Electrical licensing

[Dennis Nolan]

nick <nick1234@hot wrote:

hmm.. maybe I have been mistaken all along?

As a degreed engineer.. am I allowed to work with the mains?

No, unless you are the holder of the required work licence.

If I install a rack of electrical gear, am I allowed to hardwire a cooler
for it into the fuse box? I'm pretty sure engineers at the major power
companies would be doing this stuff on a regular basis. I've never heard of
them being fined. I remember seeing my old power engineering teacher (he
come from an aluminium company) directing the engineers and electricians to
run power all over the place.

Once again no.

Major power companies would undoubtly have an Electrical contractors
licence as well as several electricians which hold electrical licences.
Also, in Victoria, new fixed wireing is prescribed work, and requires
inspection by an inspector. Non-prescribed work requires the licenced
electrical worker to issue a certificate of electrical safety.

Ever hear of engineers being fined by the electrical office? Or is this
purposely ambiguous, meaning the electrical unions don't venture there in
case there is a court ruling on it?

Yes I have. Go to the OCEI web site and look up details of past

prosecutions.

And should there ever be a serious workplace incident, when worksafe
start taking the place apart and wanting all the certificates and
inspection records, you will find out how serious they do take it.

Nick



"nick mail.com>" <nick1234@hot<nospam> wrote in message
news:41b13f6c_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

Have a nice day

Dennis.

 

[Dennis Nolan]

nick <nick1234@hot wrote:

aahh!

an electrician maybe?

you see, phoull, I don't have a problem with electricians at all. I dont
mind that they are the least educated and simplest of all electrical
workers.
What sort of education is required to deduce that a person's

intelligance is indicated by their employment.
Using your assumptions, George W. Bush has to be the most intelligent
person in the world, And John Howard the same for Australia.

What gets my goat is how they have lobbied to rig the system. I actually
dont think engineers should be able to immediately go off and do fixed
electrical wiring work. But putting a plug on a lead is a case of turning
over the packet you bought it in and looking at the picture.

Any decent engineer would notice that premoulded cordsets are cheaper

than plugtops and cable, so why bother.

What really shits me though is that there is not a relatively
straightforward short course option to allow those with higher electrical
qualifications to simply study the detail of the australian wiring standards
to get licensed and hence get fixed electrical wiring employment. You see,
and maybe the electrical unions have realised this, but the less simple of
us really dont shit ourselves sitting in front of an exam paper.

If you think that passing an exam on the Australian Wiring Standards

quallifies you to be an electrician, then you're deluding yourself.
That's why it's an apprenciceship.
As for the Electrical Unions, they tend to get pissed off when their
members are injured or killed because of illegal fixed wiring.

I think the adult apprenticeship is a step in the right direction its just
that I doubt many intelligent adults would put up with the trady crap that
goes on in building sites like some pimply faced simpleton would.

Just last Sunday, the front page story was on how good the building

industry workers had it. It was a lot of sensationilist crapp, but your
remark tends to indicate a lack of recient experience in the current
working environment on building sites.

Also there are differences between electronic and electrical work, the
main one being that electronic is Extra Low Voltage, electrical work is
at lethal voltages.

"Rheilly Phoull" <Rheilly@bigpong.com> wrote in message
news:31dge0F3ad6l4U1@individual.net...

"nick mail.com>" <nick1234@hot<nospam> wrote in message
news:41b17ebd_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

** That is Electronics Engineering - not Electrical.


no.. electronics is a subset of electrical engineering. In some
countries/universities the Electronic Engineering degree does not exist.

..... you dont want to go there


When I am at work engaged in the design of the equipments power

supply

am

I
not a practicing EE? and engaged on an EE project? And if this is so

may

I

not hook up the power lead and put the plug on?


** No need to have any license to fit AC plugs or leads to an

appliance.

Only those who install or modify electrical wiring in a premises

need

licences.


actually thats not true, one of the techs at work recently had to renew
their restricted licence (NREL?) to handle the connection of power leads

to

equipment. Its a rediculous licence for qualified electronics people to

have

to get.



Ahh Yes!!
Of course people who do all that complicated electronics must know (and

have

experience) in running mains cables and connecting them. I often wonder

why

such superior beings want to humble themselves by putting on a plugtop or
crawling around in a ceiling "jerking cables".

--
Regards ..... Rheilly Phoull



Have a nice day

Dennis.

 

[Dennis Nolan]

nick <nick1234@hot wrote:

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:31dhjuF3apaslU1@individual.net...

