EV Battery Swap To Replace Charging...

[Ricky]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:37:15 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:31:25 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 19. maj 2023 kl. 17.18.03 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes.. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
and several companies have tried battery swap schemes and went bankrupt
The article cited Uber and Lyft customers. That would never work for individual owners/drivers. I don\'t want to swap my new battery with your 5 years old one.

LOL! What new battery? Your BEV problems and struggles all center around the nearly depleted battery in your Leaf!

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 12:50:28 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:57:34 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 5/19/2023 11:31 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 19. maj 2023 kl. 17.18.03 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes.. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.

and several companies have tried battery swap schemes and went bankrupt
It\'s like trying to swap fuel tanks on an airliner. To make the overall
solution lightweight enough to get the ranges and performance that they
do with current battery tech, the battery layout is integrated into the
body of the car.

Any EV worth a crap has active cooling so it\'s not just electrical
connections there are coolant connections also.

The Chevy Volt was one of the last \"EVs\" (plug-in hybrid) where a
battery swap was a relatively straightforward operation that at least in
theory an individual could do in their own garage without, ripping the
whole car apart, the T-shaped down-the-centerline pack topology it
inherited from the EV-1 made that feasible. But it\'s an old design
nobody builds them like that anymore.
From Bloomberg Hyperdrive:

So far, the company [ Ample ] has signed partnerships with five vehicle manufacturers and designed adapter plates for 20 EV models. Parked in Ample’s warehouse during its demo were a Fiat 500 and a Citroen van made by Stellantis, as well as the Niro, a Nissan Leaf, Fisker’s Ocean SUV and an urban mini-car made by German manufacturer e.Go.

E.Go Chairman Ali Vezvaei says his company designed its e.wave X EV with swappable batteries. “We genuinely believe that this is a great solution to address a lot of infrastructure issues,” he says. “Sooner or later you will see a transformation in fuel stations, like where you go to change a tire there will be a battery change station.

Ample’s fleet customers can buy EVs with or without batteries — the most expensive component of the vehicle — and subscribe to the company’s swapping service for a fee that it declined to disclose. Customers also pay an “energy fee” each time they swap. Changing out a 32-kilowatt-hour battery pack, for instance, costs about $13.

Swapping out a 32 kWh battery pack would need to be done every 3 days for the average distance driven. Yeah, that\'s about 120 miles which is 3 days of 40 miles. Who wants all that bother when you can just plug in when you aren\'t driving the car?

I know, you are going to talk about *all* the people who don\'t have a driveway or whatever. Do you really think this is an insurmountable problem? There was a time when there was *no* electricity. Does anyone think it\'s an insurmountable task to add chargers along residential streets or in public parking lots? Cars are parked all day at work, all night at home and for hours at a time when shopping. All of those times are perfect opportunities to charge.

I often say, the only people who complain about how hard it is to charge a BEV, are people who don\'t have one. Mine is charging as I type this.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 2:02:09 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 5/19/2023 12:03 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:57:34 AM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
On 5/19/2023 11:31 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 19. maj 2023 kl. 17.18.03 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes.. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.

and several companies have tried battery swap schemes and went bankrupt
It\'s like trying to swap fuel tanks on an airliner. To make the overall
solution lightweight enough to get the ranges and performance that they
do with current battery tech, the battery layout is integrated into the
body of the car.

Any EV worth a crap has active cooling so it\'s not just electrical
connections there are coolant connections also.

The Chevy Volt was one of the last \"EVs\" (plug-in hybrid) where a
battery swap was a relatively straightforward operation that at least in
theory an individual could do in their own garage without, ripping the
whole car apart, the T-shaped down-the-centerline pack topology it
inherited from the EV-1 made that feasible. But it\'s an old design
nobody builds them like that anymore.

The Leaf battery can easily be swapped. We can do it in our shop. However, finding good batteries to swap is a problem. It\'s better to just add expansion batteries. My expansion batteries can be removed and slow charged. They are also A/C cooled.
Yeah, maybe in some fleet situations where the difference between a 5
minute swap and a 30 minute charge works out to be substantial financial
win.

There are few uses where a BEV limits an application more than the human driving it does. Semi-trucks is a perfect example. Truckers think BEVs are stupid, because you can only drive around 500 miles before recharging. But, in the US, the driver is required to stop within the first 8 hours for a 30 minute break. That is sufficient time to put 300 more miles on the truck for a total of 800 miles, or 11 hours of driving, again, the limit of what the driver can do without a 10 hour break. So BEVs are adequate for long haul trucking.

The EV industry doesn\'t give a shit about people who \"don\'t have
convenient access to charging stations\", that is to say people who don\'t
own their own home.

