Chip with simple program for Toy

[petrus bitbyter]

"David Nugent" <dnugent@syd.eastlink.ca> schreef in bericht
news:4UiSa.43590$PD3.4459569@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Sorry, schematic is with this message.

I have a controller out of a moisture oven. It is about 20 years old, and
I
need to get it working. It has a digital set point (temperature you want
the oven to go to). When the oven reaches the set point, it is supposed
to
turn off (stop heating). I have no schematic for the controller, but have
created a schematic of the area in where I believe the problem lies.

There is a LED that says (Heating when Lit). When the oven is heating up,
the LED stays on. When it reaches the preset temperature, the LED starts
to
flicker and then goes out. So I believe the logic side of the controller
is
working fine.

The oven element is controlled by a TRIAC (Which is tested ok). It heats
up
ok, and if I disconnect the Gate lead, the temperature starts to drop.

There is an "Unknown device" I've posted a picture of before. Maybe in
the
schematic, it will make more sense to someone. I'm guessing it's some
sort
of opto-isolator, but it's quite large about 2" long, 1" high and 1/2"
wide.

A few things I noted/tried:

Out of circuit, pins 3/4 on unknown device look "open" (Meter flashes
infinite resistance). However, if pins 3/4 are not connected to the
circuit
(While pins 1& 2 are), the oven will not heat. This puzzled me.
I figured it it was "open" that it would make no difference if it was
there.

Disconnected the gate of triac while the oven was heating. Oven started
to
drop temperature (Show that triac turns on and off).

As a mention of note: The oven originally had a Q4025P triac (That was
shorted - Oven always on/heating). I was given a BCR16HM triac from a
local
electronics supplier and told it would be a fine replacement (Actually
looks
a little more heavy duty).

Here is a curious point. When I first discovered the original Triac was
shorted, and replaced it with the new one, the first time the oven powered
up, it worked. It reached it's temperature and then the triac turned off.
But since then, it hasn't worked properly. As I mentioned I rechecked the
new triac and it seems fine.

I would greatly appreciate any help suggestions anyone can give me. I'm
pretty stumped at this point.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,

From your schematic as well as from your story it will be clear that your
unknown device is controlling the triac. Terry King called it a opto triac
and I guess he's right, although I like to call it a solid state relais. My
second guess is, it may be damaged due to too high a current into the gate
off the new triac. I did not check the datasheets but the gate current
required by a triac may vary from 5mA to over 100mA depending on the type.
Things you can do:
- Just to be sure, check the 100Ohms 1/4W resistor. If it's a short it will
have blown your unknown device as well.
- Check the voltage on pins 3-4 off your unknown device. When the oven is
on, it should read only a few volts AC but when the oven is off, it should
raise to the mains voltage.
- Check the voltage on pins 1-2. When the oven is on it should read a few
volts DC but when it is off, it should read nothing.
- I see a resistor connected to pin 1 of your device. Check its voltage when
the oven is on. Be using Ohms law you can get an idea of the current flowing
through your device as well as through the LED. I guess it need to be
something of 5-20mA.

My (fourth) guess is that the voltage across pin 3-4 will stay low when the
oven it supposed to be switched off. So you will have to replace your
unknown device. Looking at the picture you can use a S 201 SO1 as sold by
Conrad. It requires 15mA (DC) through pins 1-2 and can switch up to
600V/1.5A by pins 3-4. Priced 6.50 Euro.
As an alternative you may exchange the whole triac circuit by a heavy solid
state relais. An S 216 SO2 requires only 8mA control current, can switch up
to 600V/16A and does about 11 Euros. Of course it needs cooling like your
triac does. More heavy types require 5-25mA control current and can switch
250Veff/25A or even 40A. They do 10-15 Euros.

good luck repairing your oven

pieter



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[Kevin Kilzer]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:17:56 GMT, "Michael Drainer"
<drainer@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Can anyone provide schematics for a basic TV tuner?

Two approaches:

a. Try <<http://www.samswebsite.com/photofacts.html>>. They have
schematics of almost every TV ever made. Get the old ones for tube
circuits, the 1970's for transistors, and the 1990 for ICs.

b. Find the companies that make tuner chips, and get the reference
schematics.

Kevin

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 07:56:26 +0100, Dan Fraser wrote:

Do NOT use WD-40 to clean controls."WD" means "Water Displacer"

Thanks, I never knew that.

Its not even a good lubricant

Pretty good for tapping aluminum

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 03:15:27 +0100, Watson A.Name - 'Watt Sun' wrote:

Tell me. Do you believe in negative resistance?

Yup, seen it.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

[Roger Johansson]

"John Smith" <pleasepostonly@pleasepost55555.com> wrote:

Now I think it's time for me to read up on the finer points of current flow
through transistors.

