Electric Cars Not Yet Viable

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 23:27:16 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2019-06-29, John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

For 115V you need wires 4 with times cross section to get the same
power loss as for and equivalent power load at 240V

I need a translation.

I'm talking about how much copper is needed to meet a fractional power
loss target in power distriution, somehow I seem to have substiuted
115 for 120

Ag assume a 1200W load,

At 120V that's 10A , and a 0.01 ohm resustiance in the wires dissipates 1W

At 240V that's 5A, and you can use thinner wires ( 0.04 ohms) and
still see 1W loss.

But 120-N-120 at 10 amps per hot wire delivers 2400 watts. So does
240-N at 10 amps per wire.

The wires from the transformer down the street, to my house, are
120-N-120. I think the neutral wire is smaller than the hot ones. The
only copper penalty for the US residential distribution scheme is
adding 1 neutral wire to two hot ones, as compared to one neutral
added to three in europe.

The runs inside the house here, breaker panel to outlets, are short
and don't have much loss. Big loads are 240 anyhow, same as in europe.

In my old (1892) Victorian, one day some of the lights got extra
bright. I called PG&E and they rolled a truck but the crew didn't want
to believe me. I had to get a DVM and convince them the problem was
real. There was an open neutral connection on a pole outside. One leg
was up to almost 140, measured to my internal open neutral.

That house originally had gas lighting, then knob-and-tube wiring.
It's a miracle that it didn't burn down in the 100 years before I
owned it.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:10:13 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:02:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

If it takes an hour to fast-charge an electric car, the stall is
occupied for an hour. Or more if the owner doesn't immediately move the
car when it's charged. That's going to take some serious real estate,
and some serious waiting times.

I can't believe some people are dumb enough to be buying EVs at this
early stage in their development. It can't be anything other than virtue-
signalling.

That's exactly what T-boy is doing here.

Having more electric cars, even 25%, is going to need some major
logistics.

The battery technology isn't here yet. A quantum leap breakthrough
(nothing less) in battery building - something totally novel - is the
only way these things can seriously challenge IC vehicles. They'll never
come close as things stand with poor range and absurdly long charging
times. Whoever gets to discover and patent that new battery will become
richer than Croesus and more famous than Edison.

It will never be. The physics isn't there. Carrying both reactants
can't be lighter than carrying only one. You can't get much denser
chemical energy than H-bonds and much lighter than a pile of H's on a
few Cs.

 

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 11:35:30 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:37:06 +0100, Andy Bennet <andyb@andy.com
wrote:

On 24/06/2019 06:02, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:41:49 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:


And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars

A gasoline pump moves about 10 GPM, which is equivalent to around 20
megawatts electrical. A car can fill up with gasoline in a few
minutes. Mine typically takes a minute or so.

If it takes an hour to fast-charge an electric car, the stall is
occupied for an hour. Or more if the owner doesn't immediately move
the car when it's charged. That's going to take some serious real
estate, and some serious waiting times.

Having more electric cars, even 25%, is going to need some major
logistics.



An EV can take as long as it likes to charge as long as it is ready when
I am.
It takes less than 30 SECONDS OF MY TIME to charge my EV.

Not if you're on a long trip, or away from home.

That's right. On long trips you can stop to eat while charging. It's insane to drive more than four hours without a break.

It's not uncommon on trips for us to drive eight or ten hours with
only pit stops. ...long enough to fill one tank and relieve another.
With two drivers, it's not impossible to drive 24hours with nothing
more than pit stops but I wouldn't do that anymore.

I park on the street, home and work. I couldn't easily charge. I can
easily fill up my gas tank in a few minutes every couple of weeks. SF
to Truckee, in a snowstorm with the heater and lights running, can be
done nonstop on one tank of gas. When chain controls are in effect,
2WD cars have issues. I don't see many Teslas up there in the winter.

That must be why they have two charging stations.

Because people argent foolish enough to buy that crap as their only
vehicle. They may have a toy in the garage but have another vehicle
for distance driving.

I don't think I have ever seen a Tesla with a ski rack.

Why would you want a ski rack where the skis can be stolen? Put them inside the car! Luggage in the front trunk and skis in the back.

Idiot.

 

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 04:08:39 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in news:8nPQE.3256$564.305@fx12.iad:

The real trick is to park an all-electric outdoors overnight at
below-0 temps. Without running an extension cord to the battery
heater.

You can apparently use a phone app to set your desired departure
time and the car will start warming up the systems ahead of time
so the cabin is heated and the battery and electronics loops are
at temp. I've never used this feature myself never really needed
it.


IIRC, this guy is stuck on LA batteries. The new batteries actually
perform just fine at lower temperatures, compared to lead acid.

AlwaysWrong, is, surprise, wrong again.

Did not say it was their ideal operating point, but it is not
anywhere near the hinderance it was/is for lead acid batteries.