Apartments and condos often provide parking, where chargers can be installed. That brings the \"unchargeable\" count down to perhaps 10 to 20 percent. These people will require chargers where they park. They only need to be level 2, so no big deal.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 3:34:41 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 3:16:09 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 12:11:22 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:38:31 AM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 9:50:28 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:57:34 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 5/19/2023 11:31 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 19. maj 2023 kl. 17.18.03 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.

and several companies have tried battery swap schemes and went bankrupt
It\'s like trying to swap fuel tanks on an airliner. To make the overall
solution lightweight enough to get the ranges and performance that they
do with current battery tech, the battery layout is integrated into the
body of the car.

Any EV worth a crap has active cooling so it\'s not just electrical
connections there are coolant connections also.

The Chevy Volt was one of the last \"EVs\" (plug-in hybrid) where a
battery swap was a relatively straightforward operation that at least in
theory an individual could do in their own garage without, ripping the
whole car apart, the T-shaped down-the-centerline pack topology it
inherited from the EV-1 made that feasible. But it\'s an old design
nobody builds them like that anymore.
From Bloomberg Hyperdrive:

So far, the company [ Ample ] has signed partnerships with five vehicle manufacturers and designed adapter plates for 20 EV models. Parked in Ample’s warehouse during its demo were a Fiat 500 and a Citroen van made by Stellantis, as well as the Niro, a Nissan Leaf, Fisker’s Ocean SUV and an urban mini-car made by German manufacturer e.Go.
If they offer a new 32KWhr battery for the Leaf at the right price, I might swap it once.
I would do it now for $13.
I think their plan for buying a batteryless EV and subscribing to their plan could be a pretty good bargain. We can\'t run any numbers because they haven\'t made the details public.
So, it\'s still vapor batteries. I don\'t know how they deal with most EV batteries that are tagged with internal IDs. Are they going to reprogram the ECU or BMS ID every time?
The have Nissan onboard with the Leaf, so the details have been worked out.

That\'s funny. They are dumping the Leaf soon, after they introduce a newer product.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 5/19/2023 11:47 PM, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:00:59 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

Battery swapping has a few problems. One is, that it\'s like the gas station model of refueling, you have to drive to the swap center. But unlike gasoline or diesel, where you can count the varieties on one hand, there are dozens of different battery types, sizes and form factors. It would be a difficult task to manage so many different varieties. One problem swap centers don\'t have, is worrying about high charge currents. It doesn\'t matter if you charge each battery fast, separately, or slow and all in parallel. It takes the same amount of power.

It is unlikely that people will provide an even supply of discharged batteries. Just as gas stations have peak use times, so will swap centers. So equipment and batteries will sit around much of the day, just so there can be enough batteries and equipment to install them at the peak times. Batteries cost major bucks. So, the investment to have freshly charged batteries on hand at all times will be huge.

Then there\'s the issue of battery ownership. You buy a new BEV and the first time you swap it out, you get some piece of crap with only 75% of its original capacity left.

How many people are going to sign up for a deal like that!?!

On occasions when I talk to people about BEVs who really don\'t know much
about the tech, and don\'t have strong opinions about it either way up (a
larger fraction of the population than you might figure) they ask \"Can
you charge that at home?\" and tend to be like \"Wooow, so I could just
charge at home most of the time, and not have to go to a station or
anything?\"

Not having to go to a fueling station of whatever type is a selling
point of the tech, it\'s IMO significantly less attractive in the gas
station model.

 

[bitrex]

On 5/20/2023 12:24 AM, bitrex wrote:

On occasions when I talk to people about BEVs who really don\'t know much
about the tech, and don\'t have strong opinions about it either way up (a
larger fraction of the population than you might figure) they ask \"Can
you charge that at home?\" and tend to be like \"Wooow, so I could just
charge at home most of the time, and not have to go to a station or
anything?\"

Not having to go to a fueling station of whatever type is a selling
point of the tech, it\'s IMO significantly less attractive in the gas
station model.

And also less attractive to potential buyers, at least anecdotally

 

[Flyguy]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:

For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.

Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electricification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 5/20/2023 12:58 AM, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.

10-25% is a good ballpark, tank to wheel efficiency of ICE vehicles is bad

 

[Flyguy]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas.. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.
Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electricification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, you idiot, you MADE A MISTAKE! Can your sorry ass find it (I doubt it!)?

Bozo\'s Sewage Sweeper

 

[Don Y]

On 5/19/2023 9:27 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 5/20/2023 12:24 AM, bitrex wrote:

On occasions when I talk to people about BEVs who really don\'t know much
about the tech, and don\'t have strong opinions about it either way up (a
larger fraction of the population than you might figure) they ask \"Can you
charge that at home?\" and tend to be like \"Wooow, so I could just charge at
home most of the time, and not have to go to a station or anything?\"

Not having to go to a fueling station of whatever type is a selling point of
the tech, it\'s IMO significantly less attractive in the gas station model.

