy a $40,000 product outright care
about operating costs or fuel costs?

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote:

can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900.
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

Yes, the $35,000 version is the same car as the standard plus, but they turn off features in software. So while you have to ask for it, it is as available as any other model.

It's not that many many friends my age (late 30s, early 40s) and my
girlfriend too, do not intellectually like the Model 3 just fine and
would be happy to drive one.

They...cannot...afford...one. Not even the base model. Not on their
middle-class salaries of e.g. $54,000/yr as a school-teacher or truck
maintenance guy.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 5:05 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:




I'm sure that Rick C likes to think that, but the trouble with being attached > to irrational opinons ..


** Is that you are at least to some extent mentally ill.

A combination of childish narcissism ( very common among women ) and a decent dose of autism renders a person almost incapable of rational thought.

Instead, they latch onto any seemingly appealing idea and or mindless clichĂŠ as being the truth and it become their mindset.

A famous person (an economist is think) once said that you cannot reason a person out of a position that they were never reasoned into in the first place.

Waste of time to even try.


.... Phil

Being rational isn't the way to get ahead in America, Phil. I'd say it's
often actively counter-productive, here.

The best way to have a relaxed life, though, is when you see someone
post on social media about pulling the input PFC boost filter cap out of
their Korg Oaysis because they believe they've found the 'bad'
component, say matter-of-factly "That's the input PFC boost filter cap.
What makes you think that's the problem? that's a pretty dangerous thing
to be doing if you're not sure"

And they'll likely double-down and say in so many words "I wasn't
looking for advice, I just wanted to let people know what I'm up to
today. Pulling this 'bad' capacitor."

And then say a silent prayer for them and go do something fun like meet
friendly girls or something. god bless.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 11:56:41 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/3/19 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote:

can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900.
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

Yes, the $35,000 version is the same car as the standard plus, but they turn off features in software. So while you have to ask for it, it is as available as any other model.


It's not that many many friends my age (late 30s, early 40s) and my
girlfriend too, do not intellectually like the Model 3 just fine and
would be happy to drive one.

They...cannot...afford...one. Not even the base model. Not on their
middle-class salaries of e.g. $54,000/yr as a school-teacher or truck
maintenance guy.

Ok psych job. You should try to focus on the points you want to make. I was responding to your statements about your car preferences...

Like most American consumers I don't think I'd get an EV to _lose_ money
as compared to an ICE luxury sedan around the same price, I'd get myself

I am explaining that an EV is a cheaper car to own and you would not "lose_money"...

I'm not sure what your real point is. I guess you just like making noise and are still jealous about the Volt being dropped like a hot potato because of the dismal sales. Tesla sells as many model 3s in a quarter as Volts were ever sold. But you may not know that since no one you know can afford one.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 9:54 AM, Rick C wrote:

** I am not the one continuously net stalking, breaking every usenet NG rule and carrying on like a schizophrenic maniac either.

A bullet in the head would be far too quick for a raving lunatic and public menace like you.

For over 10 long years YOU have ben the biggest, scumbag ASSHOLE and brainless MORON on the NG.

I hope yet bowel cancer and fucking die a vile death.

No, you are the model citizen only putting down rabid dogs and vermin. Unfortunately because of posts like this one you are one of the rabid dogs. Are you going to put yourself down?

I'll say a few words (more than 4 letters mostly) at your grave.

huh huh, old people are cool:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSmpojU-Ufg>

Yeah! Yeah! rake fight! rake fight!

 

[bitrex]

On 7/3/19 12:27 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 11:56:41 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/3/19 9:56 AM, Rick C wrote:

can't get one stock for 35k the cheapest option I see available to order
on their site without factoring in tax incentives/gas saving is $39,900.
I guess there's an "off-menu" option for around 37? who knows how long
that take to get.

Yes, the $35,000 version is the same car as the standard plus, but they turn off features in software. So while you have to ask for it, it is as available as any other model.


It's not that many many friends my age (late 30s, early 40s) and my
girlfriend too, do not intellectually like the Model 3 just fine and
would be happy to drive one.

They...cannot...afford...one. Not even the base model. Not on their
middle-class salaries of e.g. $54,000/yr as a school-teacher or truck
maintenance guy.

Ok psych job. You should try to focus on the points you want to make. I was responding to your statements about your car preferences...

Like most American consumers I don't think I'd get an EV to _lose_ money
as compared to an ICE luxury sedan around the same price, I'd get myself

I am explaining that an EV is a cheaper car to own and you would not "lose_money"...

I'm not sure what your real point is. I guess you just like making noise and are still jealous about the Volt being dropped like a hot potato because of the dismal sales. Tesla sells as many model 3s in a quarter as Volts were ever sold. But you may not know that since no one you know can afford one.

Point is the same as it always was since my first post on the topic. The
point was their current product line is too expensive to ever make them
more than a niche-market luxury automaker designed fairly specifically
to appeal to the "well, if you could afford one you'd understand.."
market segment - that's why you have one.

Looking at their upcoming product concepts that doesn't look set to
change anytime soon.

Selling high-priced products to people who can pay it is a fine business
strategy, but not usually a world-changing one. Tesla isn't the Honda or
Ford or Chevy or Volkswagen of EVs or gonna get all of America off
gasoline by its lonesome. If and when that happens my guess is it will
probably be accomplished by Honda, Ford, Chevy and Volkswagen, et al.