Circular saw won't ground, safe?

[toller]

"Robatoy" <design@BULLtopworks.ca> wrote in message
news:design-A88FD1.10373016052005@nr-tor01.bellnexxia.net...

In article <ZN1ie.316$fW3.192@news02.roc.ny>,
"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote:

I asked you:
How about you?

Answer that first.

Do you realize you replied to your own dumb comment?

Hint; "everyone knows" is not a documented fact.

Sometimes both are one and the same.

Sure, occasionally, but it is still never used in an intelligent discussion.

For instance:

Everyone knows you don't know what you're talking about AND the group
has a documented paper-trail of what you have been posting.

Besides, I never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Hey, my 9 year old said the same thing to a friend the other day!

END of discussion with you.

So, you concede you can't come up with a single fact. Then stop posting.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <ZN1ie.316$fW3.192@news02.roc.ny>, "toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote:

Aside from being an electrical engineer?

The closest you've ever come to being an "electrical engineer" is driving a
Lionel train when you were a kid. You don't even know the difference between
neutral and ground.

(or receiving dozens of 120v shocks
without any ill-effects?)

The ill-effects are obvious in your posts.

Without waving your hands and throwing another hissy-fit, dispute one single
thing I have said with documented facts. Do so, and I will never post
regarding electrical issues again.

The world could only be so lucky. It's been documented already, pretty
thoroughly, in this thread. Go read some of the responses to your posts.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

 

[Robatoy]

In article <Yy2ie.1302$8g.322@news01.roc.ny>,
"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote:

Besides, I never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Hey, my 9 year old said the same thing to a friend the other day!

I guess he also taught you how to have an intelligent discussion?

END of discussion with you.

So, you concede you can't come up with a single fact. Then stop posting.

I conceded nothing. If you think you can get people to respect you
around here by putting words in my mouth, guess again.

I said I wasn't discussing anything with you, and I really must move on
to things that need my attention. Please stop replying to my posts,
because every time you do, I read them, thinking that you may have seen
the errors of your ways and apologized like a man for offering wrong
advice on electrical matters here and in previous threads.

Best not be holding my breath, eh?

Go play with your 9 year old. You can still impress humans at that age.

 

[toller]

"Robatoy" <design@BULLtopworks.ca> wrote in message
news:design-F95B0C.12562616052005@news.bellglobal.com...

In article <Yy2ie.1302$8g.322@news01.roc.ny>,
"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote:

Besides, I never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Hey, my 9 year old said the same thing to a friend the other day!

I guess he also taught you how to have an intelligent discussion?



END of discussion with you.

So, you concede you can't come up with a single fact. Then stop posting.

I conceded nothing. If you think you can get people to respect you
around here by putting words in my mouth, guess again.

I said I wasn't discussing anything with you, and I really must move on
to things that need my attention. Please stop replying to my posts,
because every time you do, I read them, thinking that you may have seen
the errors of your ways and apologized like a man for offering wrong
advice on electrical matters here and in previous threads.

Best not be holding my breath, eh?

Go play with your 9 year old. You can still impress humans at that age.

You have plenty of time to babble; just no time for facts. Hmm.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 09:05:54 -0700, Dr.Anton wrote:

In article <1116159867.dda65d992f7a2135aa9763b69aaf9081@bubbanews>,
bravecat@gmail.com says...

Is it safe to operate an all alloy housing circular saw. My 15-year old
industrial saw is reliable but the only thing aging is the cord. The
cord's insulation is cracking and deteriorating. Last I'd check the
ground wire is open but hidden from view. What would be the hazards if I
continue to use it?

You would be risking a fatal electrical shock, should the saw
develop an internal insulation fault (as it very well could if it's that
old).

Replace the cord completely. If you lack the requisite skill
and/or tools to do so properly, you should take the unit to a professional
repair shop. Any place that repairs power tools should be able to handle
it.

I'm with Dr. Anton on this one.

Replace the cord.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:46:09 +0000, toller wrote:

"spudnuty" <spudnuty@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1116169743.470050.316980@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
It is quite an easy matter to replace the power cord and ground but even
with a grounded device you're depending on a chain of secure grounds to
keep your tool safe. I would also obtain a GFCI pigtail and only run
your power tools from that. They're required on all jobsites I've been
on and all the electrocutions I've studied have been from workmen
bypassing them.
Richard


A couple years ago I moved an outlet by putting a hand on each side,
contacting the hot with one and the neutral with the other. (I thought
"the other guy" had opened the breaker) I was rather surprised to be alive
and unhurt afterwards. I did some research and found out it is almost
impossible to get a lethal shock from 120v under normal circumstances.
Virtually all the electrocutions on record have been from 4000v or higher.