AlwaysWrong.

 

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:06:43 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/26/19 1:10 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:07:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/26/19 12:03 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/26/19 11:13 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of
the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach.  I believe it was fairly
recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where
you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time.  It's
really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty  Even to go on a ski trip from NYC
to VT
it's absurd.  It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer?  I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.



The coldest I ever drove the Volt in on electric power was about -15 F

It was unhappy for a minute or two on start, the dash displayed
something like "Propulsion power reduced: Temperature" and acceleration
was sluggish

Then after a minute or two it was fine and seemed to perform normally


In weather like that though because the Volt also has a gas-burner it
will automatically bring up the engine and run engine coolant thru the
heat-exchanger to bring the battery "coolant" up to optimum temperature
rapidly.

Yes, having a gasoline engine really helps.

Sub-zero F temperatures that are truly arctic are uncommon in most of
the CONUS. In MA we have perhaps 7 days a year where it dips negative
for a significant length of time.

More nonsense from the snowflake. Sub-zero temperatures are very
common in the Northern tier of the US, with the exception of the band
along the Southern Great Lakes.

Average temp during the day in January average between about 20 F for a
low and 40 F for high. Those temperatures are little-to-no performance
handicap to an electric propulsion system other than decreased range.
Turn it on at 20 degrees F, immediately pull out and jump on the highway
and accelerate up to 70 no problem at all it all works fine with the
battery coolant temp hovering around 30 degrees on start and increasing
to 60-70 F after a few minutes.

The "average temperature" is meaningless in this context. I care
about the temperature when I have to actually drive. "Average" means
nothing.

The real trick is to park an all-electric outdoors overnight at
below-0 temps. Without running an extension cord to the battery
heater.

You can apparently use a phone app to set your desired departure time
and the car will start warming up the systems ahead of time so the cabin
is heated and the battery and electronics loops are at temp. I've never
used this feature myself never really needed it.

Of course none of this uses energy.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:44:17 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:50:00 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:53:15 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:34:57 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

Wait a minute... Just yesterday, Loony was bashing me for "knowing
nothing about electronics design". Now, Loony is bashing electronics
engineers...

What's so surprising? He's a coastal elite liberal-arts snowflake,
not an electronics engineer.

Isn't he a coder?

Script kiddie, at best.

I wonder what fraction of coders recognize the term "state machine."

10 %?

What's weird is that most procedural programs are littered with bugs,
from first compile to years after shipping, and most FPGAs get done
quickly and are bug-free. Both use text-based languages.

The weird thing here is that, superficially, humans are more
procedural/sequential thinkers than parallel ones.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

Funny thing is gas and diesel cars don't like cold. They get hard to start, can't heat the passengers until they are warmed up and require being warmed up to prevent damage to the drive train before driving at highway speeds. Jeeze, these ICE things are complicated to use. Makes you wonder why anyone wants them...

Hogwash! A well maintained, modern, gas car is trivial to start down
to -40ish. They were an issue with carburetors and coils but with
fuel injection and electronic ignition, they start quite easily. Even
diesels are relatively easy to start as long as the fuel doesn't gel
(again, a maintenance thing). Once started, either works just as well
as it does in warm weather. E cars don't. Period.

You really are a T-boy.

 

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:13:49 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

No, never. It's always 75F and sunny in Vermont, except on the ski
slopes. All lefties should move there now! It's one place their
politics can't destroy.

 

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:15:24 -0700 (PDT), keith wright
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Saturday, 29 June 2019 10:15:42 UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
...
Pay with a credit card and plug in, then the next guy parks in between stations that are in use, so he unplugs you and connects himself. Extension cords would have become available by then.

The paying-for-charging negotiation would be electronic, between the car and the charger. Next guy might unplug you and connect himself, but he'd pay for the current.

Currently only Tesla uses authentication between the car and charging station for billing purposes.

Billing? I thought they were free!

The high-speed DC charging standard implemented on all EVs that support it has a communication channel provided for car to charger negotiation for such purposes - only needs appropriate software, no physical changes required to existing designs.

An electronically controlled mechanical lock on the charging plug/socket wouldn't be impractical.

Most EVs already do that and lock the charging plug in place when the car doors are locked..

...

 

[John Doe]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The weird thing here is that, superficially, humans are more
procedural/sequential thinkers than parallel ones.

I often wish the operating system would allow me to do other things in
Windows while my (user input) script executes. Not possible given the
current interface, but it's conceivable.

 

[keith wright]

On Saturday, 29 June 2019 16:46:16 UTC-7, k...@notreal.com wrote:
....

Currently only Tesla uses authentication between the car and charging station for billing purposes.

Billing? I thought they were free!
....

No.

Tesla has multiple plans; with my Model 3 I don't get any free supercharging, some cars have free for life, some have 1200 miles free per year. Referrals and other special offers get various amounts of free charging.

