Finally some common sense re electric cars

[bitrex]

On 6/30/19 4:47 PM, Piotr Wyderski wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote:

and you cannot you tax everybody's electricity

Namely, why? They can and will tax everything they want, rest assured.
In the case of shortage of money they become extremely creative.
Requiring a government-approved charging plug and heavy fines for the
disobedient is one option. But not yet, it is the allurement time, you
should not scare your prey...

    Best regards, Piotr

They've been thinking about ways to make up for the speculated shortfall
in gasoline tax revenue since they minute they heard of 'em. Don't you
worry we'll end up paying our "fair share" one way or another...

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 30/06/2019 11:08 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Gentlemen,

You may recall a while ago I complained about the fact that I can no
longer cross the road without looking because of these stupid electric
cars. Well, it's GOOD NEWS! Governments around the world are adopting my
solution of forcing the cars to make an artificial noise so people like
me can once again cross the road safely without bothering to look first.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/

Meh, I can't see why an alarm can't be built into the software that is
used with the area detection. Most modern vehicles have autonomous
braking that recognises amongst other things, a human. That could be
tweaked to extend the range and trigger the warning.

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 6:45:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 6/30/19 4:59 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
TTman wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

I've done exactly the same thing in my truck, crept up behind people to follow them (mostly because I can't get around them while they walk in the middle of the aisle) and they don't even know I'm there. I have to rev the engine to get them to turn around an look, not that I'm trying to hurry them, but I really don't want to follow them to the other side of the parking lot when they can just walk along the side of the aisle.

The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

Not sure what that sound would be like. I knew a guy who had an old electric car from early last century. It had a gong bell on the front you could ring to alert pedestrians. They would drive it along the walkways at the county fair, sneak up behind people and ring the bell to watch them jump!

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 6:39:47 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:14:58 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:


Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never
cross a road without looking?


** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

EV drivers ARE the problem too, they have NOT adjusted their driving habits to take account of the fact pedestrians cannot hear them - so they still expect them to jump out of the way as they approach from behind.

A recent example that I experienced involved a new, popular Toyota sedan that a local taxi company has bought a heap of.

One was parked in a driveway with its rear adjacent to the footpath. As I walking right behind it, the car too of at me - completely silently - no engine start up or other noise to warn me.

I glared at the smug turd driving who had failed to use his mirrors or his neck
to see if the footpath was clear and then I saw small badge on the back with the word "hybrid".

The same problem exists with ICE vehicles.


** What bullshit - ICE vehicles cannot start up or move off silently.

Pedestrians have been relying on that fact for over a hundred years.

And pedestrians have been getting run over by ICE cars since they were invented.

It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.



** Fraid that make no sense at all, normal for a colossal idiot like you..

And of course if you don't understand something your only response is to denigrate a person rather than asking them to explain.

If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case.


** Bullshit - the typical difference is HUGE, probably over 40dB.

From inaudible to very audible.

You simply did not read my post, the taxi appeared to be unoccupied and parked, then it moved off at me silently.

YOU didn't read the report by the people who are making the rules about adding noise generation to EVs. I am reporting what they said. Your BS 40 dB number is something you made up. Even an electric car isn't producing 10 dB of noise unless it is completely off and not moving. Heck, the air conditioner makes more noise than that.


> The day you write a sensible post will also be a cold day in hell.

The day you make a post that is actually of value on anything other than audio will be... from previous experience, never.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.


** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

** Sounds like an excellent idea.


.... Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock. Sooner or later vandals would find some way of sabotaging the thing otherwise. I'm wondering how they've not had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD. I've had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the charge port is fine. Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach. I don't know why you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for GM to continue making them.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jun 2019 22:47:18 +0200) it happened Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote in <qfb74p$m2l$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:

and you cannot you tax everybody's electricity

Namely, why?

Because in the Netherlands they just taxed the sh*t out of gas for cooking and heating to protect the 'climate',
and then 'compensated [1]' that by lowering the tax on electricity,
basically forcing home owners to do away with their gas heating-cooking,
moving to hot water systems in cities, and electric heating elsewhere ? Solar water heating?
Nobody knows, building industry has a big foot in decision making here.
Also the 'gas' we get out of the ground here caused a lot of earthquakes resulting in lots of damage claims..
So they will reduce natural gas drilling here (and export).
So for those sneaky cheap electric drivers a new solution needed to be invented.

Pay per km...

They ARE clever ;-)


[1] just 20 % up for the energy cost this year for everybody.
I am waiting for a 'thank you letter' from the polar bears.

