EV Battery Swap To Replace Charging...

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes.. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one.. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.

Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 20 May 2023 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 1:32:47?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:00:29?PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30?PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38?PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59?AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.
Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electrification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

Hey Bozo, you idiot, you MADE A MISTAKE! Can your sorry ass find it (I doubt it!)?
You think I did, but you lack the confidence to identify it. My guess is that it\'s you who got it wrong - you are an idiot, though too much of an idiot to recognise the fact. I did find a typo, which I\'ve corrected, and you are silly enough to get excited about them.

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

It is VERY elementary, Bozo, and I AM NOT surprised you can\'t figure it out.

Please exercize some personal discipline and stop squawking back at
the old hen. It\'s what he likes and drives actual electronics
designers away from the group.

Do what he can\'t: design electronics.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so.. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with..

I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far..

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost.. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.

You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.

I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far..
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.

Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.

> I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.

Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.

No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.

I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.

LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.
No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.

Oh, come on. Someone will be paying for the batteries swapped out and slow charged. So, it\'s 1.X batteries per EV, with X being 5 to 9.

I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.
LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.

Not yet. I am not interested in driving Uber. When i am ready, i might get some Leaves and hire someone to drive them. I can get them for $3000, add 10KWhr to 15KWhr for around $2000. They will have 50 to 60 miles range, good enough for city Uber.

I am still working on the batteries, right now i have:

#1 50% of 24KWhr
#2 40% of 10KWhr
#3 80% of 3KWhr

I plan to run them down to 20%, rather than storing them in landfill.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:35:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for..
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.
No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.
Oh, come on. Someone will be paying for the batteries swapped out and slow charged. So, it\'s 1.X batteries per EV, with X being 5 to 9.
I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.
LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.
Not yet. I am not interested in driving Uber. When i am ready, i might get some Leaves and hire someone to drive them. I can get them for $3000, add 10KWhr to 15KWhr for around $2000. They will have 50 to 60 miles range, good enough for city Uber.

I am still working on the batteries, right now i have:

#1 50% of 24KWhr
#2 40% of 10KWhr
#3 80% of 3KWhr

I plan to run them down to 20%, rather than storing them in landfill.

Ed, I realized long ago, that you had little common sense about such matters. I\'ve literally never met anyone who comes up with such hairbrained ideas, and then acts on them.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:35:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough.. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.
No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.
Oh, come on. Someone will be paying for the batteries swapped out and slow charged. So, it\'s 1.X batteries per EV, with X being 5 to 9.
I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves..
LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.
Not yet. I am not interested in driving Uber. When i am ready, i might get some Leaves and hire someone to drive them. I can get them for $3000, add 10KWhr to 15KWhr for around $2000. They will have 50 to 60 miles range, good enough for city Uber.

I am still working on the batteries, right now i have:

#1 50% of 24KWhr
#2 40% of 10KWhr
#3 80% of 3KWhr

I plan to run them down to 20%, rather than storing them in landfill.
Ed, I realized long ago, that you had little common sense about such matters. I\'ve literally never met anyone who comes up with such hairbrained ideas, and then acts on them.

Why not? I can get 4 to 6 Leaves for the price of a Tesla. Better use of the batteries and less carbon foot-print. Everybody\'s happy.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 11:30:16 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:47:11 AM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 08:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Don\'t those batteries still need to be recharged? Or will they be
trucked to somewhere near a power plant to recharge?
From Fred\'s quote:
\"Changing out (and charging) a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13. \"
That\'s around 40 cents per KWhr. Ain\'t cheap.
How many \"shoebox-sized battery modules\" will, say, an SUV need?
Around one box per mile.

That\'s rather pessimistic.

18650 Li-ion cells have a volumetric energy density of about 500Wh/litre. (300-700)

A shoebox is in the region of 10-15 liters.

A Tesla Model X is rated at 330Wh/mile.

Put all this together and a shoebox worth of batteries should be able to propel a Model X about 15-20 miles.

kw

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:50:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:35:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.
No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.
Oh, come on. Someone will be paying for the batteries swapped out and slow charged. So, it\'s 1.X batteries per EV, with X being 5 to 9.
I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs..
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.
LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.
Not yet. I am not interested in driving Uber. When i am ready, i might get some Leaves and hire someone to drive them. I can get them for $3000, add 10KWhr to 15KWhr for around $2000. They will have 50 to 60 miles range, good enough for city Uber.

