Chip with simple program for Toy

[Keith Williams]

In article <CnBRf.894$oj5.327023@news.siol.net>,
Sio_spam_L@same.net says...

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:44154b53$1@news1.ethz.ch...
Frank Bemelman wrote:

Well, they have a custom pcb request form
that allows for gold.

Rene

This might be usefull for others as well;
They charge about 0.002 Euro/mm2/micron Au

The question now would be what is the standard plating thickness for
the Au PCI edge connector.

Have you checked the PCI specification? A quick search gets:

http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/conventional/ECN_PCI_Connector
_Finish.pdf

--
Keith

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"SioL" <Sio_spam_L@same.net> schreef in bericht
news:CnBRf.894$oj5.327023@news.siol.net...

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:44154b53$1@news1.ethz.ch...
Frank Bemelman wrote:

Well, they have a custom pcb request form
that allows for gold.

Rene

This might be usefull for others as well;
They charge about 0.002 Euro/mm2/micron Au

The question now would be what is the standard plating thickness for
the Au PCI edge connector.

The next question would be "how many insertion cycles" do you need
I believe ~1um is standard and probably what you get no matter what
you order But why don't you ask Eurocircuits?

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

 

[SioL]

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message news:4416e76f$0$2630$e4fe514c@dreader25.news.xs4all.nl...

The next question would be "how many insertion cycles" do you need
I believe ~1um is standard and probably what you get no matter what
you order But why don't you ask Eurocircuits?

Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

From the pci spec (thanks Keith) it seems like 1 micron should cover it.
http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/conventional/ECN_PCI_Connector_Finish.pdf

I sent them my board in p-cad and am now waiting for a quote,
I'll probably have to connect all PCI pins together for their electro-plating process to
work. So far it sounds like gold might add some 25-35% to the total cost of the board.
We'll see.

--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:51 +0000 (UTC), the renowned "techie_alison"
<retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

"techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:dvon85$qlu$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

I've just been quoted Ł300 for 100 boards, what a bloody rip-off!! We were
paying Ł80 before.

Your order would be considered down in the nuisance range by many
production board houses, so you just have to find one or two among the
thousands out there that want your kind of business. At this level,
the cost is really dominated by setup costs, not by board area. Some
suppliers are set up to do tiny prototype level orders, others want to
churn out more stuff. Your 100 boards will just about fit in a padded
envelope! No forklift required..

Specs for the board? You have to be a bit careful- if you underspecify
you may get bad results, if you overspecify the price may go up or you
may get no-bids or "go away" quotes. You'll get enough of those
anyway.

Try something like:

FR-4 material, double-sided with plated through holes
Board dimensions (INCLUDING THICKNESS**)
Solder mask both sides
Silk screen one side
<BOARD FINISH>*
NO testing required+

+I don't think it's worth it on such a simple board in such low
quantities... (but it looks like your assembled version almost has a
top-layer short between the microcontroller pin 13 pad and an adjacent
trace). When you get the boards, lay them out on a light table and
100% visually inspect each one before assembly. It will only take a
few minutes and you'll save much potential heartache.

* You might want to request quotes on what the board house suggests
for finish. There are trade-offs between cost, RoHS compliance,
solderability, bare board shelf-life and so on. If the supplier is
local, you can pick up the phone, or just ask for most economical or
something like that.

** Thickness is fairly important in your application as it has to fit
between the pins on the connector. Use digital calipers, or a
micrometer or something accurate like that.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[techie_alison]

"techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:dvon85$qlu$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

I've just been quoted Ł300 for 100 boards, what a bloody rip-off!! We were
paying Ł80 before.

 

[Wes Stewart]

On 20 Mar 2006 21:16:46 -0800, "Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@msn.com> wrote:

I think you need to determine first if you really care about input or
output return loss. There are reasons to not worrying about it, and
other reasons why you would want to worry about it. We make one piece
of equipment that has a guaranteed 46dB input return loss, as I recall.
I remember thinking it's not much fun to have to test that and
guarantee it over some range of temperatures, etc. It certainly IS
possible to design a circuit to present specific input and output
impedances, at least at certain frequencies.

But as John L. pointed out, the best noise figure is generally not for
an impedance matched input in a simple amplifier; and a power amplifier
may be designed to operate to spec into a 50 ohm load, while itself
presenting some much different source impedance. As an extreme
example, consider a hifi audio amplifier that might present an 0.1 ohm
or lower source resistance, but be designed to operate optimally into a
4 to 8 ohm load. Or consider the source impedance of a 120V (or 240V)
household power outlet. You might see a volt or two drop at full load,
say 15 amps, representing a source resistance well below an ohm. But
the load resistance for proper operation probably should not be below 8
ohms or so!

