Finally some common sense re electric cars

[Cursitor Doom]

Gentlemen,

You may recall a while ago I complained about the fact that I can no
longer cross the road without looking because of these stupid electric
cars. Well, it's GOOD NEWS! Governments around the world are adopting my
solution of forcing the cars to make an artificial noise so people like
me can once again cross the road safely without bothering to look first.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/



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[Winfield Hill]

Cursitor Doom wrote...

You may recall a while ago I complained about the fact that I can no
longer cross the road without looking because of these stupid electric
cars. Well, it's GOOD NEWS! Governments around the world are adopting my
solution of forcing the cars to make an artificial noise so people like
me can once again cross the road safely without bothering to look first.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/

Not sure how that's going to go down, but let me again point
out that modern non-EV cars, with engine idling while slowing
for an intersection, are as quiet as EV cars. In both cases
you're relying on the car's tire noise, etc., which for an
EV with its extra-firm higher-mileage tires, may actually
be more noisy.

Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never
cross a road without looking?


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[TTman]

On 30/06/2019 16:08, Cursitor Doom wrote:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/

Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...

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[Martin Riddle]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:57:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:08:39 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor
Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in <qfaj9n$qo6$3@dont-email.me>:

Gentlemen,

You may recall a while ago I complained about the fact that I can no
longer cross the road without looking because of these stupid electric
cars. Well, it's GOOD NEWS! Governments around the world are adopting my
solution of forcing the cars to make an artificial noise so people like
me can once again cross the road safely without bothering to look first.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/

Noise, how much noise?
Could be a problem in cities.
beep beep beep all the time in front of your house 24/7?

Here some other interesting thing is happening,
there were plans to have a charge per km (charge per mile for those who do not know what a km is) system for cars,
but those plans got binned again and again.
Now somebody realized electric cars use cheap electricity,
and you cannot you tax everybody's electricity, like they tax petrol and diesel fuel here,,,
so the solution, the old plan:
A pay per km system for ALL cars, including electric.
I do not know exactly what the pay per km (pay per mile) system will look like,
maybe sensors in the car with remote readout I'd think...
Also premiums for electric cars were halved, and now those will have to pay per km on top of that.
Taxes flow in,
Clever lot those politicians.
Climate? What climate? They have seen the light!
Nobody will buy electric now

They did the same number when I was driving my LPG car...
tax it so it is at least as expensive as petrol..

Maybe the tax money will be used (some of it anyways) for roads and to fight the warming that is not really human made...

Use tax...
<https://fox13now.com/2019/06/19/utah-will-charge-some-vehicles-for-every-mile-driven-on-the-roads/>

Cheers

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:08:39 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor
Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in <qfaj9n$qo6$3@dont-email.me>:

Gentlemen,

You may recall a while ago I complained about the fact that I can no
longer cross the road without looking because of these stupid electric
cars. Well, it's GOOD NEWS! Governments around the world are adopting my
solution of forcing the cars to make an artificial noise so people like
me can once again cross the road safely without bothering to look first.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/

Noise, how much noise?
Could be a problem in cities.
beep beep beep all the time in front of your house 24/7?

Here some other interesting thing is happening,
there were plans to have a charge per km (charge per mile for those who do not know what a km is) system for cars,
but those plans got binned again and again.
Now somebody realized electric cars use cheap electricity,
and you cannot you tax everybody's electricity, like they tax petrol and diesel fuel here,,,
so the solution, the old plan:
A pay per km system for ALL cars, including electric.
I do not know exactly what the pay per km (pay per mile) system will look like,
maybe sensors in the car with remote readout I'd think...
Also premiums for electric cars were halved, and now those will have to pay per km on top of that.
Taxes flow in,
Clever lot those politicians.
Climate? What climate? They have seen the light!
Nobody will buy electric now

They did the same number when I was driving my LPG car...
tax it so it is at least as expensive as petrol..

Maybe the tax money will be used (some of it anyways) for roads and to fight the warming that is not really human made...

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 08:57:21 -0700, Winfield Hill wrote:

Not sure how that's going to go down, but let me again point out that
modern non-EV cars, with engine idling while slowing for an
intersection, are as quiet as EV cars. In both cases you're relying on
the car's tire noise, etc., which for an EV with its extra-firm
higher-mileage tires, may actually be more noisy.

I have unusually sensitive hearing for my age, your Majesty. The law as
implemented in the UK means *all* non-ICE only cars will have to emit
extra noise for the benefit of people like me who view crossing the road
without looking as a fundamental human right. I thought you of all people
would support that.

Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never cross a
road without looking?

Mummy told me dad died in the war so I could cross the road without fear
of being run over, so I really owe this small victory to my dad. And of
course, anyone else who ever got run over due to their own carelessness.



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[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:57:04 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> A pay per km system for ALL cars, including electric.

Jan, if you and I ruled Europe, there would have been no need for
Brexit. ;-)




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[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 11:57:42 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote...

You may recall a while ago I complained about the fact that I can no
longer cross the road without looking because of these stupid electric
cars. Well, it's GOOD NEWS! Governments around the world are adopting my
solution of forcing the cars to make an artificial noise so people like
me can once again cross the road safely without bothering to look first..

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/

Not sure how that's going to go down, but let me again point
out that modern non-EV cars, with engine idling while slowing
for an intersection, are as quiet as EV cars. In both cases
you're relying on the car's tire noise, etc., which for an
EV with its extra-firm higher-mileage tires, may actually
be more noisy.

Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never
cross a road without looking?

The document is a lot to read, but it seems like they are requiring the HV and EVs to only make as much noise as an ICE vehicle. The authors did testing of ICE cars with their engines on and off at various speeds to determine the point where the ICE is not more than 3 dB louder than an HV/EV, by making the assumption that an ICE with the engine off is the same as an EV.

I don't see a problem with this. In essence the noise is intended to mimic an ICE driving at a steady speed of up to 18 MPH, not sure what sound pressure level they are imposing.

The agency seems to want to mimic the familiar sounds of an ICE auto. I'm thinking HV/EV makers will want to gain as much advantage from this as possible by making the noise as pleasing as possible. It will be interesting how the auto makers actually comply with this rule.

Since this will be imposed on the auto maker and not the user, they will need to outlaw the disabling of the device. Who/how will that be enforced?

The upper limit for all the ICE cars tested was less than 70 dBA. What will it take to get an upper limit imposed on vehicles? I know outdoor places that are nearly unbearable because of noise from loud vehicles.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 8:13:24 PM UTC+2, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:57:04 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

A pay per km system for ALL cars, including electric.

Jan, if you and I ruled Europe, there would have been no need for
Brexit. ;-)

No Europe left to Brexit from.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 6:46:33 PM UTC+2, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 08:57:21 -0700, Winfield Hill wrote:

Not sure how that's going to go down, but let me again point out that
modern non-EV cars, with engine idling while slowing for an
intersection, are as quiet as EV cars. In both cases you're relying on
the car's tire noise, etc., which for an EV with its extra-firm
higher-mileage tires, may actually be more noisy.

I have unusually sensitive hearing for my age, your Majesty.

But no intellectual processing capacity to make sense of the signals to which you claim to be extraordinarily sensitive.

> The law as implemented in the UK means *all* non-ICE only cars will have to emit extra noise for the benefit of people like me who view crossing the road without looking as a fundamental human right. I thought you of all people would support that.

Cursitor Doom thinks that he is human!

Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never cross a
road without looking?

Mummy told me dad died in the war so I could cross the road without fear
of being run over, so I really owe this small victory to my dad. And of
course, anyone else who ever got run over due to their own carelessness.

Your mother seems to have been as demented as you are.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:52:48 PM UTC+2, TTman wrote:

On 30/06/2019 16:08, Cursitor Doom wrote:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/its-the-law-electric-cars-must-make-
noise-after-september-2019/
Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...

What makes you think that Cursitor Doom waits before crossing the road?

He's an idiot, and thinks that he can rely on the fact that car drivers don't want blood and guts all over their shiny vehicles.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never
cross a road without looking?

** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

EV drivers ARE the problem too, they have NOT adjusted their driving habits to take account of the fact pedestrians cannot hear them - so they still expect them to jump out of the way as they approach from behind.

A recent example that I experienced involved a new, popular Toyota sedan that a local taxi company has bought a heap of.

One was parked in a driveway with its rear adjacent to the footpath. As I walking right behind it, the car too of at me - completely silently - no engine start up or other noise to warn me.

I glared at the smug turd driving who had failed to use his mirrors or his neck
to see if the footpath was clear and then I saw small badge on the back with the word "hybrid".



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

TTman wrote:

Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...

** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


...... Phil

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

> and you cannot you tax everybody's electricity

Namely, why? They can and will tax everything they want, rest assured.
In the case of shortage of money they become extremely creative.
Requiring a government-approved charging plug and heavy fines for the
disobedient is one option. But not yet, it is the allurement time, you
should not scare your prey...