I am still working on the batteries, right now i have:

#1 50% of 24KWhr
#2 40% of 10KWhr
#3 80% of 3KWhr

I plan to run them down to 20%, rather than storing them in landfill.
Ed, I realized long ago, that you had little common sense about such matters. I\'ve literally never met anyone who comes up with such hairbrained ideas, and then acts on them.
Why not? I can get 4 to 6 Leaves for the price of a Tesla. Better use of the batteries and less carbon foot-print. Everybody\'s happy.

You can do anything you want. Other people just want to get places without all the bother. We\'ve had this discussion before. For you, it\'s a blind spot. To me, having two cars to try to make them work as one car is just extra hassle. Only you see two half cars as a solution to anything other than being cheap.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:54:07 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 11:30:16 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:47:11 AM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 08:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Don\'t those batteries still need to be recharged? Or will they be
trucked to somewhere near a power plant to recharge?
From Fred\'s quote:
\"Changing out (and charging) a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13. \"
That\'s around 40 cents per KWhr. Ain\'t cheap.
How many \"shoebox-sized battery modules\" will, say, an SUV need?
Around one box per mile.

That\'s rather pessimistic.

18650 Li-ion cells have a volumetric energy density of about 500Wh/litre. (300-700)

A shoebox is in the region of 10-15 liters.

A Tesla Model X is rated at 330Wh/mile.

Put all this together and a shoebox worth of batteries should be able to propel a Model X about 15-20 miles.

kw

Yes, of course, i was fixated to the lead acid calculation from another thread.

Seriously, including wires, spacers and other stuffs, probably 1 to 2 KWhr per box, or 3 to 6 miles per box. to be realistic.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:57:28 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:50:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:35:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.
No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.
Oh, come on. Someone will be paying for the batteries swapped out and slow charged. So, it\'s 1.X batteries per EV, with X being 5 to 9.
I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.
LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.
Not yet. I am not interested in driving Uber. When i am ready, i might get some Leaves and hire someone to drive them. I can get them for $3000, add 10KWhr to 15KWhr for around $2000. They will have 50 to 60 miles range, good enough for city Uber.

I am still working on the batteries, right now i have:

#1 50% of 24KWhr
#2 40% of 10KWhr
#3 80% of 3KWhr

I plan to run them down to 20%, rather than storing them in landfill.
Ed, I realized long ago, that you had little common sense about such matters. I\'ve literally never met anyone who comes up with such hairbrained ideas, and then acts on them.
Why not? I can get 4 to 6 Leaves for the price of a Tesla. Better use of the batteries and less carbon foot-print. Everybody\'s happy.
You can do anything you want. Other people just want to get places without all the bother. We\'ve had this discussion before. For you, it\'s a blind spot. To me, having two cars to try to make them work as one car is just extra hassle. Only you see two half cars as a solution to anything other than being cheap.

I am not saying it\'s a general solution, but for Uber/Lyft usages. Swapping batteries is not much better than swapping cars.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:58:53 PM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:54:07 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 11:30:16 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:47:11 AM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 08:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Don\'t those batteries still need to be recharged? Or will they be
trucked to somewhere near a power plant to recharge?
From Fred\'s quote:
\"Changing out (and charging) a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13. \"
That\'s around 40 cents per KWhr. Ain\'t cheap.
How many \"shoebox-sized battery modules\" will, say, an SUV need?
Around one box per mile.

That\'s rather pessimistic.

18650 Li-ion cells have a volumetric energy density of about 500Wh/litre. (300-700)

A shoebox is in the region of 10-15 liters.

A Tesla Model X is rated at 330Wh/mile.

Put all this together and a shoebox worth of batteries should be able to propel a Model X about 15-20 miles.

kw
Yes, of course, i was fixated to the lead acid calculation from another thread.

Seriously, including wires, spacers and other stuffs, probably 1 to 2 KWhr per box, or 3 to 6 miles per box. to be realistic.

In fact, I have a 96S2P 1.8KWhr battery in 5\"x7\"x8\" weighting 20 pounds. Probably 1.5x shoebox size.

This can easily be swapped in/out of the car in under a minute.

