Conical inductors--still $10!...

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 2:13:05 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:16:36 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 14/07/2020 22:43, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 21:16:22 +0200, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 14/07/2020 19:50, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

Why clearly wrong? Can 100% of a population catch this virus? 400% ?

We already know that the population vulnerability is *at least* 87% from
that hapless choir who had a symptomatic carrier in their midst.

Cool. The survivors are immune. They should volunteer to work in
nursing homes, and save some lives.

You seem completely unable to grasp the very simple fact that you have
to be exposed to the virus before you can catch it.

Now don\'t be a fathead. Try thinking once in a while maybe.

The problem here is that you are being a fathead. We\'ve frequently invited you to try to think about what you post, but it never seems to happen.

Lockdowns are why you have a tail at all in this period, rather than
continuing to have /more/ infections for a much longer period.

Or the same number of infections in a short period. Maybe even fewer
total infections.

We can watch and wait as the southern righttard states

Nobody like mindless bigots either.

And there is an element of poetic justice when their blind spots turn out to make them more likely to catch Covid19.

exercise their constitutional freedom to catch Covid-19. Only Brazil is making a more serious balls up of handling the pandemic than the USA. Both have a very long way to go before the infection gets anywhere near herd immunity.

Some recent estimates by \"experts\" put herd immunity as low as 20%.
Sounds reasonable to me.

All based on computer modelling. John Larkin trusts it when it produces a result he likes.

If you do nothing with business as usual you will see exponential growth
with a characteristic doubling time of about 3 days.

In that case, we\'re all dead. But the growth soon stops being
exponential and peaks and declines. Look it up.

But it does depend on human behavior. Presumably more intelligent people change their behavior sooner and more effectively, so the average IQ may end up higher than it was before the pandemic. Sadly, a 4% mortality rate doesn\'t kill enough people to make much of a difference and the age distribution of fatal outcomes means that most of them will have already reproduced.


> > That was what happened in the UK until they switched into lockdown. It is calculated that locking down one week sooner would have halved the death toll and meant a shorter lockdown period to get back to a traceable baseline
level. That is assuming the government managed to get track and trace
right (they didn\'t and the much vaunted UK world beating app sank
without trace).

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

Influenced by, perhaps, but not /caused/ by. The blame lies with the idiot authorities who opened up far too fast, far too much and far too soon.

Again, should they lock down forever? Opening gradually (or rather,
opening politically) just creates a long tail, with panic driven
bumps.

Not if it is done right.

> >Not exactly. You need a decent track and trace system that can close
down any local infections before they escape back into full community
transmission. This is more easily done in societies like Japan and Korea
where people trust their government and are compliant with advice. And
in China where the population have no choice but to obey the government.

USA people seem to wilfully go out of their way to court disaster.

Not much, but I think we are much less afraid, and unimpressed by
authority, than most places.

It may be more that the antiquated US political system means that the elected authorities are less impressive than they are places with better political systems.

> Selective migration did that. I wonder if recklessness is hereditary.

Attention seeking behavior in males does seem to be driven by a desire to get noticed by fertile females. As James Arthur is always reminding us, kids brought up by couples do better than kids brought up by single mothers, so any reproductive advantage from recklessness is dearly bought.

<snip>

The lockdown thing was and is grossly mismanaged. People under 40 have
a tiny mortality from this virus, and they could keep working. Spend
the trillions to protect the vulnerable; we mostly know who they are.

But it\'s not obvious that you can protect them. Aged care homes get infected remarkably often, despite their best efforts.

If our lockdowns kill more people in poor countries than they save in
mostly white developed countries (and they may not even save lives
here) then the lockdowns are racist genocide. Do Black Lives Matter in
Africa?

Silly question.

<snip>

I\'d rather catch this thing and take my chances to live or die, than
see myself and my family slowly starve to death.

Lock downs don\'t seem to be starving anybody to death.

Your choice of course but if you are male and over 60 be very careful
what you wish for. Take a very good look at the age related IFR first.

Yes, my choice. I am keeping my business alive and my employees paid.

But increasing the chances that people in your community will get infected.

And sending some fraction of our profits to fund life-changing and
life-saving medical care in Africa. If that kills me, lives are still
net saved.

Only if you are doing the math. Ignoring the potential negative consequences of you own free-loading does make you look good.

Sensible countries run their essential systems so that utilities and
food production remain available. Pretty much everything else in the UK
was shut down until about a week ago. Many office workers have found
that they can work from home more effectively than in the office - fewer
distractions and no early starts for a tedious commute into the city.

If many workers continue to work from home, which I think they will,
workers need not pack into dense, expensive cities. Don\'t invest in
WeWork.

On-line sharing is probably even cheaper than exploiting shared office space.

--
Bill Sloman, sydney

 

[server]

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 2:48:55 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/12/2020 2:19 PM, David Brown wrote:
On 12/07/2020 19:44, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:

The Soviets were confident for all his talk, Reagan would never pull the
trigger on them. They were less sure about Carter. Part of why they and
their allies worked so hard to help get rid of the guy.

Is that why Trump is their man?

No. Trump won my respect because he\'s proven to be a remarkably
capable chief executive, studiously faithful to the idea of limited
government, liberty, and a free people laid out in our constitution.

That let-Americans-decide back to American basics allowed Americans
to get back to work less impeded, producing a fountain of benefits
for the people who needed it most.

Unlike Obama\'s autocracy, President Trump hasn\'t sicced the IRS on his
opponents. Hasn\'t lied to the courts to get spy warrants against
political opponents based on falsified documents, he hasn\'t spied on
journalists or Congress or other political campaigns like Obama did
as a matter of course. Trump\'s been amazingly restrained, staying
within the lawful confines of his office, despite the most outrageous
provocations.

He\'s been exemplary. Both in policy, and in staying true to the American
Experiment, that immortal idea that a virtuous, educated people could,
had the right to -- and should -- rule themselves.

That\'s why.


A finer example of Poe\'s Law would be hard to find.


He thinks Obama sicced the IRS on him.

On Tea Parties. Don\'t read the news much, do we?

> Doesn\'t seem paranoid at all.

Is bitrex your real name? If not, who\'s paranoid?

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[server]

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 10:58:54 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

James Arthur does seem to act as if he is in the top 1% of the income distribution, or maybe he just gets paid to act that way. Apparently Obama\'s attempt to use the IRS to go after the money the Koch brothers were spending to astro-turf what used to be the Republican Party into the Tea Party faction impacted James Arthur and he\'s been cross about it ever since.

snip


He much gives the impression of a man who had a crooked scheme and then
much irritated that even the US Government was smart enough to figure it
out.

Gossip, and flat wrong.

Bill\'s similarly loony. I know a lot of Tea Party people and a lot
about the workings. Real people putting their own money into the
coffee can, not Bill\'s ridiculous fiction.

(And we\'re still at it.)