For all of the plans, the car has to be authenticated first.

 

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 17:23:24 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:15:24 -0700 (PDT), keith wright
keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Saturday, 29 June 2019 10:15:42 UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
...
Pay with a credit card and plug in, then the next guy parks in between stations that are in use, so he unplugs you and connects himself. Extension cords would have become available by then.

The paying-for-charging negotiation would be electronic, between the car and the charger. Next guy might unplug you and connect himself, but he'd pay for the current.

Currently only Tesla uses authentication between the car and charging station for billing purposes.

The high-speed DC charging standard implemented on all EVs that support it has a communication channel provided for car to charger negotiation for such purposes - only needs appropriate software, no physical changes required to existing designs.

An electronically controlled mechanical lock on the charging plug/socket wouldn't be impractical.

Most EVs already do that and lock the charging plug in place when the car doors are locked..

...

I can imagine that some social interaction might happen when EVs
outnumber charging stations and some people hog the charging slot and
linger over a long lunch.

I understand that Teslas burn pretty well.

 

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 23:03:47 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/29/19 12:50 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:53:15 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:34:57 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

Wait a minute... Just yesterday, Loony was bashing me for "knowing
nothing about electronics design". Now, Loony is bashing electronics
engineers...

What's so surprising? He's a coastal elite liberal-arts snowflake,
not an electronics engineer.

Isn't he a coder?



Lol, did those usual suspects show up? AoC's name has near mystical
power to attract old ghouls, apparently.

Did anyone bring her up? Since you did, there is a resemblance.
You're both stupid as stone. She's a lot funnier, though, and keeps
Nancy busy.

I don't see their posts much anymore; they never have any technical
content and they've stopped being otherwise amusing. I wonder if they
think I'll miss their invaluable engineering insights...

You're a liar.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/29/19 12:49 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:55:32 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/26/19 10:37 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 8:02:15 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 7:53 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 5:51 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 1:24:44 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/25/19 1:21 PM, bitrex wrote:

And you know what a young person might say at that point? FUCK YOU, OLD
MAN. Ha!

and I don't blame them one bit. Tell an old boostrap-theory
Puritan-work-ethic codger who could buy a new car for $2000 in 1973vto
go fuck themselves, today. It feels great!


Don't have to like it. Probably won't. Keep in mind though that a lot of
the "kids these days" think guillotines are a more cost-effective option
than caring for aging boomers who always want to go on and on about how
easy it all is.

Maybe we shouldn't teach French anymore?


citizens in positions of real power regularly, who are somewhat less
than pushing 75 years old on average, would probably be enough to please
'em.

The kids these days know well enough that the experience and wisdom that
can come with age has advantages in positions like that but lately often
have trouble finding anything but 10 year olds in 70 year old bodies
occupying them.

they accurately recognize having the bumbling and elderly running things
as the luxury-social-security-in-all-but-name program that it is and
start thinking about questions of expendability

Everyone's so shocked that there's a 29 y/o female ex-bartender holding
a seat in Congress only thing shocking is that it didn't happen sooner
given that prolly near half of her age bracket is stuck working service
industry dead-end jobs.

You think just maybe that's because she got a degree in economics and is
dumb as a brick?

She had a parent whose home was getting foreclosed on that needed
support and there aren't that many private sector jobs immediately
available for BU-educated economics majors in the Bronx, I imagine.

She probably could've done what many economics majors do and go for
their masters and PhD and end up teaching in the university system as an
adjunct, or in academia, respectively, but depending on the venue
bar-tending pays much better. and you don't end up $200,000 further in
debt. Doesn't sound so "economically illiterate" to me.

Also you don't have to deal with all the shit heads with PhDs in
academia who will be your bosses. they all got there because they were
very smart there was no sucking of dicks involved I assure you! okay
well maybe a few dicks.

You seem to think about that a lot. Maybe some other newsgroup would
be more appropriate to your interests.

Couldn't tell ya why they mad tho. Bartender becomes a Congresswoman and
a liberal-arts major works in tech. Thought you'd be happy we got "real
jobs" mr not-an-elitist. Oh well.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/29/19 12:50 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:53:15 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:34:57 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

Wait a minute... Just yesterday, Loony was bashing me for "knowing
nothing about electronics design". Now, Loony is bashing electronics
engineers...

What's so surprising? He's a coastal elite liberal-arts snowflake,
not an electronics engineer.

Isn't he a coder?

Lol, did those usual suspects show up? AoC's name has near mystical
power to attract old ghouls, apparently.

I don't see their posts much anymore; they never have any technical
content and they've stopped being otherwise amusing. I wonder if they
think I'll miss their invaluable engineering insights...