A simple explanation:

Assume a amplification factor hFE of 400.

For each electron you send through the base 400 electrons can join
that electron into the emitter, if the collector resistance allows it.

The 400 electrons coming from the collector may not go to the emitter
unless they are in company of one electron coming from the base.

This analogy is a simplification, since the amplification factor hFE
is slightly different at different currents and temperatures, but as a
first approximation of a transistors behavior it is good.

Others will tell you that it is not the current through the base which
controls the current through the collector, it is the voltage on the
base. But we use the current through the base to control the voltage
on the base, so that is just a somewhat more complicated way to see
it.

For a beginner it is enough to know that the transistor is a current
controlled current steering device.

The current through the base is controlled by choosing a suitable base
resistor at a certain voltage it is connected to.

For example if the voltage you can steer the base with is 5 Volt,
choosing a 5k Ohm base resistor will allow 1 mA to go through the
base.
If the hFE is 400 that will allow 400mA to go through the collector.

Because your circuit had a pullup resistor built into the chip it will
control the maximum current that will be drawn from the chip, so we
didn't need to limit the collector current, it is limited by the chip.


--
Roger J.

 

[Watson A.Name - 'Watt Sun]

In article <Xns93BDB543495BDou812@216.168.3.44>,
inorbit@outerspace.org mentioned...

"Sofie" <sofie@olypen.com> wrote in
news:vheca77sefdtd5@corp.supernews.com:

Sir Charles W. Shults III:
That is a good in depth, overly complicated, answer but not the one I
was looking for..... obviously since the Tim Williams posting said
".And besides that, it measures actual in-circuit conditions,
because a resistor is *supposed* to get hot, at least if it's doing
its job..." ..... and since the overly discussed "2 meters and power
supply" ohm meter method can overheat low-ohm resistors..... and the
resistance of any resistor will vary with temperature..... I was
wondering at what exact "hot" temperature the resistor should be at to
make an accurate measurement..... LOL Obviously I am not looking for
any kind of answer here....... I just think that this thread went
bonkers when all the original poster wanted to do is, as Chuck Harris
indicated in his reply post, show off his new found factoid....
however it seems clear that it may not be a very practical and
convenient method as evidenced by the length and tone of the majority
of the reply posts.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


My goodness! FINALLY! An intelligent reply! At least somebody is using
their head, instead of the other end.

If it wasn't for all the rat turds......

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
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@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

 

[Kyle Broflovski]

http://www.crownhill.uk.com/


On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:08:21 +0100, "pic" <<> wrote:

Hello all,
Where can I buy pic microcontrollers. The selection in maplin
is limited, are there any other sources?

 

[John Popelish]

Fred Abse wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 07:56:26 +0100, Dan Fraser wrote:

Do NOT use WD-40 to clean controls."WD" means "Water Displacer"

Thanks, I never knew that.

Its not even a good lubricant

Pretty good for tapping aluminum

That implies it is not a very good lubricant. You want it to cool the
cutting process, not stop the edge from digging into the metal. A
good synthetic motor oil (a really good lubricant) makes the tap wedge
into the metal (push it aside) without cutting a thread.

--
John Popelish

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Sir Charles W. Shults III" wrote:

I often use WD-40 as a cutting aid when milling. As John pointed out, that
is specifically because of its lousy lubricant properties. I have found that
the best use for WD-40 when making something stop squeaking is to shoot the
offending device with the WD-40, work it a bit, the add a couple of drops of
machine oil.
This does three things- it displaces moisture first (exactly what we
expect), then provides a solvent "pathway" for the oil to soak into the joint,
and provide maximum surface wetting for the lubricant.

Cheers!

Chip Shults
My robotics, space and CGI web page - http://home.cfl.rr.com/aichip

Chip, Have you ever used "Breakfree" penetrating oil? I used it to
free up a seized six cylinder engine years ago. Walmart is now selling
it in their fishing supplies area.
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Sir Charles W. Shults III]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3F1AEFFD.77F6D5D7@earthlink.net...

Chip, Have you ever used "Breakfree" penetrating oil? I used it to
free up a seized six cylinder engine years ago. Walmart is now selling
it in their fishing supplies area.

No, I have used Marvel Mystery Oil, but not Breakfree. I'll go pcik some
up. Thanks.

Cheers!

Chip Shults
My robotics, space and CGI web page - http://home.cfl.rr.com/aichip

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:47:51 -0500, "Henry Kolesnik"
<wd5jfr@oklahoma.net> wrote:

I was at a hamfest looking for some mylar caps for a circuit that called for
them. I got several opinions on how to tell one and finally gave up. Are
there any sure fire ways to identiy a cap as mylar and why are they bettter
than a silver mica or others. Does anyone have a short chart comparing the
characteristics? How did we get by before mylar was used?
tnx
hank wd5jfr

Since mylar caps are about the worst film caps around, any plastic
film cap should work.