Accordingly, I am wondering about those fatal accidents you have studied.
If my understanding is incorrect, I certainly want to get it adjusted.
(no, I do not treat 120v casually; "almost impossible" means it is
possible...)

When I was in tech school, one of the teachers said, "Suppose you're
working inside a transmitter chassis, and you bump up against the 12V
filament supply, get a tingle and flinch, knocking your hand into the
4KV plate supply.

"Which one killed you?"

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 03:12:51 +0000, Leon wrote:

"CW" <cmagers@earthlink.net> wrote in message
newshLhe.999$Lc1.846@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Glad I'm not the only one that does that.

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:zUKhe.46$uH2.12@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

Hell, I check before touching even when *I* am the guy
that opened the breaker - just to make sure I opened the right one.


And who says the breaker box was labeled correctly or labeled at all.

That's what voltmeters are for. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 12:08:58 -0400, George wrote:

"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:59Khe.270$%k3.140@news02.roc.ny...

A couple years ago I moved an outlet by putting a hand on each side,
contacting the hot with one and the neutral with the other. (I thought
"the
other guy" had opened the breaker) I was rather surprised to be alive
and unhurt afterwards. I did some research and found out it is almost
impossible to get a lethal shock from 120v under normal circumstances.
Virtually all the electrocutions on record have been from 4000v or
higher.

Accordingly, I am wondering about those fatal accidents you have
studied. If my understanding is incorrect, I certainly want to get it
adjusted.
(no,
I do not treat 120v casually; "almost impossible" means it is
possible...)



Your heart operates on considerably less potential. You're betting that
the jolt won't find the proper pathway to interfere or stop it? Foolish
wager.

Two in my experience on 120 Volts, but that's 50% of electrocution
fatalities I've had.

When I was an electronics tech in the US Air Force, one of the stories
that circulated was some guy who killed himself with a PSM-6 VOM. They
come with sets of different probes, one of which is needle-sharp. It
seems he wanted to measure his body resistance, so he took a probe in
each hand and punctured his thumbs. Oh, yeah - on the higher-resistance
ranges, that meter uses a 9- or 12-volt battery. Poking through his
skin to the wet parts let more than 15 mA go through his heart. I
don't know how to find out if this was true or just a scare story.
We also were required to take off all rings and watches, and it
was strongly recommended to put one hand in your pocket.

There was also the UL about the guy who ohmed out the igniter on
an AIM-7 or AIM-9 missile, and the fins cut off both of his hands.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 12:07:53 -0400, Norman D. Crow wrote:

"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote in message
"spudnuty" <spudnuty@lycos.com> wrote in message

It is quite an easy matter to replace the power cord and ground but
even with a grounded device you're depending on a chain of secure
grounds to keep your tool safe. I would also obtain a GFCI pigtail and
only run your power tools from that. They're required on all jobsites
I've been on and all the electrocutions I've studied have been from
workmen bypassing them.
Richard

A couple years ago I moved an outlet by putting a hand on each side,
contacting the hot with one and the neutral with the other. (I thought
"the other guy" had opened the breaker) I was rather surprised to be
alive and unhurt afterwards. I did some research and found out it is
almost impossible to get a lethal shock from 120v under normal
circumstances. Virtually all the electrocutions on record have been from
4000v or higher.

IT ISN'T THE VOLTAGE! When I was in USN, they had studies showing deaths
from relatively low voltages. It's the amps, or more precisely the
milliamps, and where they travel. A certain milliamp current can be lethal
if it passes through the heart/chest area because it will cause the heart
to go into fibrillation, while a relatively high current may just cause
the heart to stop, but once it is removed the heart will restart on it's
own. I don't remember the exact numbers, but seems like it was around the
90-100 milliamp range that was lethal due to causing fibrillation.

It's a common myth that a defribrillator (like you see on TeeVee, when
they go "CLEAR!" and zap the guy) "jump-starts" the patient's heart. It
actually does the opposite. The heart is in fibrillation, and the jolt
from the defibrillator causes the heart to cramp up momentarily, stopping
the fibrillation. That is, it actually kills the guy. But an otherwise
relatively normal heart will restart itself spontaneously, as you've noted.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Apostrophe Police]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:49:00 +0000, BobS wrote:

information once in awhile instead of alway's arguing a point.

There is no apostrophe in the word "always".
--
Rich Grise, Self-Appointed Chief,
Apostrophe Police

 

[David Harmon]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:08:51 GMT in sci.electronics.basics, "Leon"
<removespamlcb11211@swbell.net> wrote,

After a delivery truck hit a power pole and knocked down some power lines I
questioned the gentleman managing and keeping an eye on the crew repairing
the power lines. He indicated that 220 is more likely to get you as it
tends to hold on to you. The much higher voltage lines will more likely
throw you away.