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[server]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 8:19:49 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Thanks to Glen, Mikko S, and James, the secret sauce page is now up. I
added a blog post with links, which will make it easier to search for.

https://electrooptical.net/News/mirror-of-wwwanalog-innovationscom-jim-thompsons-site/


The secret sauce page is typical JT, of course--just screen shots, no
actual deck. (Or plots either, but hey, the guy was pretty sick at that
point.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Most gracious of you Phil, thanks.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 15/7/20 12:22 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 09:01:47 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

It was actually a Piconics patent.


Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

The series connection, inductors and beads, can have resonances and
ugly step response. Added parts can selectively kill Q, which is a
mild nuisance to work out.

Coilcraft has a cool ferrite-filled wideband inductor

https://www.coilcraft.com/en-us/products/rf/conical-broadband/0-6-ghz/4310lc/

while only claimed good to 6 GHz, it\'s cheaper than conicals and
physically tough and can handle a lot of current. One might hang a
tiny smt inductor on the end of that and extend the bandwidth. I could
TDR that combo when I get a slow day.

And much smaller ones claimed god to 3GHz - but these limits are rather
arbitrary, and should be tested for your application:

<https://www.coilcraft.com/getmedia/588920f4-5e38-4f2a-8204-a9fba8503f70/4310lc.pdf>

CH

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 15/7/20 12:22 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 09:01:47 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

It was actually a Piconics patent.


Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

The series connection, inductors and beads, can have resonances and
ugly step response. Added parts can selectively kill Q, which is a
mild nuisance to work out.

Coilcraft has a cool ferrite-filled wideband inductor

https://www.coilcraft.com/en-us/products/rf/conical-broadband/0-6-ghz/4310lc/

while only claimed good to 6 GHz, it\'s cheaper than conicals and
physically tough and can handle a lot of current. One might hang a
tiny smt inductor on the end of that and extend the bandwidth. I could
TDR that combo when I get a slow day.

And much smaller ones claimed god to 3GHz - but these limits are rather
arbitrary, and should be tested for your application:

<https://www.coilcraft.com/getmedia/588920f4-5e38-4f2a-8204-a9fba8503f70/4310lc.pdf>

CH

 

[server]

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 2:48:55 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/12/2020 2:19 PM, David Brown wrote:
On 12/07/2020 19:44, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:

The Soviets were confident for all his talk, Reagan would never pull the
trigger on them. They were less sure about Carter. Part of why they and
their allies worked so hard to help get rid of the guy.

Is that why Trump is their man?

No. Trump won my respect because he\'s proven to be a remarkably
capable chief executive, studiously faithful to the idea of limited
government, liberty, and a free people laid out in our constitution.

That let-Americans-decide back to American basics allowed Americans
to get back to work less impeded, producing a fountain of benefits
for the people who needed it most.

Unlike Obama\'s autocracy, President Trump hasn\'t sicced the IRS on his
opponents. Hasn\'t lied to the courts to get spy warrants against
political opponents based on falsified documents, he hasn\'t spied on
journalists or Congress or other political campaigns like Obama did
as a matter of course. Trump\'s been amazingly restrained, staying
within the lawful confines of his office, despite the most outrageous
provocations.

He\'s been exemplary. Both in policy, and in staying true to the American
Experiment, that immortal idea that a virtuous, educated people could,
had the right to -- and should -- rule themselves.

That\'s why.


A finer example of Poe\'s Law would be hard to find.


He thinks Obama sicced the IRS on him.

On Tea Parties. Don\'t read the news much, do we?

> Doesn\'t seem paranoid at all.

Is bitrex your real name? If not, who\'s paranoid?

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 16/7/20 5:39 am, Simon S Aysdie wrote:

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:38:25 PM UTC-7, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why.

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

btw, AVX also makes conicals now.

This thread started with a discussion of the price of such things.
Have you actually looked? <https://octopart.com/search?q=GL110KA7B115>

A bargain! Only $US23.60 each! Or $14 in reels...

Humbug.

CH

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 16/7/20 5:39 am, Simon S Aysdie wrote:

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:38:25 PM UTC-7, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 6:01:54 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
So I was chatting with my local Mini Circuits rep, who also handles
Gowanda. He asked if I was interested in conical inductors, which I
certainly am, and how much I wanted to pay for them.

Remembering that JL had said that the Coilcraft patent had expired, I
said \"forty cents in reels\".

Turns out that Gowanda won\'t go below $10 apiece in reels. I pointed
out that I mostly wanted to use it with BFP640s and really wasn\'t going
to use a $10 inductor to decouple a 20-cent transistor--especially since
I can use series-connected 0201/0402/0603 inductors and beads to do
almost as good a job, for $0.12 total.

Those things are just ordinary ferrite or powdered iron, wound with
ordinary copper, and can\'t be that hard to make, so once the patent(s)
expire, it\'s hard to imagine how they can maintain that pricing level.

What gives, do you suppose?

I suppose they are harder to make than we\'d like, although I don\'t know why.

I have used Gowanda and Piconics. Yep--still pricy even though the patents are out.

My latest idea is to emulate a conical with a series of 2-4 \"stepped sizes\" of CCI ferrite core 0201,0402, 0603 inductors. I haven\'t had time to develop a library of \"favorite combinations.\" Some people are hesitant to use these coils above the first self resonance, but it is fine to do so.

btw, AVX also makes conicals now.

This thread started with a discussion of the price of such things.
Have you actually looked? <https://octopart.com/search?q=GL110KA7B115>

A bargain! Only $US23.60 each! Or $14 in reels...

Humbug.

CH

 

[Ricketty C]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:50:17 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 1:50:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:34 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
You are like the people who initially protested the stay at home orders because they wanted haircuts. You are so shallow and self centered. Yes, parking is what this pandemic is all about.

Your logic is wrong. I enjoy current parking and traffic situations, but i don\'t believe it should or will continue this way. How it that self centered?

Many office buildings are empty now and probably will never be occupied again. This cannot be a healthy city. City government living on ticket revenues can\'t last forever.

The city population density needs to be reduced and we need to reshape the area somehow. We just have to deal with the issues sooner or later.

I don\'t encourage people to protest the stay at home order. But i don\'t encourage blind strict enforcement either.

This is silly. You want strict enforcement, where it matters, for the 14 days it takes to make sure that anybody who has the infection has manifested it by testing positive for the presence of the virus.

Not enough districts in the US have done the kind of contact tracing that lets them quarantine only the people who might be infected for the 14 days from when they might have got infected.

We have been shut-down for many times of 14 days, but the virus is not going away. The 14 days period was and is just a guess. How is Australia and Beijing dealing with renew cases anyway? Contract tracing is not possible in many part of the world, including Beijing. We are way pass that point. You guys keep repeating meaningless phases.

Not to worry, the virus will suddenly be down the memory hole as
soon as the election\'s over, not a problem at all.

