Do you think splicing 100' of wire onto a GTO exit wand woul

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:26:57 -0500, mm
<NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>wrote:

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
dcdraftworks@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:39:31 -0500, PeterD wrote:

3M makes underground splice kits that may work
(used primarily for telco work).

Great idea! If it works for the telephone company, it should work here.

No. Soldering is better. The phone company doesn't want to spend the
time it takes to solder each connection, up to hundreds a day, and it
has a staff to go fix problems when they develop, as well as
electronic tools to find the break in a wire, by injecting a signal at
one end if necessary.

Hey please stop cross posting this bullshit to SER.

Thanks.

 

[PeterD]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:29:00 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:37:48 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
dcdraftworks@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:34:56 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy wrote:

So now the problem just is finding the 4-conductor 16AWG shielded cable and
the 3M splice kit in a store somewhere around here.

You originally said 5 conductor, now you say 4 conductor. ??

There are actually 5 connections, but one of them is the shield which I
don't think the 3M product handles.

The 5 connections are at the gate control box but only 4 insulated wires
are inside the wire. The installation instructions for the exit wand tell
you to twist the end of the fifth shield together and wire nut it to the
battery.

So the wires aren't individually shielded, you're saying?

So now I'm thinking just about any four conductor wire, stranded so it
will be sufficiently flexible, will be enough.

I'd be looking for some shielded CAT5 (STP) stranded wire, which
shouldwork OK. I've got the cable the OP wants, but I suspect he's a
long ways from me!

 

[Dean Hoffman]

I have to find the 4-wire multi-stranded shielded cable first ... but I
will try the splice kit at the same time if I can find that also.

The wire sounds like two pair direct burial phone line. We use it

on irrigation systems. Have you tried the local telephone company?

 

[mm]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:19:25 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

No. Soldering is better. The phone company doesn't want to spend the
time it takes to solder each connection, up to hundreds a day, and it
has a staff to go fix problems when they develop, as well as
electronic tools to find the break in a wire, by injecting a signal at
one end if necessary.

Hey please stop cross posting this bullshit to SER.

The trouble is, we don't know which group the OP is reading. We
don't know which group gets the "post" and which gets the cross post.

I used to say which group I was posting from when I crosspostd, but no
one else seems to think of that.

>Thanks.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Dean Hoffman wrote:

I have to find the 4-wire multi-stranded shielded cable first ... but I
will try the splice kit at the same time if I can find that also.

The wire sounds like two pair direct burial phone line. We use it
on irrigation systems. Have you tried the local telephone company?

Direct burial telephone wire is solid, not stranded. It is usually
thinner, like 22 gauge as well.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

 

[mm]

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:10:23 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
<dcdraftworks@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:01:38 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I have to find the 4-wire multi-stranded shielded cable

The wire sounds like two pair direct burial phone line. We use it
on irrigation systems. Have you tried the local telephone company?

Interesting. I don't know if the local phone company sells to people, but I
can ask.

They sold to our organization once. Those half-round plastic tubes
(half-tubes) 8 feet long that they use. But we had a more
comprehensive arrangement with them before hand. And we had to buy a
box at a time, maybe 100 per box.

Four conductor shielded wire shoudlnt' be easy to get.

In addition, what I said in another post, if you have a half inch with
no shielding, I doubt it matters. Or you can take 2 or 3 inches from
your 100 foot piece, and remove the shielding from that and wrap it
around the splice area. Soldering it at both ends would be optimal.
But it's not like there will be big metal things running over the
splice area inducing the gate to open. Even bicycles are less likely
to ride on the lawn than on the driveway.

 

[Dan Lanciani]

In article <5e7f9a4682f97492d5b48c5e8369ea46@tioat.net>, dcdraftworks@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid (Elmo) writes:

| Do you think I can find a 4-conductor shielded 16 AWG cable splice kit at
| ACE, OSH, or Home Depot? (I'll try later today.)

I doubt it.

Here is the kit I used to splice the cable to a similar vehicle detection
wand about 15 years ago. It has worked fine since:

http://www.homecontrols.com/Winland-Vehicle-Alert-Cable-Splice-Kit-WL1082

Note that this was just the first Google hit and you may be able to find
it as a Winland product for less. Moreover, Winland probably doesn't
actually make it so you might find a generic for even less again.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

 

[mm]

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:10:55 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
<dcdraftworks@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:55:51 -0500, mm wrote:


she said the problem is that it will eventually break.

No, it won't. Not if it's soldered correctly.
Have you soldered much?

I have a propane torch, a smaller butane torch with soldering tips, and the

I like an electric soldering iron for soldering wires. It's not like
soldering metal gutters.

