EAGLE Netlist conversion

Tim Wescott · Mar 11, 2011

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:05:51 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

Use an up/down counter (7490?), count up fast during the pulse, count
down slow afterward.

Or use a micro to do the same thing (if you're not making custom
silicon). Is a SOT-23 package too big?
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/41239D.pdf

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Hal Murray · Mar 11, 2011

In article <4p0jn6tjgsarktlg3nmsksrgi6mcig2spe@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> writes:

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

You didn't say much about your environment. If you are building
a board rather than a chip, long delays are simple in software.

Assuming you want to use a counter...

Make a counter that is big enough. Load it with a magic number.
After N cycles, it will overflow. Add glue around the edges to
make it do what you want.

Suppose you have an active low load signal. Wire that to the pulse-out FF.
Set the pulse-out with the pulse-in. Use the carry-out the top to reset
the pulse-out FF. It will sit there reloading itself until you poke it
again.

--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

Robert Baer · Mar 11, 2011

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:00:01 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky
nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Oh! How Larkinesque
Could you put some values (and device dimensions) on that sketch ?
Here is absolutely symmetrical XOR, it is also absolutely minimal

http://www.abvolt.com/misc/xor.jpg

Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com

I'm not getting across to you. Describe how that works.

...Jim Thompson
I am also curious as how that is supposed to work.

Robert Baer · Mar 11, 2011

Jim Thompson wrote:

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

...Jim Thompson
Maybe one of those single ripple counter ICs available (now) or

umpteen years?

flipper · Mar 11, 2011

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:58:42 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:00:01 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky
nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Oh! How Larkinesque

Could you put some values (and device dimensions) on that sketch ?

Here is absolutely symmetrical XOR, it is also absolutely minimal

http://www.abvolt.com/misc/xor.jpg

Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com

I'm not getting across to you. Describe how that works.

If you need an inverted output too just run the bottom mosfet into the
base of a top CCS loaded NPN. I.E. a mirror structure to the PNP
shown.

> ...Jim Thompson

Michael A. Terrell · Mar 11, 2011

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:47:17 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 22:32:55 +0100, "Arie de Muynck"
nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

"Tom Del Rosso" <td_03@att.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:2fadnTz6z99wvOTQnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@giganews.com...

Arie de Muynck wrote:
"Arie de Muynck" wrote:
I do remember it. I saw it inside a TTL EXOR circuit, maybe the
7486. Two NPN's, E and B cross connected to open collector drivers
(A and B), output taken from connected collectors, with a pull-up.
At least it is symmetrical, but maybe not too fast.

A ---- E1 -- B2 pull-up
|
C1 -- C2 --+--- OUT

B ---- B1 -- E2

I was thinking of the same thing, but it was the TTL 8-bit parity
generator (don't remember the number), not the 7486. I think the parity
generator/checker used 8 gates.

Apparently Jim doesn't have discreets on his ASIC or he would have liked
this.

Maybe he just did not read this part of the thread. Or I'm blacklisted.
The beautiful symmetry should appeal to him.

And of course it needed some pull-ups on the O.C. drivers as well...

If it was driven by another like it, as in the parity tree. But couldn't
it be driven high and low? (IANAEE)

No, hard driving one input high, the other low would overdrive conducting
B-E junctions.
And you need to pull the E's low hard to get the output at a logic low
level.
The base is then driven though the other pull-up.

Now I think of it, this piece or RTL logic with a twist even looks nicer (2x
NPN):

|\ VCC
A --| >-+------- E C -----+ |
|/ | B | (R)
\ /--(R)--+ | |
X +------+--- OUT
/ \--(R)--+ |
|\ | B |
B --| >-+------- E C -----+
|/

A good bottle of dry white signed by Jim is OK to use this

Arie

You missed the part where what I really need is two circuits, each
with input A, but one with output A and the other with output Abar,
delay to each output EQUAL.

What is your preference in dry white wine ?

Unfortunately I'm on the wagon at the moment. Something untoward
going on in my colon. Colonoscopy scheduled for Tuesday. Damned
capitalist health care... 1 week delay (from Doctor's order) while I'm
weaned from anti-inflammatory which could cause bleeding ;-)

A week? It was over a year with the VA.

I know. That's a shame :-(

Once upon a time there was the GI Bill where servicemen were properly
rewarded for their sacrifices.

I was just transferred to one of the newest VA clinics in the
country, at 'The Villages' which is located south of Ocala, Fl. It has
100 exam rooms, MRI, Catscan, Ultrasound & X-ray. It has a dental
clinic, wound care, and optical department. They are supposed to offer
Lasik surgery later this year. It has two outpatient ORs, and a dozen
other services. The only difference between it and a hospital is that
there are no patient rooms. State law sets the number of patient rooms
in each area, but has no control over any other services. It also has
over 160 parking spaces, compared to the couple dozen at the last clinic
I was assigned to. I have lab work there on the 17th, and my first
doctor's appointment at the end of the month.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

flipper · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 01:09:32 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:00:01 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky
nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Oh! How Larkinesque
Could you put some values (and device dimensions) on that sketch ?
Here is absolutely symmetrical XOR, it is also absolutely minimal

http://www.abvolt.com/misc/xor.jpg

Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com

I'm not getting across to you. Describe how that works.