But the problem with 1P or 2P is that it\'s very easy to have unbalanced cells. The 9P battery seems to be better balanced.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 9:54:07 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 11:30:16 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:47:11 AM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 08:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Don\'t those batteries still need to be recharged? Or will they be
trucked to somewhere near a power plant to recharge?
From Fred\'s quote:
\"Changing out (and charging) a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13. \"
That\'s around 40 cents per KWhr. Ain\'t cheap.
How many \"shoebox-sized battery modules\" will, say, an SUV need?
Around one box per mile.

That\'s rather pessimistic.

18650 Li-ion cells have a volumetric energy density of about 500Wh/litre. (300-700)

A shoebox is in the region of 10-15 liters.

A Tesla Model X is rated at 330Wh/mile.

Put all this together and a shoebox worth of batteries should be able to propel a Model X about 15-20 miles.

Not in a model X. Your 500 Wh/L is a density for the naked battery. The battery requires support in the way of cooling, mounting and electronic support. I expect that is close to a 2:1 factor. I don\'t have measurements on their modules, but here are some images.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392570904605

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 12:01:40 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:57:28 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:50:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:35:06 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:38:03 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:24:52 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:18:00 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.
The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.
Since, you live in a Bizarro world of BEVs, I expect you don\'t understand the real world issues of driving BEVs.

Real drivers, even Uber drivers, will want a break every four hours or so. People need to use the bathroom, grab a bite to eat and just get out of the car and relax. A proper BEV will run for four hours in Uber mode (not all 70 mph highways) just fine. Charging for 20 to 30 minutes will give enough range for another four hours. See the pattern?

There is absolutely no reason to buy two cars just to keep one charging all the time. That\'s the sort of illogic that only Ed Lee could come up with.
I agree with you that one EV with fast charging would be enough. But if they argue for the need of battery swapping, having 2 EVs would just be as good. Uber/Lyft would probably wear out the cars anyway. My leaf previous owner was probably heavy duty driver. It has 4000 L1/L2 and 800 DCFC so far.
You completely ignore the cost of two vehicles. It absolutely does not fit the need vs. cost issue.
Two batteries (or more for swapping) won\'t be cheap either. The main cost of driving EV is wearing down the batteries.
No one said it would be cheap. But it is cheap compared to buying two cars! Besides, with battery swapping, you don\'t need two batteries. You need 1 battery and a swapping service who owns some number of batteries, but much less than 1 for each customer.
Oh, come on. Someone will be paying for the batteries swapped out and slow charged. So, it\'s 1.X batteries per EV, with X being 5 to 9.
I can\'t believe the guy with half an EV is recommending two EVs.
Two half-EVs make a complete one, and still cost less. An early Leaf can be brought for $3000 to $4000. I know people driving Uber with Leaves.
LOL, so you bought another crap car? If they both have crap batteries, that\'s still just two half cars, not a whole car.
Not yet. I am not interested in driving Uber. When i am ready, i might get some Leaves and hire someone to drive them. I can get them for $3000, add 10KWhr to 15KWhr for around $2000. They will have 50 to 60 miles range, good enough for city Uber.

I am still working on the batteries, right now i have:

#1 50% of 24KWhr
#2 40% of 10KWhr
#3 80% of 3KWhr

I plan to run them down to 20%, rather than storing them in landfill.
Ed, I realized long ago, that you had little common sense about such matters. I\'ve literally never met anyone who comes up with such hairbrained ideas, and then acts on them.
Why not? I can get 4 to 6 Leaves for the price of a Tesla. Better use of the batteries and less carbon foot-print. Everybody\'s happy.
You can do anything you want. Other people just want to get places without all the bother. We\'ve had this discussion before. For you, it\'s a blind spot. To me, having two cars to try to make them work as one car is just extra hassle. Only you see two half cars as a solution to anything other than being cheap.
I am not saying it\'s a general solution, but for Uber/Lyft usages. Swapping batteries is not much better than swapping cars.

I\'m not going to keep arguing with you. Only you can not understand that sharing a spare battery is much, much cheaper than having a second car.

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 5:50:44 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 20 May 2023 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 1:32:47?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:00:29?PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30?PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38?PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59?AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:

Please exercise some personal discipline and stop squawking back at the old hen. It\'s what he likes and drives actual electronics designers away from the group.

