Chip with simple program for Toy

[Ken]

I would think in terms of adding a high input impedance buffer to the
tank, so you can use that output for both the positive feedback that
generates the negative resistance,

... Sorry , I am not sure what you mean by that. I know you are talking about
a voltage follower with unity gain , but what for.

I have added a second cirduit to the site:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lerameur/

Ken

 

[Ken]

Your first circuit was nearly there!. Needs a discharge path across C3.
Probably more important is that the circuit has a perfectly stable state
in
the non oscillating condition that you noted.
A sim needs the comparitor "+" input holding at 0V until the circuit has
stabilised. Releasing it will then give the 'kickstart' to force the
circuit
into it's oscillating mode.
Difficult to make a 'good' circuit given the small number of components
and
how they all notice each other. Really a couple of monostables and a
flip-flop wouldn't go amiss.
Below is similar but working circuit in the "LTspice" format. Includes a
bit
of hysteresis for the comparitor, a transistor for the 'switch' and a CR
to
give a rough LC energising pulse. Should though be buildable for real.
Side note; Tuned circuit Q factor can be measured simply as counting the
number of cycles to the point where the voltage has dropped to 4.3% of the
initial voltage. [ InitialV / (e^pi) ]
john

WOW this is a great program ,
thankyou for your time. You circuit is for sure better then mine.
How does LT spice compare with Pspice or Orcad 10.5 , any idea ??
I am going to take a day to see how your circuit woks completely, but from
the simulation , its not giving me a nice wave.
I posted the output at this site:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lerameur/

ken

 

[John Jardine.]

"Ken" <leram@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:U1gOf.7364$RM2.782493@news20.bellglobal.com...

I would think in terms of adding a high input impedance buffer to the
tank, so you can use that output for both the positive feedback that
generates the negative resistance,


.. Sorry , I am not sure what you mean by that. I know you are talking
about
a voltage follower with unity gain , but what for.

I have added a second cirduit to the site:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lerameur/

Ken

Your first circuit was nearly there!. Needs a discharge path across C3.
Probably more important is that the circuit has a perfectly stable state in
the non oscillating condition that you noted.
A sim needs the comparitor "+" input holding at 0V until the circuit has
stabilised. Releasing it will then give the 'kickstart' to force the circuit
into it's oscillating mode.
Difficult to make a 'good' circuit given the small number of components and
how they all notice each other. Really a couple of monostables and a
flip-flop wouldn't go amiss.
Below is similar but working circuit in the "LTspice" format. Includes a bit
of hysteresis for the comparitor, a transistor for the 'switch' and a CR to
give a rough LC energising pulse. Should though be buildable for real.
Side note; Tuned circuit Q factor can be measured simply as counting the
number of cycles to the point where the voltage has dropped to 4.3% of the
initial voltage. [ InitialV / (e^pi) ]
john

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -576 -48 -576 -128
WIRE -576 64 -576 32
WIRE -576 96 -576 64
WIRE -576 208 -576 176
WIRE -496 64 -576 64
WIRE -496 112 -496 64
WIRE -496 208 -496 176
WIRE -400 160 -400 96
WIRE -400 176 -400 160
WIRE -400 272 -400 256
WIRE -368 64 -496 64
WIRE -368 96 -400 96
WIRE -336 -128 -576 -128
WIRE -336 48 -336 -128
WIRE -336 160 -400 160
WIRE -256 -128 -336 -128
WIRE -256 -48 -256 -128
WIRE -256 80 -304 80
WIRE -256 80 -256 32
WIRE -256 160 -272 160
WIRE -256 160 -256 80
WIRE -176 272 -400 272
WIRE -176 320 -176 272
WIRE -176 512 -176 400
WIRE -160 -128 -256 -128
WIRE -160 -112 -160 -128
WIRE -160 0 -160 -32
WIRE -112 272 -176 272
WIRE -112 336 -112 272
WIRE -112 512 -112 400
WIRE -96 80 -256 80
WIRE -80 272 -112 272
WIRE -16 -128 -160 -128
WIRE -16 -48 -16 -128
WIRE -16 80 -32 80
WIRE -16 80 -16 16
WIRE 32 -128 -16 -128
WIRE 32 -64 32 -128
WIRE 32 80 -16 80
WIRE 32 80 32 16
WIRE 48 272 -16 272
WIRE 48 352 48 272
WIRE 48 512 48 416
WIRE 64 80 32 80
WIRE 128 -128 32 -128
WIRE 128 32 128 -128
WIRE 128 272 48 272
WIRE 128 272 128 128
WIRE 128 288 128 272
WIRE 128 400 128 368
WIRE 128 512 128 480
FLAG -160 0 0
FLAG 128 512 0
FLAG 48 512 0
FLAG -112 512 0
FLAG -176 512 0
FLAG -576 208 0
FLAG -336 112 0
FLAG -496 208 0
SYMBOL voltage -160 -128 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL pnp 64 128 M180
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N2907
SYMBOL ind 112 384 R0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 461m
SYMBOL cap 32 352 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 15.27ľ
SYMBOL res 16 -80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 100k
SYMBOL cap -32 64 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 1ľ
SYMBOL diode -16 256 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL cap -128 336 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 1ľ
SYMBOL res 112 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMBOL res -192 304 R0
WINDOW 3 28 84 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1meg
SYMBOL Opamps\\1pole -336 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value2 Avol=1Meg GBW=1Meg Slew=1Meg
SYMBOL res -592 -64 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 47k
SYMBOL res -592 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 22000
SYMBOL cap -272 144 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 10n
SYMBOL res -384 272 R180
WINDOW 0 -20 48 Left 0
WINDOW 3 -35 28 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 1meg
SYMBOL diode 0 16 R180
WINDOW 0 24 72 Left 0
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL cap -512 112 R0
WINDOW 0 23 8 Left 0
WINDOW 3 25 50 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 10ľ
SYMBOL res -272 -64 R0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 2k2
TEXT -584 288 Left 0 !.tran 10
TEXT -480 48 Left 0 !,ic v(n002)=0
TEXT -560 48 Left 0 ;("Pot")
TEXT -440 -8 Left 0 ;(Comparitor LM393)
TEXT 64 480 Left 0 ;60Hz