...Jim Thompson
I am also curious as how that is supposed to work.

The input resistors sum the two inputs to three states, 0 (both 0),
1/2 (either at 1 with the other at 0), or 1 (both 1).

The mosfet gate thresholds are used as comparators for an input state
detector. (Both inputs) 0 or 1 turns off either the top or bottom
mosfet. 1/2Vcc turns on both.

The output PNP only conducts when both mosfets conduct. I.E.The output
goes high when the inputs are either 1-0 or 0-1 but not when 0-0 or
1-1.

John Fields · Mar 11, 2011

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:05:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

...Jim Thompson
n

____|____
/ \
| . . . |
+-+-------+-+
CLK>---------------|> |
+----+ | DIV n |
IN>------|S Q|-+--|E TC|-+
| | | +-----------+ |
+-|R | | |
| +----+ +--->OUT |
+-------------------------+

---
JF

Oppie · Mar 11, 2011

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:4p0jn6tjgsarktlg3nmsksrgi6mcig2spe@4ax.com...

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

...Jim Thompson

I believe that one of the new Linear Tech parts in the 'timerblox' family
will do this. The one shot version goes 1uS to 34 Seconds with one resistor
change. Your choice of triggering options.
www.linear.com/products/timerblox
http://cds.linear.com/docs/LT%20Magazine/LTJournal-V20N4-01-df-Timerblox-Andy_Crofts.pdf

Oppie

Jim Thompson · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:23:45 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:05:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

...Jim Thompson
n
____|____
/ \
| . . . |
+-+-------+-+
CLK>---------------|> |
+----+ | DIV n |
IN>------|S Q|-+--|E TC|-+
| | | +-----------+ |
+-|R | | |
| +----+ +--->OUT |
+-------------------------+

---
JF

Thanks, John F !!!

I knew it was simple. I was just having a brain freeze

Jim Thompson · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:23:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:47:17 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 22:32:55 +0100, "Arie de Muynck"
nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

"Tom Del Rosso" <td_03@att.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:2fadnTz6z99wvOTQnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@giganews.com...

Arie de Muynck wrote:
"Arie de Muynck" wrote:
I do remember it. I saw it inside a TTL EXOR circuit, maybe the
7486. Two NPN's, E and B cross connected to open collector drivers
(A and B), output taken from connected collectors, with a pull-up.
At least it is symmetrical, but maybe not too fast.

A ---- E1 -- B2 pull-up
|
C1 -- C2 --+--- OUT

B ---- B1 -- E2

I was thinking of the same thing, but it was the TTL 8-bit parity
generator (don't remember the number), not the 7486. I think the parity
generator/checker used 8 gates.

Apparently Jim doesn't have discreets on his ASIC or he would have liked
this.

Maybe he just did not read this part of the thread. Or I'm blacklisted.
The beautiful symmetry should appeal to him.

And of course it needed some pull-ups on the O.C. drivers as well...

If it was driven by another like it, as in the parity tree. But couldn't
it be driven high and low? (IANAEE)

No, hard driving one input high, the other low would overdrive conducting
B-E junctions.
And you need to pull the E's low hard to get the output at a logic low
level.
The base is then driven though the other pull-up.

Now I think of it, this piece or RTL logic with a twist even looks nicer (2x
NPN):

|\ VCC
A --| >-+------- E C -----+ |
|/ | B | (R)
\ /--(R)--+ | |
X +------+--- OUT
/ \--(R)--+ |
|\ | B |
B --| >-+------- E C -----+
|/

A good bottle of dry white signed by Jim is OK to use this

Arie

You missed the part where what I really need is two circuits, each
with input A, but one with output A and the other with output Abar,
delay to each output EQUAL.

What is your preference in dry white wine ?

Unfortunately I'm on the wagon at the moment. Something untoward
going on in my colon. Colonoscopy scheduled for Tuesday. Damned
capitalist health care... 1 week delay (from Doctor's order) while I'm
weaned from anti-inflammatory which could cause bleeding ;-)

A week? It was over a year with the VA.

I know. That's a shame :-(

Once upon a time there was the GI Bill where servicemen were properly
rewarded for their sacrifices.

I was just transferred to one of the newest VA clinics in the
country, at 'The Villages' which is located south of Ocala, Fl. It has
100 exam rooms, MRI, Catscan, Ultrasound & X-ray. It has a dental
clinic, wound care, and optical department. They are supposed to offer
Lasik surgery later this year. It has two outpatient ORs, and a dozen
other services. The only difference between it and a hospital is that
there are no patient rooms. State law sets the number of patient rooms
in each area, but has no control over any other services. It also has
over 160 parking spaces, compared to the couple dozen at the last clinic
I was assigned to. I have lab work there on the 17th, and my first
doctor's appointment at the end of the month.

petrus bitbyter · Mar 11, 2011

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> schreef
in bericht news:4p0jn6tjgsarktlg3nmsksrgi6mcig2spe@4ax.com...

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Well, the basic idea is to use the pulse to be streched to set a flipflop
(asynchronously) and to start the counter. When the counter overflows it
resets the flipflop and stops the counting until the next pulse appears.

petrus bitbyter

Michael A. Terrell · Mar 11, 2011

Jim Thompson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I was just transferred to one of the newest VA clinics in the
country, at 'The Villages' which is located south of Ocala, Fl. It has
100 exam rooms, MRI, Catscan, Ultrasound & X-ray. It has a dental
clinic, wound care, and optical department. They are supposed to offer
Lasik surgery later this year. It has two outpatient ORs, and a dozen
other services. The only difference between it and a hospital is that
there are no patient rooms. State law sets the number of patient rooms
in each area, but has no control over any other services. It also has
over 160 parking spaces, compared to the couple dozen at the last clinic
I was assigned to. I have lab work there on the 17th, and my first
doctor's appointment at the end of the month.

Great! Good luck!

Thanks.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

John Larkin · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:51:36 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
<shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:05 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

74HC123 goes quite nicely to the 10 second range with RC's. 555
derivatives do too too and is retriggerable if you hang a PNP outside
(see datasheet for example).

JT says "I'm leery of RC due to leakage" which puts him as out of
touch with analog design as he's out of touch with digital. Hmmmm....
what's left?

If you want to use a counter, try a 74HC4060.

No, he doesn't understand counters.

He'd better use a spring timer.

John

John Fields · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:01:36 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:51:36 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:05 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

74HC123 goes quite nicely to the 10 second range with RC's. 555
derivatives do too too and is retriggerable if you hang a PNP outside
(see datasheet for example).

JT says "I'm leery of RC due to leakage" which puts him as out of
touch with analog design as he's out of touch with digital. Hmmmm....
what's left?

If you want to use a counter, try a 74HC4060.

No, he doesn't understand counters.

He'd better use a spring timer.

John

---
news:uvmkn6d8ar8iuv9g0pp5jr338fuh2hrglq@4ax.com

---
JF

Tim Shoppa · Mar 11, 2011

On Mar 10, 9:05 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:

I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

74HC123 goes quite nicely to the 10 second range with RC's. 555
derivatives do too too and is retriggerable if you hang a PNP outside
(see datasheet for example).

If you want to use a counter, try a 74HC4060.

Tim.

Michael A. Terrell · Mar 11, 2011

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:51:36 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:05 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

74HC123 goes quite nicely to the 10 second range with RC's. 555
derivatives do too too and is retriggerable if you hang a PNP outside
(see datasheet for example).

JT says "I'm leery of RC due to leakage" which puts him as out of
touch with analog design as he's out of touch with digital. Hmmmm....
what's left?

If you want to use a counter, try a 74HC4060.

No, he doesn't understand counters.

He'd better use a spring timer.

Silly rabbit, it's still Winter!

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Jim Thompson · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:39:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:51:36 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:05 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

74HC123 goes quite nicely to the 10 second range with RC's. 555
derivatives do too too and is retriggerable if you hang a PNP outside
(see datasheet for example).

JT says "I'm leery of RC due to leakage" which puts him as out of
touch with analog design as he's out of touch with digital. Hmmmm....
what's left?

If you want to use a counter, try a 74HC4060.

No, he doesn't understand counters.

He'd better use a spring timer.

Silly rabbit, it's still Winter!

John Larkin · Mar 11, 2011

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:39:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:51:36 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:05 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
I need a 10 SECOND pulse stretcher!

I vaguely recall doing that using a counter, but can't recall the
details.

74HC123 goes quite nicely to the 10 second range with RC's. 555
derivatives do too too and is retriggerable if you hang a PNP outside
(see datasheet for example).

JT says "I'm leery of RC due to leakage" which puts him as out of
touch with analog design as he's out of touch with digital. Hmmmm....
what's left?

If you want to use a counter, try a 74HC4060.

No, he doesn't understand counters.

He'd better use a spring timer.

Silly rabbit, it's still Winter!

People were skiing in shorts yesterday. It was, like, 40 degrees. You
didn't really need gloves.

John

m II · Mar 11, 2011

I had both ends done a few months ago. Nothing to it.

-----------

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news:CKOdne23pZyN2ufQnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
Thanks.

Jim Thompson wrote:
> Great! Good luck!

EAGLE Netlist conversion

Tim Wescott

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Hal Murray

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Robert Baer

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Robert Baer

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flipper

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Michael A. Terrell

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flipper

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John Fields

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Oppie

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Jim Thompson

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Jim Thompson

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petrus bitbyter

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Michael A. Terrell

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John Larkin

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