Do what he can\'t: design electronics.

http://sophia-elektronica.com/BillsBaxandall.html

This is what electronic design looks like. It\'s closely related to a circuit I put together around 1986 for the Metals Research GaAs single crystal puller when a couple of parts that had had been used in the crystal weighing circuit went obsolete. The LVDT doing the weighing needed an excitation waveform and this is a neater version to the circuit I designed to do the job.

John Larkin doesn\'t seem to do this kind of work.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Saturday, 20 May 2023 at 21:25:17 UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 9:54:07 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 11:30:16 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:47:11 AM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 08:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Don\'t those batteries still need to be recharged? Or will they be
trucked to somewhere near a power plant to recharge?
From Fred\'s quote:
\"Changing out (and charging) a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13. \"
That\'s around 40 cents per KWhr. Ain\'t cheap.
How many \"shoebox-sized battery modules\" will, say, an SUV need?
Around one box per mile.

That\'s rather pessimistic.

18650 Li-ion cells have a volumetric energy density of about 500Wh/litre. (300-700)

A shoebox is in the region of 10-15 liters.

A Tesla Model X is rated at 330Wh/mile.

Put all this together and a shoebox worth of batteries should be able to propel a Model X about 15-20 miles.
Not in a model X. Your 500 Wh/L is a density for the naked battery. The battery requires support in the way of cooling, mounting and electronic support. I expect that is close to a 2:1 factor. I don\'t have measurements on their modules, but here are some images.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392570904605

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

The model S/X battery module that contains all the wiring and cooling is 26..1 x 11.1 x 3.1 inches. This is equivalent to 15.8 liters. It in rated at 5..3kWh energy storage. (16 miles of range)

There is some variation in shoebox size but a common men\'s shoebox size is 14×10×5 inches, or 11.5 liters.

At 330Wh/mile this gives a range of 11.66 miles.

The Model S/X battery module was designed over ten years ago. Modern cells would increase that capacity significantly.

kw

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Saturday, 20 May 2023 at 21:17:21 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
....

Seriously, including wires, spacers and other stuffs, probably 1 to 2 KWhr per box, or 3 to 6 miles per box. to be realistic.
In fact, I have a 96S2P 1.8KWhr battery in 5\"x7\"x8\" weighting 20 pounds. Probably 1.5x shoebox size.

That is only about half the size of a shoebox - a common size is 14 x 10 x 5.

kw

..

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 12:18:06 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Saturday, 20 May 2023 at 21:25:17 UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 9:54:07 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns..com wrote:
On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 11:30:16 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:47:11 AM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 08:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Don\'t those batteries still need to be recharged? Or will they be
trucked to somewhere near a power plant to recharge?
From Fred\'s quote:
\"Changing out (and charging) a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13. \"
That\'s around 40 cents per KWhr. Ain\'t cheap.
How many \"shoebox-sized battery modules\" will, say, an SUV need?
Around one box per mile.

That\'s rather pessimistic.

18650 Li-ion cells have a volumetric energy density of about 500Wh/litre. (300-700)

A shoebox is in the region of 10-15 liters.

A Tesla Model X is rated at 330Wh/mile.

Put all this together and a shoebox worth of batteries should be able to propel a Model X about 15-20 miles.
Not in a model X. Your 500 Wh/L is a density for the naked battery. The battery requires support in the way of cooling, mounting and electronic support. I expect that is close to a 2:1 factor. I don\'t have measurements on their modules, but here are some images.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392570904605

--

Rick C.

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The model S/X battery module that contains all the wiring and cooling is 26.1 x 11.1 x 3.1 inches. This is equivalent to 15.8 liters. It in rated at 5.3kWh energy storage. (16 miles of range)

There is some variation in shoebox size but a common men\'s shoebox size is 14×10×5 inches, or 11.5 liters.

At 330Wh/mile this gives a range of 11.66 miles.

The Model S/X battery module was designed over ten years ago. Modern cells would increase that capacity significantly.

You used the module capacity of the 85 kWh battery pack, 5.3 kWh. The P100D has a more powerful module. Also, to be realistic, the volume should include the entire cooling system. So add in for the hoses, fan and radiator and I think, in the model X, a heater.

The shoe box metric is pretty pointless. Better we use the standard bald eagle/jelly doughnut... the American version, not the Whitworth.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209