They can and will tax everything they want, rest assured.
In the case of shortage of money they become extremely creative.
Requiring a government-approved charging plug and heavy fines for the
disobedient is one option. But not yet, it is the allurement time, you
should not scare your prey...

Best regards, Piotr

Yes, it is a big mass manipulation show, climate is changed by earth orbital changes:
https://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
but taxing the weather and selling snake oil solutions is BIG business, invented by Al Gore IIRC.

The sad thing is that all little kids got brainwashed by that crap and now (clever as they are) decided to use the Fridays
to demonstrate for the climate, LOL, so no school on Fridays,
man if I could have thought of that in my school days I would play along too.


Future?

MY opinion is that we should bring all energy sources online that we can,
as far in the future after perhaps mass flooding and an other ice age will happen,
mass migration, wars for resources and land, and less space and worse living conditions for humans will
likely decimate the population..
So shutting down nuclear and coal plants and all that losing the knowhow for that technology,
and relying on wind and water power alone, is a nono.
I will stop the rant here, like in medieval times superstition, science manipulated by churches and rulers,
will lead to dark times...

 

[bitrex]

On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

 

[bitrex]

On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem
is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some way
of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not had
people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've had
ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the charge
port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong spot for
collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why you are
such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for GM to
continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely low
operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and forth
for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market that hits
all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

I'm an engineer I'd tell you straight if I thought it sucked. It don't
suck it was well-done. That many Americans consumers shrugged is less a
commentary on the car but a commentary on the mentality of consumers and
what they respond to.

That's why Windows is most popular operating system because as compared
to OS/2 Warp or BeOS in 1995 it was just better designed.....
.....
.....

 

[bitrex]

On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.


** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

** Sounds like an excellent idea.


.... Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock. Sooner or later vandals would find some way of sabotaging the thing otherwise. I'm wondering how they've not had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD. I've had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the charge port is fine. Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach. I don't know why you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for GM to continue making them.

I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely low
operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and forth
for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market that hits
all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.


** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

** Sounds like an excellent idea.


.... Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock. Sooner or later vandals would find some way of sabotaging the thing otherwise. I'm wondering how they've not had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD. I've had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the charge port is fine. Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach. I don't know why you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for GM to continue making them.

It's an old design, now, project started circa 2006. Old designs are
retired and there's not much more place to go with it and just about
everyone who wanted one, got one.

GM has new EVs in the works, probably a lager all-electric SUV/crossover
at the least. That's what they figure the American buyer wants, in the
main.

 

[Phil Allison]

Rick Cunt wrote:

The same problem exists with ICE vehicles.


** What bullshit - ICE vehicles cannot start up or move off silently.

Pedestrians have been relying on that fact for over a hundred years.

And pedestrians have been getting run over by ICE cars since they were invented.

** Massive irrelevance.

Try learning to read you stinking moron.

It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.



** Fraid that make no sense at all, normal for a colossal idiot like you.

And of course if you don't understand something your only response is to denigrate a person rather than asking them to explain.

** I just asked you to explain - you fucking retard.

If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case.


** Bullshit - the typical difference is HUGE, probably over 40dB.

From inaudible to very audible.

You simply did not read my post, the taxi appeared to be unoccupied and parked, then it moved off at me silently.


YOU didn't read the report by the people who are making the rules about adding noise generation to EVs.

** No need to as your quote was out of contest and nonsense.


> I am reporting what they said.

** But irrelevant.

Your BS 40 dB number is something you made up.

** Likely an underestimate, silence and loud noise differ quite a bit.



Even an electric car isn't producing 10 dB of noise unless it is completely off and not moving.


** Fraid that makes no sense at all - yet again.

The day you write a sensible post will also be a cold day in hell.

** Fraid it is still pretty hot down there.

But not near hot enough for a fucking nut case cuntheat like you.



...... Phil

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 8:09:55 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Rick Cunt wrote:




The same problem exists with ICE vehicles.


** What bullshit - ICE vehicles cannot start up or move off silently.

Pedestrians have been relying on that fact for over a hundred years.

And pedestrians have been getting run over by ICE cars since they were invented.


** Massive irrelevance.

Try learning to read you stinking moron.



It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.



** Fraid that make no sense at all, normal for a colossal idiot like you.

And of course if you don't understand something your only response is to denigrate a person rather than asking them to explain.


** I just asked you to explain - you fucking retard.



If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case.


** Bullshit - the typical difference is HUGE, probably over 40dB.

From inaudible to very audible.

