Driver to drive?

[Mycelium]

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:05:04 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:09:19 -0700, Mycelium
mycelium@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:20:20 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:02:03 -0700, Mycelium
mycelium@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:45:13 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

You make no sense, then. Hexadecimal is a special case, or expression
of binary. Paper tape is binary, at least in most senses.

Paper tape is absolutely binary.

Depennds on how you define (or look at) things. This one can be argued
either way (as can hexadecimal/binary).

Unless you live in Florida, then, it is tri-state, depending on the 'chad factor'.

...and MN is chadless.


The individual holes are binary, hence the term 'absolute'.

It is a character device, so there is no "'absolute'".

Of course a string of holes can be referred to as a 'word' or 'byte' or
whatever one wishes, and the entire area can be sectored off in some
manner or not, but the most base element is on or off, hole or no hole.

The reader is a character device.

Optically reading a printed character results (hopefully by design) in
a specific language (dissemination). Optically reading holes in a card,
tape, sheet, etc. of paper are BINARY decisions, even though reading a
block of such holes disseminates a "character" or "word" of the
"language" being used.

The questions: 'Is there a hole?', and 'At what location?' can
disseminate a hole that would be binary into a hole that represents a
choice or entire character because geographical position is also weighed
in and becomes part of the 'language' of the coding system.

It is still a mere on or off, hole or no hole decision engine at the
reader/punch level. That's binary.

So if the hole's position mattered, the dissemination would be two
fold. Location, and hole/no_hole binary switch. The two can result in a
"character", but the mechanics and the status of the hole or no_hole
question are resolved in a binary manner.

If the hole needs to be in with a group of other holes to determine a
"word" or "character", that is a datagram, read by rows and columns, but
the actual holes are still read binary when the read engine scans that
row/column group to compile the character or word.

Reading a UID tag that is very small and printed white on clear is a
pain in the rear. One has to place a printed sample on a black surface
to get the verifier scanners to read it. It amounts to the same thing. A
series of contrast difference blocks as opposed to holes. Read by a
laser as opposed to an optocoupler or such.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:59:18 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored <RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?

Quote correct post dot calm.

 

[scorpius]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:54:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

I just had oral surgery, and I just don't give a damn right now. I'm
in pain, and drooling blood.

And I... *I* AM SCORPIUS!

 

[Jamie]

krw wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:14:53 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


krw wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:51:13 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:



krw wrote:



On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:39:31 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:




Doug Miller wrote:




In article <KLX4m.2006$cW.1746@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold and Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:




"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:AI14m.2332$Wj7.1124@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...




In article <VWY3m.1928$cW.1327@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold and
Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:





The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.

Nonsense. 245VAC could *easily* be a [nominal] 240V single-phase service.

Yes, it could be, but we're talking about industrial machinery, generally
powered by three phase. I have serious doubts that a single phase CNC
would contain a $4,000 board when you can buy the machines for that amount
of money.

I'm convinced the wiring in question is three phase. The only remaining
question is whether it's delta or wye. Considering wye reads 208 volts leg
to leg, I'm pretty sure its delta. You?


The point is that a measurement of 245V, in and of itself, is not proof of
3-phase delta service. I measure 243V between the two legs of my residential
service, and I'm quite sure that it's only single-phase.

How ever, it is most likely originating from a 3 phase source via a
single phase xformer.


What's that got to do with the price of oats in China?

I don't know about oats, but I hear the price of rice is up!


I figured that you were talking through your ass again.

That's a matter for opinion and apparently, yours don't count!


That is a matter of fact, though you wouldn't know a fact if it bit
you where you talk.

Coming from you I won't get shook up about it as you struggle, trip
and fall climbing to the heights of glory. And when you look back, no
one is following, nor do they care.

You are among the mushroom people.

Born in the dark, stay in the dark, always given shit and when big
enough, get canned!

 

[krw]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:47:20 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

krw wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:14:53 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


krw wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:51:13 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:



krw wrote:



On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:39:31 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:




Doug Miller wrote:




In article <KLX4m.2006$cW.1746@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold and Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:




"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:AI14m.2332$Wj7.1124@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...




In article <VWY3m.1928$cW.1327@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold and
Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:





The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.