During H1N1 the Obama-Biden administration stopped counting cases.

quote
\"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there\'s an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.\"
/quote
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu-cases-overestimated/

Can you imagine if this president did the same?

Apparently now we\'re supposed to permanently shut down the world every
time there\'s a virus anywhere. I\'m not sure people have thought this
thing through...

Cheers,
James Arthur

Looks like it has burned out in New York, as it did in many European
countries. You can\'t have 20% of a population infected, for two or
three weeks each maybe, forever, even if the herd immunity level were
100%. Which of course it isn\'t.

The characteristic new-case waveform seems to be a rounded hump (dare
I say Gaussian?) of width 5 weeks or so. Lockdowns no doubt extend the
tail and cause secondary blips when inevitably mis-managed.

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/

Australia and S Africa and Paraguay seem to be having winter bumps.

The head of the CDC commented that they think the bump in the South
coincided with Memorial Day crowds of northerners, vacationing.

I\'ve just gotten word that despite being locked down in a lock-down
state to the point of lock-down insanity, Mom\'s been exposed. So now
the wait begins.

These half-witted faux-science worshippers who haven\'t let us get
national immunity may have killed her, just as I predicted months
ago.

I\'m sorry for your mom. Even in the older age groups it is only serious 20% of the time or so. Hope she gets better or even has no real symptoms.

Yeah, I feel your pain. The faux-science worshipers will make this disease as bad as it could be. I wish people would ignore the idiots and take the advice of the real scientists like Fauci.

People like Navarro will be the death of us all.

I think it might be wise to leave this country and only return after the US quarantine is lifted. I\'m not talking about the US imposing a quarantine on the residents, I\'m talking about the quarantine the rest of the world will be imposing on this country. Consider how bad the economy will be then!

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricketty C]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:50:17 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 1:50:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:34 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
You are like the people who initially protested the stay at home orders because they wanted haircuts. You are so shallow and self centered. Yes, parking is what this pandemic is all about.

Your logic is wrong. I enjoy current parking and traffic situations, but i don\'t believe it should or will continue this way. How it that self centered?

Many office buildings are empty now and probably will never be occupied again. This cannot be a healthy city. City government living on ticket revenues can\'t last forever.

The city population density needs to be reduced and we need to reshape the area somehow. We just have to deal with the issues sooner or later.

I don\'t encourage people to protest the stay at home order. But i don\'t encourage blind strict enforcement either.

This is silly. You want strict enforcement, where it matters, for the 14 days it takes to make sure that anybody who has the infection has manifested it by testing positive for the presence of the virus.

Not enough districts in the US have done the kind of contact tracing that lets them quarantine only the people who might be infected for the 14 days from when they might have got infected.

We have been shut-down for many times of 14 days, but the virus is not going away. The 14 days period was and is just a guess. How is Australia and Beijing dealing with renew cases anyway? Contract tracing is not possible in many part of the world, including Beijing. We are way pass that point. You guys keep repeating meaningless phases.

Not to worry, the virus will suddenly be down the memory hole as
soon as the election\'s over, not a problem at all.

During H1N1 the Obama-Biden administration stopped counting cases.

quote
\"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there\'s an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.\"
/quote
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu-cases-overestimated/

Can you imagine if this president did the same?

Apparently now we\'re supposed to permanently shut down the world every
time there\'s a virus anywhere. I\'m not sure people have thought this
thing through...

Cheers,
James Arthur

Looks like it has burned out in New York, as it did in many European
countries. You can\'t have 20% of a population infected, for two or
three weeks each maybe, forever, even if the herd immunity level were
100%. Which of course it isn\'t.

The characteristic new-case waveform seems to be a rounded hump (dare
I say Gaussian?) of width 5 weeks or so. Lockdowns no doubt extend the
tail and cause secondary blips when inevitably mis-managed.

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/

Australia and S Africa and Paraguay seem to be having winter bumps.

The head of the CDC commented that they think the bump in the South
coincided with Memorial Day crowds of northerners, vacationing.

I\'ve just gotten word that despite being locked down in a lock-down
state to the point of lock-down insanity, Mom\'s been exposed. So now
the wait begins.

These half-witted faux-science worshippers who haven\'t let us get
national immunity may have killed her, just as I predicted months
ago.

I\'m sorry for your mom. Even in the older age groups it is only serious 20% of the time or so. Hope she gets better or even has no real symptoms.

Yeah, I feel your pain. The faux-science worshipers will make this disease as bad as it could be. I wish people would ignore the idiots and take the advice of the real scientists like Fauci.

People like Navarro will be the death of us all.

I think it might be wise to leave this country and only return after the US quarantine is lifted. I\'m not talking about the US imposing a quarantine on the residents, I\'m talking about the quarantine the rest of the world will be imposing on this country. Consider how bad the economy will be then!

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricketty C]

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:50:17 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 1:50:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:34 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
You are like the people who initially protested the stay at home orders because they wanted haircuts. You are so shallow and self centered. Yes, parking is what this pandemic is all about.

Your logic is wrong. I enjoy current parking and traffic situations, but i don\'t believe it should or will continue this way. How it that self centered?

Many office buildings are empty now and probably will never be occupied again. This cannot be a healthy city. City government living on ticket revenues can\'t last forever.

The city population density needs to be reduced and we need to reshape the area somehow. We just have to deal with the issues sooner or later.

I don\'t encourage people to protest the stay at home order. But i don\'t encourage blind strict enforcement either.

This is silly. You want strict enforcement, where it matters, for the 14 days it takes to make sure that anybody who has the infection has manifested it by testing positive for the presence of the virus.

Not enough districts in the US have done the kind of contact tracing that lets them quarantine only the people who might be infected for the 14 days from when they might have got infected.

We have been shut-down for many times of 14 days, but the virus is not going away. The 14 days period was and is just a guess. How is Australia and Beijing dealing with renew cases anyway? Contract tracing is not possible in many part of the world, including Beijing. We are way pass that point. You guys keep repeating meaningless phases.

Not to worry, the virus will suddenly be down the memory hole as
soon as the election\'s over, not a problem at all.

During H1N1 the Obama-Biden administration stopped counting cases.

quote
\"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there\'s an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.\"
/quote
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu-cases-overestimated/

Can you imagine if this president did the same?

Apparently now we\'re supposed to permanently shut down the world every
time there\'s a virus anywhere. I\'m not sure people have thought this
thing through...

Cheers,
James Arthur

Looks like it has burned out in New York, as it did in many European
countries. You can\'t have 20% of a population infected, for two or
three weeks each maybe, forever, even if the herd immunity level were
100%. Which of course it isn\'t.

The characteristic new-case waveform seems to be a rounded hump (dare
I say Gaussian?) of width 5 weeks or so. Lockdowns no doubt extend the
tail and cause secondary blips when inevitably mis-managed.

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/

Australia and S Africa and Paraguay seem to be having winter bumps.

The head of the CDC commented that they think the bump in the South
coincided with Memorial Day crowds of northerners, vacationing.

I\'ve just gotten word that despite being locked down in a lock-down
state to the point of lock-down insanity, Mom\'s been exposed. So now
the wait begins.

These half-witted faux-science worshippers who haven\'t let us get
national immunity may have killed her, just as I predicted months
ago.

I\'m sorry for your mom. Even in the older age groups it is only serious 20% of the time or so. Hope she gets better or even has no real symptoms.

Yeah, I feel your pain. The faux-science worshipers will make this disease as bad as it could be. I wish people would ignore the idiots and take the advice of the real scientists like Fauci.

People like Navarro will be the death of us all.

I think it might be wise to leave this country and only return after the US quarantine is lifted. I\'m not talking about the US imposing a quarantine on the residents, I\'m talking about the quarantine the rest of the world will be imposing on this country. Consider how bad the economy will be then!

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[server]

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 5:39:36 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:05:00 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 3:46:50 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 02/07/2020 06:27, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/07/20 22:01, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 1:09:01 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/07/20 17:42, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 10:34:18 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/20 15:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
There is a very real Deep State that supresses freedom, and it\'s a lot
bigger than is was in 1789.

Not necessarily /state/. Entrenched interests/wealth/power
usually does do that.

Some states/governments are progressive and enhance and
widen opportunities.

Have you thought that through?

How are these governments enhancing and widening opportunities?

I\'ve not only thought it through, I\'ve witnessed it.

I refer you to Germany, the UK, and similar from
the 60s onwards.

But you didn\'t answer my question, you\'ve merely made a vague statement
of \'goodness\' and posited a vague causation, to unidentified policies.

What did they do that enhanced and widened opportunities?

Many things. I\'ll mention two related to education.
The Open University (think MOOC half a century ago).
Ensuring underprivileged kids got the best education
based on their abilities, not their parents\' class[1].

That\'s constructive--class-based discrimination is wrong.

In America, national teachers\' unions are devoted to ensuring
that poor children be compelled to attend their schools, no
matter how awful the school.

But you won\'t believe anything that doesn\'t fit
into your weltanschauung, so there isn\'t much
point in my spending my time trying to open
your eyes.

I\'m very persuadable, but it has to make sense.

If you try and tell me handing out money fixes poverty,
you\'re going to have a tough time explaining how, and
rationalizing why sixty years of that has only made
things worse in the US.

[1] realise that class in the UK is similar
to race in the USA

We discriminated heavily, years ago, and we ended that,
generations ago. Anyone who wants to can get a job now.
And getting a job is virtually all one needs not to be poor.


Eliminating (or greatly reducing) poverty is no easy matter. You are
right that education plays a key part.

USA has a particular challenge in that it has such a money-dominated
culture. Tom is wrong to say that race is the American equivalent of
British \"class\" - while race has a solid part to play, it is /money/
that makes class in the USA. People associate very little with others
outside their monetary class, and the possibilities for moving upwards
in monetary class are very small.

That\'s flatly false. The statistics plainly indicate that nearly
all the people with the highest incomes started off at the bottom,
and they rarely stay at the top long.

We have almost no Marxist-notion of a fixed \'class\' one is born into,
as in Europe.

Also, nearly all the people who are counted as poor at some point,
are later not poor, and are rising up to the middle-income levels.

(Not non-existent, of course, but
small - and smaller than they used to be.)

Poverty is not about not having money in absolute terms - it\'s about
having less than others, and less than you need for your basic needs.

Poverty is about having less than you need! If you have enough, you
aren\'t poor! If you want more, work more. It\'s simple.

There are plenty of Americans who have two jobs but get their food from
food banks. There are plenty of families with two working adults that
can\'t afford to pay their rent. A job is /not/ enough to avoid poverty.

Sure it is. Minimum wage, a mere forty hours a week, is completely
survivable. Where I live you could buy a house and raise a small
family on $20k a year.

The cost of living, the cost of a place to stay, is critical. Having
enough time left over besides work to look after your family, keep
yourself healthy, have a life - that is all important.

As poverty is primarily a relative term, the key to dealing with it is
improving equality.

You have no ability to \"improve equality.\" All you can do is take one
man\'s earnings and give it to another man.

If an aspect of life can be disassociated from
money, poverty is reduced. The biggest one here is health care -
universal free health care is an absolute requirement because it stops
(or at least reduces) the cycle of poverty leading to poor health
leading to more poverty.

And there, you\'ve said it -- one man\'s wages *should* be taken to
support a man who didn\'t earn it. If one man has twice the income
that\'s not fair! If the \'richer\' man works 80 hours a week at two
jobs to support his family, and the other guy works 30 hours a week
and spends the rest of his time relaxing with his kids, that doesn\'t
matter. They\'re unequal, and that has to be fixed!

The same could be said for food, then housing, automobiles, shoes, etc.,
and it would be just as naive.

If you gave me the necessities of life, taking them from my fellow
Americans, why would I work?

If my hard-working fellow Americans realized they could get the
government to take the necessities of life from others, for their
own personal benefit, why would they work?

If stealing from my neighbor is legitimized by the vote, why wouldn\'t
I steal from my neighbor?

This is followed by education, with a similar
cycle but over a longer period (generations rather than years). Then
comes housing. Council housing schemes don\'t give you the nicest place
to live, but they give you something you can afford and you are not
forever in fear of the landlord.

And /equality/ is vital to this. In the USA, you are very keen on
means-testing - people can get support for health or other things if
they can prove that they can\'t afford to buy it themselves. In
countries that try to get a more equal society, it is the same for
/everyone/. It doesn\'t matter if you own a huge company or you\'ve never
been able to hold down a job - you have the same right to health care in
the same hospital, your kids go to the same school and you get the same
child benefits for them. Everyone feels society is supporting them,
while you contribute according to your income. If you don\'t have this
levelness and equality, you have a system where the rich are forced to
give charity to the poor, which is resented by everyone.

Your plan doesn\'t account for basic human nature -- if you working
simply gets taken to benefit your neighbor, why bother? The experiment
has been tried over and over with the same result: people stop working
as hard.

You\'re also missing a critically fundamental fact: the reason we have
*anything* at all is because someone used their brains and brawn to
produce it, usually not terribly long before we used it.

*Wealth* is created by people going out and creating things for society,
then trading the cool things they created for other things that other
people have made.

Your plan discourages that. Your plan *creates* poverty and inequality.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Some things that are devastating our lower-income people:

Cheap imported labor

Cheap imported goods

Fragmented families

Drugs

Physical, racial, and language segregation by diffusion

Great Society type disencentives to join the middle and upper income
classes, to work, to feel engaged even if the work is not really
productive.

I heard a great economist today explain these discredited Utopian
notions\' proposers can\'t imagine their simplistic schemes possibly
unfolding imperfectly.