 

John, like probably you,I get 612,000 hits on "lc oscillator using
Google.

The very first hit of the 612,000 is:

http://www.electronixandmore.com/articles/oscillators.html

Considering that even this first link contains schematics for the
Armstrong, Hatlesy, Colpitts, Electron Coupled and other common
oscillators. Evidently you know how to use Google, but Ken doesn't, or
else he want's someone to hold his hand an spoon feed him very basic
information.

....And to Ken, "we ain't you mamma"! :-(

Harry C

 

[Don Bowey]

On 3/6/06 9:20 AM, in article fr3Pf.2534$nz1.167416@news20.bellglobal.com,
"Ken" <leram@hotmail.com> wrote:

What exactly do you mean by an "oscillator-resonator"?
I looked over your schematic, and followed the
thread so far - but unless you really, really need to
have something that lets an LC tank "ring" all on its
on, and only kicks it again when the amplitude drops
down to some given point, this seems like an awful
lot of trouble to go to for a sine wave - you can do
THAT with a single transistor. What is it you're really
trying to do here?

Bob M.

HI Bob,
Good question:
One of the thing I am trying to do well.
I can only explain well using an analogy.
You get on a swing set, you generate enough energy so that you start swing
(oscillating) everutime you reach a peak value, you give yourself (or a
friend..) a small push to keep going the same amplitude.BUT if you keep
giving the same push everytime with the same strenght you did the first one,
you will reach a point where you will no longer get to go any higher, or
simply break and fall. In an oscillating mechanical system when you reach
that point, the machine simply over heat or break down. This is what I want
to do electrically.

K

I'm late getting into this string.... It sounds to me as though you want the
electronics to self destruct. Is that correct?

Here you are.......

1 - Amplifiers make good oscillators. No amplification, no oscillation.

2 - If you provide *enough* positive (in-phase) feedback an amplifier *will*
oscillate.

3 - At a feedback amplitude that is very near, but below, what it takes to
cause sustained oscillation, the amplifier will ring or ping with noise.

4 - Increasing the positive feedback beyond that in item 3, you can drive
the amplifier as hard as you wish, up to self destruction if you pick the
correct components.

You can make an amplifier oscillate with, or without the LC network. The
tuned circuit just lets you set the frequency at which you want (or hope
for) it to oscillate.


Don

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Christian HOSTELET wrote:

Hello,

As anyone of you used the service of PCBCart at http://www.pcbcart.com ?

Prices are damned good but don't know about quality and service.

From Europe, also have a look at
http://www.eurocircuits.com
they are based in belgium and produce in hungary.
The prices are similar.
Of them, the service is excellent.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

 

[Fred Bartoli]

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:44146167$0$718$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...

Christian HOSTELET wrote:

Hello,

As anyone of you used the service of PCBCart at http://www.pcbcart.com ?

Prices are damned good but don't know about quality and service.

From Europe, also have a look at
http://www.eurocircuits.com
they are based in belgium and produce in hungary.
The prices are similar.
Of them, the service is excellent.

Don't know for pcbcart, but from eurocircuit :

"Sorry but the browser you're using is not supported. Try again using
IE...blah..."

Sorry Eurocircuits, but a potential customer lost.


--
Thanks,
Fred.

 

[Christian HOSTELET]

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
44146167$0$718$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...

From Europe, also have a look at
http://www.eurocircuits.com
they are based in belgium and produce in hungary.
The prices are similar.
Of them, the service is excellent.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

Thanks Rene,

I got this by an other e-mail, and in fact Eurocircuits looks good for very
low quantities (less than 4) then PCBCart is cheaper.
Assuming the same level of quality.
I'm about to order to PCBCart for delivery in April; I'll let know how it
went.

--
Christian - Grenoble

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"Fred Bartoli"
<fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> schreef in
bericht news:44148a80$0$26740$636a55ce@news.free.fr...

Don't know for pcbcart, but from eurocircuit :

"Sorry but the browser you're using is not supported. Try again using
IE...blah..."

Sorry Eurocircuits, but a potential customer lost.

Sorry for you too Fred, a potential large amount of
profit lost. Install a windows PC just for acces to
eurocircuits, the PC will pay for itself in no-time.

I've been using them for 6 years now. Great for 2/4
layer boards. Cheap. Easy to repeat an order. Large
repeat orders (>=250) are *dirt* cheap. Excellent
quality. Free shape routing, no restrictions on tools,
holes or other silly costs.

Highly recommended.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Fred Bartoli wrote:

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:44146167$0$718$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...

Christian HOSTELET wrote:


Hello,

As anyone of you used the service of PCBCart at http://www.pcbcart.com ?

Prices are damned good but don't know about quality and service.

From Europe, also have a look at
http://www.eurocircuits.com
they are based in belgium and produce in hungary.
The prices are similar.
Of them, the service is excellent.


Don't know for pcbcart, but from eurocircuit :

"Sorry but the browser you're using is not supported. Try again using
IE...blah..."

Part of the functionality is available for firefox.
But yes, full support is wished.

Rene
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

 

[SioL]

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message news:44149a08$0$31182$e4fe514c@dreader16.news.xs4all.nl...

I've been using them for 6 years now. Great for 2/4
layer boards. Cheap. Easy to repeat an order. Large
repeat orders (>=250) are *dirt* cheap. Excellent
quality. Free shape routing, no restrictions on tools,
holes or other silly costs.

Highly recommended.

I like the sound of that. Have you ever ordered Au plating?

I've dropped them an e-mail, but in these days of spam filters
I may have to resort to fax/tel, we'll see tomorrow.

--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."

 

[SioL]

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message news:44149a08$0$31182$e4fe514c@dreader16.news.xs4all.nl...

I've been using them for 6 years now. Great for 2/4
layer boards. Cheap. Easy to repeat an order. Large
repeat orders (>=250) are *dirt* cheap. Excellent
quality. Free shape routing, no restrictions on tools,
holes or other silly costs.

Highly recommended.

I like the sound of that. Have you ever ordered Au plating?

I've dropped them an e-mail, but in these days of spam filters
I may have to resort to fax/tel, we'll see tomorrow.

--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."

 

"Fred Bartoli"
<fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:44146167$0$718$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
Christian HOSTELET wrote:

Hello,

As anyone of you used the service of PCBCart at http://www.pcbcart.com ?

Prices are damned good but don't know about quality and service.

From Europe, also have a look at
http://www.eurocircuits.com
they are based in belgium and produce in hungary.
The prices are similar.
Of them, the service is excellent.


Don't know for pcbcart, but from eurocircuit :

"Sorry but the browser you're using is not supported. Try again using
IE...blah..."

Sorry Eurocircuits, but a potential customer lost.


--
Thanks,
Fred.

Opera 8.52 and Firefox 1.5.0.1 work fine on Win98SE.

Mike

 

[SioL]

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:44149ed6$0$24335$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...

Part of the functionality is available for firefox.
But yes, full support is wished.
Rene

These are their facilities, not bad:
http://62.58.101.196/construct/index.htm

--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."

 

[Jim Brain]

Christian HOSTELET wrote:

Hello,

As anyone of you used the service of PCBCart at http://www.pcbcart.com ?

Prices are damned good but don't know about quality and service.

---
Christian - Grenoble


It's sometimes hard to compare, but it looked competitive to

www.custompcb.com, which I use. I don't know if ENIG or Immersion
Silver Plate is better, but I figure both are better than HASL.

If you find them competitive, I can state I've been pleased with their
quality and service. I've not seen a ton of boards in my day, but the
prototypes I got from customPCB looked better than many production
boards I've received via other manufacturers. The plated board is
completely flat (no raises from the HASL process), and the soldermask
finish was like polished glass.

http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/uIEC/IMG_1861_001

Does not do it justice, but it's the best I've got to put here.

A couple things I like about them:

o They'll take EAGLE pcb files directly, no need to spit out gerbers.
o You can panelize for great prices (the board above I got 12 of them
and 24 of a half size board on 2 panels for $204.00)
o Quick. 5 days from order to sitting on doorstep, 7 if silkscreen,
o Nice refund policy. You see issues with production, send the batch
back and they'll redo or refund.
o They've rather made a firm statement about silver plate. I can see
the difference, and I applaud the stance.

I've placed a half dozen prototype orders, quality is consistent.

Jim

--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations
brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"SioL" <Sio_spam_L@same.net> schreef in bericht
news:8b3Rf.837$oj5.313495@news.siol.net...

"Frank Bemelman" <f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote in message
news:44149a08$0$31182$e4fe514c@dreader16.news.xs4all.nl...
I've been using them for 6 years now. Great for 2/4
layer boards. Cheap. Easy to repeat an order. Large
repeat orders (>=250) are *dirt* cheap. Excellent
quality. Free shape routing, no restrictions on tools,
holes or other silly costs.

Highly recommended.

I like the sound of that. Have you ever ordered Au plating?

I've dropped them an e-mail, but in these days of spam filters
I may have to resort to fax/tel, we'll see tomorrow.

Never ordered gold plating. Orders entered through their
website don't have every possible option to choose from.
But they can make everything, I'm certain. I suppose you
have to ask for a quotation by phone or email, discuss
details with a sales person. Their automated order processing
only deals with 1/2/4 layers with top/bottom silkscreen, testing,
desired delivery time etc.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Frank Bemelman wrote:

Never ordered gold plating. Orders entered through their
website don't have every possible option to choose from.
But they can make everything, I'm certain. I suppose you
have to ask for a quotation by phone or email, discuss
details with a sales person. Their automated order processing
only deals with 1/2/4 layers with top/bottom silkscreen, testing,
desired delivery time etc.

Well, they have a custom pcb request form
that allows for gold.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

 

[SioL]

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:44154b53$1@news1.ethz.ch...

Frank Bemelman wrote:


Never ordered gold plating. Orders entered through their
website don't have every possible option to choose from.
But they can make everything, I'm certain. I suppose you
have to ask for a quotation by phone or email, discuss
details with a sales person. Their automated order processing
only deals with 1/2/4 layers with top/bottom silkscreen, testing,
desired delivery time etc.

Well, they have a custom pcb request form
that allows for gold.

Rene

Splendid.

--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."

 

[Byron A Jeff]

In article <pan.2006.03.08.16.08.55.763888@example.net>,
Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:27:41 -0800, Steven P wrote:

maybe a stupid question.

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

To a point. If the answer is easily obtainable, then the question can
be construed as superfluous.

But I've set followups to sci.electronics.basics, since this is a basics
question.

Shoot.

I know rs232 data flow normally consists of 1 Start bit, 8 Data bits, 1
Stop Bits and 1 Check bits for a Byte data.

Actually the format of the stream is all over the place. 7 or 8 bits of data. 1 or 2 stop bits. even/odd/no parity. It all depends on what the two devices
communicating agree on.

Can someone tell me whether this Start Bit is high or low,

Given that negative voltages in RS-232 represent a 1 bit, and positive voltages
represent a 0 bit, the start bit is a 0 bit.

It's important to understand the differences between the actual voltages and
their representation. Most of the time the RS-232 voltages are converted into
what is called a serial TTL format. This serial TTL is the interface to most
UARTS and microcontrollers.

Bt default a RS-232 transmit line idles on the 1 bit. So if no transmission
is occuring, then the line shows a 1 (which is a negative voltage in the range
of -12V).

So now it makes sense that when the device is ready to send something that
some change should occur to the line to signal that something is coming down
the track. Since the idle line is a 1, then the start bit, which is that
signal, needs to be a 0 bit (represented by a +12V on the line).

and stop bit?

The opposite. The stop bit is designed to give the line some time to get
back into an idle state. Since idle is a 1 bit, the stop bit is a 1 bit too.

If this depends on the hardware implementation, then please give
me the answer under the condition of using PC and windows.

Not really. The bit representations and the voltages are a part of the
standard. Now many PC implementations cheat by using 0-5V to represent
the 1 and 0 bits respectively. But the 0V is technically out of specification
because it's not negative.

BAJ

 

[SioL]

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:44154b53$1@news1.ethz.ch...

Frank Bemelman wrote:

Well, they have a custom pcb request form
that allows for gold.

Rene

This might be usefull for others as well;
They charge about 0.002 Euro/mm2/micron Au

The question now would be what is the standard plating thickness for
the Au PCI edge connector.

--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."