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:14:58 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote:


Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never
cross a road without looking?


** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

EV drivers ARE the problem too, they have NOT adjusted their driving habits to take account of the fact pedestrians cannot hear them - so they still expect them to jump out of the way as they approach from behind.

A recent example that I experienced involved a new, popular Toyota sedan that a local taxi company has bought a heap of.

One was parked in a driveway with its rear adjacent to the footpath. As I walking right behind it, the car too of at me - completely silently - no engine start up or other noise to warn me.

I glared at the smug turd driving who had failed to use his mirrors or his neck
to see if the footpath was clear and then I saw small badge on the back with the word "hybrid".

The same problem exists with ICE vehicles. It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.

If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case. That's not so much really. I wonder if people were used to something even more noisy, would we be requiring ICE vehicles to make more noise making them safer to pedestrians? Why is the noise level of the ICE magical that it is the standard we need to go by?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:14:58 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:


Also, didn't your mom teach you that you should never, never
cross a road without looking?


** That is really dumb - even for the massively autistic Win.

People DO look before crossing, but EVs and hybrids can sneak up behind you, out of sight and give you a hell of a fright.

EV drivers ARE the problem too, they have NOT adjusted their driving habits to take account of the fact pedestrians cannot hear them - so they still expect them to jump out of the way as they approach from behind.

A recent example that I experienced involved a new, popular Toyota sedan that a local taxi company has bought a heap of.

One was parked in a driveway with its rear adjacent to the footpath. As I walking right behind it, the car too of at me - completely silently - no engine start up or other noise to warn me.

I glared at the smug turd driving who had failed to use his mirrors or his neck
to see if the footpath was clear and then I saw small badge on the back with the word "hybrid".

The same problem exists with ICE vehicles.

** What bullshit - ICE vehicles cannot start up or move off silently.

Pedestrians have been relying on that fact for over a hundred years.

It has been many times I come up behind people in a parking lot and they are startled to see me behind them moving at the same pace.

** Fraid that make no sense at all, normal for a colossal idiot like you.

If you look at the report you will find the difference between the two types of vehicles is about 7 dB at 10 k/h, the worst case.

** Bullshit - the typical difference is HUGE, probably over 40dB.

From inaudible to very audible.

You simply did not read my post, the taxi appeared to be unoccupied and parked, then it moved off at me silently.

The day you write a sensible post will also be a cold day in hell.



...... Phil

 

[bitrex]

On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.


** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

** Sounds like an excellent idea.


.... Phil

Yeah about a quarter of the time the American walking in the road turns
around and shouts "'ey FUCK you shit head faggot cock-smoker I'm walkin'
heah" but at least you know they saw you.

 

[Phil Allison]

bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

** How fucking useless.

The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

** Sounds like an excellent idea.


..... Phil

 

[bitrex]

On 6/30/19 4:59 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

TTman wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil

I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.

The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/30/19 6:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

bitrex wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:


Not a lot of use at<18.6 mph... most towns in the uk are 30mph limit so
you won't here that coming as you wait to cross the road...


** Normally you easily would, tyre and air noise are audible if the local ambient does not drown them out.

EVs and hybrids are menace cos they make so little noise at low speeds. The authorities have been very slow to act but the problem is bloody obvious.

Folk here are making one of the dumbest mistakes when thinking about the issue - it is not that the hazard in unavoidable it is the FACT that it is NEW.


..... Phil


I have one of the late model Volts with the noise-maker, people often
don't hear it at all even if I'm creeping up 10 feet behind them.


** How fucking useless.


The early model had a little button on the turn-signal-stick to emit a
polite "boop boop beep" noise to alert pedestrians to your presence, I
liked that better.

** Sounds like an excellent idea.


.... Phil

It's a pretty well-engineered car overall that still hit a modest
budget. Repair costs so far after 48k miles are $4 for set of
replacement tail light bulbs at Wal-Mart.

The charge port door is a simple spring-loaded mechanism on the front
left quarter panel. It's never once failed to open or iced-up even in
-15 F temperatures.

The Tesla 3's charge port door is hidden under the rear left tail light.
One of the more impact-vulnerable parts of the car. It gets the coldest
there in winter as the air blasts over it, it ices up. Locking mechanism
fails to work for some drivers. It's mysterious to me as to why Tesla
put it in that position or why it needs to lock.