And also less attractive to potential buyers, at least anecdotally

I suspect the folks you\'re talking to haven\'t thought it through -- at
least in terms of actual numbers.

For an ICE:
- assume \"average\" driving patterns
- that suggests 25mpg for a current model vehicle
- assume an average tank size of 16G
- assume you never let the tank fall below half
(so you always have AT LEAST 200 miles of range)
- assume 15,000miles/year so 600G/yr or 75 fuel stops/yr
- fuel pumps (US) are limited to 10G/min; assume you
can only get *half* of that flow rate -- ~2min for fueling
- assume 1 minute to pay for your transaction
- assume the guy in front of me is going to take 2+1 for his transaction
- but, there are usually *two* pumps on each \"side\" so you only see
half of this WAIT delay (also assume you *don\'t* plan your fueling
stops for times when demand is lowest cuz you likely drive by a
couple of dozen fueling stations any time you leave your house
and fail to NOTICE when they are busy/idle)
- 75 * (2+1+1.5+H) = minutes per year (H=time to put hose to tank)

For BEV:
- assume you only charge when you have less than 200 miles range
(if you charge every day/night -- or, if you can\'t rely on
having frequent access to a charger, or, can\'t go 200 miles
reliably on a charge, then you incur that \'H\' more often, even
if it\'s only 10 seconds in and 10 seconds out)
- assume there is a charging station AVAILABLE for each vehicle in
your household (so NEVER any wait time) and there is no down-time
(or cost) associated with them

At that rate, you will save a whole 6 minutes per week. Almost
enough for you to order a cup of coffee!

[If you drive less than 15K/yr -- or, have a higher proportion of
city/distance driving, or use \"high flow\" fuel pumps, then the
figure falls accordingly. I stop for gas once every 2 weeks -- like
clockwork]

Yeah, I\'m going to make a $50K purchase decision based on the fact
that I can/can\'t order a cup of coffee in the time saved -- NOT!

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:00:29 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes.. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.
Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electrification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

Hey Bozo, you idiot, you MADE A MISTAKE! Can your sorry ass find it (I doubt it!)?

You think I did, but you lack the confidence to identify it. My guess is that it\'s you who got it wrong - you are an idiot, though too much of an idiot to recognise the fact. I did find a typo, which I\'ve corrected, and you are silly enough to get excited about them.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:38 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.

No one cares how much heat is in a gallon of gas. We can do this more simply. 250 million cars in the US, at 40 miles per day is 10 billion miles per day. Electric cars run around 4 miles per kWh giving 2.5 billion kWh or 2.5 TWh, Multiply by 365 days in a year and we have 912 TWh not 4 trillion kWh. So your numbers are 4 times too large.

The US electrical output is about 4 TWh, so the demand for charging cars would be about a quarter of the total. However, there is a very consistent lull in demand at night, which provides more than enough capacity to charge BEVs, while leveling the demand curve. This provides better utilization and amortization of the capital intensive facilities, lowering the average cost of electricity.

BEVs can also be charged very flexibly, rather than requiring charging every night. If the wind does not blow on a given night, many of the BEVs can wait until the following night. This is the load equivalent of a dispatchable generation. BEVs and the electrical grid in the US are a perfect match, a win, win!

You have had all this explained to you before. Please don\'t lie about this any longer.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Flyguy]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 1:32:47 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:00:29 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.
Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electrification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

Hey Bozo, you idiot, you MADE A MISTAKE! Can your sorry ass find it (I doubt it!)?
You think I did, but you lack the confidence to identify it. My guess is that it\'s you who got it wrong - you are an idiot, though too much of an idiot to recognise the fact. I did find a typo, which I\'ve corrected, and you are silly enough to get excited about them.

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

It is VERY elementary, Bozo, and I AM NOT surprised you can\'t figure it out..

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 19 May 2023 16:26:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 4:12:07?PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 5/19/2023 3:56 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 3:52:47?PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 5/19/2023 2:39 PM, John wrote:
We live in a house, not some development.

What with my workbench and the trash cans and some beer storage racks,
there\'s room for one car, and Mo uses that.

I seel lots of cars parked on the street with extension cords across
the sidewalk to charge them. One has to be careful to not trip on them
in the dark.
Yikes! How is winter handled? No driveways?

There is no summer or winter in SF. It\'s kind of boring.
Likely no driveways, either?

Some driveways without garage.

More common, garage without driveway.

>Some converted vacant spaces, when time was good. They should probably be converted back to garage.

About half the garages that I see around here are jammed with junk,
room for a bicycle or maybe two.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 19 May 2023 16:09:14 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 5/19/2023 11:09 AM, John wrote:
Not everyone who owns a home has a garage or a carport. I own a home
and park on the street.

Most homes, here, have 2 - 5 car garages. Yet, there is
almost always one or more cars sitting in the driveway,
on a pad alongside or even parked on the \"lawn\".