Nonsense. 245VAC could *easily* be a [nominal] 240V single-phase service.

Yes, it could be, but we're talking about industrial machinery, generally
powered by three phase. I have serious doubts that a single phase CNC
would contain a $4,000 board when you can buy the machines for that amount
of money.

I'm convinced the wiring in question is three phase. The only remaining
question is whether it's delta or wye. Considering wye reads 208 volts leg
to leg, I'm pretty sure its delta. You?


The point is that a measurement of 245V, in and of itself, is not proof of
3-phase delta service. I measure 243V between the two legs of my residential
service, and I'm quite sure that it's only single-phase.

How ever, it is most likely originating from a 3 phase source via a
single phase xformer.


What's that got to do with the price of oats in China?

I don't know about oats, but I hear the price of rice is up!


I figured that you were talking through your ass again.

That's a matter for opinion and apparently, yours don't count!


That is a matter of fact, though you wouldn't know a fact if it bit
you where you talk.

Coming from you I won't get shook up about it as you struggle, trip
and fall climbing to the heights of glory. And when you look back, no
one is following, nor do they care.

At least I can climb. Your model of glory is DimBulb.

You are among the mushroom people.

Born in the dark, stay in the dark, always given shit and when big
enough, get canned!

No, I don't give a shit about you. That's what you are.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <U0T4m.16949$wE4.12720@newsfe02.iad>, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

I've already posted several links within this thread to show that licenses
are required by law.

Not everywhere, they aren't.

To date you have posted none, nada, zilch, zip to show
any one place in this country where a license is not required to do
electrical work.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Electrician_License.htm

Some excerpts that you will find educational:

"Please note that where no state agency is listed below, there may be local
licensing agencies that would have control ..."

"Illinois... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with local
jurisdictions"

"Indiana ... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with local
jurisdictions"

"Iowa ... The law requires that all individual contractors and businesses
performing “construction” work within Iowa be registered with the Division of
Labor if they earn at least $2,000 a year from that work."

Kansas -- no state licensing agency listed

Mississippi -- no licensing information listed

"Missouri ... check with local jurisdictions for licensing info"

"New York ... check with local jurisdictions for electrical licensing
requirements"

"Ohio ... licenses commercial contractors ... they do not license residential
contractors ..."

"The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has no requirements related to the
registration, certification or licensure of contractors (or their employees)
that are engaged in the construction industry. Some of Pennsylvania’s 2,565
municipalities have established local licensure or certification requirements
for contractors or construction trades people. ... The Commonwealth has no
jurisdiction in this matter ... "

So much for your blanket claim that "licenses are required by law." They are
in many places, sure -- but this ought to make it clear to you that they
certainly are *not* required everywhere.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <u43d55p082rgspl4gdiss6ejp5ba2moqn3@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored <RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:59:18 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored
RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?

Quote correct post dot calm.

I guess that means you don't have a cite.

 

[krw]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:28:43 -0700, Mycelium
<mycelium@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:05:04 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:09:19 -0700, Mycelium
mycelium@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:20:20 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:02:03 -0700, Mycelium
mycelium@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:45:13 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

You make no sense, then. Hexadecimal is a special case, or expression
of binary. Paper tape is binary, at least in most senses.

Paper tape is absolutely binary.

Depennds on how you define (or look at) things. This one can be argued
either way (as can hexadecimal/binary).

Unless you live in Florida, then, it is tri-state, depending on the 'chad factor'.

...and MN is chadless.


The individual holes are binary, hence the term 'absolute'.

It is a character device, so there is no "'absolute'".

Of course a string of holes can be referred to as a 'word' or 'byte' or
whatever one wishes, and the entire area can be sectored off in some
manner or not, but the most base element is on or off, hole or no hole.

The reader is a character device.


Optically reading a printed character results (hopefully by design) in
a specific language (dissemination). Optically reading holes in a card,
tape, sheet, etc. of paper are BINARY decisions, even though reading a
block of such holes disseminates a "character" or "word" of the
"language" being used.

Who said anything about optics? By your definition "octal",
"hexadecimal", and "ASCII", don't exist.