Oldies were mica (both foil and silvered), waxed paper, glass,
oil-filled (usually paper), and of course air.

John

 

[John Popelish]

Henry Kolesnik wrote:

I was at a hamfest looking for some mylar caps for a circuit that called for
them. I got several opinions on how to tell one and finally gave up. Are
there any sure fire ways to identiy a cap as mylar and why are they bettter
than a silver mica or others. Does anyone have a short chart comparing the
characteristics? How did we get by before mylar was used?
tnx
hank wd5jfr

Mylar capacitors main claim to fame is their low cost. I avoid the
green (often called greenies) epoxy cased ones like poison ivy,
because many of them are wound around the two leads, and have lots of
series inductance. I really like the Panasonic V stacked film series
for low inductance.

Mylars come in foil film types and metalized film (these are often
self healing in the event of dielectric breakdown). But propylene and
polystyrene have better stability and lower losses.

You might read through this site:
http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/index.html

--
John Popelish

 

[Eric Immel]

If you are not too concerned about quality, get the appropriate number
of LED lasers. Surplus arrays are sold on eBay for cheap. They usually
have a columnating lens in front of the chip that you can use to adjust
the spot size.

EI

Jhon Smith wrote:

Hello,

I would like to have information about the projectors used in
"projector alarm clock" (clocks that project the time on the wall or
ceiling. see http://www.google.com/search?q=%22+Projection+Alarm+Clock%22
for examples).

Specifically, I would like to know:


- The technology used. I read somewhere that LED's are used, but it
seem unrealistic due to LED's beam width.

- Is it possible to buy a projector (that you can control yourself) ?

I really want to project other things then alphanumeric characters,
but with about the same precision and number of elements. So if buying
a customized projector is not possible, I plan making one myself (if
this is technically feasible).

Thank you if you can provide any information on these subjects.

John

 

[Rich Webb]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:05:51 GMT, "Ewan Sinclair"
<ewan_sinclair@hotmail.com> wrote:

Does anybody know of a decent simulator that I can download (preferably
freeware) with a nicely sized library of components?

There are several out there. The one I use is by BeigeBag and they do
have a freebie version available. Go to http://www.beigebag.com/ and
follow the links to their "Lite" version (which is the free one).

Also, how useful does anyone find these programs? They seem rather handy.

As the software side of a small design team I find it handy in helping
me understand what's going on with the hardware side of things. Also fun
to use in developing my own hobby circuits.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Chaos Master]

There's a grave here. You feel the words: " Ewan Sinclair, killed by
posting to sci.electronics.basics at Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:05:51 GMT ".

Does anybody know of a decent simulator that I can download (preferably
freeware) with a nicely sized library of components?
Look for CircuitMaker or SuperSpice.

And you can download models from Internet too: try doing a google or
yahoo search on "SPICE models".

Also, how useful does anyone find these programs? They seem rather handy.
Useful for testing new ideas. CircuitMaker is useful to simulate digital

circuits because it includes various digital IC's already modelled.
--
"Famous last words: cut the yellow wire, I'm sure!"

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Sir Charles W. Shults III" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3F1AEFFD.77F6D5D7@earthlink.net...

Chip, Have you ever used "Breakfree" penetrating oil? I used it to
free up a seized six cylinder engine years ago. Walmart is now selling
it in their fishing supplies area.

No, I have used Marvel Mystery Oil, but not Breakfree. I'll go pick some
up. Thanks.

Cheers!

Chip Shults
My robotics, space and CGI web page - http://home.cfl.rr.com/aichip

It is the best penetrating oil I have ever found. I have salvaged a
lot of equipment that would have been scrap, otherwise. Sometimes it
helps to heat the item, then apply it as it cools so it is sucked deeper
into the cracks as it cools.
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[gothika]

I new a tweek that worked in an avionics electronics shop that built a
unit that would fry cell-phones.
He could turn the gain up to just jam or all the way up to totally
fritz the offending piece of techno-crap.(Used it mostly while
driving.)
I tried to get him to build me one or at least give me a schematic but
he refused.
Anyone here know what it'd take to build one?

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:05:34 GMT, bschwabe@atlanta.nsc.com (Beau
Schwabe) wrote:

Perhaps sticking a large SWITCH on the side of the cell-phone would
help some people turn them off in movie theaters, and other "polite
quiet zones". There are many times I would like to help the cell
phone offender find the off switch in front of a brick wall. - grin

-Beau Schwabe


The last time I went to Radio Shaft to buy a switch, The clerk asked me "How about a
cell phone with that?" Haven't been back since.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:55:20 +0200, "cornytheclown"
theclown.news.invalid@web2news.net> wrote:

I had not been to radioshack in quite some time....they used to be
within walking distance to my home and they moved 1.5-2 years ago to the
other side of town.... I only bought my ferric chloride there and "knick
knacks" but still I liked to visit on the odd rainy saturday or so.

So I was at the new super walmart today and as radioshack is nearby I
decided to pay them a visit.

The layout of the store is exactly like the layout of the old store only
slightly larger....I made a beeline for the back corner where the
electronic components and antenna stuff is.....Its a wasteland...They
still carry some resistors,capacitors, ICs, etc.... but they are in the
radioshack ripoff packs in these large pullout drawers...no more bulk
packs of resistors....still have some transformers, ic tools, some ic
sockets....more tools it seems and there own brand of soldering station.
But man its nothing anymore....

It wasnt much to begin with but now its the most basic suff and they
lack a lot of common items...some solderless breadboards and some copper
boards....3 bottles of ferric chloride....I got two of those.
I knew it was coming and honestly I was surprised at what they had with
what I have been hearing the last two years.

Its not electronic hobbyist friendly at all....connectors and stuff
crammed into the same drawers with the ics,resistors etc....

They have about a 10 by 10 area devoted to electronics and this includes
antennas, wire, audio/video connectors and cables....the rest of the
store is telephones...a few stereos/tvs........Id say 50 percent or more
of the store is devoted to cellular phones.

They still had a few electronic doodads...the watches calculators
etc...under the counter and batteries but there were cell phones
everywhere.

The clerk there didnt know what the future was for the 10x10 area for
electronics....he said they were restocking the area when they ran out
of the stuff but he said he didnt know how long that would last.

No one in there either and this was this afternoon......maybe they are
busier on saturdays.....I bet ratshack will move toward nothing but
cellular phone dealer before long.

I must admit that I never really dealt with them on parts...just ferric
chloride and knick knacks....but they were handy for the odd part I
didnt have. I have long used mouser and the like for price and selection
but it is sad that rat shack is pretty much dead...even as a loafing
place.

We once had a place in town called radio elecric supply and they carried
everything...it was a dirty dark electronics supply house but you could
buy just about anything you would need there. They folded up about 8
years ago. We do have a place about 30 miles from here but they are
mostly catv oriented.... not much in the way of parts unless you want to
buy nte semiconductors at nte prices...no resistor or parts in
bulk....its a joke.

Too bad isnt it....if there was a good local place I would buy from
them...but there isnt and I dont think here ever will be one again.

 

[gothika]

I'm no expert but if he's watching something in the uhf/vhf band seems
what you need is a rf generator that can match frequency with what
ever channel he's watching then an amp to boost the signal to jam
strength and something to produce raster or even some really
irritating noise.(audio and video.)
If he pulling the signal through a vcr and using the rf out this makes
your task easier as all vcrs output the signal through channel 3 or 4.
(just buy a small rf modulator and a rf amp with enough guts to jam
the rf modulator in his vcr.
Some of the more technical savvy here can give you more precise
details.

On 15 Jun 2003 14:04:28 GMT, melaniegree64694@aol.com
(Melaniegree64694) wrote:

Hi
I have a neighbour who watches terrestrial television at a loud volume into
the early hours. It's very annoying I have asked him to turn it down to no
avail. Is there a simple jamming device I can make to turn his telly into a
snowstorm and get good nights sleep? I have noticed that some vehicles if they
have faulty electrics can produce this effect. Can I replicate this with an
electric motor or such like?

Mel

 

[gothika]

Have you considered a software solution?
I use a pink noise generator that I got at epanorama.net.
They also have tone generators, spectrum analyzers, white noise
generators etc...
All free
On 21 Jun 2003 20:14:16 -0700, Fetch5272@yahoo.com (Weykent) wrote:

Anyone know where I can find a good pink noise generator, not a kit though...

Cheers

Weykent

 

[Gert van den Heuvel]

"Ewan Sinclair" <ewan_sinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:z7GSa.10976$jL2.1185484@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...

Does anybody know of a decent simulator that I can download (preferably
freeware) with a nicely sized library of components?

Also, how useful does anyone find these programs? They seem rather handy.

Ewan


For a list of simulators visit

http://home.planet.nl/~heuve345/electronics/software.html.

I personally prefer the freeware tool LTspice/SwitcherCAD III:
http://www.linear-tech.com/software/

hth,


--
Gert van den Heuvel
webmaster www.HobbyElectronics.info