copper crisis?...

[a a]

On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 15:02:01 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 10:17:56 PM UTC+10, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:09:50 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
gathering too.
If you go to the trouble of setting up a grid system. Stick a battery bank next to you solar cells and/or windmill and you need a much smaller grid,and less wire.
The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.
Long runs tend to be cheaper if you convert to higher voltage and lower current for the long run, and convert back down again at the point of use. The utility companies having been doing this for a century or so now.
In India, they make TVs, computers and kitchen utilities that operate
from 48 Vdc. These are intended for small local village nets driven by
solar panels (e.g. four 12 V panels). This avoids much of the DC/AC/DC
conversion losses.
The main point is that telephone systems used to be set up around a stack of four 12V lead-acid cells, so 48V is a kind of industry standard. Lead acid cells aren\'t as good as lithium ion cells, but if you can sell good old-fashioned lead acid batteries why spend time and energy on offering a better system?

Individual solar cells produce a roughly hyperbolic current versus voltage curve. You get maximum power by operating at about 0.46V.

You can stack 36 of them to get an array that will charge a 12V lead acid battery. Running a smaller number into an inverter and using mark-to-space modulation to tweak the voltage step-up can let you get close to optimal performance, but that takes design work.

People tend to avoid doing that, if they can get away without it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--individual solar cells produce a roughly hyperbolic current versus voltage curve. You get maximum power by operating at about 0.46V.

Solar cell - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell

Individual solar cell devices are often the electrical building blocks of photovoltaic modules, known colloquially as solar panels. The common single junction silicon solar cell can produce a maximum open-circuit voltage of approximately 0.5 volts to 0.6 volts.

so for 60-cell solar panel I get 30V nominal output

 

[boB]

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 13:28:03 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
<jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 20:28:00 UTC+1, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.
A traditional approach is to silver-plate the copper. Silver is
cheaper than gold too.

Joe Gwinn

At microwave frequencies plated silver often has worse conductivity than copper.
The surface finish of the plating tends to be irregular which increases the length
of the surface.

John

Interesting ! And makes sense with waveguide being so smooth and all.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
google \'cantenna\'.

For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.

Aren\'t copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
wind my own.

What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

 

[server]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
google \'cantenna\'.

For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


Aren\'t copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
wind my own.

What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It\'s for aircraft equipment
testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
alternators get into the mid audio range.

I\'ll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

The Pockels Cell driver was SiC.

 

[John S]

On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote:

On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385


Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to
adapt.

Or some genius will notice something we\'ve been overlooking.

Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

Like we\'ve been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

John :-#)#

We\'ve been mining the asteroids? When? Which one?

 

[Martin Brown]

On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one

They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:

https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-created-diamonds/

Not that long ago the only colour of synthetic diamond was yellow since
they couldn\'t prevent nitrogen impurities getting in but today you can
have most any colour you like including water clear.

Technology for making them is not unlike some semiconductor processes
but with rather more aggressive conditions!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[rbowman]

On 07/18/2022 09:58 AM, John S wrote:

On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote:

On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385


Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have
to adapt.

Or some genius will notice something we\'ve been overlooking.

Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

Like we\'ve been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

John :-#)#

We\'ve been mining the asteroids? When? Which one?

https://www.cnet.com/pictures/swords-from-the-stars-weapons-forged-from-meteoric-iron/6/

Sort of...

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:

On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds..



There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one
They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:

and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
isn\'t quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
so you can tell it is synthetic

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 16.08.01 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
pth8dh1osgj6lsgki...@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
google \'cantenna\'.

For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


Aren\'t copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
wind my own.

What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?
My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It\'s for aircraft equipment
testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
alternators get into the mid audio range.

I\'ll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

how happy are they in linear mode? the datasheet SOA doesn\'t show DC

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:07:50 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<brpadh1iiiht69se2thu7vb46bbbv37vvr@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
google \'cantenna\'.

For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


Aren\'t copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
wind my own.

What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It\'s for aircraft equipment
testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
alternators get into the mid audio range.

OK that thing, I thought you mentioned GHz

>I\'ll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

Impressive specs..
Yes downloaded the datasheet, Ciss is a bit too big for GHz
RthJC is .28 max...
That by itself at 446 W is alrady 116 degrees C..