The dorm cafeteria where I went to college had toasters that ran on
220V. I really used to cringe when I saw people stick forks into them
to retrieve stuck pieces of toast. I guess that is routine in the UK
though.

 

[Andy Dingley]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:12:21 GMT, David Harmon <source@netcom.com>
wrote:

The dorm cafeteria where I went to college had toasters that ran on
220V. I really used to cringe when I saw people stick forks into them
to retrieve stuck pieces of toast. I guess that is routine in the UK
though.

It's hardly _routine_ to stick forks into live toasters. Few people do
it more than once.

(Actually it's pretty safe. Only a real moron does it when they're hot
and when the power is off, the elements are isolated. Toaster makers
_know_ that there will be fools poking Darwin's Fork where they
shouldn't, and they do try to take account of this)


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

 

[Duane Bozarth]

Rich Grise wrote:
....

When I was an electronics tech in the US Air Force, ...
We also were required to take off all rings and watches, and it
was strongly recommended to put one hand in your pocket.

There was also the UL about the guy who ohmed out the igniter on
an AIM-7 or AIM-9 missile, and the fins cut off both of his hands.

Did he then keep one of them in his pocket?

 

[Leon]

"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.05.16.18.31.39.358520@example.net...

When I was in tech school, one of the teachers said, "Suppose you're
working inside a transmitter chassis, and you bump up against the 12V
filament supply, get a tingle and flinch, knocking your hand into the
4KV plate supply.

"Which one killed you?"

If you could answer the question, neither killed you. ;~)

If you have a brain transplant, do you end up with a different brain or a
different body?

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Bob Haar]

On 2005/5/15 12:52 PM, "toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote:

don't remember the exact numbers, but seems like it was around the 90-100
milliamp range that was lethal due to causing fibrillation.

You are correct; 100ma is about the lethal threashold. But it is difficult
to get 100ma off 120v unless you are in saltwater.
Naturally adverse medical conditions, or just plain bad luck, will change
everything!

The situation that you described is worse than standing in salt water. If
you really had one hand on the Hot and the other on the Neutral, then the
current went right through your chest.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <42892549.1975F6CF@swko.dot.net>, dp_bozarth@swko.dot.net wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:
....
When I was an electronics tech in the US Air Force, ...
We also were required to take off all rings and watches, and it
was strongly recommended to put one hand in your pocket.

There was also the UL about the guy who ohmed out the igniter on
an AIM-7 or AIM-9 missile, and the fins cut off both of his hands.

Did he then keep one of them in his pocket?

DUH! *Both* of them!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

 

[Duane Bozarth]

Doug Miller wrote:

In article <42892549.1975F6CF@swko.dot.net>, dp_bozarth@swko.dot.net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
....
When I was an electronics tech in the US Air Force, ...
We also were required to take off all rings and watches, and it
was strongly recommended to put one hand in your pocket.

There was also the UL about the guy who ohmed out the igniter on
an AIM-7 or AIM-9 missile, and the fins cut off both of his hands.

Did he then keep one of them in his pocket?

DUH! *Both* of them!

But that would have been against the reg's...

 

[Robatoy]

In article <m01ie.611$Wp.193598@news20.bellglobal.com>,
WillR <woodworker.dont@spam.us.pmccl.com> wrote:

Good advice Doug. I do triple checks and am used the the rolled eyes
from "knowledgeable" people. F** em. It's less stress to do what you
suggest, and it's better advice to give.

Hear hear!

 

[Robatoy]

In article <dLPhe.108$Nj3.23@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>,
spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

In fact, I do more than that: I plug my tester into something that I'm sure
*is* live, to make sure it lights up when it's supposed to, before using on
something that I believe to be not live.

That's exactly the same thing I do. I don't even trust voltmeters or
testers. I want to see them work first.
THAT is how electricity is handled.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:57:23 +0000, Leon wrote:

"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.05.16.18.31.39.358520@example.net...

When I was in tech school, one of the teachers said, "Suppose you're
working inside a transmitter chassis, and you bump up against the 12V
filament supply, get a tingle and flinch, knocking your hand into the
4KV plate supply.

"Which one killed you?"

If you could answer the question, neither killed you. ;~)

If you have a brain transplant, do you end up with a different brain or a
different body?

I guess that depends on which you believe is "you". ;-)

Here's an interesting experiment. Close your eyes, and say "Me", while
simultaneously pointing at yourself. Hold that position, and open your
eyes.

Where is your finger pointing?

Cheers!
Rich