Electrify I-40, I-95 and I-5

[Bret Cahill]

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.


Bret Cahill

 

On Dec 11, 9:05 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

A better idea: electric vehicle battery-swap stations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html?em

 

[Maximust]

Bret Cahill wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.


Bret Cahill

Throw away the cars, tear up the highways, and install an electric railroad in
their place instead.

 

On Dec 11, 10:24 am, Maximust <maxi_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bret Cahill wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Throw away the cars, tear up the highways, and install an electric railroad in
their place instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
Hmm...

 

[Joel Koltner]

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:465afac9-dbb7-4194-af39-3203b14b364a@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

It may be more difficult, but it's definitely not more expensive. Although
upgrading an interstate is certainly cheaper than building a new one, a good
metric to keep in mind is that the cost new interstates often exceeds *ten
million dollars per mile*. Ouch!

Then again, gasoline taxes paid for 90% of the original interstate system
(with states picking up the remaining tabs), so I suppose you could just add
taxes to the electricity used specifically for electric vehicles.

I suspect overall the numbers don't look good for this. The real problem is
that, while the original interstate system was expected to generate $6-$15 in
new economic benefits for every $1 spend on it, it's very difficult to suggest
that just switching from gasoline to electric or hybrid vehicles will do
likewise... at least over, say, the course of a given or otherwise reasonably
foreseeable period of time.

---Joel

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill
<BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.


Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John

 

[Bret Cahill]

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

A better idea: electric vehicle battery-swap

Batteries are too expensive. CO2 can be reduced by several times more
by running directly off the grid.


Bret Cahill


stations.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html?em

 

On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John

Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

<grin>

Michael

 

[Michael Coburn]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:18:53 -0800, mrdarrett wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John


Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

grin

Michael

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

 

[Rob Dekker]

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:52986d0c-fe1c-4381-aa7a-4a74d19739e2@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

A better idea: electric vehicle battery-swap

Batteries are too expensive. CO2 can be reduced by several times more
by running directly off the grid.

I tend to agree with mrdarrett.
Battery swap stations are easier and cheaper than a (so far completely
hypothetical) electrified hieway system.

But for the next 10 years or so and maybe longer, simply using
electric-drive (series) hybrid and Plug-In hybrids probably makes the most
sense for everyone.
No modifications to infrastructure needed (other than fixing the potholes),
60 mpg easily achievable with small (5 kWh or so) battery. When batteries
become cheaper and lighter, plug-in hybrids are a very simple, logical
extention of that platform.
And plug-in hybrids take electricity at nightly (low) rates, whereas a
electrified highway system or battery-swap system have to pay daytime (high)
rates.

Rob

Bret Cahill


stations.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html?em

 

[Rob Dekker]

"Michael Coburn" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ght21j12r8c@news1.newsguy.com...

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:18:53 -0800, mrdarrett wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John


Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

grin

Michael

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Now to get this power to the vehicles, a electrified highway system sounds
like one of the most expensive solutions, especially since people that do
not enter the freeway on their dayly drive would be excluded from using this
absurtly expensive system, and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

Rob

 

[krw]

In article <ghtdr9$jkf$1@news.parasun.com>, rob@verific.com
says...>

"Michael Coburn" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ght21j12r8c@news1.newsguy.com...
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:18:53 -0800, mrdarrett wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John


Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

grin

Michael

A better question is where will you get 40 quads of electrical power?

You would not need 40 quads.
Currently the entire US transportation sector uses 5 quads per year in
effective (wheel drive) energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USEnFlow02-quads.gif

And you're going to use efficiency fairies to get that 5q of
mechanical energy from 5q of electrical energy?

5 quads per year is about 50% of our current electricity use.
That is still a lot, but it is within reason and could be achieved by a good
investment in electric power generation, especially if most of that power
would be needed at night (recharging vehicle batteries) when power usage is
currently very low.

Oh, we'd only have to DOUBLE generation capacity, even with your
efficiency fairies.

Now to get this power to the vehicles, a electrified highway system sounds
like one of the most expensive solutions, especially since people that do
not enter the freeway on their dayly drive would be excluded from using this
absurtly expensive system, and most energy would be used during peak hours.
So plug-in hybrids, charged at night, make a lot more sense...

Maybe more sense than efficiency fairies, but still no sense. A
greenie weenie plan, to be sure.

 

[krw]

In article <859fb596-f4d6-478b-aa6d-7a4b8ad4b979
@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, mrdarrett@gmail.com says...>

On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John


Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

Come on! Lady Bird is no longer with us. There is no reason they
have to be invisible.

grin

It would be funny if the greenie weenies weren't so serious about
such nonsense.

 

On Dec 12, 6:35 am, krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:

In article <859fb596-f4d6-478b-aa6d-7a4b8ad4b979
@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, mrdarr...@gmail.com says...



On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John

Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

Come on! Lady Bird is no longer with us. There is no reason they
have to be invisible.

grin

It would be funny if the greenie weenies weren't so serious about
such nonsense.

I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me). Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one. Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects. Apply the same logic to electric car batteries. Nice.

Michael

 

[krw]

In article <c8edb89d-fe62-401a-be02-
eea55336542b@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, mrdarrett@gmail.com
says...>

On Dec 12, 6:35 am, krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
In article <859fb596-f4d6-478b-aa6d-7a4b8ad4b979
@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, mrdarr...@gmail.com says...



On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:05:06 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill

BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

Excuse me, but how does the electricity get from the highway into the
car?

John

Invisible electricity-carrying unicorns, of course. Why do you ask?

Come on! Lady Bird is no longer with us. There is no reason they
have to be invisible.

grin

It would be funny if the greenie weenies weren't so serious about
such nonsense.


I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me). Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one. Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects. Apply the same logic to electric car batteries. Nice.

Bullshit. Think about it.

 

[Eeyore]

Bret Cahill wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

IDIOT !

 

[Eeyore]

Maximust wrote:

Bret Cahill wrote:

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Throw away the cars, tear up the highways, and install an electric railroad in
their place instead.

You're going to run trains every minute ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

I kind of like the idea behind the nytimes article I posted earlier
(which a co-worker had emailed to me). Similar to when you buy a
propane barbecue stove... just exchange the empty cylinder for a
refilled one. Fast, convenient, already professionally inspected for
defects. Apply the same logic to electric car batteries. Nice.

I had that idea over 30 years ago. Trouble is, the batteries have to be AWFULLY
BIG.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Bret Cahill wrote:

Batteries are too expensive. CO2 can be reduced by several times more
by running directly off the grid.

CO2 scaremongering isn't a problem. It's a religion.

Graham

 

[Bret Cahill]

When you are off these interstates you run your hybrid electric or EV
on gas or batteries respectively and when you are on these interstates
you run off the grid.

Conventional drive trains could be used along side the newer until it
is cheaper to upgrade.

Phasing in digital TV is much more difficult.

Bret Cahill

A better idea: electric vehicle battery-swap

Batteries are too expensive.  CO2 can be reduced by several times more
by running directly off the grid.

I tend to agree with mrdarrett.
Battery swap stations are easier and cheaper than a (so far completely
hypothetical) electrified hieway system.

Battery replacement cost is twice that of the energy that goes through
the batteries.

Eliminating or greatly reducing this cost is a great savings.

But for the next 10 years or so and maybe longer, simply using
electric-drive (series) hybrid and Plug-In hybrids probably makes the most
sense for everyone.

This is certainly true if you are planning to electrify highways.

Compressed air, however, is a cheaper _overall_ energy storage system
than electric. A hybrid - air system is somewhat less efficient than
hybrid electric and must cycle more often, but eliminating battery
costs more than makes up for these shortcomings.

The real advantage in hybrid electric may come with electrification of
highways.

No modifications to infrastructure needed (other than fixing the potholes),
60 mpg easily achievable with small (5 kWh or so) battery. When batteries
become cheaper and lighter, plug-in hybrids are a very simple, logical
extention of that platform.

And plug-in hybrids take electricity at nightly (low) rates, whereas a
electrified highway system or battery-swap system have to pay daytime (high)
rates.

That's a good point.


Bret Cahill