There are almost no lawns here, or in most dense cities.

I hated cutting grass. Lawns are a crazy concept.

I can gas up in 5 minutes in lots of convenient places.

\"Gas stations\" with attached \"convenience stores\" tend to
see longer waits as the driver has to remain with the car
while fueling; then, may run inside for some small purchase
(thankfully, most now allow \"fuel only\" transactions to be
unattended at an island kiosk).

Larger stations (e.g., Costco\'s 20 pumps) tend to have longer
queues -- but for fuel only.

So, 5-10 minutes, tops. Even for vehicles with oversized tanks.

[The notion of having to *sit* somewhere for 30 minutes
before setting off, again, on my travels is anathema to me!]

 

[Don Y]

On 5/19/2023 8:54 AM, Ed Lee wrote:

Dumb EV drivers are also attached to their batteries. I, dumb EV driver,
would never swap with another smaller SOH. I am OK with swapping expansion
batteries as long as they are rented, not owned.

Different business model; someone ELSE owns the battery and
maintains it ensuring you ALWAYS have a battery that is \"good for\"
a performance level of X before it is swapped out.

You buy propane for your grill in a tank that \"belonged\" to someone
else, last week... you don\'t care about the tank (as long as it
meets some safety regulations); what you care about is that it has
a certain amount of energy capacity (and no \"contaminants\")

People have been powering propane forklifts using \"tanks\"
that are swapped out regularly without griping that the
tank they turned in was \"prettier\" than the tank they were
given as a replacement.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 1:23:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 1:32:47 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:00:29 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.
Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electrification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

Hey Bozo, you idiot, you MADE A MISTAKE! Can your sorry ass find it (I doubt it!)?

You think I did, but you lack the confidence to identify it. My guess is that it\'s you who got it wrong - you are an idiot, though too much of an idiot to recognise the fact. I did find a typo, which I\'ve corrected, and you are silly enough to get excited about them.

It is VERY elementary, Bozo, and I AM NOT surprised you can\'t figure it out.

Really? But you are still not confident enough to reveal what it is. And still an idiot.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:53:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.
Battery costs more than half of the vehicle. Why not just swap the vehicles. Two EVs for every drivers.
Two vehicles for each driver is a bit excessive, especially in cost. Swapping vehicles is not something the general public will go for.

The main arguing point for swapping batteries is for heavy duty drivers like Uber/Lyft. But for them, it might be better to drive one and charge one. Independent owner/driver would not work with swapping anyway.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:16:45 PM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 1:23:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 1:32:47 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 5:00:29 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 10:57:30 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 2:58:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:00:59 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
For entities for whom time is money, like fleets, and others who just don\'t have convenient access to charging stations, the 5 minute whole battery pack swap is the answer. All the work is done by a robot in 5 minutes. The swap stations slow re-charge the swapped batteries so they don\'t require a major power grid renovation to come online. And the whole swap package comes in a shipping container so it sets up in under a day. Quite a few EV manufacturers are getting onboard making their battery packs compatible with this system.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/ample-2023-next-generation-battery-swap-station/

https://ample.com/

Too bad for the naysayers who ignorantly predicted zeta-dollar rebuild of the national grid to support EVs.

You need to do some simple math. A gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 KWH. The US consumes 369 million gallons of gas per day. The total electricity generation capacity of the US is 4.05 trillion KWH per year. Calculate what percentage of the total electrical capacity is required to replace gas. Note: it doesn\'t depend upon how fast or slow you recharge batteries.
Of course Sewage Sweeper hasn\'t bothered to do it. 33.7kWhr times 369x10^6 is 1.246 trillion kWhr, or about 30.5% of 4.05 trillion kWhr, which is a well known number.

From about 1950 to about 2000 US generating capacity increased at about 6% per year. It would have to resume that growth rate for about five years to cope with the complete electrification of gasoline-burning local local transportation.

It\'s not any kind of \"rebuild\" - just a bit more expansion. There will have to be increased capacity in some parts of the network to cope with the transition away from coal and gas fired generating stations to solar and wind farms, which provides even more excuses for climate change denial freaks to get excited.

They are gullible idiots, so they are easy to alarm.

Hey Bozo, you idiot, you MADE A MISTAKE! Can your sorry ass find it (I doubt it!)?

You think I did, but you lack the confidence to identify it. My guess is that it\'s you who got it wrong - you are an idiot, though too much of an idiot to recognise the fact. I did find a typo, which I\'ve corrected, and you are silly enough to get excited about them.

It is VERY elementary, Bozo, and I AM NOT surprised you can\'t figure it out.
Really? But you are still not confident enough to reveal what it is. And still an idiot.

I suppose this is a newsgroup equivalent of Fermet\'s last theorem. I wonder if Gnatbrain is going to write a paper on it?

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209