You simply did not read my post, the taxi appeared to be unoccupied and parked, then it moved off at me silently.


YOU didn't read the report by the people who are making the rules about adding noise generation to EVs.


** No need to as your quote was out of contest and nonsense.


I am reporting what they said.

** But irrelevant.


Your BS 40 dB number is something you made up.


** Likely an underestimate, silence and loud noise differ quite a bit.



Even an electric car isn't producing 10 dB of noise unless it is completely off and not moving.


** Fraid that makes no sense at all - yet again.



The day you write a sensible post will also be a cold day in hell.


** Fraid it is still pretty hot down there.

But not near hot enough for a fucking nut case cuntheat like you.



..... Phil

It is always entertaining to discuss an issue with Phil. He is a fountain of information and is always happy to share his entirely rational, well thought and articulately expressed explanation.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 1:17:55 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/1/19 1:16 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/1/19 1:10 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:38 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 7:43:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph
limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if
the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low
speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the
problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking
about the issue -  it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is
the FACT that it is NEW.


.....   Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

   ** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to
emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your
presence, I
liked that better.

   ** Sounds like an excellent idea.


....  Phil


It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail
light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking
mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.

Of course it should lock.  Sooner or later vandals would find some
way of sabotaging the thing otherwise.  I'm wondering how they've not
had people steal the charging cables for the copper.

BTW, all the other stuff you wrote about is pretty much FUD.  I've
had ice on my car that incapacitated the fold out mirror, but the
charge port is fine.  Bitching that the charge port is in the wrong
spot for collisions seems like a pretty far reach.  I don't know why
you are such a Volt fan boi when the car wasn't even good enough for
GM to continue making them.


I'm a "fan boi" basically because it's a perfectly suited car for the
job it does, it's a pleasure to drive, it's been morning-sun reliable,
it was well-engineered, is at least not offensively ugly, extremely
low operating costs even when running dual fuel and switching back and
forth for longer trips, and as of yet there's nothing on the market
that hits all the buttons as well for as low a price as I paid for 'em..

I'm an engineer

er excuse me "hardware designer"

Ok, you are excused.

There are true issues with Teslas. The location of the filler cap is not one of them.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 1:50:13 AM UTC+2, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 8:09:55 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Rick Cunt wrote:




The same problem exists with ICE vehicles.


** What bullshit - ICE vehicles cannot start up or move off silently.

Pedestrians have been relying on that fact for over a hundred years.

And pedestrians have been getting run over by ICE cars since they were invented.


** Massive irrelevance.

Try learning to read you stinking moron.



It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.



** Fraid that make no sense at all, normal for a colossal idiot like you.

And of course if you don't understand something your only response is to denigrate a person rather than asking them to explain.


** I just asked you to explain - you fucking retard.



If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case.


** Bullshit - the typical difference is HUGE, probably over 40dB.

From inaudible to very audible.

You simply did not read my post, the taxi appeared to be unoccupied and parked, then it moved off at me silently.


YOU didn't read the report by the people who are making the rules about adding noise generation to EVs.


** No need to as your quote was out of contest and nonsense.


I am reporting what they said.

** But irrelevant.


Your BS 40 dB number is something you made up.


** Likely an underestimate, silence and loud noise differ quite a bit.



Even an electric car isn't producing 10 dB of noise unless it is completely off and not moving.


** Fraid that makes no sense at all - yet again.



The day you write a sensible post will also be a cold day in hell.


** Fraid it is still pretty hot down there.

But not near hot enough for a fucking nut case cuntheat like you.

It is always entertaining to discuss an issue with Phil. He is a fountain of information and is always happy to share his entirely rational, well thought and articulately expressed explanation.

Rick C is less inclined to express himself forcefully, but does have some odd opinions to which he is irrationally attached, which doesn't seem to be one of Phil's probelms.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 30/06/2019 22:14, Phil Allison wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote:


Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never cross
a road without looking?


** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up
behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

Plenty do not look before stepping off - they are too busy texting!

In the UK it is usually a cyclist that hits them rather than an EV.

EVs at low speeds in car parks are disconcertingly quiet when they move
away almost silently with no familiar ICE starter motor noise.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Phil Allison]

Martin Brown wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:


Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never cross
a road without looking?


** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up
behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

Plenty do not look before stepping off - they are too busy texting!

** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

In the UK it is usually a cyclist that hits them rather than an EV.

** Cyclists hit lots of people cos they are both silent an incredibly arrogant.

EVs at low speeds in car parks are disconcertingly quiet when they move
away almost silently with no familiar ICE starter motor noise.

