Christmas vs "Holidays"

[Chrissy Cruiser]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:06:02 GMT, Rich Grise wrote:

What I don't get is why they call his execution day "Good" anything!

Becasue it was only bad for Him.

 

[Bob Stephens]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:17:54 -0600, pfriedmanNoSpam wrote:

"James A. Doemer" <jdjunkmail@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:N4Vvd.66$9j5.37@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...



Christmas isn't even the birthday of Christ and was hijacked early
Christians to compete with far older pagan holidays. (Saturnus) It's the
Christians that have been substituting irrelevant religious concoctions
for
perfectly wonderful pagan holidays. According to even your own bible,
the
shepperds were tending their flock at the time of the birth of Christ.
This is a SPRING event, not a winter event. Additionally, the bible
clearly states that Herod was alive when Christ was born, and we know that
Herod died in 4 B.C. Given the clues in the Bible, and our current
archeological knowlege, Christ was born something in mid-April or May,
between 6 and 4 B.C.

Class is dismissed.


When Christianity was being highjacked from being a Jewish Cult, one of the
major mystery cults on the Empire was Mithraism. This cult was probably the
strongest belief in the Legions. For obvious reasons, the Christian Church
fathers decided that Mithras' birthday (December 25) would be a good day to
use for itself. Mithras was associated with the Sun (as opposed to Son).

Mithras also died to save mankind and rose again, he was the son of tithe
chief God and a virgin human mother and acted as an interceder on behalf of
man and was associated with a trinity. As with many other mystery cults, the
rites included drinking his blood (wine) and eating his flesh (bread).

Some believers had him dying on a cross; standard beliefs had him
participate in a Last Supper (with a companion for each Sign of the
Zodiac -- no 13th one here!).

Mithraism originated in Persia from the same roots as Zoroastrianism.

So, ya, The Feast of Saturn might have had something to do with the
Christians picking 25 December, but I would wager that they saw Mithraism's
festivals and trappings as a more important and tempting target.

Paul

Interesting stuff. Should make for great conversation over the Christmas
dinner table... I'll have to study up. I don't suppose they had any carols
or snazzy holiday jingles?

Bob
(Born again Pagan)

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that pfriedmanNoSpam <p.paulfriedmanNoS
pam@comcast.net> wrote (in <kqednbPCrJ8g7F3cRVn-ow@comcast.com&gt about
'Christmas vs "Holidays"', on Wed, 15 Dec 2004:


So, ya, The Feast of Saturn might have had something to do with the
Christians picking 25 December, but I would wager that they saw
Mithraism's festivals and trappings as a more important and tempting
target.


By the standards of the time, Mithras was quite a benign god, too.

A quick roundup of religion and theology
http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Ginohn/cetera/hankisms.html

"Greco-Roman - Hank and his dysfunctional family are suffering from some trust
issues, and aren't giving out any money. It doesn't matter whose ass you kiss;
the others will kick the shit out of you. "

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[George Leppla]

"Dillon Pyron" <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> wrote

There are several Christian sects that, in fact, ignore Christmas but
celebrate Easter as a time of joy. I believe both the Mennonites and
the Amish believe this, as do some Pentacostals.

I can't speak for the Pentacostals, but the Amish and Mennonites here in PA
have strong Christmas traditions and celebrations.

http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amishchristmas.htm

The Mennonites tend to be more like mainstream Christians in the way they
celebrate Christmas while the Amish celebrations are more in line with their
usual religious "meetings". The biggest difference is that most Amish sects
do not have churches... meeting to worship in each other's homes on a
rotating basis.

But both definitely celebrate Christmas.


--
George in PA http://www.countryside-travel.com


The Mother of All Group Cruises http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com
Miracle in May - http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm
September - Triumph Canada/NE - http://www.cruisemaster.com/carnivalFall.htm
October - Princess Caribbean http://www.cruisemaster.com/caribprin.htm

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

pfriedmanNoSpam wrote:

But a terrible misogynist. There is reason to believe that Christianity won
because of its popularity with women -- who were excluded from worshipping
Mithras.

Frying pan, fire...

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[CLV3]

The code word "holiday" season is coming into
increasing use in an effort to minimize the influence the Truths that were
taught by the Prince of Peace.

I myself was raised catholic yet I do not get offended when people refer to
it as holliday or xmas or whatever. Who cares? Even us Christians have
historically stolen others traditions and shaped it into our own thing. Do
you think the Christmas tree is a Christian idea? Hardly. We have all stolen
ideas, traditions, and beliefs. The important thing is the end result is the
kind of effect that it all has on us as a human race.

 

[Clarence]

"CLV3" <clvoyer3@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Q47wd.14891$sr2.641@trndny02...

Get serious. Christians adopted the winter solstice as their own. If you
are
a Christian I'm sure you are aware that Christ was born in the spring of
the
year not in winter. Things like greenery in buildings, decking halls and
decorating trees predate Christianity but have been adopted by them. Palm
trees would be more appropriate as true Christmas trees as a symbol of the
holy land. Snow and all that goes with it is not Christian either.
Northern
tales of elves, reindeer and jolly men in red suits, likewise aren't
Christian. People always adopt local traditions, holidays and pageants as
their own. Get over it and enjoy the holidays for what they are. Remember
there are two s'es in Chri$tma$ and they are both dollar signs! Now go buy
some gifts.
Bob

Ummm last I knew (and saying this as a Christian but from a purely honest,
realistic and factual standpoint) there are NO documents stating when Christ
was supposedly born. Could be any time..... So it just happens to be
December 25th that we celebrate Christmas but his real birthday could even
have been in June.

So the Bible doesn't count either. I understand that. But Shepard's in the

fields doesn't sound like the first day of winter either.
BUT; I wasn't there anymore than you were!

Try
http://www.bible.ca/D-Xmas-story.htm
for a discussion on the lack of a date.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Melissa Warner
<warnermelissa@comcast.net> wrote (in <uaudnfMo-qnUgVzcRVn-
qQ@comcast.com&gt about 'Christmas vs "Holidays"', on Wed, 15 Dec 2004:

On a genealogical note, I have noticed quite a few of my New England
ancestors in the eighteenth century got married on December 25. Is that
likely just a family tradition, or does anyone know if that is
associated with a certain church or geographical region?

Many people had only that one opportunity to get an 11-day honeymoon. No
summer holidays if you had the farm to tend.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Paul Burke]

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:

"In the Norse Sagas we are told that boar was eaten at this time of
year, and that it was sworn oaths upon.

The meat at the Valhalla feast was apparently a magical boar called
Sejm. Eaten every night, it was miraculously renewed the next day. So,
Hrafn, what's for dinner today? Sejm again, Hrothnar.

Paul Burke

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote
(in <32cvgvF3jn9l5U1@individual.net&gt about 'Christmas vs "Holidays"',
on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:

"In the Norse Sagas we are told that boar was eaten at this time of
year, and that it was sworn oaths upon.

The meat at the Valhalla feast was apparently a magical boar called
Sejm. Eaten every night, it was miraculously renewed the next day. So,
Hrafn, what's for dinner today? Sejm again, Hrothnar.

How unbearably boaring.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Richard Henry <rphenry@home.com>
wrote (in <m3cwd.6601$Sq.5689@fed1read01&gt about 'Christmas vs
"Holidays"', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

I think I'm becoming a Republican.

You need counselling. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Donna]

A.W. wrote:

This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after death".
A.W.

A.D. stands for "anno Domini" --- "year of the Lord" -----It means a year
during the Christian era, after Christ was born.

Donna in Texas

 

[James A. Doemer]

Donna <donna.mr@comcast.net> wrote:

A.W. wrote:
This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after
death". A.W.


A.D. stands for "anno Domini" --- "year of the Lord" -----It means a
year during the Christian era, after Christ was born.

Donna in Texas

He or she is right though, I did mean "BC".

 

[Paul Burke]

James A. Doemer wrote:

We know,
for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. We also know
that Herod died in 4AD.

Herod the Great died in 4BC.

Descriptions of the constellations also put his

birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD.

Tough for the story, Yasser bar Yussuf would have been at least 8 then.
Mind you, he could do miracles, so being born again could be one of the
lesser known ones.

Paul Burke

 

[Pooh Bear]

jsmith wrote:

The secularists have been chipping away at the word Christmas for a number
of years now and are substituting irrelevant (religious ??) concoctions to
diminish the value of the celebration of the birth of Christ. Isn't it time
we begin boycotting those merchants who in their TV advertising are
exploiting the Christmas tradition yet not acknowledging that this is truly
the Christmas season. The code word "holiday" season is coming into
increasing use in an effort to minimize the influence the Truths that were
taught by the Prince of Peace.

What so-called 'truths' would those be ?

Yuletide came first anyway ! Christianity simply 'adopted' it for its own
purposes.

I dislike the commercialisation of 'Christmas' too though. Anyone with any
sense simply has to refuse to bow to advertising and not make it commercial.


Graham

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that James A. Doemer
<jdjunkmail@earthlink.net> wrote (in <L%dwd.982$9j5.443@newsread3.news.p
as.earthlink.net&gt about 'Christmas vs "Holidays"', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

Just so you know, "Xmas" is not a secular attempt to take Christ out of
Christmas as many contend. X is the Greek symbol denoting Jesus.


Well, not quite; it's 'ch', the first letter of 'XPIEOE', where 'E'

stands for the Greek 'sigma'; (so 'Christos').

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[James A. Doemer]

Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote:

James A. Doemer wrote:

We know,
for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. We
also know that Herod died in 4AD.

Herod the Great died in 4BC.

Yep... That's what I meant.

Descriptions of the constellations also put his
birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD.

Tough for the story, Yasser bar Yussuf would have been at least 8
then. Mind you, he could do miracles, so being born again could be
one of the lesser known ones.

Paul Burke

 

[Pooh Bear]

Phyllis wrote:

Since December 25th is celebrated as Christmas, those who don't believe
in it or in celebrating it should not accept the day off and the holiday
pay that goes with it.

That's a pretty dumb idea !

You only want idiot 'believers' to have free days off ? What about Moslems ( for
example ) living in the West - you want them to work on Christmas too ? Maybe
you'll give them their own holy days off work ?

It's simply a convenience for everyone to take the same period off work.


Graham

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelati
ons@hotmail.com> wrote (in <41C1826A.C17BCA48@hotmail.com&gt about
'Christmas vs "Holidays"', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

What about
Moslems ( for example ) living in the West - you want them to work on
Christmas too ?

Some will be.

Maybe you'll give them their own holy days off work ?

Many already do.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Bob Stephens]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:25:07 -0600, awnospamj@ev1.net wrote:

This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after death".
A.W.

nope. "anno domini" - in the year of the lord.