Driver to drive?

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT), bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, April 14, 2014 11:47:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
snip

More of your damned fool ignorance:

http://www.mmh.com/article/walkie_lift_trucks_a_good_walk_optimized

For the really out sized stuff, they just jack up one end of the pallet and shove a wheel set under it.

The pallets and machines are easy to move, once they are flat on the floor. The
problem was unloading the truck.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Gear/PnP/7500_Lbs.JPG

My folks had fun unloading this stuff, and are looking forward to setting it up
and learning how to run it all.

You are perpetually hostile and negative and crabby. That can't be healthy. Or
fun.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 12:17:04 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 04/15/2014 12:00 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, April 14, 2014 11:47:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
snip

More of your damned fool ignorance:

http://www.mmh.com/article/walkie_lift_trucks_a_good_walk_optimized

For the really out sized stuff, they just jack up one end of the pallet and shove a wheel set under it.


Good luck pulling a 7500 pound load up the camber of the street with a
manual truck. Or stopping it if it decides to go down.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

We have a manual pallet jack, and we're getting a couple more, to move this
stuff around indoors. One person can move any of those boxes with the jack that
we have, except the big one, and we can probably move the 7500 lb monster with
two. The pallet must be 10 feet long.

Unloading a truck is a different issue.

We have an ancient wooden Johnson Bar, left by the previous owners. One person
can move most anything with that, in small increments.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:30:12 -0700 (PDT), bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:22:00 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT), bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com

wrote:



On Monday, April 14, 2014 11:47:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

snip



More of your damned fool ignorance:



http://www.mmh.com/article/walkie_lift_trucks_a_good_walk_optimized



For the really out sized stuff, they just jack up one end of the pallet and shove a wheel set under it.



The pallets and machines are easy to move, once they are flat on the floor. The

problem was unloading the truck.



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Gear/PnP/7500_Lbs.JPG



My folks had fun unloading this stuff, and are looking forward to setting it up

and learning how to run it all.



You are perpetually hostile and negative and crabby. That can't be healthy. Or

fun.





--



John Larkin Highland Technology Inc

www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com



Precision electronic instrumentation

There are these things, Sherlock :

http://www.southworthproducts.com/content1873.html

None of this requires an 80' flatbed transport to the site. When you call the forklift people they're going to rent you a forklift because it's all they know.

Nonsense. Armchair theorist.

We don't need a loading dock in a pit; imagine what that would cost! And the
truck could not have backed up to one without blocking half the traffic in
downtown San Francisco.

The forklift guys delivered the green monster to our door in half an hour after
we decided that we needed it, for $500.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:00:10 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
<uhlqk9lah01jkqgaf6up69nteppnmmkrgs@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:39:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 15 Apr 2014 08:28:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
i1jqk91db339snges0irvk8tpqm9mk6vlt@4ax.com>:

Certainly cheaper, out in a desert, with miles and miles of miles and miles. But
there's a reason why Google and Square and Twitter and Linear and a zillion
other tech companies are in San Francisco and New York and Austin. The kind of
people that we need like to live here.

Besides, the air is cleaner here.

http://pilgrimito.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/phoenix-brown-cloud.jpg

I took this picture yesterday late afternoon, from inside:
http://panteltje.com/pub/rainbow_IMG_4440.JPG


Besides, I'd probably run into Jim at IHOP or Applebees or The Olive Garden.

Yea, likely.
;-)

Nice big one!

This is a rainbow over Lake Tahoe, on my birthday in 2010. We stopped at a
little general store for snacks and batteries, stepped outside, and saw this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Truckee/Rainbow.jpg

That's Nevada on the far side.

Beautiful!

We missed the lunar eclipse and red moon last night; fogged over. San Francisco
gets a lot of fog, especially in our neighborhood, in the Alemany Gap. But it's
nice clean fog, and we don't need air conditioning.

Yea, I did not bother, rain here, and seen the pictures in the news.
Moon eclipse does not impress me much.
Solar a bit more...

 

[Tim Williams]

"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote in message
news:liiqok$j04$1@dont-email.me...

In the real world, separate memory spaces for data and code is not /too/
bad, as long as read-only data is in the same memory space as read-write
data. (I don't mean you should be able to write over the read-only data
- it's fine for it to be protected in some way.) Harvard architecture
micros like the PICs and the AVRs are a serious pain to work with, and
the separate memory spaces means you have to jump through hoops to make
read-only data work. Slow, inefficient, and error-prone.

Regarding AVR8s at least, if you've only worked with them through GCC, I
understand that. The last time I tried to do something involved (a menu
datastructure stored in program memory), I found it was impossible to
convince the compiler that A connects to B to C to A, not to mention
trying to find what convoluted data type it wanted (is it a pointer to
data to PGM to..??!).

The underlying instructions couldn't be simpler:
- Load Z with address you want to look at
- LPM Z[+] to retrieve half a WORD (postincrement optional)
Hardly a rich operation (no immediate or indexed offset modes), but that's
not inconsistent with that sort of thing anyway.

The main downside is, programming RISC in assembly is so boring because
you need four instructions to get anything done.

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs
Electrical Engineering Consultation
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com

 

[Habib Bouaziz-Viallet]

Le Tue, 15 Apr 2014 07:31:26 -0700, RobertMacy a Êcrit :

I don't like Hall-effect sensors because they are current hogs and
drift.

Oh Hall effect sensors are not so bad, they have decent di(t)/dt, quite
linear, easy sensor conditionning ... well thermal drift is a problem and
also not so linear on small magnetic fields, but it's AFAIK the only(?)
relatively low cost solution for large range of AC/DC currents.
Fluxgate technology is also an option ... no experiences on that topic.

for 'one offs' I'd look at GMR sensors, readily available, like Hall
Effect, but only require around 1-2mA bias current.

GMR sensors seem promising, thaks for the nve.com link. I will remember
next time.


PS : No further trivial explanations for experienced engineers about
shunt sensors on large range currents (CMRR, lack of insulation, totally
un-rugged against IEC61000-4-5, -4-3, ...etc ...) ...a nightmare.

BR, Habib.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, 15 April 2014 23:29:36 UTC+10, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:02:17 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

You aren't a sceptic but rather an ignoramus, trying to put your own spin on stuff that you don't actually understand.

your case that I am an ignoramus is undercut by your frequent use of wikipedia!

How? I'm using wikipedia as the examples of the kind stuff that you should have looked up to cross-check the total rubbish that you have posted. I always read through wikipedia articles before I cite them, to make sure that they've got it right.

I've had a subscription to New Scientist for some thirty years now, and intermittent access to the original literature for rather longer. I'm not going to bother trying to find and cite the information that originally formed my opinions, and I know that wikipedia is reliable enough to demonstrate that you are terminally ill-informed (for which it wouldn't need to be anything like as reliable as it is).

--
Bill Soman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, 15 April 2014 23:25:11 UTC+10, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:40:31 AM UTC-4, Kennedy wrote:

snip

SSRI drugs, medical treatments, IPhone, IOT...

Homeopathy - this is hilarious stuff:

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2011/09/09/homeopathic-leak-threatens-catastrophe/

Yes, homeopathy is an obvious fraud, in the view of traditional science. There was a fellow in europe who claimed to have scientific proof for it, but he was faking data, as I remember.

More that his experimental design was total rubbish. He was deceiving himself as well as everybody else.

> I had an acquaintance, a woman who lived to the age of 100. When she was alive, I looked at her vitamin shelf, and it was all homeopathy!

Serious homeopathy does no harm.

> Homeopathy may belong in the area of "higher placebo effect." The nurses study, a landmark lifestyle-health study, showed that friends are more important than even smoking! And other studies show church-going has a big effect.

Human beings are social animals. If you don't have people to associate with - even if its only by phone and e-mail (there's a Finnish study that illustrates this) bits of your brain seem to shrivel.

> Friends are more important than diet or anything else!

In part because they point out that you are losing weight and ought to eat more, and better.

> Explain that, materialist scientists!

Very easily. Friends are the people who tell you that you ought to take that small skin cancer on your arm off to the doctor before it gets to be a fatal melanoma.

> When I see things like that, I am hesitant to dismiss homeopathy completely.

That's because you can't do joined up logic.

Freud said that the power of suggestion was the strongest psychological force.

I am at a loss to explain the effect of friends.

You couldn't explain your way out of a paper bag. Your enthusiasm for posting non-facts and your capacity for not finding out real facts makes you a basket case as far as explaining anything goes.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 19:26:01 -0700, RobertMacy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 15:09:57 -0700, Mike Perkins <spam@spam.com> wrote:

...snip....

Has anyone else been in the same situation and how did they overcome the
problem?



I once had my Drivers' License stolen, and since the format has changed to
3 full names, the Dept of Mot Veh. wouldn't mail it to me, must go in
person and reapply. Oh, need your SSN card, too, Who the heck has that
still, Ok, no problem, just go to the govt building and get a reissue, Ok,
but when I arrived at the building MUST have photo ID [Drivers' License]
in order to gain access to the building! Can't get in to get the SSN card
to get my photo ID, talk about a Catch 22!

We moved states a year or two ago, so had to get new DLs. Mine was no
big deal because I had the license from the other state, (non-Kenyan)
birth certificate, and my SS card. My wife had a bit of trouble
because all that wasn't good enough. Since she had changed names, she
also needed an original marriage license. She gave them the one the
Minister signed. Nope, not good enough. She needed the one from the
state. Fortunately, she found it or it would have been an 800mi trip
to get a copy. Thank you federal government.

 

[John Devereux]

"Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> writes:

"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote in message
news:liiqok$j04$1@dont-email.me...
In the real world, separate memory spaces for data and code is not /too/
bad, as long as read-only data is in the same memory space as read-write
data. (I don't mean you should be able to write over the read-only data
- it's fine for it to be protected in some way.) Harvard architecture
micros like the PICs and the AVRs are a serious pain to work with, and
the separate memory spaces means you have to jump through hoops to make
read-only data work. Slow, inefficient, and error-prone.

Regarding AVR8s at least, if you've only worked with them through GCC, I
understand that. The last time I tried to do something involved (a menu
datastructure stored in program memory), I found it was impossible to
convince the compiler that A connects to B to C to A, not to mention
trying to find what convoluted data type it wanted (is it a pointer to
data to PGM to..??!).

It was in fact always *possible*, but a real PITA as you say and it did
make it impossible to write in a general purpose way. The ARM cortex
parts are much nicer to work with.

<http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2031+204200&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=nucleo&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial>

What's that, $10 for a cortex M4 development system with a general
purpose JTAG/SWD debugger included. Add ARM GCC + openocd + eclipse and
you get a modern c/c++ development system, absolutely suitable for
professional use, for $10.

Kids of today...

[...]


--

John Devereux

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:01:24 UTC+10, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

Friends are more important than diet or anything else!

Explain that, materialist scientists!

When I see things like that, I am hesitant to dismiss homeopathy completely.

When you write that, I have no hesitation in dismissing you completely.

I don't blame you! Homeopathy is a hard pill to swallow! But so are the health benefits of networks of friends!

Homeopathy can't work. If you dilute your medicine enough that there's very little chance of a single molecule of the medicine being present in the medicine you take, it's game over.

The health benefits of having friends are a lot more real and obvious.

Someone said that intelligence is the ability to hold two differing ideas in
mind at the same time. In my defense, that is what I am forced to do in some
cases. In the case of Homeopathy, I just keep an open mind.

Intelligent people are expected to reconcile the two differing ideas. You don't seem to bother with that step.

> Quantum mechanics is a good example of what could be dismissed completely. It just violates ordinary principles of thought. It just rocks you back on your heels and forces you to admit your rational means of thought is worthless in some major respects.

Not exactly. Thinking that atoms and sub-atomic particles don't behave in quite the same way as large aggregates of atoms isn't irrational, and does give you useful insights into certain physical phenomena.

Dismissing it completely would make you useless as a spectroscopist ....

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:29:38 UTC+10, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

LIBERAL HOAX #3 - Carcinogens

I want to add the area of carcinogens in the environment. This piece of flim-flam is beloved of the government because they can "protect us" and make us passive in the face of a major threat. Centralized government is desperate to find a way to be useful, because it makes them look good, and maybe in some there is a twinge of guilt about their theft of money from the economy.

So insulate your roof with loose asbestos.

You'll get mesothelioma, and so will your kids, but not fast enough to get you out of the gene pool early enough to do any good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesothelioma

<snipped the rest of the pig-ignorant twaddle>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:22:58 UTC+10, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:45:39 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:29:38 PM UTC-4, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

LIBERAL HOAX #3 - Carcinogens

I want to add the area of carcinogens in the environment. This piece of flim-flam

Huh? Asbestos is nasty stuff.

<snip>

> well, yes, asbestos, but there is another 20,000 that are not. I was trying to zero in on the "cancer scare industry" in which carcinogens abound.

Care to name one of the 20,000 non-carcinogens which the cancer-scare industry has called a carcinogen?

> The best guy to listen to about this is Prof. Bruce Ames, originator of the "Ames Carcinogen test." He now says that all the dangerous carcinogens is just a bunch of bunk. (bruce ames yourtube) He is THE main man on carcinogens, and at age 80, says his life work (or that part of it - he did work on mitochondrial aging and aging in general which is very current.) -was mistaken.

Wrong. "He was concerned that overzealous attention to the relatively minor health effects of trace quantities of carcinogens may divert scarce financial resources away from major health risks, and cause public confusion about the relative importance of different hazards."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames

He isn't saying that there aren't any carcinogens around - rather that there are lots, many of them natural, and that getting too fussed about trace quantities of the less potent carcinogens can be a waste of time and a distraction from more serious health risks.

As usual, you have misunderstood the message.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 04/15/2014 12:26 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:17:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 04/15/2014 12:00 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, April 14, 2014 11:47:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

snip



More of your damned fool ignorance:



http://www.mmh.com/article/walkie_lift_trucks_a_good_walk_optimized

For the really out sized stuff, they just jack up one end of the pallet
and shove a wheel set under it.

Good luck pulling a 7500 pound load up the camber of the street
with a

manual truck. Or stopping it if it decides to go down.

It's motorized, Sherlock. And there are these things called *ramps*.
Forklifts are deigned for stacking, trucks are used for pulling on
the level.

Yeah, right. If anybody's going to be standing in the way when that
thing comes down a 20 degree ramp with four tons of metal on it, I'd
much rather it were you than me.

A good-sized forklift is the right tool for that job, for sure.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[panfilero]

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:20:31 AM UTC-5, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:57:11 -0700 (PDT), panfilero

@gmail.com> wrote:



I'm interested in sensing AC and DC currents, 0-8A nominally, but up to 160A for 10msec current surges from both AC and DC sources... I'm after the best resolution I can get... I don't know if it's possible to do this for both AC and DC off the same current sense circuit... I was thinking a shunt through a current sense amplifier then to an RMS to DC converter IC... but I'm not sure if this is the best approach... any suggestions?



much thanks!



Are you only measuring the 0-8A, and just tolerating the 160A surge,

or do you need to measure the 160A as well?



...Jim Thompson

--

| James E.Thompson | mens |

| Analog Innovations | et |

| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |

| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |

| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |

| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |



I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Measure the 160A surge as well... I'm thinking a shunt (2mOhm or so) with an isolated sigma delta converter right now....

like this guy:
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD7401A.pdf

 

[bud--]

On 4/15/2014 10:01 AM, haiticare2011@gmail.com wrote:

In the case of Homeopathy, I just keep an open mind.

Your open mind appears to have dribbled out and there is none left.

 

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:53:49 +0100, Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 14/04/2014 06:56, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:54:39 +1000, Sylvia Else
sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

At the time of its creation, both memory and CPU time were expensive. It
wasn't practical to specify the language in a way that ensured bounds
checking because of the memory and time costs involved.

In the 1970's i wrote a lot of programs for 16 bit mini computers
using FORTRAN IV, which only had tables and indexes, no pointers or
character strings. At least some compilers had the option to generate
run time index checks. This was usually employed during product
development, but turned off in the shipped product.

Actually it did have pointers but FORTRAN programmers tended not to be
aware of them.

What exactly are you referring to ?

Since all parameters were passed by reference, you could do a lot of
pointer like operations in the subroutine.

The lack of any strong typing meant that an inordinate
amount of time was wasted by physicists calling NAGLIB routines that
expected 8 byte DOUBLE PRECISION REAL arrays with 4 byte REAL ones.

Nothing special compared to void pointers in C.

SUBROUTINE SWAP(I,J)
K=I
I=J
J=K
RETURN
END

Without any other definitions, I, J and K are integers.

When called with arguments like SIN and COS could have very interesting
side effects on subsequent use of trig functions. A pointer to an array
of unknown length was declared by convention as length 1 eg.

INTEGER TRICKY(1)´

Isn't this also done in C as well, if someone wants to avoid the
pointer syntax for some reason ?

FORTRAN IV did not have any string data type, so you had to write your
own string library using byte arrays (or in the worst case integer
arrays). It was as primitive as C. The only difference is that C
provides ready made string subroutine library (strcpy etc.).

It did have character arrays but only a handful of custom dialects
allowed easy string manifest constants in quotes. 6HSTRING was always
portable but heaven help you if you miscounted the string length.

The Hollerith notation might have been usable in a FORMAT statement
for constant strings, but the portability in general is quite
questionable.

You might be able to store some characters into a _single_ integer,
but depending of the size of integer, it could hold six 6 bit
Hollerith characters on a 36 bit machines or four 7-8 characters in a
32 bit word. I do not remember, if five 7 bit characters were stored
in a 36 bit word (any DECsystem 10/20 specialists here) ?

It would after F66 let you assign Hollerith character constants to
arrays in DATA statement. I think this illustrates my point perfectly.

PROGRAM HELLO
C
INTEGER IHWSTR(3)
DATA IHWSTR/4HHELL,4HO WO,3HRLD/
C
WRITE (6,100) IHWSTR
STOP
100 FORMAT (3A4)
END

I have no idea for what platform the F66 was designed for, but at
least on 36 bit platform, you could either store six 6 bit characters
(uppercase letter, digits, punctuation) in A6 or 7-9 bit characters
(including lower case etc.) in A4.

>Believe it or not that was an improvement on what went before!

At least the DEC Fortran IV plus supported sensible string constants
in FORMAT statements.

The lack of reserved words made the language interesting with the
Chinese usage.

A far more ugly thing for compiler writers was that you could insert
spaces wherever you wanted. Thus

V A RIAB LE = 12. 3 4 5

is equivalent to

VARIABLE=12.345

Trying to detect pseudo "reserved words" is a bit nasty.

 

[Fred Bartoli]

Le Tue, 15 Apr 2014 07:20:31 -0700, Jim Thompson a ĂŠcrit:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:57:11 -0700 (PDT), panfilero
panfilero@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm interested in sensing AC and DC currents, 0-8A nominally, but up to
160A for 10msec current surges from both AC and DC sources... I'm after
the best resolution I can get... I don't know if it's possible to do
this for both AC and DC off the same current sense circuit... I was
thinking a shunt through a current sense amplifier then to an RMS to DC
converter IC... but I'm not sure if this is the best approach... any
suggestions?

much thanks!

Are you only measuring the 0-8A, and just tolerating the 160A surge,
or do you need to measure the 160A as well?

Yup, that's the right question ;-)


--
Thanks,
Fred.

 

[Jon Elson]

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

visited a pcb facture many years ago looked like the base plate for the
drilling machine was basically a +20cm thick slab of granite

Yup, I have some parts off an Excellon PCB drill. The base was a slab
of granite about 1.5 m square and about the same as you mention, 20cm
or so thick. The table weighted just ounces and rode on air bearings.

Jon

 

[George Herold]

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:21:46 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:22:58 UTC+10, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:45:39 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:



On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:29:38 PM UTC-4, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:



LIBERAL HOAX #3 - Carcinogens



I want to add the area of carcinogens in the environment. This piece of flim-flam



Huh? Asbestos is nasty stuff.



snip



well, yes, asbestos, but there is another 20,000 that are not. I was trying to zero in on the "cancer scare industry" in which carcinogens abound.



Care to name one of the 20,000 non-carcinogens which the cancer-scare industry has called a carcinogen?



The best guy to listen to about this is Prof. Bruce Ames, originator of the "Ames Carcinogen test." He now says that all the dangerous carcinogens is just a bunch of bunk. (bruce ames yourtube) He is THE main man on carcinogens, and at age 80, says his life work (or that part of it - he did work on mitochondrial aging and aging in general which is very current.) -was mistaken.



Wrong. "He was concerned that overzealous attention to the relatively minor health effects of trace quantities of carcinogens may divert scarce financial resources away from major health risks, and cause public confusion about the relative importance of different hazards."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames



He isn't saying that there aren't any carcinogens around - rather that there are lots, many of them natural, and that getting too fussed about trace quantities of the less potent carcinogens can be a waste of time and a distraction from more serious health risks.



As usual, you have misunderstood the message.



--

Bill Sloman, Sydney

Thanks Bill, that's well said. I know nothing about carcinogen detection,
But it reminds me of nuclear radiation.
To the general public, if scientist's can measure it, it must be dangerous.

George H.