Convenience über alles!...

[Clifford Heath]

On 2/6/22 09:53, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:28:04 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 07:08, bitrex wrote:
On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/


Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I still remember the 5:30AM clip-clop of the horse-drawn milkcart and
the clink of glass bottles as the milkman called Whoooah or g\'up to the
horse to keep pace. It wasn\'t a noise that woke me, or an unpleasant
sound if I was awake already.

Clifford Heath.

My dad was a milkman. I used to help him run his route on Saturday,
starting about 4 AM.

He said that he was really teaching me to work hard in school so I
wouldn\'t be stuck in a job like his. It worked.

Well done by your Dad. It clearly did you good too, it would have been a
hard life. I respect folk that can do that kind of service work. A
school-friend ran behind a garbage truck carrying and emptying bins for
six months before he started his PhD in Ag Sci. As well as him becoming
incredibly strong, it has had lifelong health benefits.

I assume horses weren\'t used in the crazy-steep parts of San Francisco.
I wonder how milk was delivered there?

CH

 

[Don Y]

On 6/1/2022 6:48 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 06/01/2022 02:37 AM, Don Y wrote:
OTOH, *storing* a car was always tedious -- esp if you didn\'t have a
driveway
or parking area set aside for your use (on both ends of the trip).

When I worked direct for a company in Cambridge and got restless we had the
\'what would it take to keep you?\' conversation. My answer was a card for the
indoor parking garage. They had a uncontrolled lot down the street but I was
driving a Firebird. They had a bad way of going missing in Boston.

A neighbor has hid stolen -- out of his driveway -- twice. Recovered both
times but the second recovery it was trashed.

A friend went through two Healey 3000\'s that were stolen and got sick of the
hassle so he bought a Volvo sedan. That got stolen too but at least that one
was recovered.

Increasingly, I am annoyed with \"travel\". A waste of time with too many
potential unexpected surprises (theft, vandalism, damage, breakdown, etc.).

And, car *ownership* brings along its own set of issues (maintenance, theft,
etc.). Plus the whole issue of shopping for replacements...

I suspect there may be a market for a hybrid rental approach; let someone
else own the vehicles and you choose how much you want to \"cling\" to one...
\"just for this trip across town\" vs. \"I want it waiting for me in the morning\"
Being able to walk away from any \"problems\" has a certain appeal!

[But, I\'m getting old and impatient with \"needless wastes of time\"]

There is a scale problem with vehicles. How can you justify telling some
portion of the (world) population that they can\'t have one? For that
reason, I can\'t see electric vehicles being anything more than a transitional
phase. Imagine replacing EVERY gas guzzler with an EV and having folks
*keep* those vehicles (operational!) for 10, 20, 30 years.

There\'s very little cost to *keeping* extra vehicles when all you have
to do is put Stabil in the tank (or drain it). How do you keep a
spare EV -- and ensure that it remains driveable (without becoming a
slave to that possession)?

A gas guzzler can sit for a decade and resume service with the introduction
of fuel. The *mechanism* doesn\'t degrade while being stored (within reason).
Do you pull the battery from your EV while it\'s not being driven? (\"drain
the tank\") How do you maintain it in that state -- trade it in for cash?
A gas tank doesn\'t need any special care (if drained) to be usable years later!

[I don\'t know any winter visitors who drive EVs to ask them how they
\"store\" their vehicle for 6 months of the year. And, the few EV drivers
that I know don\'t seem to be happy with any of their purchases (replacing
them every year or two with different makes/models) to shed any light]

\"Beam me up (over), Scotty!\" All I need is to be able to carry a bit
of \"stuff\" for the trip! (or, send it along AFTER me...!)

 

[rbowman]

On 06/01/2022 10:49 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 2/6/22 09:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:28:04 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 07:08, bitrex wrote:
On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/



Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I still remember the 5:30AM clip-clop of the horse-drawn milkcart and
the clink of glass bottles as the milkman called Whoooah or g\'up to the
horse to keep pace. It wasn\'t a noise that woke me, or an unpleasant
sound if I was awake already.

Clifford Heath.

My dad was a milkman. I used to help him run his route on Saturday,
starting about 4 AM.

He said that he was really teaching me to work hard in school so I
wouldn\'t be stuck in a job like his. It worked.

Well done by your Dad. It clearly did you good too, it would have been a
hard life. I respect folk that can do that kind of service work. A
school-friend ran behind a garbage truck carrying and emptying bins for
six months before he started his PhD in Ag Sci. As well as him becoming
incredibly strong, it has had lifelong health benefits.