** Exactly as I have posted already in this thread.

EVs and hybrids are a menace in the hands of careless drivers - especially commercial ones.


...... Phil

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 3:22:11 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:


Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never cross
a road without looking?


** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up
behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

Plenty do not look before stepping off - they are too busy texting!


** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand. Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her? Maybe we need to add noise to all vehicles to bring them up to a level that can't be ignored? Say 90 dBA?

In the UK it is usually a cyclist that hits them rather than an EV.


** Cyclists hit lots of people cos they are both silent an incredibly arrogant.

When in DC and seeing a cyclist coming, I lean into them. I've been nearly knocked to the ground by them before. Time to fight back!

EVs at low speeds in car parks are disconcertingly quiet when they move
away almost silently with no familiar ICE starter motor noise.


** Exactly as I have posted already in this thread.

EVs and hybrids are a menace in the hands of careless drivers - especially commercial ones.

Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 3:38:33 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 1:50:13 AM UTC+2, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 8:09:55 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Rick Cunt wrote:




The same problem exists with ICE vehicles.


** What bullshit - ICE vehicles cannot start up or move off silently.

Pedestrians have been relying on that fact for over a hundred years.

And pedestrians have been getting run over by ICE cars since they were invented.


** Massive irrelevance.

Try learning to read you stinking moron.



It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.



** Fraid that make no sense at all, normal for a colossal idiot like you.

And of course if you don't understand something your only response is to denigrate a person rather than asking them to explain.


** I just asked you to explain - you fucking retard.



If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case.


** Bullshit - the typical difference is HUGE, probably over 40dB.

From inaudible to very audible.

You simply did not read my post, the taxi appeared to be unoccupied and parked, then it moved off at me silently.


YOU didn't read the report by the people who are making the rules about adding noise generation to EVs.


** No need to as your quote was out of contest and nonsense.


I am reporting what they said.

** But irrelevant.


Your BS 40 dB number is something you made up.


** Likely an underestimate, silence and loud noise differ quite a bit.



Even an electric car isn't producing 10 dB of noise unless it is completely off and not moving.


** Fraid that makes no sense at all - yet again.



The day you write a sensible post will also be a cold day in hell.


** Fraid it is still pretty hot down there.

But not near hot enough for a fucking nut case cuntheat like you.

It is always entertaining to discuss an issue with Phil. He is a fountain of information and is always happy to share his entirely rational, well thought and articulately expressed explanation.

Rick C is less inclined to express himself forcefully, but does have some odd opinions to which he is irrationally attached,

Lol! As the pots calls the kettle black!

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 7:45:15 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Rick the Cunt wrote:




** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand.


** That would be one of the few correct statemnets posted by this utter nutter.


Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her?


** For one thing, it was a not starting up.

For another, the environment was noisy, being a busy road.

Plus, it was coasting to a stop on a slight down hill slope.

The asshole driver could easily see what was about to happen and did NOT blow the horn.

So exactly the same thing would happen if the taxi had been an EV with crap to make it sound like an ICE... got it!

EVs at low speeds in car parks are disconcertingly quiet when they move
away almost silently with no familiar ICE starter motor noise.


** Exactly as I have posted already in this thread.

EVs and hybrids are a menace in the hands of careless drivers - especially commercial ones.

Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.


** This lying, fucking tenth wit cannot resist proving my case over and over.

Yes, I get that. Obviously you are talking about your own argument.

You are an amazing... well, something. I think it is DLU who uses your same technique. No real thought, just swearing and insults. Too bad your brain can't come up with anything worth reading.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

Rick the Cunt wrote:

** I have seen that happen *once*, I had to scream at a young woman to prevent her walking straight in front of a taxi pulling into a rank cos she was texting while crossing a busy road. But it is far from the norm and not related to silent EVs.

I don't understand.

** That would be one of the few correct statemnets posted by this utter nutter.


Why didn't the 50 dB noise the taxi was making warn her?


** For one thing, it was a not starting up.

For another, the environment was noisy, being a busy road.

Plus, it was coasting to a stop on a slight down hill slope.

The asshole driver could easily see what was about to happen and did NOT blow the horn.

EVs at low speeds in car parks are disconcertingly quiet when they move
away almost silently with no familiar ICE starter motor noise.


** Exactly as I have posted already in this thread.

EVs and hybrids are a menace in the hands of careless drivers - especially commercial ones.

Yeah, just like ICE vehicles.

** This lying, fucking tenth wit cannot resist proving my case over and over.



..... Phil