\"Most people who talk about this don\'t even talk in terms of
\'If this then that,\' they talk about it as \'This is how the
world ought to be.\" (Thomas Sowell)

E.g., why would someone on the dole ever work for something they
already get free? It doesn\'t make any sense.

I think hardware design trains some of us to think ahead more
carefully, to consider more possibilities beforehand, to test
our ideas constantly to see if they\'re making sense / working
as expected, and instills humility.

Hardware doesn\'t care how lovely your idea sounded.

There\'s nothing so humbling as a single transistor\'s behaving
not-to-plan...

Cheers,
James Arthur

-----
\"If you want to make God laugh? Tell him your plans.\" Yiddish saying

 

[server]

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 5:39:36 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:05:00 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 3:46:50 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 02/07/2020 06:27, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/07/20 22:01, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 1:09:01 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/07/20 17:42, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 10:34:18 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/20 15:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
There is a very real Deep State that supresses freedom, and it\'s a lot
bigger than is was in 1789.

Not necessarily /state/. Entrenched interests/wealth/power
usually does do that.

Some states/governments are progressive and enhance and
widen opportunities.

Have you thought that through?

How are these governments enhancing and widening opportunities?

I\'ve not only thought it through, I\'ve witnessed it.

I refer you to Germany, the UK, and similar from
the 60s onwards.

But you didn\'t answer my question, you\'ve merely made a vague statement
of \'goodness\' and posited a vague causation, to unidentified policies.

What did they do that enhanced and widened opportunities?

Many things. I\'ll mention two related to education.
The Open University (think MOOC half a century ago).
Ensuring underprivileged kids got the best education
based on their abilities, not their parents\' class[1].

That\'s constructive--class-based discrimination is wrong.

In America, national teachers\' unions are devoted to ensuring
that poor children be compelled to attend their schools, no
matter how awful the school.

But you won\'t believe anything that doesn\'t fit
into your weltanschauung, so there isn\'t much
point in my spending my time trying to open
your eyes.

I\'m very persuadable, but it has to make sense.

If you try and tell me handing out money fixes poverty,
you\'re going to have a tough time explaining how, and
rationalizing why sixty years of that has only made
things worse in the US.

[1] realise that class in the UK is similar
to race in the USA

We discriminated heavily, years ago, and we ended that,
generations ago. Anyone who wants to can get a job now.
And getting a job is virtually all one needs not to be poor.


Eliminating (or greatly reducing) poverty is no easy matter. You are
right that education plays a key part.

USA has a particular challenge in that it has such a money-dominated
culture. Tom is wrong to say that race is the American equivalent of
British \"class\" - while race has a solid part to play, it is /money/
that makes class in the USA. People associate very little with others
outside their monetary class, and the possibilities for moving upwards
in monetary class are very small.

That\'s flatly false. The statistics plainly indicate that nearly
all the people with the highest incomes started off at the bottom,
and they rarely stay at the top long.

We have almost no Marxist-notion of a fixed \'class\' one is born into,
as in Europe.

Also, nearly all the people who are counted as poor at some point,
are later not poor, and are rising up to the middle-income levels.

(Not non-existent, of course, but
small - and smaller than they used to be.)

Poverty is not about not having money in absolute terms - it\'s about
having less than others, and less than you need for your basic needs.

Poverty is about having less than you need! If you have enough, you
aren\'t poor! If you want more, work more. It\'s simple.

There are plenty of Americans who have two jobs but get their food from
food banks. There are plenty of families with two working adults that
can\'t afford to pay their rent. A job is /not/ enough to avoid poverty.

Sure it is. Minimum wage, a mere forty hours a week, is completely
survivable. Where I live you could buy a house and raise a small
family on $20k a year.

The cost of living, the cost of a place to stay, is critical. Having
enough time left over besides work to look after your family, keep
yourself healthy, have a life - that is all important.

As poverty is primarily a relative term, the key to dealing with it is
improving equality.

You have no ability to \"improve equality.\" All you can do is take one
man\'s earnings and give it to another man.

If an aspect of life can be disassociated from
money, poverty is reduced. The biggest one here is health care -
universal free health care is an absolute requirement because it stops
(or at least reduces) the cycle of poverty leading to poor health
leading to more poverty.

And there, you\'ve said it -- one man\'s wages *should* be taken to
support a man who didn\'t earn it. If one man has twice the income
that\'s not fair! If the \'richer\' man works 80 hours a week at two
jobs to support his family, and the other guy works 30 hours a week
and spends the rest of his time relaxing with his kids, that doesn\'t
matter. They\'re unequal, and that has to be fixed!

The same could be said for food, then housing, automobiles, shoes, etc.,
and it would be just as naive.

If you gave me the necessities of life, taking them from my fellow
Americans, why would I work?

If my hard-working fellow Americans realized they could get the
government to take the necessities of life from others, for their
own personal benefit, why would they work?

If stealing from my neighbor is legitimized by the vote, why wouldn\'t
I steal from my neighbor?

This is followed by education, with a similar
cycle but over a longer period (generations rather than years). Then
comes housing. Council housing schemes don\'t give you the nicest place
to live, but they give you something you can afford and you are not
forever in fear of the landlord.

And /equality/ is vital to this. In the USA, you are very keen on
means-testing - people can get support for health or other things if
they can prove that they can\'t afford to buy it themselves. In
countries that try to get a more equal society, it is the same for
/everyone/. It doesn\'t matter if you own a huge company or you\'ve never
been able to hold down a job - you have the same right to health care in
the same hospital, your kids go to the same school and you get the same
child benefits for them. Everyone feels society is supporting them,
while you contribute according to your income. If you don\'t have this
levelness and equality, you have a system where the rich are forced to
give charity to the poor, which is resented by everyone.

Your plan doesn\'t account for basic human nature -- if you working
simply gets taken to benefit your neighbor, why bother? The experiment
has been tried over and over with the same result: people stop working
as hard.

You\'re also missing a critically fundamental fact: the reason we have
*anything* at all is because someone used their brains and brawn to
produce it, usually not terribly long before we used it.

*Wealth* is created by people going out and creating things for society,
then trading the cool things they created for other things that other
people have made.

Your plan discourages that. Your plan *creates* poverty and inequality.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Some things that are devastating our lower-income people:

Cheap imported labor

Cheap imported goods

Fragmented families

Drugs

Physical, racial, and language segregation by diffusion

Great Society type disencentives to join the middle and upper income
classes, to work, to feel engaged even if the work is not really
productive.

I heard a great economist today explain these discredited Utopian
notions\' proposers can\'t imagine their simplistic schemes possibly
unfolding imperfectly.

\"Most people who talk about this don\'t even talk in terms of
\'If this then that,\' they talk about it as \'This is how the
world ought to be.\" (Thomas Sowell)

E.g., why would someone on the dole ever work for something they
already get free? It doesn\'t make any sense.