"nick mail.com>"

** That is Electronics Engineering - not Electrical.


no.. electronics is a subset of electrical engineering.



** One either IS or is NOT practising as an Electrical Engineer.

The difference is enormous.



the practice of electronics engineering is the practice of electrical
engineering .. simple.

see here if you are still unsure,
http://www.ieaust.org.au/./about_us/colleges/electrical/index.html


BTW Do not snip away contexts or shift words to a new context.




take it easy


In some
countries/universities the Electronic Engineering degree does not exist.


** How utterly irrelevant.



rubbish, you may major in computer engineering within an electrical
engineering degree. You may also major in power. Who cares what the uni
called it? Its all the same thing.



** No need to have any license to fit AC plugs or leads to an

appliance.

Only those who install or modify electrical wiring in a premises

need licences.


actually thats not true,



** Yes it is true in nearly all states of Australia and most places

round

the world.




Well around the world maybe.. not in Aus. I've worked in WA, QLD and TAS in
last 5 years and its in place there. I first heard of NREL in 1996... its
purpose was to be a national licence.

I was once actually threatened by one of the electricians when I was a
commonwealth employee for having rewired an electrical control box. (I had
disconnected it and took it away to the bench to work on it). He came in on
nightshift and saw I had done some electrical work on my bench, got the
shits, and went off and got advice from his union that I had been bad.(this
was while I was an electronics tech) The shit hit the fan the next day but I
was saved by the fact that the commonwealth award I was working under
allowed electronics technicians to do any electrical wiring work consistent
with their jobs. As I was working on a commonwealth site I was therefore ok.
As far as i know the commonwealth regs have not changed.

You are wrong. I work on a Defence Department Base, and now, all

electrical work has to comply with local state requirements.
No more DIY electrical work.
Also just last month all commonwealth employees were notified that their
special dispensation from all worksafe or duty of care issues is
ended. Should change the attitude of ranked personel.

A curious legal loophole to get around state licensing and a nice way to
stick it up their arses in the end. BTW there was never any issue with the
work quality, pretty simple stuff really.


Have a nice Day

Dennis.

 

[nick]

"Dennis Nolan" <dennik@swiftdsl.com.au> wrote in message news:41b81f91$0.

I think the adult apprenticeship is a step in the right direction its
just
that I doubt many intelligent adults would put up with the trady crap
that
goes on in building sites like some pimply faced simpleton would.

Just last Sunday, the front page story was on how good the building
industry workers had it. It was a lot of sensationilist crapp, but your
remark tends to indicate a lack of recient experience in the current
working environment on building sites.

I was the first one ever in my family to go to uni, and all my other
siblings (5) are/were tradesmen. I have a pretty good idea what the
mentallity of working sites is like and the existence or lack of it of
smarts. As I understand it one of my brothers still gets crap thrown at him
cause I dared go to uni.

Nick

 

[Dennis Nolan]

David wrote:

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 22:47:23 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:




What really shits me though is that there is not a relatively
straightforward short course option to allow those with higher electrical
qualifications to simply study the detail of the australian wiring
standards
to get licensed and hence get fixed electrical wiring employment.


** I doubt there is any demand for such an absurd scheme.




There was a course run by NSW TAFE, which I did a few years ago, which
allows a person with Electrical Engineering qualification (Tertiary Degree
or TAFE certificate) to obtain an NSW electrical contractor license. The
couse was one semester (6 months), two nights a week at the TAFE. One
night was theory, one night was practical. At the end was a theory and
practical exam. Once you completed the course, you went to the Dept of
Fair trading, did an oral examination, paid your money, and got an
electrical contractors licence (or for less money a restricted license).

The couse I did was pretty popular, as it was booked out, and they had to
run two courses.

David

If the person it truely competent then ok.

But to me it is a demonstration of the inadequicy of the current trendy
Competency based system.
I know several people who have gone that route, some are reasonably
competent while others are complete dip sticks.
Several weeks ago I tagged out a power supply because the three phase
supply cord was rated at 250Volts instead if 415Volts.
One of the instructers disputed this saying that as the power supply was
star configured the cable was only supplying 240Volts and so it was ok
to use the cable. I asked what the voltage was in the wall socket. And
he replied 415Volts, but that was in the socket and that the cable only
carried 240Volts. And he should know because he has an Electrical
Contractors License. He also said that cables were now dual rated and
that cables come with 250/500 volts and that meant that he could use a
cable rated at 250Volts for 415Volts. Now this bloke obviously has not
understood a lot of what he should have been learning during his course.
I sugested that he contact the OCEI, which he did. The cables have now
been replaced.
Personaly I feel that electrical safety is going down the gurgler.
The wolves have been set to guard the sheep.

Have a nice day
Dennis.

 

[nick]

"Dennis Nolan" <dennik@swiftdsl.com.au> wrote in message news:41b829a4$0>
Personaly I feel that electrical safety is going down the gurgler.

The wolves have been set to guard the sheep.

Have a nice day
Dennis.

I understand what you are saying dennis but the fears are not bourne out by
experience. For example in the uk, as I understand it, anyone can perform
residential electrical work as long as its approved by an inspector
afterwards. They dont have a greater rate of fatalities than what we do.
They also use individually fused power outlets, which I think should be used
here, so that may offer some protection over bad work.

In Queensland the safety office have used the fact that over 10 years there
were about a dozen fatalities among electrical workers as an excuse for
tightening licensing regs. Now all this says is that there is something
wrong with the electricians training. I cant ever remember hearing of these
sorts of numbers among electronics technicians, and yet they are the main
recipients of the new regs which restrict what they can do now.

Nick

As a sidenote I dont have a problem with concerns about competancy, but I
believe there must be some route other than the traditional apprenticeship
to allow people to practice. The apprenticeship system in reality only
caters to 16 year olds. Whether that is a mandated number of training hours
every year or two I dont know, but whatever it should be would probably help
even practicing electricians stay current.

 

[Phil Allison]

"nick mail.com>"

I understand what you are saying dennis but the fears are not bourne out
by
experience. For example in the uk, as I understand it, anyone can perform
residential electrical work as long as its approved by an inspector
afterwards. They dont have a greater rate of fatalities than what we do.

** Not just anyone - only the house owner can.

NZ introduced a similar system a while back - and now wishes they had not.

In Aussie, domestic work is not inspected so sparkies are getting away
with murder.




............ Phil

 

[Malcolm Moore]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:09:04 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"nick mail.com>"

I understand what you are saying dennis but the fears are not bourne out
by
experience. For example in the uk, as I understand it, anyone can perform
residential electrical work as long as its approved by an inspector
afterwards. They dont have a greater rate of fatalities than what we do.


** Not just anyone - only the house owner can.

NZ introduced a similar system a while back - and now wishes they had not.

Can you please provide some evidence that NZ "now wishes they had
not."

In Aussie, domestic work is not inspected so sparkies are getting away
with murder.

--
Regards
Malcolm
Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

 

[Bluey]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:31s48iF3d8o7qU1@individual.net...

"nick mail.com>"

I understand what you are saying dennis but the fears are not bourne out
by
experience. For example in the uk, as I understand it, anyone can
perform
residential electrical work as long as its approved by an inspector
afterwards. They dont have a greater rate of fatalities than what we do.


** Not just anyone - only the house owner can.

NZ introduced a similar system a while back - and now wishes they had
not.

In Aussie, domestic work is not inspected so sparkies are getting away
with murder.

It isn't??
Where abouts is that? would love to work there....
Cheers Bluey

 

[Phil Allison]

"Bluey"
"Phil Allison"

In Aussie, domestic work is not inspected so sparkies are getting away
with murder.

It isn't??
Where abouts is that?

** NSW for one - only if there is a complaint will an inspection occur.





.............. Phil

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:31drcqF3act1jU1@individual.net...

** You may be enlightened to know that I did the honours level EE course
at
Sydney Uni for two years - so I know exactly what a uni EE degree is
and
damn well is not.



.............. Phil

Ah, was this the one you "gracefully" withdrew from? Notice how you
conveniently leave out the part that you didn't graduate with your honours
degree..... Perhaps no degree at all in this field?

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:31drcqF3act1jU1@individual.net...

"nick mail.com>" = TOP POSTING psychotic EE puke.


let me tell you most sincerely Phil,


** You have not got a single *sincere* bone in your thick, Neanderthal
head.


you really need the degree, go to uni part time and get it.


** You may be enlightened to know that I did the honours level EE course
at
Sydney Uni for two years - so I know exactly what a uni EE degree is
and
damn well is not.

Ah, was this the one you "gracefully" withdrew from? Notice how you
conveniently leave out the part that you didn't graduate with your honours
degree..... Perhaps no degree at all in this field?

Cheers,
Alan

<<<< snipped the rest of Phil's offensive rant from the post >>>>>