 

[bitrex]

On 6/29/19 7:56 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:44:17 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:50:00 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:53:15 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:34:57 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

Wait a minute... Just yesterday, Loony was bashing me for "knowing
nothing about electronics design". Now, Loony is bashing electronics
engineers...

What's so surprising? He's a coastal elite liberal-arts snowflake,
not an electronics engineer.

Isn't he a coder?

Script kiddie, at best.

I wonder what fraction of coders recognize the term "state machine."

10 %?

anyone who works in the games industry knows what a state machine is,
they're used all the time.

What's weird is that most procedural programs are littered with bugs,
from first compile to years after shipping, and most FPGAs get done
quickly and are bug-free. Both use text-based languages.

The weird thing here is that, superficially, humans are more
procedural/sequential thinkers than parallel ones.

Deep thoughts, robot-man.

 

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 17:25:20 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:50:31 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:13:49 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

No, never. It's always 75F and sunny in Vermont, except on the ski
slopes. All lefties should move there now! It's one place their
politics can't destroy.

We need to invent a car that runs on wood, or maple syrup.

Reagan was right. Maple trees put out tons and tons of smug.

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, June 29, 2019 at 10:34:08 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

Electric metering has some interesting math. It's actually hard to
make an electronic meter that's as good as the old rotating disk
things.

It's easy to make one better. The rotating disk meter is easily mucked by a simple magnet.

--

Rick C.

-++++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, June 29, 2019 at 7:51:59 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:52:23 -0700 (PDT), omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:

A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.

Is anyone doing that?

Around ten years ago I thought, if this EV thing continues, then we'll
have to go that way. Like a car wash where your car is pulled in and the
battery pack swapped.

Since a lot of the enviro-left live in cities where they park on the
street you'd think they would have thought about the impossibility of
charging "at home." Imagine what would happen if there were charging
stations all along the sidewalk, aside from being ugly. Pay with a
credit card and plug in, then the next guy parks in between stations
that are in use, so he unplugs you and connects himself. Extension cords
would have become available by then.

Cities like Washington, DC already have streets lined with parking meters. They have more recently introduced kiosks where you pay for anywhere on the block and put the receipt visible in the car, so a single larger ugly thing rather than a number of smaller ugly things. EV outlets can be used that have no post, recessed into the sidewalk or curb and you use a cell phone and credit card to pay.

How this issue is dealt with will be ironed out over the next decade or so. Some places will install good systems, some poor systems and some no systems. We will see which ones evolve into systems that are adopted by all, much like the electrification of the world itself.

Not sure what you are talking about with the extension cords. No one can unplug the charging cable from my Tesla unless I unlock it. But I can see vandalism being a problem. Yet another reason why I don't like living in the city.

--

Rick C.

-+++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:54:28 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:50:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/24/19 3:52 PM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
A battery exchange station will replace the gas station.
It is faster to remove a battery block and put a fresh
block in than it is to fill a tank with gasoline. It is
safer than a self-driving auto-pilot tesla.


The flat packs weigh the better part of a 1000 lbs and fill most of the
negative space under the floor of the car how do you propose to swap
them out rapidly? they're part of the structure of the car

Tesla was working on this approach. I believe it was fairly recently (last four years maybe) they decided to drop the idea.

I would assume this was for something like taxis or other use where you need to keep the vehicle on the road most of the time. It's really not that big of a deal for a standard use vehicle even on trips.


See what you say when you have a family emergency and need to travel 400
miles and your car is near empty Even to go on a ski trip from NYC to VT
it's absurd. It's already a five or six hour trip and who wants to
make it even longer? I'm not going to plan my life around my car's
limitations.




Does it get cold in the winter in Vermont? E cars don't like cold.

Funny thing is gas and diesel cars don't like cold. They get hard to start, can't heat the passengers until they are warmed up and require being warmed up to prevent damage to the drive train before driving at highway speeds. Jeeze, these ICE things are complicated to use. Makes you wonder why anyone wants them...

Hogwash! A well maintained, modern, gas car is trivial to start down
to -40ish. They were an issue with carburetors and coils but with
fuel injection and electronic ignition, they start quite easily. Even
diesels are relatively easy to start as long as the fuel doesn't gel
(again, a maintenance thing). Once started, either works just as well
as it does in warm weather.

At those temperatures, diesels can be problematic. Diesels are hard to
crank and the battery capacity falls rapidly. If you forgot to connect
the block heater in the evening, the car might not start in the
morning.

During the day, you nay gave to cover the hood with an old rug to
maintain some of the morning commute heat in the motor compartment.
Still you may have to drive a short trip during the lunch break to
keep the temperatures reasonable for the evening commute.

At temperatures down to -20 C, diesels behave quite well, but when
going down to -40 C, things get complicated.

> E cars don't. Period.

In addition to battery issuesm,does e.g. power steering work from the
start or is the driver kept warm driving around without power
steering.

You really are a T-boy.