Weller soldering station. I'm not all that good (I always seem to melt the
solder instead of heating the wires) but I'd consider myself ok with
solder.

After 40 years I often melt the solder directly, but if you make sure
it's hot before taking away the soldering iron, it's fine.

Of course you'll know where it is. It will be 50 feet from where you
buried the wand. And about 100 feet from where the controller is.

I could also look for an electrical connection type box (like the ones
used with the water sprinklers) and that way it would be obvious to all,
even any new owners.

I wouldn't bother.

Now, if you don't have an connector on the end of the wire,
you could use heat-shrink tubing,
I think the scotch 23, silicone tape will do a much better job.

I think I'll solder in a compatible wire after finding that scotch 23 in a
local hardware store. My home depot didn't have it.

http://www.rshughes.com/products/054007_13061.html?ref=g&refcp=froogle

Some other websites had 50 or 100 roll minimums!

BTW, are you near powerlines? Most places aren't but a few are.

Yes There are overhead power lines. Why do you ask?

The docs mentioned power lines. but if they are overhead they are
probably too far away to matter.

 

[Elmo]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:01:38 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I have to find the 4-wire multi-stranded shielded cable

The wire sounds like two pair direct burial phone line. We use it
on irrigation systems. Have you tried the local telephone company?

Interesting. I don't know if the local phone company sells to people, but I
can ask.

 

[Elmo]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:55:51 -0500, mm wrote:

she said the problem is that it will eventually break.

No, it won't. Not if it's soldered correctly.
Have you soldered much?

I have a propane torch, a smaller butane torch with soldering tips, and the
Weller soldering station. I'm not all that good (I always seem to melt the
solder instead of heating the wires) but I'd consider myself ok with
solder.

Of course you'll know where it is. It will be 50 feet from where you
buried the wand. And about 100 feet from where the controller is.

I could also look for an electrical connection type box (like the ones
used with the water sprinklers) and that way it would be obvious to all,
even any new owners.

Now, if you don't have an connector on the end of the wire,
you could use heat-shrink tubing,
I think the scotch 23, silicone tape will do a much better job.

I think I'll solder in a compatible wire after finding that scotch 23 in a
local hardware store. My home depot didn't have it.

BTW, are you near powerlines? Most places aren't but a few are.

Yes There are overhead power lines. Why do you ask?

 

[Elmo]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:16:34 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Direct burial telephone wire is solid, not stranded.
It is usually thinner, like 22 gauge as well.

I wonder if it matters. What is the fundamental difference between how a
solid wire acts versus multi-stranded wire in this type of low voltage
(8-32v) and very low current (1.5ma) application?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

This has gone on long enough.

As is true of most companies, the company selling this product is unable to
give factual, useful information to the customer. (What else is new?) There
is no reason why the people in this group -- or any other group -- should be
obliged to make up for its failure to do so.

It seems to me that the manufacturer should have supplied information about
selecting the appropriate length of cable, according to the vehicle, the
vehicle owner's needs, etc. It apparently did not. If the customer makes a
mistake, then the company should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, as I've suggested.

If the company won't, then the owner has no recourse but to purchase a new
cable or sensor-wand system.

I don't see why this group should be expected to analyze an unfamiliar
product and provide useful troubeshooting/modification/repair information,
when the manufacturer won't. This problem cannot be new to the company. It
ought to have some mechanism in place for resovling such issues. Apparently,
it is too stupid to.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION

I just spoke with a customer-service rep at GTO.

He said that they care about their customers and want them to be happy. You
should return the wand to GTO to confirm that it's working correctly. If you
need a longer cable, they will make some accommodation (he didn't say what,
and I didn't press him) so that you can have the longer cable.

Sometimes it's just a matter of knowing how to present your problem.

I hope this resolves it.

 

[PeterD]

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:43:33 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

This has gone on long enough.

As is true of most companies, the company selling this product is unable to
give factual, useful information to the customer. (What else is new?) There
is no reason why the people in this group -- or any other group -- should be
obliged to make up for its failure to do so.

It seems to me that the manufacturer should have supplied information about
selecting the appropriate length of cable, according to the vehicle, the
vehicle owner's needs, etc. It apparently did not. If the customer makes a
mistake, then the company should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, as I've suggested.

If the company won't, then the owner has no recourse but to purchase a new
cable or sensor-wand system.

I don't see why this group should be expected to analyze an unfamiliar
product and provide useful troubeshooting/modification/repair information,
when the manufacturer won't. This problem cannot be new to the company. It
ought to have some mechanism in place for resovling such issues. Apparently,
it is too stupid to.