I think hardware design trains some of us to think ahead more
carefully, to consider more possibilities beforehand, to test
our ideas constantly to see if they\'re making sense / working
as expected, and instills humility.

Hardware doesn\'t care how lovely your idea sounded.

There\'s nothing so humbling as a single transistor\'s behaving
not-to-plan...

Cheers,
James Arthur

-----
\"If you want to make God laugh? Tell him your plans.\" Yiddish saying

 

[server]

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 5:39:36 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:05:00 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 3:46:50 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 02/07/2020 06:27, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/07/20 22:01, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 1:09:01 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 01/07/20 17:42, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 10:34:18 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/06/20 15:22, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
There is a very real Deep State that supresses freedom, and it\'s a lot
bigger than is was in 1789.

Not necessarily /state/. Entrenched interests/wealth/power
usually does do that.

Some states/governments are progressive and enhance and
widen opportunities.

Have you thought that through?

How are these governments enhancing and widening opportunities?

I\'ve not only thought it through, I\'ve witnessed it.

I refer you to Germany, the UK, and similar from
the 60s onwards.

But you didn\'t answer my question, you\'ve merely made a vague statement
of \'goodness\' and posited a vague causation, to unidentified policies.

What did they do that enhanced and widened opportunities?

Many things. I\'ll mention two related to education.
The Open University (think MOOC half a century ago).
Ensuring underprivileged kids got the best education
based on their abilities, not their parents\' class[1].

That\'s constructive--class-based discrimination is wrong.

In America, national teachers\' unions are devoted to ensuring
that poor children be compelled to attend their schools, no
matter how awful the school.

But you won\'t believe anything that doesn\'t fit
into your weltanschauung, so there isn\'t much
point in my spending my time trying to open
your eyes.

I\'m very persuadable, but it has to make sense.

If you try and tell me handing out money fixes poverty,
you\'re going to have a tough time explaining how, and
rationalizing why sixty years of that has only made
things worse in the US.

[1] realise that class in the UK is similar
to race in the USA

We discriminated heavily, years ago, and we ended that,
generations ago. Anyone who wants to can get a job now.
And getting a job is virtually all one needs not to be poor.


Eliminating (or greatly reducing) poverty is no easy matter. You are
right that education plays a key part.

USA has a particular challenge in that it has such a money-dominated
culture. Tom is wrong to say that race is the American equivalent of
British \"class\" - while race has a solid part to play, it is /money/
that makes class in the USA. People associate very little with others
outside their monetary class, and the possibilities for moving upwards
in monetary class are very small.

That\'s flatly false. The statistics plainly indicate that nearly
all the people with the highest incomes started off at the bottom,
and they rarely stay at the top long.

We have almost no Marxist-notion of a fixed \'class\' one is born into,
as in Europe.

Also, nearly all the people who are counted as poor at some point,
are later not poor, and are rising up to the middle-income levels.

(Not non-existent, of course, but
small - and smaller than they used to be.)

Poverty is not about not having money in absolute terms - it\'s about
having less than others, and less than you need for your basic needs.

Poverty is about having less than you need! If you have enough, you
aren\'t poor! If you want more, work more. It\'s simple.

There are plenty of Americans who have two jobs but get their food from
food banks. There are plenty of families with two working adults that
can\'t afford to pay their rent. A job is /not/ enough to avoid poverty.

Sure it is. Minimum wage, a mere forty hours a week, is completely
survivable. Where I live you could buy a house and raise a small
family on $20k a year.

The cost of living, the cost of a place to stay, is critical. Having
enough time left over besides work to look after your family, keep
yourself healthy, have a life - that is all important.

As poverty is primarily a relative term, the key to dealing with it is
improving equality.

You have no ability to \"improve equality.\" All you can do is take one
man\'s earnings and give it to another man.

If an aspect of life can be disassociated from
money, poverty is reduced. The biggest one here is health care -
universal free health care is an absolute requirement because it stops
(or at least reduces) the cycle of poverty leading to poor health
leading to more poverty.

And there, you\'ve said it -- one man\'s wages *should* be taken to
support a man who didn\'t earn it. If one man has twice the income
that\'s not fair! If the \'richer\' man works 80 hours a week at two
jobs to support his family, and the other guy works 30 hours a week
and spends the rest of his time relaxing with his kids, that doesn\'t
matter. They\'re unequal, and that has to be fixed!

The same could be said for food, then housing, automobiles, shoes, etc.,
and it would be just as naive.

If you gave me the necessities of life, taking them from my fellow
Americans, why would I work?

If my hard-working fellow Americans realized they could get the
government to take the necessities of life from others, for their
own personal benefit, why would they work?

If stealing from my neighbor is legitimized by the vote, why wouldn\'t
I steal from my neighbor?

This is followed by education, with a similar
cycle but over a longer period (generations rather than years). Then
comes housing. Council housing schemes don\'t give you the nicest place
to live, but they give you something you can afford and you are not
forever in fear of the landlord.

And /equality/ is vital to this. In the USA, you are very keen on
means-testing - people can get support for health or other things if
they can prove that they can\'t afford to buy it themselves. In
countries that try to get a more equal society, it is the same for
/everyone/. It doesn\'t matter if you own a huge company or you\'ve never
been able to hold down a job - you have the same right to health care in
the same hospital, your kids go to the same school and you get the same
child benefits for them. Everyone feels society is supporting them,
while you contribute according to your income. If you don\'t have this
levelness and equality, you have a system where the rich are forced to
give charity to the poor, which is resented by everyone.

Your plan doesn\'t account for basic human nature -- if you working
simply gets taken to benefit your neighbor, why bother? The experiment
has been tried over and over with the same result: people stop working
as hard.

You\'re also missing a critically fundamental fact: the reason we have
*anything* at all is because someone used their brains and brawn to
produce it, usually not terribly long before we used it.

*Wealth* is created by people going out and creating things for society,
then trading the cool things they created for other things that other
people have made.

Your plan discourages that. Your plan *creates* poverty and inequality.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Some things that are devastating our lower-income people:

Cheap imported labor

Cheap imported goods

Fragmented families

Drugs

Physical, racial, and language segregation by diffusion

Great Society type disencentives to join the middle and upper income
classes, to work, to feel engaged even if the work is not really
productive.

I heard a great economist today explain these discredited Utopian
notions\' proposers can\'t imagine their simplistic schemes possibly
unfolding imperfectly.

\"Most people who talk about this don\'t even talk in terms of
\'If this then that,\' they talk about it as \'This is how the
world ought to be.\" (Thomas Sowell)

E.g., why would someone on the dole ever work for something they
already get free? It doesn\'t make any sense.

I think hardware design trains some of us to think ahead more
carefully, to consider more possibilities beforehand, to test
our ideas constantly to see if they\'re making sense / working
as expected, and instills humility.

Hardware doesn\'t care how lovely your idea sounded.

There\'s nothing so humbling as a single transistor\'s behaving
not-to-plan...

Cheers,
James Arthur

-----
\"If you want to make God laugh? Tell him your plans.\" Yiddish saying

 

[server]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 1:20:17 AM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:50:17 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 1:50:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:34 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
You are like the people who initially protested the stay at home orders because they wanted haircuts. You are so shallow and self centered. Yes, parking is what this pandemic is all about.

Your logic is wrong. I enjoy current parking and traffic situations, but i don\'t believe it should or will continue this way. How it that self centered?

Many office buildings are empty now and probably will never be occupied again. This cannot be a healthy city. City government living on ticket revenues can\'t last forever.

The city population density needs to be reduced and we need to reshape the area somehow. We just have to deal with the issues sooner or later.

I don\'t encourage people to protest the stay at home order. But i don\'t encourage blind strict enforcement either.

This is silly. You want strict enforcement, where it matters, for the 14 days it takes to make sure that anybody who has the infection has manifested it by testing positive for the presence of the virus.

Not enough districts in the US have done the kind of contact tracing that lets them quarantine only the people who might be infected for the 14 days from when they might have got infected.

We have been shut-down for many times of 14 days, but the virus is not going away. The 14 days period was and is just a guess. How is Australia and Beijing dealing with renew cases anyway? Contract tracing is not possible in many part of the world, including Beijing. We are way pass that point. You guys keep repeating meaningless phases.

Not to worry, the virus will suddenly be down the memory hole as
soon as the election\'s over, not a problem at all.

During H1N1 the Obama-Biden administration stopped counting cases.

quote
\"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there\'s an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.\"
/quote
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu-cases-overestimated/

Can you imagine if this president did the same?

Apparently now we\'re supposed to permanently shut down the world every
time there\'s a virus anywhere. I\'m not sure people have thought this
thing through...

Cheers,
James Arthur

Looks like it has burned out in New York, as it did in many European
countries. You can\'t have 20% of a population infected, for two or
three weeks each maybe, forever, even if the herd immunity level were
100%. Which of course it isn\'t.

The characteristic new-case waveform seems to be a rounded hump (dare
I say Gaussian?) of width 5 weeks or so. Lockdowns no doubt extend the
tail and cause secondary blips when inevitably mis-managed.

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/

Australia and S Africa and Paraguay seem to be having winter bumps.

The head of the CDC commented that they think the bump in the South
coincided with Memorial Day crowds of northerners, vacationing.

I\'ve just gotten word that despite being locked down in a lock-down
state to the point of lock-down insanity, Mom\'s been exposed. So now
the wait begins.

These half-witted faux-science worshippers who haven\'t let us get
national immunity may have killed her, just as I predicted months
ago.

I\'m sorry for your mom. Even in the older age groups it is only serious 20% of the time or so. Hope she gets better or even has no real symptoms.

Yeah, I feel your pain. The faux-science worshipers will make this disease as bad as it could be. I wish people would ignore the idiots and take the advice of the real scientists like Fauci.

You mean the same Fauci who said we shouldn\'t wear face coverings but
now says the opposite? Who told President Trump it was likely to be
like a bad seasonal flu? (Which is still likely -- flu\'s no joke.)
Who advised us that we needn\'t be concerned? Who said it was contained?
Then told us we\'d have to be locked-down forever?

I like Fauci but he\'s not God, he\'s just a guy, and he\'s not better than
common sense. Wash your hands, don\'t touch your face. If you\'re sick,
stay home. If you\'ve been exposed, self-isolate. Don\'t cough on people,
that\'s rude.

People like Navarro will be the death of us all.

I think it might be wise to leave this country and only return after the US quarantine is lifted. I\'m not talking about the US imposing a quarantine on the residents, I\'m talking about the quarantine the rest of the world will be imposing on this country. Consider how bad the economy will be then!

If we\'d allowed the 2/3rds of society we know aren\'t badly affected to
go about their business normally, this thing would\'ve been over months
ago and our senior citizens safe.


James Arthur

 

[server]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 1:20:17 AM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:50:17 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 1:50:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:34 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
You are like the people who initially protested the stay at home orders because they wanted haircuts. You are so shallow and self centered. Yes, parking is what this pandemic is all about.

Your logic is wrong. I enjoy current parking and traffic situations, but i don\'t believe it should or will continue this way. How it that self centered?

Many office buildings are empty now and probably will never be occupied again. This cannot be a healthy city. City government living on ticket revenues can\'t last forever.

The city population density needs to be reduced and we need to reshape the area somehow. We just have to deal with the issues sooner or later.

I don\'t encourage people to protest the stay at home order. But i don\'t encourage blind strict enforcement either.

This is silly. You want strict enforcement, where it matters, for the 14 days it takes to make sure that anybody who has the infection has manifested it by testing positive for the presence of the virus.

Not enough districts in the US have done the kind of contact tracing that lets them quarantine only the people who might be infected for the 14 days from when they might have got infected.

We have been shut-down for many times of 14 days, but the virus is not going away. The 14 days period was and is just a guess. How is Australia and Beijing dealing with renew cases anyway? Contract tracing is not possible in many part of the world, including Beijing. We are way pass that point. You guys keep repeating meaningless phases.

Not to worry, the virus will suddenly be down the memory hole as
soon as the election\'s over, not a problem at all.

During H1N1 the Obama-Biden administration stopped counting cases.

quote
\"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there\'s an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.\"
/quote
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu-cases-overestimated/

Can you imagine if this president did the same?

Apparently now we\'re supposed to permanently shut down the world every
time there\'s a virus anywhere. I\'m not sure people have thought this
thing through...

Cheers,
James Arthur

Looks like it has burned out in New York, as it did in many European
countries. You can\'t have 20% of a population infected, for two or
three weeks each maybe, forever, even if the herd immunity level were
100%. Which of course it isn\'t.

The characteristic new-case waveform seems to be a rounded hump (dare
I say Gaussian?) of width 5 weeks or so. Lockdowns no doubt extend the
tail and cause secondary blips when inevitably mis-managed.

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/

Australia and S Africa and Paraguay seem to be having winter bumps.

The head of the CDC commented that they think the bump in the South
coincided with Memorial Day crowds of northerners, vacationing.

I\'ve just gotten word that despite being locked down in a lock-down
state to the point of lock-down insanity, Mom\'s been exposed. So now
the wait begins.

These half-witted faux-science worshippers who haven\'t let us get
national immunity may have killed her, just as I predicted months
ago.

I\'m sorry for your mom. Even in the older age groups it is only serious 20% of the time or so. Hope she gets better or even has no real symptoms.

Yeah, I feel your pain. The faux-science worshipers will make this disease as bad as it could be. I wish people would ignore the idiots and take the advice of the real scientists like Fauci.

You mean the same Fauci who said we shouldn\'t wear face coverings but
now says the opposite? Who told President Trump it was likely to be
like a bad seasonal flu? (Which is still likely -- flu\'s no joke.)
Who advised us that we needn\'t be concerned? Who said it was contained?
Then told us we\'d have to be locked-down forever?

I like Fauci but he\'s not God, he\'s just a guy, and he\'s not better than
common sense. Wash your hands, don\'t touch your face. If you\'re sick,
stay home. If you\'ve been exposed, self-isolate. Don\'t cough on people,
that\'s rude.

People like Navarro will be the death of us all.

I think it might be wise to leave this country and only return after the US quarantine is lifted. I\'m not talking about the US imposing a quarantine on the residents, I\'m talking about the quarantine the rest of the world will be imposing on this country. Consider how bad the economy will be then!

If we\'d allowed the 2/3rds of society we know aren\'t badly affected to
go about their business normally, this thing would\'ve been over months
ago and our senior citizens safe.


James Arthur

 

[server]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 1:20:17 AM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:50:17 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 1:50:54 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:19:34 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
You are like the people who initially protested the stay at home orders because they wanted haircuts. You are so shallow and self centered. Yes, parking is what this pandemic is all about.

Your logic is wrong. I enjoy current parking and traffic situations, but i don\'t believe it should or will continue this way. How it that self centered?

Many office buildings are empty now and probably will never be occupied again. This cannot be a healthy city. City government living on ticket revenues can\'t last forever.

The city population density needs to be reduced and we need to reshape the area somehow. We just have to deal with the issues sooner or later.

I don\'t encourage people to protest the stay at home order. But i don\'t encourage blind strict enforcement either.

This is silly. You want strict enforcement, where it matters, for the 14 days it takes to make sure that anybody who has the infection has manifested it by testing positive for the presence of the virus.

Not enough districts in the US have done the kind of contact tracing that lets them quarantine only the people who might be infected for the 14 days from when they might have got infected.

We have been shut-down for many times of 14 days, but the virus is not going away. The 14 days period was and is just a guess. How is Australia and Beijing dealing with renew cases anyway? Contract tracing is not possible in many part of the world, including Beijing. We are way pass that point. You guys keep repeating meaningless phases.

Not to worry, the virus will suddenly be down the memory hole as
soon as the election\'s over, not a problem at all.

During H1N1 the Obama-Biden administration stopped counting cases.

quote
\"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there\'s an epidemic?

Some public health officials privately disagreed with the decision to stop testing and counting, telling CBS News that continued tracking of this new and possibly changing virus was important because H1N1 has a different epidemiology, affects younger people more than seasonal flu and has been shown to have a higher case fatality rate than other flu virus strains.\"
/quote
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/swine-flu-cases-overestimated/

Can you imagine if this president did the same?

Apparently now we\'re supposed to permanently shut down the world every
time there\'s a virus anywhere. I\'m not sure people have thought this
thing through...

Cheers,
James Arthur

Looks like it has burned out in New York, as it did in many European
countries. You can\'t have 20% of a population infected, for two or
three weeks each maybe, forever, even if the herd immunity level were
100%. Which of course it isn\'t.

The characteristic new-case waveform seems to be a rounded hump (dare
I say Gaussian?) of width 5 weeks or so. Lockdowns no doubt extend the
tail and cause secondary blips when inevitably mis-managed.

The up-swing in the US south may well be caused by air conditioning.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/

Australia and S Africa and Paraguay seem to be having winter bumps.

The head of the CDC commented that they think the bump in the South
coincided with Memorial Day crowds of northerners, vacationing.

I\'ve just gotten word that despite being locked down in a lock-down
state to the point of lock-down insanity, Mom\'s been exposed. So now
the wait begins.

These half-witted faux-science worshippers who haven\'t let us get
national immunity may have killed her, just as I predicted months
ago.

I\'m sorry for your mom. Even in the older age groups it is only serious 20% of the time or so. Hope she gets better or even has no real symptoms.

Yeah, I feel your pain. The faux-science worshipers will make this disease as bad as it could be. I wish people would ignore the idiots and take the advice of the real scientists like Fauci.

You mean the same Fauci who said we shouldn\'t wear face coverings but
now says the opposite? Who told President Trump it was likely to be
like a bad seasonal flu? (Which is still likely -- flu\'s no joke.)
Who advised us that we needn\'t be concerned? Who said it was contained?
Then told us we\'d have to be locked-down forever?

I like Fauci but he\'s not God, he\'s just a guy, and he\'s not better than
common sense. Wash your hands, don\'t touch your face. If you\'re sick,
stay home. If you\'ve been exposed, self-isolate. Don\'t cough on people,
that\'s rude.

People like Navarro will be the death of us all.

I think it might be wise to leave this country and only return after the US quarantine is lifted. I\'m not talking about the US imposing a quarantine on the residents, I\'m talking about the quarantine the rest of the world will be imposing on this country. Consider how bad the economy will be then!

If we\'d allowed the 2/3rds of society we know aren\'t badly affected to
go about their business normally, this thing would\'ve been over months
ago and our senior citizens safe.


James Arthur

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 16/07/20 06:32, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

E.g., why would someone on the dole ever work for something they
already get free? It doesn\'t make any sense.

True for some people, false for many more.

Many people feel defined by their work, and feel
pointless without it. Such people have a tendency
to \"give up and die\" relatively shortly after
retiring.

You seem to understand Theory X companies, but
have no clue about Theory Y companies, as described
by McGregor in the 1950s.

Long before McGregor, Hewlett and Packard knew the
difference instinctively, and created a rather
successful Theory Y company. You may have heard
of it.

\"Theory Y managers assume employees are internally
motivated, enjoy their job, and work to better
themselves without a direct reward in return. These
managers view their employees as one of the most
valuable assets to the company, driving the internal
workings of the corporation. Employees additionally
tend to take full responsibility for their work and
do not need close supervision to create a quality
product.\"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_Theory_Y

Or, as famously noted at the time of Princess Fiorina,
http://www.satirewire.com/news/0105/loyal.shtml

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 16/07/20 06:32, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

E.g., why would someone on the dole ever work for something they
already get free? It doesn\'t make any sense.

True for some people, false for many more.

Many people feel defined by their work, and feel
pointless without it. Such people have a tendency
to \"give up and die\" relatively shortly after
retiring.

You seem to understand Theory X companies, but
have no clue about Theory Y companies, as described
by McGregor in the 1950s.

Long before McGregor, Hewlett and Packard knew the
difference instinctively, and created a rather
successful Theory Y company. You may have heard
of it.

\"Theory Y managers assume employees are internally
motivated, enjoy their job, and work to better
themselves without a direct reward in return. These
managers view their employees as one of the most
valuable assets to the company, driving the internal
workings of the corporation. Employees additionally
tend to take full responsibility for their work and
do not need close supervision to create a quality
product.\"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_Theory_Y

Or, as famously noted at the time of Princess Fiorina,
http://www.satirewire.com/news/0105/loyal.shtml