The Pockels Cell driver was SiC.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 16.08.01 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
pth8dh1osgj6lsgki...@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
google \'cantenna\'.

For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


Aren\'t copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
wind my own.

What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?
My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It\'s for aircraft equipment
testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
alternators get into the mid audio range.

I\'ll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

how happy are they in linear mode? the datasheet SOA doesn\'t show DC

Yeah, switcher-rated fets can blow up at low power in linear mode.
This one is good for a kilowatt dissipation for 10 ms, and we\'ll be
running at 100 watts max DC per fet. It might be prudent to limit the
peak voltage to 250 maybe to keep low in the SOAR.

We\'ll test it for sure. Our FPGA will snoop voltage and current pretty
often so it can protect the fets.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nxm7m2q3j3buvc/ExFets.jpg?raw=1

We filled a coffee cup with blown-up fets when we designed our big NMR
gradient driver.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:39:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:07:50 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
brpadh1iiiht69se2thu7vb46bbbv37vvr@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"


I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
google \'cantenna\'.

For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


Aren\'t copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
wind my own.

What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It\'s for aircraft equipment
testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
alternators get into the mid audio range.

OK that thing, I thought you mentioned GHz

I\'ll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

Impressive specs..
Yes downloaded the datasheet, Ciss is a bit too big for GHz
RthJC is .28 max...
That by itself at 446 W is alrady 116 degrees C..

We\'ll have 4 fets on the CPU cooler. In DC mode, each fet will
dissipate 100 watts max. Dumping power from an AC source, each
dissipates 50 watts.

The decision to make is, how hot can we allow the cooler to get? 75C?
95C? That determines our max power spec, which is still TBD.

The cooler itself seems to be about 0.25 K/W at max fan speed.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

I call bullshit on this, same with any other weird future crisis. None of the claims are anything but
laughable. I like the \"data processing and storage\" theory of where all the copper is going now.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
compact and need less wire volume. Copper\'s ductility, however,
and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

\"Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade...\"

These are cool:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

How can they wind that inductor?

You can edgewind copper strip. Copper is one of the best examples of malleable that there is.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one
They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
isn\'t quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
so you can tell it is synthetic

I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:09:33 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown wrote:

On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

<snip>

There are plenty of diamonds. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one.

They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
isn\'t quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
so you can tell it is synthetic.

The local newspaper did a commercial puff for diamond jewellery and claimed that al the vapour deposited synthetic stones were laser-marked.

> I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

Sounds plausible but built-in features would be easier and cheaper to find.

Natural C-14 shows up at the the roughly one part per trillion level, so you have to volatilise a trillion C-12 atoms to see just one C-14 atom in freshly photosynthesised carbon-containing compound. This still isn\'t all that much, but you are looking for needle in a haystack.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Martin Brown wrote:

On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of
diamonds.



There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one
They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
isn\'t quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
so you can tell it is synthetic

I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

Nah, you just make the new ones out of coal.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:19:24 PM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of
diamonds.



There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one

They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
isn\'t quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
so you can tell it is synthetic

I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

Nah, you just make the new ones out of coal.

IIRR you grow gem quaiity diamonds by plasma enhanced chemical vapour deposition, from a stream of hydrogen and methane (mainly hydrogen). Natural gas is mostly methane, and it\'s spent long enough underground to be just as short of C-14 as coal. Turning coal into methane would be a waste of effort.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Les Cargill]

rbowman wrote:

On 07/18/2022 09:58 AM, John S wrote:
On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote:

On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385



Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have
to adapt.

Or some genius will notice something we\'ve been overlooking.

Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

Like we\'ve been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

John :-#)#

We\'ve been mining the asteroids? When? Which one?

https://www.cnet.com/pictures/swords-from-the-stars-weapons-forged-from-meteoric-iron/6/


Sort of...

Ah, the Terry Pratchett sword. Great story.

--
Les Cargill

 

[none]

In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

and convinced people that \"used\" diamonds are not good enough,
you have to get a new one
They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
isn\'t quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
so you can tell it is synthetic

I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
The propaganda to use \"real\" diamonds faces a loosing battle.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

--
\"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol\" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst