Circuit minimization

R. Steve Walz · May 17, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:49:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:23:26 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote:
[snip]
See- I warned you about that pill....

Ehhhh? I think it's YOU that needs to check his pills ;-)

...Jim Thompson

LOL!!- The only pills I take are an occasional vitamin-C....

Are you still saying that BC' + AC + AB is not correct? <Big Frown

Better double-up on the vitamin-C ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Nevermind! Duh! I overlooked minimal :-(

I'll plead that it was a pill problem ;-)

Doc took me off of Atenolol on Friday since it wasn't controlling my
BP and put me on atacand HCT.

Saturday night had a rebound effect from going off of Atenolol and
went tachycardia (100 BPS).

Added back in 1/2 dose of Atenolol and will wean slowly.

Everything seems OK now.

...Jim Thompson
----------------

Fire your doctor. Any idiot knows that a selective beta blocker
like atenolol produces a significant tolerance and when withdrawn
causes rebound tachycardia!! You have to be VERY careful and do
this gradually!

Still, 100 b/s isn't much.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

Tony Williams · May 17, 2004

In article <pplfa09vggl0o23voqoh8rt5jjk0bqn39d@4ax.com>,
John Larkin wrote:

My doctor (a very nice Chinese lady) put me on Atenolol. It's a
beta blocker and makes bp go down by reducing heart output. That
made me get so easily winded that I couldn't get any decent
exercize, which makes one get fat, raising bp! Not good to mess
with your heart!

General practitioners do seem to jump into the beta-blocker
route as the first line easy solution. One trial of Atenolol
was enough for me, never again. ISTM that reducing the heart
output could well be an easy way of mending the symptoms,
without actually tackling the underlying problem.

One full day in a cardiology dept (being poked prodded and
scanned) was time well spent. Their diagnostic tests
suggested a 3-pill cocktail, no beta-blocker, and all drugs
related to reducing pressure in the arterial system. The
GP stopped fiddling about with this and that, and followed
their reccommendations. Problem solved. No side effects.

--
Tony Williams.

Fred Bloggs · May 17, 2004

John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 10:26:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Doc took me off of Atenolol on Friday since it wasn't controlling my
BP and put me on atacand HCT.

Saturday night had a rebound effect from going off of Atenolol and
went tachycardia (100 BPS).

Added back in 1/2 dose of Atenolol and will wean slowly.

Everything seems OK now.

...Jim Thompson

My doctor (a very nice Chinese lady) put me on Atenolol. It's a beta
blocker and makes bp go down by reducing heart output. That made me
get so easily winded that I couldn't get any decent exercize, which
makes one get fat, raising bp! Not good to mess with your heart!

Now I'm taking cheap stuff, an ace inhibitor and a diuretic, and they
work great for me. I tune the dosage to just below the point when I
fall over getting out of a chair or bed. 115/75 is easy, with a little
exercize and weight control. Some MDs think everybody over 45 should
take these routinely, along with aspirin and a statin.

I am on the verge of hbp and sometimes get non-stop arrhythmia if I miss
doing exercise- but if I exercise there is no problem and no afternoon
slump. You have to make the exercise burn- and run the heart rate up-
the best resistance movements are the large muscle group strainers: full
squats, presses, and dead lifts- would not waste time on the designer
junk like curls and raises- the best abdominal exercise is the
knee-tuck-crunch while suspended from parallel bars- I almost never do
situps or regular crunches- and those parallel bar things- maybe a dozen
daily- keep my abs strong enough to easily do a regular crunch with 150
lbs barbell plates stacked on my chest. If you go to it and keep moving-
you can get an excellent workout in about 30 minutes and be done with
it- but cardio must be done daily.

John Larkin · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:41:25 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

I am on the verge of hbp and sometimes get non-stop arrhythmia if I miss
doing exercise- but if I exercise there is no problem and no afternoon
slump. You have to make the exercise burn- and run the heart rate up-
the best resistance movements are the large muscle group strainers: full
squats, presses, and dead lifts- would not waste time on the designer
junk like curls and raises- the best abdominal exercise is the
knee-tuck-crunch while suspended from parallel bars- I almost never do
situps or regular crunches- and those parallel bar things- maybe a dozen
daily- keep my abs strong enough to easily do a regular crunch with 150
lbs barbell plates stacked on my chest. If you go to it and keep moving-
you can get an excellent workout in about 30 minutes and be done with
it- but cardio must be done daily.

I just park about 9 blocks, roughly 500 vertical feet, from work. The
hike uphill at the end of the day is mandatory... there's no way to
skip it short of sleeping over at work. The scenery is distracting
from the essential boredom of getting exercize.

High bp is a killer, and I see no reason not to do whatever it takes -
exercize, diet, drugs - to see as much of the future as possible.

John

John Larkin · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 03:01:52 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

Still, 100 b/s isn't much.

Surely those engineering units can't be correct!

John

Jim Thompson · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 08:14:46 +0100, Tony Williams
<tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <pplfa09vggl0o23voqoh8rt5jjk0bqn39d@4ax.com>,
John Larkin wrote:

My doctor (a very nice Chinese lady) put me on Atenolol. It's a
beta blocker and makes bp go down by reducing heart output. That
made me get so easily winded that I couldn't get any decent
exercize, which makes one get fat, raising bp! Not good to mess
with your heart!

General practitioners do seem to jump into the beta-blocker
route as the first line easy solution.

Actually it was my cardiologist who prescribed Atenolol. But then he
was the jerk who prescribed Lipitor even though I had excellent
cholesterol readings.

One trial of Atenolol
was enough for me, never again.

I tolerated it well, though my wife almost fainted when they tried
Atenolol on her.

ISTM that reducing the heart
output could well be an easy way of mending the symptoms,
without actually tackling the underlying problem.

One full day in a cardiology dept (being poked prodded and
scanned) was time well spent. Their diagnostic tests
suggested a 3-pill cocktail, no beta-blocker, and all drugs
related to reducing pressure in the arterial system. The
GP stopped fiddling about with this and that, and followed
their reccommendations. Problem solved. No side effects.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Richard Henry · May 17, 2004

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:9ejha0l6il4ikoj0i1d68vdld2q7r008a6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:41:25 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote:

I am on the verge of hbp and sometimes get non-stop arrhythmia if I miss
doing exercise- but if I exercise there is no problem and no afternoon
slump. You have to make the exercise burn- and run the heart rate up-
the best resistance movements are the large muscle group strainers: full
squats, presses, and dead lifts- would not waste time on the designer
junk like curls and raises- the best abdominal exercise is the
knee-tuck-crunch while suspended from parallel bars- I almost never do
situps or regular crunches- and those parallel bar things- maybe a dozen
daily- keep my abs strong enough to easily do a regular crunch with 150
lbs barbell plates stacked on my chest. If you go to it and keep moving-
you can get an excellent workout in about 30 minutes and be done with
it- but cardio must be done daily.

I just park about 9 blocks, roughly 500 vertical feet, from work. The
hike uphill at the end of the day is mandatory... there's no way to
skip it short of sleeping over at work. The scenery is distracting
from the essential boredom of getting exercize.

High bp is a killer, and I see no reason not to do whatever it takes -
exercize, diet, drugs - to see as much of the future as possible.

How about getting a handicapped placard and parking closer?

Tony Williams · May 17, 2004

In article <00lha0p0k5rb96gnv83t2hjahe715psnjv@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

What three-pill cocktail were you prescribed?

2.5mg Bendrofluazide.

10mg Istin (Amlodipine).

150mg Irbesartan.

So-so improvement initially, then the 5mg per
day Istin was increased to 10mg. Got the result.

Overall average daily bp is 130/85, but can be
115/72 just after mowing the lawn..... and even
lower after the odd glass of wine (or three).

Everyone's cocktail will be different of course.

--
Tony Williams.

John Larkin · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 08:11:58 -0700, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com>
wrote:

How about getting a handicapped placard and parking closer?

I have a "J" sticker, a neighborhood parking permit, so I can park
close to work if I want. But my intentions are noble in the morning,
I'm fresh and and the walk is downhill, so I park up high. After work,
when I'm tired and want to get home, it's too late to change my mind.

If exercize is so good for you, why does it feel so bad?

John

Soeren · May 17, 2004

Hi Michael,

Naw, not really. Here we always interpose a latch between
combinatorial and down-stream stuff.

So much for optimisation to minimal circuitry ;-P

What you do is a bit more waistful than securing the outputs in the first
place, but each to his own ways

--
Regards,
Soeren

* If it puzzles you dear... Reverse engineer *

Soeren · May 17, 2004

Hi Richard,

Where did D come from?

I had it up my sleeve

Nah, to pinpoint the place where hazard was a possibility, I used the
names from a 4-variable Karnaugh diagram, as I am sure you all knew what I
ment (perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, if so - excuse me).

--
Regards,
Soeren

* If it puzzles you dear... Reverse engineer *

Jim Thompson · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:19:29 +0000 (UTC), Soeren
<Look@iNO-SPAMt.dk.invalid> wrote:

Hi Michael,

Naw, not really. Here we always interpose a latch between
combinatorial and down-stream stuff.

So much for optimisation to minimal circuitry ;-P

What you do is a bit more waistful than securing the outputs in the first
place, but each to his own ways

Well, duh! ANY combinational logic inherently has glitches UNLESS
either (1) the inputs are sequenced (say with multiple clocks) or (2)
the outputs are strobed during a period that inputs are not changing.

Looks like you've never designed a disaster and gained what we old
farts call "experience" ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Richard Henry · May 17, 2004

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:rfnha0hfh9u76na0rfcdlk9si1uevm6sab@4ax.com...

On Mon, 17 May 2004 08:11:58 -0700, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com
wrote:

How about getting a handicapped placard and parking closer?

I have a "J" sticker, a neighborhood parking permit, so I can park
close to work if I want. But my intentions are noble in the morning,
I'm fresh and and the walk is downhill, so I park up high. After work,
when I'm tired and want to get home, it's too late to change my mind.

Your memory (of yesterday's uphill walk, for instance) is also failing,
apparently.

Richard Henry · May 17, 2004

"Soeren" <Look@iNO-SPAMt.dk.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns94ECBA68010B2o8oLOOKatHOMEo8o@212.242.40.196...

Hi Michael,

Naw, not really. Here we always interpose a latch between
combinatorial and down-stream stuff.

So much for optimisation to minimal circuitry ;-P

"Minimal circuitry" menas different things to different people. In all but
the simplest cases, I design for synchronous logic, which assumes there will
be a race-preventing latch somewhere in the stream.

John Larkin · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:51:33 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Well, duh! ANY combinational logic inherently has glitches UNLESS
either (1) the inputs are sequenced (say with multiple clocks) or (2)
the outputs are strobed during a period that inputs are not changing.

or (3) you hang a big capacitor from output to ground.

John

Jim Thompson · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:53:04 -0700, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com>
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:rfnha0hfh9u76na0rfcdlk9si1uevm6sab@4ax.com...
On Mon, 17 May 2004 08:11:58 -0700, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com
wrote:

How about getting a handicapped placard and parking closer?

I have a "J" sticker, a neighborhood parking permit, so I can park
close to work if I want. But my intentions are noble in the morning,
I'm fresh and and the walk is downhill, so I park up high. After work,
when I'm tired and want to get home, it's too late to change my mind.

Your memory (of yesterday's uphill walk, for instance) is also failing,
apparently.

As long as you do it daily, it's not a bad memory.

I try to daily walk down the hill to the community mailboxes and then
walk back up (600' and 30' rise), but I often just make it a stop as
I'm driving somewhere :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:06:36 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:51:33 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Well, duh! ANY combinational logic inherently has glitches UNLESS
either (1) the inputs are sequenced (say with multiple clocks) or (2)
the outputs are strobed during a period that inputs are not changing.

or (3) you hang a big capacitor from output to ground.

John

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Richard Henry · May 17, 2004

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:56sha057knt2cn7a66uratd2fi3ac4o96c@4ax.com...

On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:51:33 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Well, duh! ANY combinational logic inherently has glitches UNLESS
either (1) the inputs are sequenced (say with multiple clocks) or (2)
the outputs are strobed during a period that inputs are not changing.

or (3) you hang a big capacitor from output to ground.

I went to a job interview once where the chief engineer (a big, bearded
biker that everyone in the comapny called "Mad Dog") wanted to be sure that
I didn't design digital circuits with capacitive delay elements. Since then
my friends and I called such parts Mad Dogs. We would score each other's
designs on the number of Mad Dogs required to get the thing to work
reliably.

Coincidentally, about the same time, a friend had to redesign a digital
filter design that had been "tuned" with pots and caps all over the board.
While the engineering prototype worked flawlessly, the design did not
survive the transfer to production.

Richard Henry · May 17, 2004

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:r3sha0hjknlkppd42sd40monnia7b1lj61@4ax.com...

I try to daily walk down the hill to the community mailboxes and then
walk back up (600' and 30' rise), but I often just make it a stop as
I'm driving somewhere :-(

After I "retired" last October, i started running 3-5 miles several mornings
a week. Recently, my wife has had me working on a variety of
home-improvement projects which more than replace the aerobic intensity of
the running.

Jim Thompson · May 17, 2004

On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:51:31 -0700, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com>
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:56sha057knt2cn7a66uratd2fi3ac4o96c@4ax.com...
On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:51:33 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Well, duh! ANY combinational logic inherently has glitches UNLESS
either (1) the inputs are sequenced (say with multiple clocks) or (2)
the outputs are strobed during a period that inputs are not changing.

or (3) you hang a big capacitor from output to ground.

I went to a job interview once where the chief engineer (a big, bearded
biker that everyone in the comapny called "Mad Dog") wanted to be sure that
I didn't design digital circuits with capacitive delay elements.
[snip]

I knew a fellow like that, named Ed Greenwood (now deceased), at
GenRad, big (as in >> 300#), bearded, quite tall.

He was noted for *dragging* a car out of his reserved parking space by
simply throwing a chain around the axle and pulling it out into the
aisle-way. Turned out to be a customer's rental car ;-)

He'd kill you if you used a one-shot anywhere!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Circuit minimization

R. Steve Walz

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Tony Williams

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