I assume horses weren\'t used in the crazy-steep parts of San Francisco.
I wonder how milk was delivered there?

CH

The story is Hallidie started the cable car system after seeing a
horrendous wreck when a horse slipped on wet cobblestones and the whole
team and wagon slid down to the bottom of the hill.

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 5:24:17 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 5/31/2022 10:40 PM, rbowman wrote:

\"There is no birthright to transportation, other than the right to
walk.\"

Then again, nobody ASKED to be born into a country called the USA that
was designed around the automobile and had much of its public
transportation infrastructure dismantled in favor a long time ago.

No. The USA was \"designed around\" horses and mules and canoes and
sailing ships and wagons. People like to move themselves and their
stuff around. If anything designed our country, it was the collective
personal preferences.

The roads in many areas of Boston tend to be laid out about where the
carts went, there doesn\'t seem to be a lot of design to it though.

When you start with a town square that really is an irregular pentagon
things go to hell in a hurry. Then you have to remember the Back Bay
really was a bay and the Fens a tidal marsh. Even the Fens got redone
when they dammed the Charles and it went from brackish to fresh water.

It adds charm. I enjoyed walking around the town when I had work in the
area. \'Walking is the operant word. I\'d drive down from NH Sunday night
and park the car, only retrieving it to drive home Friday afternoon.
The \"charm\" also then tends to mean nobody wants anything built in or
near their charming neighborhood.

Housing in San Francisco and Boston proper is a terrible value for what
you get, this $448/month unit in Tokyo (also some of the most expensive
real estate in the world) is fantastic for the rent.

https://youtu.be/ooh1aoEJKZc?t=732


You\'d be hard-pressed to find anything as nice within the Boston city
limits for three times the price.

Yeah, we got both kinds of water, hot *and* cold!

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 5:08:20 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/


Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.
Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I used to live in a house that became adjacent to commercial. The trash truck would come and BAM, BAM, BAM at the gas stations, ROAR, ROAR, ROAR as it moved to the next place, then BAM, BAM, BAM, lather, rinse, repeat. I seem to be able to sleep through that mostly, but if I was just getting to sleep, a half hour later I might be able to get back to sleep.

I thought about getting a trash truck and making that sort of noise in front of the mayor\'s house.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:49:59 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

On 2/6/22 09:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:28:04 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 07:08, bitrex wrote:
On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/


Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I still remember the 5:30AM clip-clop of the horse-drawn milkcart and
the clink of glass bottles as the milkman called Whoooah or g\'up to the
horse to keep pace. It wasn\'t a noise that woke me, or an unpleasant
sound if I was awake already.

Clifford Heath.

My dad was a milkman. I used to help him run his route on Saturday,
starting about 4 AM.

He said that he was really teaching me to work hard in school so I
wouldn\'t be stuck in a job like his. It worked.

Well done by your Dad. It clearly did you good too, it would have been a
hard life. I respect folk that can do that kind of service work. A
school-friend ran behind a garbage truck carrying and emptying bins for
six months before he started his PhD in Ag Sci. As well as him becoming
incredibly strong, it has had lifelong health benefits.

I assume horses weren\'t used in the crazy-steep parts of San Francisco.
I wonder how milk was delivered there?

CH

That was in New Orleans, almost optically flat.

I\'m NOT so old as to remember milk being delivered by horses.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 23:45:20 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 06/01/2022 10:49 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 2/6/22 09:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:28:04 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 07:08, bitrex wrote:
On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/



Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I still remember the 5:30AM clip-clop of the horse-drawn milkcart and
the clink of glass bottles as the milkman called Whoooah or g\'up to the
horse to keep pace. It wasn\'t a noise that woke me, or an unpleasant
sound if I was awake already.

Clifford Heath.

My dad was a milkman. I used to help him run his route on Saturday,
starting about 4 AM.

He said that he was really teaching me to work hard in school so I
wouldn\'t be stuck in a job like his. It worked.

Well done by your Dad. It clearly did you good too, it would have been a
hard life. I respect folk that can do that kind of service work. A
school-friend ran behind a garbage truck carrying and emptying bins for
six months before he started his PhD in Ag Sci. As well as him becoming
incredibly strong, it has had lifelong health benefits.

I assume horses weren\'t used in the crazy-steep parts of San Francisco.
I wonder how milk was delivered there?

CH

The story is Hallidie started the cable car system after seeing a
horrendous wreck when a horse slipped on wet cobblestones and the whole
team and wagon slid down to the bottom of the hill.

If you are in SF make sure to ride the Hyde Street line. Don\'t sit,
hang outside.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 17:24:08 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/31/2022 10:40 PM, rbowman wrote:

\"There is no birthright to transportation, other than the right to
walk.\"

Then again, nobody ASKED to be born into a country called the USA that
was designed around the automobile and had much of its public
transportation infrastructure dismantled in favor a long time ago.

No. The USA was \"designed around\" horses and mules and canoes and
sailing ships and wagons. People like to move themselves and their
stuff around. If anything designed our country, it was the collective
personal preferences.

The roads in many areas of Boston tend to be laid out about where the
carts went, there doesn\'t seem to be a lot of design to it though.

When you start with a town square that really is an irregular pentagon
things go to hell in a hurry. Then you have to remember the Back Bay
really was a bay and the Fens a tidal marsh. Even the Fens got redone
when they dammed the Charles and it went from brackish to fresh water.

It adds charm. I enjoyed walking around the town when I had work in the
area. \'Walking is the operant word. I\'d drive down from NH Sunday night
and park the car, only retrieving it to drive home Friday afternoon.


The \"charm\" also then tends to mean nobody wants anything built in or
near their charming neighborhood.

Housing in San Francisco and Boston proper is a terrible value for what
you get, this $448/month unit in Tokyo (also some of the most expensive
real estate in the world) is fantastic for the rent.

https://youtu.be/ooh1aoEJKZc?t=732


You\'d be hard-pressed to find anything as nice within the Boston city
limits for three times the price.

People who want to live in SF or Boston bid up the rents. They
obviously think it\'s worth it.

Google grossly over-pays them anyhow. Property values escalate within
walking distance of the google bus stops.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[rbowman]

On 06/01/2022 11:34 PM, Don Y wrote:

here\'s very little cost to *keeping* extra vehicles when all you have
to do is put Stabil in the tank (or drain it). How do you keep a
spare EV -- and ensure that it remains driveable (without becoming a
slave to that possession)?

A gas guzzler can sit for a decade and resume service with the introduction
of fuel. The *mechanism* doesn\'t degrade while being stored (within
reason).
Do you pull the battery from your EV while it\'s not being driven? (\"drain
the tank\") How do you maintain it in that state -- trade it in for cash?
A gas tank doesn\'t need any special care (if drained) to be usable years
later!

I do pull the battery out of the pickup and put it on a tender in the
winter. I try to take it for a ride once a year but with gas headed
toward $5 it might be a really short ride this year. But you\'re correct.
In this state after 12 years you go to a permanent plate so the only
cost is insurance.

 

[rbowman]

On 06/02/2022 12:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:49:59 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 09:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:28:04 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 07:08, bitrex wrote:
On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/


Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I still remember the 5:30AM clip-clop of the horse-drawn milkcart and
the clink of glass bottles as the milkman called Whoooah or g\'up to the
horse to keep pace. It wasn\'t a noise that woke me, or an unpleasant
sound if I was awake already.

Clifford Heath.

My dad was a milkman. I used to help him run his route on Saturday,
starting about 4 AM.

He said that he was really teaching me to work hard in school so I
wouldn\'t be stuck in a job like his. It worked.

Well done by your Dad. It clearly did you good too, it would have been a
hard life. I respect folk that can do that kind of service work. A
school-friend ran behind a garbage truck carrying and emptying bins for
six months before he started his PhD in Ag Sci. As well as him becoming
incredibly strong, it has had lifelong health benefits.

I assume horses weren\'t used in the crazy-steep parts of San Francisco.
I wonder how milk was delivered there?

CH

That was in New Orleans, almost optically flat.

I\'m NOT so old as to remember milk being delivered by horses.

https://www.splicetoday.com/writing/freihofer-s-bakery-wagons

You don\'t have to be completely ancient to remember bread being
delivered by horses. We lived in the country so bread and milk was
delivered by truck but they kept the horses in the city until \'62.

There was also a greengrocer who used a horse drawn wagon where my uncle
lived.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 3/6/22 04:12, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:49:59 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 09:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:28:04 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

On 2/6/22 07:08, bitrex wrote:
On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/


Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

I still remember the 5:30AM clip-clop of the horse-drawn milkcart and
the clink of glass bottles as the milkman called Whoooah or g\'up to the
horse to keep pace. It wasn\'t a noise that woke me, or an unpleasant
sound if I was awake already.

Clifford Heath.

My dad was a milkman. I used to help him run his route on Saturday,
starting about 4 AM.

He said that he was really teaching me to work hard in school so I
wouldn\'t be stuck in a job like his. It worked.

Well done by your Dad. It clearly did you good too, it would have been a
hard life. I respect folk that can do that kind of service work. A
school-friend ran behind a garbage truck carrying and emptying bins for
six months before he started his PhD in Ag Sci. As well as him becoming
incredibly strong, it has had lifelong health benefits.

I assume horses weren\'t used in the crazy-steep parts of San Francisco.
I wonder how milk was delivered there?

CH

That was in New Orleans, almost optically flat.

I\'m NOT so old as to remember milk being delivered by horses.

Well, I\'m only 62. The horse kept pace without needing a driver, so the
milk round was quicker than it could be with any one person in a truck.

 

[Don Y]

On 6/2/2022 8:48 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 06/01/2022 11:34 PM, Don Y wrote:
here\'s very little cost to *keeping* extra vehicles when all you have
to do is put Stabil in the tank (or drain it). How do you keep a
spare EV -- and ensure that it remains driveable (without becoming a
slave to that possession)?

A gas guzzler can sit for a decade and resume service with the introduction
of fuel. The *mechanism* doesn\'t degrade while being stored (within
reason).
Do you pull the battery from your EV while it\'s not being driven? (\"drain
the tank\") How do you maintain it in that state -- trade it in for cash?
A gas tank doesn\'t need any special care (if drained) to be usable years
later!

I do pull the battery out of the pickup and put it on a tender in the winter. I

But that\'s the *starter* battery (?). What would you do if you had an
EV that you wanted to sideline for months (or longer)?

try to take it for a ride once a year but with gas headed toward $5 it might be
a really short ride this year. But you\'re correct. In this state after 12 years
you go to a permanent plate so the only cost is insurance.

Vehicles are treated as \"property\", here. So, annual registration is a
function of assessed ORIGINAL value.

E.g., a $40K vehicle would cost ~$670 to register, for the first year;
~$560 for the second, etc. There\'s a definite advantage to keeping an
older vehicle, even if you put a lot of money into it, changing it\'s
ACTUAL (resale) value.

And, our climate means no worries of rust eating away at your frame, etc.
So, older vehicles are sought out and restored.

[I\'ve a friend with a ~1920s vintage touring car in which he\'s \"quietly\"
installed a custom, fully blown, ~700? HP plant, reinforced the frame,
etc. It\'s just a straight-line car as it has stability problems when
you open it up. The joke is that the *paint* holds the body together.
Engine set him back close to $50K. (not hard to imagine as a big block
crate can run $15K) But, it costs next to nothing to register it, due
to it\'s ORIGINAL \"VIN\". Insurance? Now that\'s a different story...]

Lots of folks who are into restoring to original state/configuration.
That seems silly, to me; take it in a different direction and make
something unique from it!

 

[Martin Brown]

On 01/06/2022 22:08, bitrex wrote:

On 6/1/2022 4:49 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

Evidence for this? They had a false dawn around 1910 but then were
outpaced at every turn by the internal combustion engine. Until the
advent of modern Nd magnetic materials and lithium batteries they were
always in very real trouble for power to weight ratio.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378765/worth-the-watt-a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car-1830-to-present/


Battery and motor technology were just not really up to it until
comparatively recently. UK had daily milk delivery vehicles powered by
lead acid cells when I was young but that was about it as far as
electric vehicles went. (advantage of nearly silent operation)

Trams were OK because they could avoid carrying the battery weight.

Wow, were the milk trucks run on battery so they wouldn\'t disturb
residents early in the morning?

Got it in one. They didn\'t have to be very quick either since it is
entirely short bursts of stop start driving. The weight of the batteries
was huge though. The odd one would have hand brake failure on a hill and
run away down it destroying whatever it happened to hit at the bottom.

They were not quite silent either since the bottles would make chink
chink noises rattling around in their metal frame carriers.

That\'s different than how things are in the US where all service
vehicles that come thru your neighborhood early in the morning seem to
try to make as much noise as they can unless your neighborhood\'s median
income is 100 grand or over

Par for the course these days. Our bin men don\'t get to my village until
about lunchtime so it isn\'t a problem for me.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 10:51:50 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 29/05/2022 14:19, Ricky wrote:
What is amazing in the debates over BEV adoption, is the sense of
entitlement.