Cheers,
Tom

In addition to Tom's excellent points, consider how S-parameters are
defined and measured.

By definition, all ports are perfectly terminated in the system
impedance and the reflection coefficients and transmission
coefficients are measured one at a time.

If for example, s22 is measured and s12 is not zero then s22 is
influenced by the termination on port 1. In the measurement system,
s11 is zero but in actual operation it is something else, thus s22 is
also something else.

So in the usage environment unless all of the external terminations
are perfect, the s-parameters, while not useless, are deceptive. Gain
and stability can be predicted using them, but only if -all- of them
are considered simultaneously.

 

[Richard H.]

[Re-trying this post, this time with the content...]

techie_alison wrote:

What I'm really trying to do is to get as many for as little ŁŁ as possible.
I guess the silkscreen (lettering) could go, not important. We were paying
about Ł80 for about 100 of those boards in 2 weeks or so. I've put this to
the 4 companies I've emailed.

Aly,

A few things stand out here...

* If you were having them made for a good price, is there a reason you
can't go back there? (I'd be interested in knowing where this was...)

* Limiting yourself to shops that only accept Eagle .brd files will
drive your prices up. Learn how to handle Gerber output and anyone can
process your job, which means you can find cheaper options.

* RoHS will drive the prices up now, and it's non-optional for saleable
products. (Have you thought about how you'll solder these now?)

* Switching to a different 9-pin connector with through-hole pins could
let you switch to a single-sided PCB. The connector price will change,
maybe too much; the board would be cheaper as you'd only need copper,
solder mask, and silkscreen on one side.

* A larger project, but... it looks like you're using less than half the
pins on the PIC. A simpler version (or at least the surface-mount
package) would let you shrink your board size a little, reducing that
cost. A surface-mount PIC might be cheaper (and would require only
layout change); likewise for a simpler PIC if it applies, You'll need
to weigh if it makes your assembly costs go up. A different PIC would
require at least a re-build of the code, but likely not a wholesale
re-write.

* Do you like soldering these PCBs individually? Assembly might be
easier if you had them made in panels / arrays that break apart. It's
called v-scoring. Harder to find in proto shops for a low cost, but
there are some.

* Check out http://www.futurlec.com. They're based in Australia and
front a manufacturer in Thailand. They could do your boards with
v-scoring or cut apart for US$0.65 each at that size, plus about $51
setup charge (Setup as low as $15 with no mask or silkscreen). You have
to ask for v-scoring instead of cut-apart, but there's no extra fee. (!)

You'll have to ask if they do RoHS finishes instead of HASL (solder).
I've been very happy with their work down to 10-mil traces, though their
accuracy on v-scoring is moderate, so allow about 60 mils between boards
for the cut (which is less than the typical 100-mil route plus 20-mil
spacing).

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Mark]

In other words, why can't the input/output return losses of
real amplifiers be, let's say, better than -20 or -30dB (within a
certain narrow frequency band),


=============

Bill,

yes it is not hard to design a matching circuit over a narrow range of
frequencies if that were needed.

It is more difficult to match over a broad range of frequencies.

The greater the transformation needed, the more difficult it is to make
it broadband.

Matching at a single frequency is usually easy.

Mark

 

[Joerg]

Hello Mark,

Matching at a single frequency is usually easy.

Not always. Sometimes you either need narrow tolerance caps (meaning
expensive) or hand tuning in production (very much frowned upon). PCB
material can become quite expensive as well if you want a tightly
toleranced dielectric coefficient.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[John Larkin]

On 21 Mar 2006 10:52:04 -0800, "Mark" <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:

In other words, why can't the input/output return losses of
real amplifiers be, let's say, better than -20 or -30dB (within a
certain narrow frequency band),


=============

Bill,

yes it is not hard to design a matching circuit over a narrow range of
frequencies if that were needed.

It is more difficult to match over a broad range of frequencies.

The greater the transformation needed, the more difficult it is to make
it broadband.

Matching at a single frequency is usually easy.

Mark

Some of the Sirenza SiGe wideband mmic amps are very close to 50 ohms
from DC to several GHz. In fact, you can adjust their operating
current to tweak them to exactly 50, or anywhere from about 40 to 60
ohms, never mind that Sirenza said it wouldn't work. I have some
graphs around here somewhere...

If you can stand a 2-3 dB noise figure, it's hard to beat a 99-cent
MMIC as a gain element.

John

 

[jasen]

On 2006-11-19, The Flavored Coffee Guy <elgersmad@rock.com> wrote:

mike3 wrote:

The foil petals on Wimshurst Generator, really only represent capacitor
plates. You should always view one side as positive, or mostly
positive, and the other mostly negative. When a plate reaches a
discharge brush, it effectively neutralizes the charge potential there
in the gap between the two disks. In moving the wheel and contacting
all of these brushes in order, each capacitive plate is attempting to
stabilize with 3 different capacitve plates. All that is making it
really work starts after the instability has beaten the odds, and one
side of the disk is majorly positive, and the other majorly negative.
In theory, you should be able to do the same thing with a mechanical 8
pole 32 position rotory selector swich and a properly wired bank of
non-electrolytic capacitors, and one coil that would have a value of
.01 ohms at the resonant frequency of the pair. So, if you used 32
.01uF capacitors, you would need something like a 0.001uH coil to
represent a neutralizer bar. As long as the switching is organized in
the same fashion to for each position of the switch to play the same
role as to the brushes for the two rotating disks, the plates of any
given capacitor, treated the same as one disk or the other, and they
will charge up. That same kind of instability still exists. Two poles
would represent the brushes connect to one sphere in the spark gap,
then two more the opposing pole. 2 other contacts would represent
would represent on neutralizer bar, and the final 2 the last
neutralizer bar. Your spark gap would be a neon bulb with a 1 mega ohm
resistor in series with it.

nope. the petals move in opposite directions, it's nothing like a switched
bank of capacitors. because each time it encounters a contact it's opposite
a different other petal

--

Bye.
Jasen

 

[jasen]

On 2006-11-20, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote:

jasen wrote:
On 2006-11-16, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:


And how exactly do you intend to hold a plasma ball inside a rubber
balloon? Pressurize the plasma? If that's what you think you're going
to do, I believe you still have some reading to catch up on.

Ionised gas does not have to be hot

give one example that works at normal air pressure.

Depends what you mean by 'works'.
Ionised air streaming from a charged needle is not hot.

hmm, I hadn't considered that. sort of a dilute ion gas,

not that it'd work any better than ordinary gas as far as I can see

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:55:46 -0700, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:36:41 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:48:26 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

[quoted text muted]

Subject: shoes | nike | jordan | adidas | prada | gucci | polo |
marijuana | muhammad

Notice the appropriate grouping ;-)

You missed "rolex", "breitling"

Too high class for S.E.D ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

 

[Speeders & Drunk Drivers]

"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:J%36m.36813$8P7.32414@newsfe21.iad...

"Richardson" <korbeano89@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d8mdndDA-IHOAsXXnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@posted.toastnet...


Oh boy, I'm so glad America has so many dumbasses.... America is full
of
talkers, and imaginary smartasses....and Rednecks....Heehee.......

Let me remind you, whatever test you do outside your car/truck, do not
assume they're all the same as in your car.



i've been curious to know where you're from. i'd imagine where ever it
is
you're from you must have a lot of national pride about it. i was going
to
guess brazil but maybe eastern europe? just curious.

b.w=bad white
u.s.a.

Hum....One fucking American pimpled ass tried to scam me to buy his junky
generator, boy! he listed it on CL as if it was new, with a brand new
picture, and he said he used it only 30hrs, "I need to move please come and
get it off my hand" he said. I rushed to see the guy and found out that
his fucking generator is 15years old it's about to break apart. The color
is broken off the chassis all over.

I look and look and look I said I want to think about it, he said "hey
what's wrong??" Cheez this is a good example of how many rednecks tried to
scam others and then they call someone else scammer, they are the top-notch
scammers themselves, don't you know? America is broken today is because of
their scams of all levels.

Why do I end up living with these idiots? I hated, I'm stuck because my
children are here. In my country even it's small but it's prosperous than
this land of Kills & Honkey. Don't ask me what it means just go figure if
you sub-morons think you're smart.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:42:31 -0700, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS

Hum....One fucking American pimpled ass tried to scam me to buy his junky
generator, boy! he listed it on CL as if it was new, with a brand new
picture, and he said he used it only 30hrs, "I need to move please come and
get it off my hand" he said. I rushed to see the guy and found out that
his fucking generator is 15years old it's about to break apart. The color
is broken off the chassis all over.

What scam? Doesn't "Get it off my hand" mean, "Take it for free"?

And why are you crapping up the .basics group with this kind of trolling?

Thanks,
Rich

 

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:42:31 -0700, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I hated, I'm stuck because my
children are here. In my country even it's small but it's prosperous than
this land of Kills & Honkey. Don't ask me what it means just go figure

Since your Ebay career didn't work out as you planned, I can see why
you'd like to return to beloved Pottsylvania. But it could be quite a
while yet before Fearless Leader accepts the futility of his dastardly
plan to achieve world domination by exporting idiotically scheming
no-goodnicks. Therefore, your kids will have to continue supporting
you here until you can find a job that fits your uh, ability. I
suggest that you quit wasting your time on Usenet and do something
useful instead. For example, you could be practicing saying "velcome
to Valmart".

Wayne

 

[Speeders & Drunk Drivers]

"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2009.08.04.21.42.34.613945@example.net...

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:42:31 -0700, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS

Hum....One fucking American pimpled ass tried to scam me to buy his
junky
generator, boy! he listed it on CL as if it was new, with a brand new
picture, and he said he used it only 30hrs, "I need to move please come
and
get it off my hand" he said. I rushed to see the guy and found out
that
his fucking generator is 15years old it's about to break apart. The
color
is broken off the chassis all over.

What scam? Doesn't "Get it off my hand" mean, "Take it for free"?

And why are you crapping up the .basics group with this kind of trolling?

Thanks,
Rich

Show me a certificate of ownership of this group you Dick Grease.

 

[Tom Sr.]

On Aug 5, 2:54 am, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Rich Grise" <richgr...@example.net> wrote in message
And why are you crapping up the .basics group with this kind of trolling?
--
Show me a certificate of ownership of this group you Dick Grease.

...
Some *opinions* of "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS":

*Child Pornography Is a "Victimless Crime" --
-----
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/msg/5772c2b36f6615b...

On Jul 23, 10:35 am, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Former Fox News producer Aaron Bruns has been sentenced to 10 years in
prison for possession of child pornography.
--
Hilarious. 10 years for a victimless crime.
-----

*The Nazi Holocaust Did Not Happen --
-----
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.republican/msg/6a75ca5ab43b7f53?hl=en&dmode=source

On Dec 28 2008, 9:11 pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The holocaust story is all a hoax invented by the WW2 allies to deflect
criticism from the MILLIONS OF CIVILIANS they murdered by their urban
bombing.
-----

*The 9/11 Attacks Were Done by the United States Government --
-----
http://groups.google.com/group/ny.politics/msg/eeab630ca38d2766?hl=en&dmode=source

On Jul 16, 3:13 pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Any new investigation will just be another whitewash. Hell - everyone
knows it was an inside job. The govt really has no choice but to
continue the coverup. Same with the media.
-----

-Tom Sr.

 

[Ted \"I survived Chappaqu]

On Aug 5, 2:54 am, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Rich Grise" <richgr...@example.net> wrote in message

newsan.2009.08.04.21.42.34.613945@example.net...



On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:42:31 -0700, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS

Hum....One fucking American pimpled ass tried to scam me to buy his
junky
generator, boy! he listed it on CL as if it was new, with a brand new
picture, and he said he used it only 30hrs, "I need to move please come
and
get it off my hand" he said.   I rushed to see the guy and found out
that
his fucking generator is 15years old it's about to break apart.  The
color
is broken off the chassis all over.

What scam? Doesn't "Get it off my hand" mean, "Take it for free"?

And why are you crapping up the .basics group with this kind of trolling?

Thanks,
Rich

Show me a certificate of ownership of this group you Dick Grease.

Off yer meds again we see.

Dance k00k!

 

[Ted \"I survived Chappaqu]

On Aug 5, 12:14 pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Ted "I survived Chappaquiddick" Kennedy" <TedKennedyMurderedHisPregnantMistress.dwp...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in messagenews:a2e462ef-3404-4abc-9ab6-79aa2ac2069e@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 5, 2:54 am, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"



xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Rich Grise" <richgr...@example.net> wrote in message

newsan.2009.08.04.21.42.34.613945@example.net...

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:42:31 -0700, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS

Hum....One fucking American pimpled ass tried to scam me to buy his
junky
generator, boy! he listed it on CL as if it was new, with a brand new
picture, and he said he used it only 30hrs, "I need to move please come
and
get it off my hand" he said. I rushed to see the guy and found out
that
his fucking generator is 15years old it's about to break apart. The
color
is broken off the chassis all over.

What scam? Doesn't "Get it off my hand" mean, "Take it for free"?

And why are you crapping up the .basics group with this kind of trolling?

Thanks,
Rich

Show me a certificate of ownership of this group you Dick Grease.
Off yer meds again we see.
Dance k00k!

I don't dance, I preach to sub-moron like you to save your ass.

LMAO. You think you're in a position to "save" someone? The only
position you're in is the state of delusion, which explains why you're
dancing like the k00k you are.

Later loser!