The questions: 'Is there a hole?', and 'At what location?' can
disseminate a hole that would be binary into a hole that represents a
choice or entire character because geographical position is also weighed
in and becomes part of the 'language' of the coding system.

Is there a character available? Stuff character.

It is still a mere on or off, hole or no hole decision engine at the
reader/punch level. That's binary.

But there are eight (or five). That's ASCII, or something.

So if the hole's position mattered, the dissemination would be two
fold. Location, and hole/no_hole binary switch. The two can result in a
"character", but the mechanics and the status of the hole or no_hole
question are resolved in a binary manner.

The decision isn't hole/no hole. It's character/no character. You
can't take them one bit at a time.

If the hole needs to be in with a group of other holes to determine a
"word" or "character", that is a datagram, read by rows and columns, but
the actual holes are still read binary when the read engine scans that
row/column group to compile the character or word.

Nope. They're read in parallel. They may be shifted/scanned after,
but they most certainly are read as a character.

Reading a UID tag that is very small and printed white on clear is a
pain in the rear. One has to place a printed sample on a black surface
to get the verifier scanners to read it. It amounts to the same thing. A
series of contrast difference blocks as opposed to holes. Read by a
laser as opposed to an optocoupler or such.

Why can't you stay on topic?

 

[krw]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:01:27 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <u43d55p082rgspl4gdiss6ejp5ba2moqn3@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored <RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:59:18 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored
RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?

Quote correct post dot calm.

I guess that means you don't have a cite.

DimBulb doesn't have a brain.

 

[JosephKK]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:22:24 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
<vordos@tds.net> wrote:

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
news:g495m.12273$Il.4926@newsfe16.iad...
Doug Miller wrote:

In article <KLX4m.2006$cW.1746@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold and
Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:

snip

The point is that a measurement of 245V, in and of itself, is not proof
of 3-phase delta service. I measure 243V between the two legs of my
residential service, and I'm quite sure that it's only single-phase.
How ever, it is most likely originating from a 3 phase source via a
single phase xformer.


It is always from a three phase source. That's the way it comes from the
generators, although only one leg is generally used for distribution.

Where I live, one leg of the three phase ran the power for everyone on the
hill. When they needed to increase capacity, I paid for the third leg to be
installed while they were upgrading the service with the second leg. That's
how I ended up with three phase service in my shop, having had the primary
lines extended for over two miles.

Harold

That must have cost several pretty pennies.

 

[Rich.]

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:zmw5m.16430$iz2.787@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...

In article <U0T4m.16949$wE4.12720@newsfe02.iad>, "Rich."
rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:
I've already posted several links within this thread to show that licenses
are required by law.

Not everywhere, they aren't.

To date you have posted none, nada, zilch, zip to show
any one place in this country where a license is not required to do
electrical work.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Electrician_License.htm

Some excerpts that you will find educational:

"Please note that where no state agency is listed below, there may be
local
licensing agencies that would have control ..."

"Illinois... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with
local
jurisdictions"

"Indiana ... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with
local
jurisdictions"

"Iowa ... The law requires that all individual contractors and businesses
performing "construction" work within Iowa be registered with the Division
of
Labor if they earn at least $2,000 a year from that work."

Kansas -- no state licensing agency listed

Mississippi -- no licensing information listed

"Missouri ... check with local jurisdictions for licensing info"

"New York ... check with local jurisdictions for electrical licensing
requirements"

"Ohio ... licenses commercial contractors ... they do not license
residential
contractors ..."

"The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has no requirements related to the
registration, certification or licensure of contractors (or their
employees)
that are engaged in the construction industry. Some of Pennsylvania's
2,565
municipalities have established local licensure or certification
requirements
for contractors or construction trades people. ... The Commonwealth has no
jurisdiction in this matter ... "

So much for your blanket claim that "licenses are required by law." They
are
in many places, sure -- but this ought to make it clear to you that they
certainly are *not* required everywhere.

What your excerpts are stating is that licensing is controlled at the local
level instead of at a state level. None of them say that a license is not
required.

 

[Rich.]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:54:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

I just had oral surgery, and I just don't give a damn right now. I'm
in pain, and drooling blood.

Take some Midol.

 

[Wes]

spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored
RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?

Quote correct post dot calm.

I guess that means you don't have a cite.

Which one of him?

Some how we have a mulititude of 'different' posters with this in common.

X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.197.137.205
X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@cox.net


That posting host and version of agent is pretty popular in this thread.

Wes

 

[Rich.]

"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...

a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).

Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use the
EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

 

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:58:01 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:16:52 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
lionslair@consolidated.net> wrote:

I'm concerned that the system engineer (was one) didn't know what
they were doing - no internal protection - or was the customer
to cheap and didn't buy an option.

I hate that kind of option - to lower the price and risk failures.

Power lines have gone from 200 to 245 in my lifetime and will likely
continue to inch up.

Remember 100v and then 107 and 110 and 115 and 120 and 125 and 130...

Pushing more power with the same cables - requires higher voltages.

Martin

We have never gone above 120 anywhere in the lower 48 that I remember.


Please refrain from top posting.

I believe you are mistaken. Under the REA in the 1930s and '40s the
nominal voltage was 135. Voltage drops over the long rural lines made
variations significant - a short lane farm got 135 while a long lane
farm might get only 100 with any load running. IIRC much of this was
also 25 hz. (All early "niagara project" power was 25Hz - changed over
in the early fifties - I can still remember having new electric
clocks, and motors on washing machine and refrigerator being changed
over when I was a wee lad on the farm in Ontario.

"long life" lightbulbs sold for urban use even a few decades ago were
"farm bulbs" rated for 135 volts.DuroTest was a major manufacturer of
135 volt bulbs IIRC.

Still common in Mexico (DuroTest in Mexico is now DuroMex)

 

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:59:18 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored <RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?
National Electrical code is adopted by the state in Alaska,

Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, DC, Florida,
Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland,
Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana,New Hampshire, New Jersey,
New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee,
Texas, Utah, Vermont, Verginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin
and Wyoming.

In a few of these states there is also local adoption of the nationel
electrical code, which must excede the requirements of the version
adopted. (some are still on 2002, others on 2005, and still others on
2008)

Nevada does not adopt or enforce statewide codes.
Illinois is locally adopted in the majority of the state.
Hawaii has no state-wide code.
Arizona has adopted the code in Phoenix and Tuscon areas.
21 cities and states in Alabama have adopted the code in one version
or another.

This is all available at
http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/NECadoption/upload/Combined-NEC-Adoption-Report-No-IRC.xls
in spreadsheet form for those who need the "cite"

 

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:59:18 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored <RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?

http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/NECadoption/upload/Combined-NEC-Adoption-Report-No-IRC.xls

Also:
http://www.nec2k.com/electrical_code.html


As for licencing, only Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, New York,
Pennsylvania, and Texas do not licence electricians.

See http://www.nec2k.com/state_electrical.html for cite.

 

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:23:50 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <4A55E712.1A9D692C@earthlink.net>, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

In article <3fqa55tmj9u60ol0rmds7vav5nhj88bv7v@4ax.com>, ChairmanOfTheBored
RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:20:49 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

And you just made a legal error. The NEC is adopted nationally (in
the US),

Sorry, don't believe that. Got a cite?


Got a clue? The NEC was created by large insurance companies, soon
after the electrification of the United States started. There was little
information, and no testing of hardware, or methods. The NFPA set the
first fire safety standards. The NEC soon followed. The NFPA publishes
the NEC.

I understand that. The claim was that "The NEC is adopted nationally in the
US". And I don't believe that.

If your wiring doesn't meet their requirements, the insurance doesn't
pay off.

Please provide just *one* cite showing that has *ever* happened *anywhere* in
the U.S.

Local code can be tighter than the NEC, but not ignore any
aspect of it.

Not true. Any local jurisdiction can adopt any portion of the NEC as law, or
decline to adopt it, as it pleases.

If a town has lower standards, there is no insurance
available.

Bulls**t. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I lived thirteen
years in a rural area of Indiana that had *no* Code, *no* permits, *no*
inspections, and *no* licensing. And I had *no* problems getting insurance for
my home.

That means no one will loan money to buy, build or remodel
existing buildings. Soon, the town is dead, because businesses can't
afford to stay in business without insurance.

In the future, please confine your comments to areas in which you actually
know something. This is not one of them.

The electrical review committee last met in November 2008 and
recommended the adoption of the 2008 NEC without amendment. and have
forwarded their recommendations to the Indiana Department of Homeland
Security Commerce Division. On approximately February 6, 2009 Mara
Snyder, Director of Legal and Code Services for the Homeland
Department directed staff to delete 2008 expanded requirements for
AFCI and the new requirement for tamper resistant as an administrative
deleteion citing financial impact as the reason. Currently awaiting
the department's official report.

The 2005 version is currently in effect throughout Indiana by state
law.

You are correct however, in that Indiana has no trade licencing for
electricians.

 

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:14:43 -0700, Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com>
wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:33:29 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <e3fa55lbl02gq5pkhbmh8tredn4h79e9ps@4ax.com>, life imitates life wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:46:16 -0400, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

only legal for him to do so if a homeowners permit is pulled
Some jurisdictions do not even have any such animal as a "homeowner's
permit".

In Ohio, for example, I would have to get a "building permit" to make
an add on to my structure or to add a permanent building on my property.

I do not know, however, what the requirements are for any electrical
work done in said project.

Regardless, to be legal, ALL has to be inspected.
Depends on where you are. There are jurisdictions that have no permitting,
licensing, or inspection requirements.

I would think that such conditions are based on nearest proximity of
assets that belong to others.

You might think that. I'd be inclined to think
that it has something to do with the influence of the
electrician's union in the particular jurisdiction...

In the VAST majority of the country licencing and the unions are
totally divorced from each other.

Large percentage of residential electicians are non union in many
areas of the country - both Canada and the USA.

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:3v0d551qarqvsq7nhs6ccriqgupe5lrq6n@4ax.com...

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:22:24 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
vordos@tds.net> wrote:


"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in
message
news:g495m.12273$Il.4926@newsfe16.iad...
Doug Miller wrote:

In article <KLX4m.2006$cW.1746@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold and
Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:AI14m.2332$Wj7.1124@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

In article <VWY3m.1928$cW.1327@newsreading01.news.tds.net>, "Harold
and
Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote:


The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.

Nonsense. 245VAC could *easily* be a [nominal] 240V single-phase
service.

Yes, it could be, but we're talking about industrial machinery,
generally powered by three phase. I have serious doubts that a single
phase CNC would contain a $4,000 board when you can buy the machines
for
that amount of money.

I'm convinced the wiring in question is three phase. The only
remaining
question is whether it's delta or wye. Considering wye reads 208 volts
leg to leg, I'm pretty sure its delta. You?


The point is that a measurement of 245V, in and of itself, is not proof
of 3-phase delta service. I measure 243V between the two legs of my
residential service, and I'm quite sure that it's only single-phase.
How ever, it is most likely originating from a 3 phase source via a
single phase xformer.


It is always from a three phase source. That's the way it comes from the
generators, although only one leg is generally used for distribution.

All three legs are generally used for distribution.

Where I live, one leg of the three phase ran the power for everyone on the
hill. When they needed to increase capacity, I paid for the third leg to
be
installed while they were upgrading the service with the second leg.
That's
how I ended up with three phase service in my shop, having had the primary
lines extended for over two miles.

That's unusual. All three phases are generally on each pole in
populated areas. Some rural areas do have only one phase distributed
down each road. It is uncommon to have all three phases run into a
home, though.

Yeah, I should have been clear on how I said what I did. We live in a
remote area, with the smallest parcel being 5 acres. There are larger lots,
some of them as large as 60 acres. As a result, and the fact that it
hadn't developed much until the past ten years, only one leg ran on the
ridge. Growth necessitated the upgrade, but even then they had intended
to run only two of the legs. The three phase terminates at our residence,
and we are the only ones that are using all three legs.

I agree, having three phase run to a residence is not common, although I've
had it at the last three locations. First one was open delta. Second one
and this one are full blown three phase delta. Second one didn't cost us a
dime----all we had to do was guarantee a given amount of use over a given
amount of time. Wasn't so lucky here. It cost just over $22,000 to have
it run to us. Worth every damned penny as far as I'm concerned. I have a
50 kw induction furnace that I want to run, to say nothing of my numerous
three phase machine tools.

Harold