2,000 years ago, the Romans built pipes of lead and were slowly
poisoned.
Not true.

The Victorians also used lead piping for drinking water and were not
poisoned by doing that at all. Only the most acidic soft water off
peatlands will dissolve any lead from water pipes. Most ordinary tap
water has enough dissolved salts in it that the inside of the pipe furs
up within the first year of use and no lead then escapes. The very name
\"plumber\" comes from the usage of lead pipes until very recently.

The 19th century Victorians used white lead for caulking things like gutters and water cisterns fed by them. Cisterns were ubiquitous in urban and rural settings. All the manufacturing centers, everywhere, were unbelievable disasters. You want acid rain? Just burn coal like the Victorians did, for everything. Germany was another hellacious hellhole coal burner up to fairly recently, perpetually suffocated by coal burning emissions. In places like Essen you didn\'t have enough visibility to see clearly across the street, and that was 1960s. There\'s no question all the heavy metal pollution and contamination made them into a nation of lunatics by the early 20th century. It\'s no coincidence that was the first generation completely saturated with contamination since they were conceived. The English were not much better, maybe being an island resulted in slightly better air circulation than the on the continent.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 9:19:52 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
<snip>

One of these days you\'ll get the education of a fifth grader.

The German uber alles doesn\'t have the meaning you ignorant, uneducated people think. It was used to reinforce the idea of a nation of unified states to take precedence over regional state loyalties. It doesn\'t mean the Germans considered themselves as above the rest of the world.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Deutschlandlied

 

[bitrex]

On 6/2/2022 2:20 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 17:24:08 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/31/2022 10:40 PM, rbowman wrote:

\"There is no birthright to transportation, other than the right to
walk.\"

Then again, nobody ASKED to be born into a country called the USA that
was designed around the automobile and had much of its public
transportation infrastructure dismantled in favor a long time ago.

No. The USA was \"designed around\" horses and mules and canoes and
sailing ships and wagons. People like to move themselves and their
stuff around. If anything designed our country, it was the collective
personal preferences.

The roads in many areas of Boston tend to be laid out about where the
carts went, there doesn\'t seem to be a lot of design to it though.

When you start with a town square that really is an irregular pentagon
things go to hell in a hurry. Then you have to remember the Back Bay
really was a bay and the Fens a tidal marsh. Even the Fens got redone
when they dammed the Charles and it went from brackish to fresh water.

It adds charm. I enjoyed walking around the town when I had work in the
area. \'Walking is the operant word. I\'d drive down from NH Sunday night
and park the car, only retrieving it to drive home Friday afternoon.


The \"charm\" also then tends to mean nobody wants anything built in or
near their charming neighborhood.

Housing in San Francisco and Boston proper is a terrible value for what
you get, this $448/month unit in Tokyo (also some of the most expensive
real estate in the world) is fantastic for the rent.

https://youtu.be/ooh1aoEJKZc?t=732


You\'d be hard-pressed to find anything as nice within the Boston city
limits for three times the price.

People who want to live in SF or Boston bid up the rents. They
obviously think it\'s worth it.

Google grossly over-pays them anyhow. Property values escalate within
walking distance of the google bus stops.

Yeah I will agree I\'ve only rarely met anyone in their 20s or 30s paying
several thousand a month in rent who seemed like they had a skillset
worth whatever their Boston employer was paying them to be able to
afford that.

One of the reasons the university system in the US has become such a
racket and they can charge anything is that if you\'re rich, and you\'re
white, that degree is still a pretty reliable ticket to a white-collar
job. Someone will almost surely hire you eventually in a way that a
person without the credentials would not be even if they had the same
skillset.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:42:14 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 9:19:52 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
snip

One of these days you\'ll get the education of a fifth grader.

The German uber alles doesn\'t have the meaning you ignorant, uneducated people think. It was used to reinforce the idea of a nation of unified states to take precedence over regional state loyalties. It doesn\'t mean the Germans considered themselves as above the rest of the world.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Deutschlandlied

Your reading skills are very impressive. You read into a post, so much that isn\'t there at all.

It would be nice if you didn\'t bother to correct people when you have no idea what they are talking about.

Not that it matters much. This thread has drifted far off topic, über alles.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[rbowman]

On 06/03/2022 12:18 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 6/2/2022 8:48 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 11:34 PM, Don Y wrote:
here\'s very little cost to *keeping* extra vehicles when all you have
to do is put Stabil in the tank (or drain it). How do you keep a
spare EV -- and ensure that it remains driveable (without becoming a
slave to that possession)?