I don't see the company at fault in the initial purchase. Also, only
slightly at fault for conflicting advice from the telephone operator
on splicing (which differed from the technician's advice, which is
what I'd consider the be the accurate one...)

If you think that companies should cover all their customer's errors
and mistakes then I'd suggest you start a company and make that a
feature of your operation. Maybe you'll have great success. But my
experience, as a business man, has been that some people make errors,
and it makes little sense to expect someone else to pay for their
errors.

As to not seeing 'why this group should...' realize that is the reason
this group exists! After all, it is not called
'alt.home.repair.get.maker.to.replace.it' or
'sci.electroncs.leverage.the.company'. We concentrated on repairing
the problem. Not trying to figure a way or justification to make the
supplier (who did nothing wrong) to replace a product that was not
defective or flawed.

 

[PeterD]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:00:31 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:19:25 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:


No. Soldering is better. The phone company doesn't want to spend the
time it takes to solder each connection, up to hundreds a day, and it
has a staff to go fix problems when they develop, as well as
electronic tools to find the break in a wire, by injecting a signal at
one end if necessary.

Hey please stop cross posting this bullshit to SER.

The trouble is, we don't know which group the OP is reading. We
don't know which group gets the "post" and which gets the cross post.

I used to say which group I was posting from when I crosspostd, but no
one else seems to think of that.

Thanks.

Please don't feed meathead the troll. He offers no advice just a total
waste of bandwidth trolling for his 15 seconds of fame.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I don't see the company at fault in the initial purchase. Also, only
slightly at fault for conflicting advice from the telephone operator
on splicing (which differed from the technician's advice, which is
what I'd consider the be the accurate one...)

If you think that companies should cover all their customer's errors
and mistakes then I'd suggest you start a company and make that
a feature of your operation.

I don't. But I think it should make an effort.

See the posting "GTO wand problem resolved (???)". I might have solved the
problem.

 

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:24:13 -0500, PeterD <peter2@hipson.net>wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:00:31 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:19:25 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:


No. Soldering is better. The phone company doesn't want to spend the
time it takes to solder each connection, up to hundreds a day, and it
has a staff to go fix problems when they develop, as well as
electronic tools to find the break in a wire, by injecting a signal at
one end if necessary.

Hey please stop cross posting this bullshit to SER.

The trouble is, we don't know which group the OP is reading. We
don't know which group gets the "post" and which gets the cross post.

I used to say which group I was posting from when I crosspostd, but no
one else seems to think of that.

Thanks.

Please don't feed meathead the troll. He offers no advice just a total
waste of bandwidth trolling for his 15 seconds of fame.

Blow it out your ass you incessant babbling assclown.
You fucking idiots have run this topic into the ground
like a bunch off nattering old cunts. In reality you fuckheads
are the trolls, not I and I contribute where I can. Just happens my
contribution to this beaten into the ground thread is for you to end
the cross post and argue about this silly ass bullshit in AHR. If you
don't like it shove it up your fucking fart-valve.

And if you think I care enough about fame in the eyes of
fuckwitted turds like you and the rest of these nattering nincompoops
You are woefully mistaken.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:43:51 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Why has no one paid attention to my suggestion?

Because everyone is too busy writing one line answers to read what you
posted.

There are currently 47 messages in this thread, which is a bit much to
read. I've only read about half, with nothing really interesting
(except my own postings).

Get the manufacturer to give you full credit towards a longer cable.

That would be too easy, obvious, no fun, doesn't involve repair,
lacking in entertainment value, and not much of a learning experience.
I also assumed that he's already tried to do that.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:40:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Get the manufacturer to give you full credit towards a longer cable.

Why? They OP decided to buy the particular length and didn't indicate
they were misled.

True. But the cabling is not horribly expensive. The company should do this
out of "common courtesy".

The pickup coil and cabling appear to be a matched set where the cable
is an integral part of the tuned circuit. However, at $200 for a coil
and roll of cable, I would think there would be sufficient profit to
allow for an ocassional courtesy exchange. Whether courtesy is all
that common is debatable as companies that have liberal return
policies tend to have it abused and overused.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The pickup coil and cabling appear to be a matched set where
the cable is an integral part of the tuned circuit. However, at
$200 for a coil and roll of cable, I would think there would be
sufficient profit to allow for an ocassional courtesy exchange.
Whether courtesy is all that common is debatable as companies
that have liberal return policies tend to have it abused and overused.

GTO has told me that if the OP contacts them, and returns the original wand
for a checkout (and it's working correctly), they will make some sort of
accommodation, because they want happy customers.

I've stated this in another posting in this thread.