A gas guzzler can sit for a decade and resume service with the
introduction
of fuel. The *mechanism* doesn\'t degrade while being stored (within
reason).
Do you pull the battery from your EV while it\'s not being driven?
(\"drain
the tank\") How do you maintain it in that state -- trade it in for
cash?
A gas tank doesn\'t need any special care (if drained) to be usable years
later!

I do pull the battery out of the pickup and put it on a tender in the
winter. I

But that\'s the *starter* battery (?). What would you do if you had an
EV that you wanted to sideline for months (or longer)?

Not something I plan on doing. The local Triumph dealer has a line of
electric motorcycles. Since bikes aren\'t feasible here from November to
May I assume it would have to be on some sort of float charger too but I
doubt taking the battery out isn\'t the 5 minute job as with the VStrom.

Vehicles are treated as \"property\", here. So, annual registration is a
function of assessed ORIGINAL value.

Same here but if the vehicle is 12 years or older you can pay what
amounts to 2 years of registrations and the plates are permanent; you
never pay again. Bikes are a one shot registration regardless of the
vehicle year. You pay once when you purchase it and never again.
Trailers of all sorts are the same.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:58:35 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:42:14 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 9:19:52 AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
snip

One of these days you\'ll get the education of a fifth grader.

The German uber alles doesn\'t have the meaning you ignorant, uneducated people think. It was used to reinforce the idea of a nation of unified states to take precedence over regional state loyalties. It doesn\'t mean the Germans considered themselves as above the rest of the world.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Deutschlandlied
Your reading skills are very impressive. You read into a post, so much that isn\'t there at all.

It would be nice if you didn\'t bother to correct people when you have no idea what they are talking about.

Not that it matters much. This thread has drifted far off topic, über alles.

I notice you just love telling people they don\'t know what they\'re talking about. Which is kind of a joke since you\'re one of the most ignorant people on usenet.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[server]

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 09:53:43 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/2/2022 2:20 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 17:24:08 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/31/2022 10:40 PM, rbowman wrote:

\"There is no birthright to transportation, other than the right to
walk.\"

Then again, nobody ASKED to be born into a country called the USA that
was designed around the automobile and had much of its public
transportation infrastructure dismantled in favor a long time ago.

No. The USA was \"designed around\" horses and mules and canoes and
sailing ships and wagons. People like to move themselves and their
stuff around. If anything designed our country, it was the collective
personal preferences.

The roads in many areas of Boston tend to be laid out about where the
carts went, there doesn\'t seem to be a lot of design to it though.

When you start with a town square that really is an irregular pentagon
things go to hell in a hurry. Then you have to remember the Back Bay
really was a bay and the Fens a tidal marsh. Even the Fens got redone
when they dammed the Charles and it went from brackish to fresh water.

It adds charm. I enjoyed walking around the town when I had work in the
area. \'Walking is the operant word. I\'d drive down from NH Sunday night
and park the car, only retrieving it to drive home Friday afternoon.


The \"charm\" also then tends to mean nobody wants anything built in or
near their charming neighborhood.

Housing in San Francisco and Boston proper is a terrible value for what
you get, this $448/month unit in Tokyo (also some of the most expensive
real estate in the world) is fantastic for the rent.

https://youtu.be/ooh1aoEJKZc?t=732


You\'d be hard-pressed to find anything as nice within the Boston city
limits for three times the price.

People who want to live in SF or Boston bid up the rents. They
obviously think it\'s worth it.

Google grossly over-pays them anyhow. Property values escalate within
walking distance of the google bus stops.


Yeah I will agree I\'ve only rarely met anyone in their 20s or 30s paying
several thousand a month in rent who seemed like they had a skillset
worth whatever their Boston employer was paying them to be able to
afford that.

Google and Apple and Facebook and those guys pay big bucks to bright
kids. And the kids can get a tiny condo or apartment to sleep in and
spend a lot of time outside.

$200K income, $400K for a couple, and $2-3K per month for rent can be
fun.

One of the reasons the university system in the US has become such a
racket and they can charge anything is that if you\'re rich, and you\'re
white, that degree is still a pretty reliable ticket to a white-collar
job. Someone will almost surely hire you eventually in a way that a
person without the credentials would not be even if they had the same
skillset.

This is interesting and very well researched:

https://tinyurl.com/2p8sc2xp

On conclusion is that going to Harvard is not much better than going
to some cheap state college.



--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar