S
Stormin Mormon
Guest
On 10/18/2014 12:24 PM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
Subject line change, no charge.
Subject line change, no charge.
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Stormin Mormon
Guest
On 10/18/2014 4:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
know the make and model. But, yes, they can.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
The ones we have at church are just fine. I don'tIncidentally, it doesn't take much movement to wreck a ceramic
coating. I had a nice ceramic coated steel tea kettle that I usually
heat on the kitchen stove top to about 180C. One day, I stupidly put
it directly on top of my wood burner running at about 300C. I
compounded the error by boiling off all the water. My first
indication of a problem was the sound of something like popcorn from
inside the kettle. That was the inside coating flaking off and
bouncing around. As I approached, a large piece of the outside
coating flew off in my general direction. I had to use a broomstick
to remove the kettle. I haven't calculated the differences in
expansion, but for something as small as a kettle, it was much smaller
than my predicted 1mm.
know the make and model. But, yes, they can.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
M
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
micky wrote:
The Sears model number will tell you who made it.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
I think Kenmore is AOSmith because the intake and output pipes are
exactly the same distance apart as the wh that came with the house (when
no other brand I looked at had that. I'm compulsive. I didn't want to
use flexible and I didn't want zig-zag piping. ) And the front panels
were the same (although maybe they all use the same thermostats and
heaters.) Basically everything looks the same as the original.
The Sears model number will tell you who made it.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:55:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The Sears model number will tell you who made it.
There are numerous Sears manufacturers lists available online. Many
have missing prefix numbers or only include specific classifications,
such as power tools. If you can't find your model number prefix, just
try a different list:
<http://home.cogeco.ca/~gbishop/Public/SearsSourceCodes.htm>
<http://vintagemachinery.org/craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1>
<http://www.asecc.com/data/sears.html>
On some serial numbers, you can extract the date of manufacture:
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com/MajorAppliances/ApplianceManufacturers.html>
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com>
Incidentally, the above web site has some rather interesting photos of
appliance related fires. For example, hot water heaters do NOT start
fires:
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Hotwater/HotWaterHeaters.html>
and portable electric heater misuse hazards:
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Heaters/ElectricHeaters.html>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The Sears model number will tell you who made it.
There are numerous Sears manufacturers lists available online. Many
have missing prefix numbers or only include specific classifications,
such as power tools. If you can't find your model number prefix, just
try a different list:
<http://home.cogeco.ca/~gbishop/Public/SearsSourceCodes.htm>
<http://vintagemachinery.org/craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1>
<http://www.asecc.com/data/sears.html>
On some serial numbers, you can extract the date of manufacture:
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com/MajorAppliances/ApplianceManufacturers.html>
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com>
Incidentally, the above web site has some rather interesting photos of
appliance related fires. For example, hot water heaters do NOT start
fires:
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Hotwater/HotWaterHeaters.html>
and portable electric heater misuse hazards:
<http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Heaters/ElectricHeaters.html>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
M
micky
Guest
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:23:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
Well I went to all three pages, and searching on smith, none listed
a.o.smith at all.
But I remember the clincher reason I thought that's what it was. The
first owner of the house left me the owners manual for the original
water heater, by aosmith, and the manual was amost identical to the one
that came with both of my Sears water heaters. Same text, same fonts,
same graphics
I'll check these out.
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:55:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
The Sears model number will tell you who made it.
There are numerous Sears manufacturers lists available online. Many
have missing prefix numbers or only include specific classifications,
such as power tools. If you can't find your model number prefix, just
try a different list:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~gbishop/Public/SearsSourceCodes.htm
http://vintagemachinery.org/craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1
http://www.asecc.com/data/sears.html
Well I went to all three pages, and searching on smith, none listed
a.o.smith at all.
But I remember the clincher reason I thought that's what it was. The
first owner of the house left me the owners manual for the original
water heater, by aosmith, and the manual was amost identical to the one
that came with both of my Sears water heaters. Same text, same fonts,
same graphics
On some serial numbers, you can extract the date of manufacture:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/MajorAppliances/ApplianceManufacturers.html
http://www.electrical-forensics.com
Incidentally, the above web site has some rather interesting photos of
appliance related fires. For example, hot water heaters do NOT start
fires:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Hotwater/HotWaterHeaters.html
and portable electric heater misuse hazards:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Heaters/ElectricHeaters.html
I'll check these out.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 23:26:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
Yeah, I noticed that. However, it seems that Sears/Kenmore does sell
AO Smith water heaters. Here's replacement parts for one AO Smith
model from the Sears web site:
<http://parts.sears.com/partsdirect/part-model/Aosmith-Parts/Water-heater-Parts/Model-ESM30/0002/1081000/50032737/00001>
and Sears repair service for AO Smith products:
<http://www.searshomeservices.com/aosmith-water-heater-repair>
A clue might be that the Sears parts page shows the water heater by
the AO Smith model number (ESM30) and not by the Sears style part
number. The web page shows parts for 205 assorted AO Smith water
heaters:
<http://parts.sears.com/partsdirect/getProductType.pd?parentCategory=Plumbing&productType=Water-heater-Parts&sort=modelNumber&dir=asc&selectedBrand=Aosmith&page=1>
none of which show a Sears style part number.
AO Smith also posts some of their instruction manuals:
<http://www.aosmithinternational.com/content/instruction-manuals>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:23:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~gbishop/Public/SearsSourceCodes.htm
http://vintagemachinery.org/craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1
http://www.asecc.com/data/sears.html
Well I went to all three pages, and searching on smith, none listed
a.o.smith at all.
Yeah, I noticed that. However, it seems that Sears/Kenmore does sell
AO Smith water heaters. Here's replacement parts for one AO Smith
model from the Sears web site:
<http://parts.sears.com/partsdirect/part-model/Aosmith-Parts/Water-heater-Parts/Model-ESM30/0002/1081000/50032737/00001>
and Sears repair service for AO Smith products:
<http://www.searshomeservices.com/aosmith-water-heater-repair>
A clue might be that the Sears parts page shows the water heater by
the AO Smith model number (ESM30) and not by the Sears style part
number. The web page shows parts for 205 assorted AO Smith water
heaters:
<http://parts.sears.com/partsdirect/getProductType.pd?parentCategory=Plumbing&productType=Water-heater-Parts&sort=modelNumber&dir=asc&selectedBrand=Aosmith&page=1>
none of which show a Sears style part number.
But I remember the clincher reason I thought that's what it was. The
first owner of the house left me the owners manual for the original
water heater, by aosmith, and the manual was amost identical to the one
that came with both of my Sears water heaters. Same text, same fonts,
same graphics
AO Smith also posts some of their instruction manuals:
<http://www.aosmithinternational.com/content/instruction-manuals>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
S
Stormin Mormon
Guest
On 10/18/2014 11:26 PM, micky wrote:
The ones that are good enough to be as bright,
can be twenty or thirty bucks per bulb. But,
if it means not having to go 24 feet up, might
be worth it.
-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:23:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
On some serial numbers, you can extract the date of manufacture:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/MajorAppliances/ApplianceManufacturers.html
http://www.electrical-forensics.com
Incidentally, the above web site has some rather interesting photos of
appliance related fires. For example, hot water heaters do NOT start
fires:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Hotwater/HotWaterHeaters.html
and portable electric heater misuse hazards:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Heaters/ElectricHeaters.html
I'll check these out.
The ones that are good enough to be as bright,
can be twenty or thirty bucks per bulb. But,
if it means not having to go 24 feet up, might
be worth it.
-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
J
Jerry Peters
Guest
In sci.electronics.repair Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
I was discussing a *gas* HWH, where you do want the heat from the
burner to be conducted through the tank to the water.
I was thinking of the hot spots you could get with a gas HWH if the
plastic isn't in complete contact with the tank.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 20:13:17 +0000 (UTC), Jerry Peters
jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
ALso plastic doesn't conduct heat all that well, leading to an
inefficient WH. Also a gas HWH has a pretty powerful burner, mine's
rated at 40,000 BTU/hour input.
No, no. You don't want any thermal conduction through the plastic
liner. The whole idea is to keep the heat inside the tank, not
radiate or conduct it to the outside. That's why there's a mess of
fiberglass insulation between the steel water tank and the outside
cosmetic steel cover. Some people add an additional water heater
insulating "jacket" on the outside of the heater. A thermal
insulating plastic layer between the water and the steel tank should
improve efficiency.
I was discussing a *gas* HWH, where you do want the heat from the
burner to be conducted through the tank to the water.
An easy way to tell if your water heater is a piece of junk is to
measure the case temperature of the water heater. Use a contact
thermometer (Thermocouple or thermistor, not optical IR). It's
probably the worst at the top of the heater. If the outer case is
warmer than the ambient air, you're wasting energy heating that
atmosphere instead of the water. Same with a refrigerator. If the
case of the fridge is colder than ambient, you're cooling the kitchen.
I suspect you suspicions about the
plastic buckling/warping and separating from the steel tank are
correct.
That was just a guess. I'm not so sure any more. The plastic liner
and steel tank are both fairly flexible, so they can bend and bulge
without breaking anything. You'll never see it because it all happens
inside the tank. If they're glued together (bonded) properly, I don't
think they will come apart. I was wondering why the water tank didn't
have stiffening ribs, which would allow the use of thinner steel. I
guess(tm) stiffening might interfere with the necessary flexing of the
tank with temperature.
I was thinking of the hot spots you could get with a gas HWH if the
plastic isn't in complete contact with the tank.
It should also be possible to dope the alumina ceramic coating with
something to help it match the coefficient of thermal expansion for
the steel. Even so, stratification, and the difference between
temperatures on both sides of the steel tank, will create enough of a
temperature gradient to possibly microcrack the ceramic.
Incidentally, it doesn't take much movement to wreck a ceramic
coating. I had a nice ceramic coated steel tea kettle that I usually
heat on the kitchen stove top to about 180C. One day, I stupidly put
it directly on top of my wood burner running at about 300C. I
compounded the error by boiling off all the water. My first
indication of a problem was the sound of something like popcorn from
inside the kettle. That was the inside coating flaking off and
bouncing around. As I approached, a large piece of the outside
coating flew off in my general direction. I had to use a broomstick
to remove the kettle. I haven't calculated the differences in
expansion, but for something as small as a kettle, it was much smaller
than my predicted 1mm.
M
micky
Guest
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 07:31:20 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:
It was the HOA's idea to put this light on my house, for secuirty
reasons, because I live right next to the path that goes into the woods.
(It used by JHS boys going in one direction, and HS boys going in the
other, to their respective schools, but 2 years ago a big tree fell down
blocking the path, with no good way to go around it, and now only one or
two kids use it. ).
The HOA people were looking at the house in the next building too, but I
wanted it here, so I could turn it off when I wanted too (not that I
ever have.) And they pay me $10 per quarter for the electricity I
use. It's been 20 years. I think they still do that. And the first
time the bulbs burnt out, I called the HOA and they sent a whole
electrician, with a ladder. Think how much that must have cost, just to
change a lightbulb. And I think I called once more when the fixture
itself had problems, but after that I couldn't bring myself to call
them. Now I'm going to look at it that the 10 dollars a quarter is
much more than the electricity costs, but it will eventually pay for the
fixture. 2 1/4years I guess. And the work I put in. Another year.
And then it can start paying for the time they towed my car away for no
good reason, and the time they threatened to.
<cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 10/18/2014 11:26 PM, micky wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:23:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
On some serial numbers, you can extract the date of manufacture:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/MajorAppliances/ApplianceManufacturers.html
http://www.electrical-forensics.com
Incidentally, the above web site has some rather interesting photos of
appliance related fires. For example, hot water heaters do NOT start
fires:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Hotwater/HotWaterHeaters.html
and portable electric heater misuse hazards:
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Heaters/ElectricHeaters.html
I'll check these out.
The ones that are good enough to be as bright,
can be twenty or thirty bucks per bulb. But,
if it means not having to go 24 feet up, might
be worth it.
It was the HOA's idea to put this light on my house, for secuirty
reasons, because I live right next to the path that goes into the woods.
(It used by JHS boys going in one direction, and HS boys going in the
other, to their respective schools, but 2 years ago a big tree fell down
blocking the path, with no good way to go around it, and now only one or
two kids use it. ).
The HOA people were looking at the house in the next building too, but I
wanted it here, so I could turn it off when I wanted too (not that I
ever have.) And they pay me $10 per quarter for the electricity I
use. It's been 20 years. I think they still do that. And the first
time the bulbs burnt out, I called the HOA and they sent a whole
electrician, with a ladder. Think how much that must have cost, just to
change a lightbulb. And I think I called once more when the fixture
itself had problems, but after that I couldn't bring myself to call
them. Now I'm going to look at it that the 10 dollars a quarter is
much more than the electricity costs, but it will eventually pay for the
fixture. 2 1/4years I guess. And the work I put in. Another year.
And then it can start paying for the time they towed my car away for no
good reason, and the time they threatened to.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
S
Stormin Mormon
Guest
On 10/19/2014 12:57 PM, micky wrote:
Someone should fine the HOA for the uncleared
tree. Yes, I've heard about HOA and towing
cars, seems to be a major passion of theirs.
I don't remember the details, but I do know
some folks who were visiting out of town. The
folks said fine to park in front of the house
while you stay over night. Car missing in Am,
$130 plus tow bill.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
Center posted, like yours.On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 07:31:20 -0400, Stormin Mormon
cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:
The ones that are good enough to be as bright,
can be twenty or thirty bucks per bulb. But,
if it means not having to go 24 feet up, might
be worth it.
It was the HOA's idea to put this light on my house, for secuirty
reasons, because I live right next to the path that goes into the woods.
(It used by JHS boys going in one direction, and HS boys going in the
other, to their respective schools, but 2 years ago a big tree fell down
blocking the path, with no good way to go around it, and now only one or
two kids use it. ).
Someone should fine the HOA for the uncleared
tree. Yes, I've heard about HOA and towing
cars, seems to be a major passion of theirs.
I don't remember the details, but I do know
some folks who were visiting out of town. The
folks said fine to park in front of the house
while you stay over night. Car missing in Am,
$130 plus tow bill.
The HOA people were looking at the house in the next building too, but I
wanted it here, so I could turn it off when I wanted too (not that I
ever have.) And they pay me $10 per quarter for the electricity I
use. It's been 20 years. I think they still do that. And the first
time the bulbs burnt out, I called the HOA and they sent a whole
electrician, with a ladder. Think how much that must have cost, just to
change a lightbulb. And I think I called once more when the fixture
itself had problems, but after that I couldn't bring myself to call
them. Now I'm going to look at it that the 10 dollars a quarter is
much more than the electricity costs, but it will eventually pay for the
fixture. 2 1/4years I guess. And the work I put in. Another year.
And then it can start paying for the time they towed my car away for no
good reason, and the time they threatened to.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
J
josephkk
Guest
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:56:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
No. Refrigerators always heat the kitchen, they have condensers as well
and ALL the heat removed from the interior and the operating losses are
added to the room heat.
?-)
wrote:
An easy way to tell if your water heater is a piece of junk is to
measure the case temperature of the water heater. Use a contact
thermometer (Thermocouple or thermistor, not optical IR). It's
probably the worst at the top of the heater. If the outer case is
warmer than the ambient air, you're wasting energy heating that
atmosphere instead of the water. Same with a refrigerator. If the
case of the fridge is colder than ambient, you're cooling the kitchen.
No. Refrigerators always heat the kitchen, they have condensers as well
and ALL the heat removed from the interior and the operating losses are
added to the room heat.
?-)
M
micky
Guest
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:35:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:
LOL. I hope not. I liked the kids and didn't mind them walking by,
but I'm happy the tree blocks their path. One or two of them would
ride their bikes on the grass, at least one of them even when the ground
was wet. One rider did about 10 times as much damage as one walker, and
one rider when it was wet did about 100 or 1000 times as much damage.
Anyhow, the land beyond mine is owned by Warren Buffett. I just learned
this a while back when the developer-apparent of a small old farm nearby
talked about who he dealt with concerining drainage from his property to
the stream. Well, he didnt deal with Buffet but with someone from his
company, maybe MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company's HomeServices of
America.
Oh, yeah. They'd tow away your house, if they could.
Darn.
<cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 10/19/2014 12:57 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 07:31:20 -0400, Stormin Mormon
cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote:
The ones that are good enough to be as bright,
can be twenty or thirty bucks per bulb. But,
if it means not having to go 24 feet up, might
be worth it.
It was the HOA's idea to put this light on my house, for secuirty
reasons, because I live right next to the path that goes into the woods.
(It used by JHS boys going in one direction, and HS boys going in the
other, to their respective schools, but 2 years ago a big tree fell down
blocking the path, with no good way to go around it, and now only one or
two kids use it. ).
Center posted, like yours.
Someone should fine the HOA for the uncleared
tree.
LOL. I hope not. I liked the kids and didn't mind them walking by,
but I'm happy the tree blocks their path. One or two of them would
ride their bikes on the grass, at least one of them even when the ground
was wet. One rider did about 10 times as much damage as one walker, and
one rider when it was wet did about 100 or 1000 times as much damage.
Anyhow, the land beyond mine is owned by Warren Buffett. I just learned
this a while back when the developer-apparent of a small old farm nearby
talked about who he dealt with concerining drainage from his property to
the stream. Well, he didnt deal with Buffet but with someone from his
company, maybe MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company's HomeServices of
America.
Yes, I've heard about HOA and towing
cars, seems to be a major passion of theirs.
Oh, yeah. They'd tow away your house, if they could.
I don't remember the details, but I do know
some folks who were visiting out of town. The
folks said fine to park in front of the house
while you stay over night. Car missing in Am,
$130 plus tow bill.
Darn.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 15:14:05 -0700, josephkk
<joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I wasn't suggesting that you measure the temperature of the back of
the refrigerator. Just the case temperatures, which means the sides,
front, and possibly the top. The coils in back will certainly heat up
the wall and the back of the case, but I don't think it's huge because
the room and room air make a rather large heat sink.
It's easy enough to estimate how much heat the fridge delivers to the
room. A fancy new energy efficient 18 cubic foot fridge uses about
500 kw-hr/year or an average of:
500 kw-hr/year * 1yr/365days = 1.4 kw-hr/day
Over 24 hrs, that's the equivalent of:
1400 watt-hrs/day / 24 hrs/day = 57 watts
That's about the same heat that would be delivered by a 60 watt light
bulb running all day in the same room. Like I mumbled... not much
heat. Older fridges are not that efficient, but even 3 to 5 times as
much heat would not make much of a difference in room temperature.
I just checked my bar size fridge with a thermocouple thermometer. The
front door is the same as ambient at 17C while the top and sides are
about 20C. So, for a decent fridge, you're correct and the sides are
warmer. However, I've seen refrigerators that were sweating condensed
water and felt seriously cold on the sides and door. Sears took it
back and replaced it with one that had more insulation, which worked
as expected. Since then, I've seen a few others that were cold to the
touch.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:56:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:
An easy way to tell if your water heater is a piece of junk is to
measure the case temperature of the water heater. Use a contact
thermometer (Thermocouple or thermistor, not optical IR). It's
probably the worst at the top of the heater. If the outer case is
warmer than the ambient air, you're wasting energy heating that
atmosphere instead of the water. Same with a refrigerator. If the
case of the fridge is colder than ambient, you're cooling the kitchen.
No. Refrigerators always heat the kitchen, they have condensers as well
and ALL the heat removed from the interior and the operating losses are
added to the room heat.
?-)
I wasn't suggesting that you measure the temperature of the back of
the refrigerator. Just the case temperatures, which means the sides,
front, and possibly the top. The coils in back will certainly heat up
the wall and the back of the case, but I don't think it's huge because
the room and room air make a rather large heat sink.
It's easy enough to estimate how much heat the fridge delivers to the
room. A fancy new energy efficient 18 cubic foot fridge uses about
500 kw-hr/year or an average of:
500 kw-hr/year * 1yr/365days = 1.4 kw-hr/day
Over 24 hrs, that's the equivalent of:
1400 watt-hrs/day / 24 hrs/day = 57 watts
That's about the same heat that would be delivered by a 60 watt light
bulb running all day in the same room. Like I mumbled... not much
heat. Older fridges are not that efficient, but even 3 to 5 times as
much heat would not make much of a difference in room temperature.
I just checked my bar size fridge with a thermocouple thermometer. The
front door is the same as ambient at 17C while the top and sides are
about 20C. So, for a decent fridge, you're correct and the sides are
warmer. However, I've seen refrigerators that were sweating condensed
water and felt seriously cold on the sides and door. Sears took it
back and replaced it with one that had more insulation, which worked
as expected. Since then, I've seen a few others that were cold to the
touch.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
S
Stormin Mormon
Guest
On 10/20/2014 12:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Eventually, the guys at church will use a couple more
of the flood lights that are as bright as a "real"
one. I'll try and take home one of the boxes. Will
let you know what brand and model and so on.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
I wasn't suggesting that you measure the temperature of the back of
the refrigerator. Just the case temperatures, which means the sides,
front, and possibly the top. The coils in back will certainly heat up
the wall and the back of the case, but I don't think it's huge because
the room and room air make a rather large heat sink.
It's easy enough to estimate how much heat the fridge delivers to the
room. A fancy new energy efficient 18 cubic foot fridge uses about
500 kw-hr/year or an average of:
500 kw-hr/year * 1yr/365days = 1.4 kw-hr/day
Over 24 hrs, that's the equivalent of:
1400 watt-hrs/day / 24 hrs/day = 57 watts
That's about the same heat that would be delivered by a 60 watt light
bulb running all day in the same room. Like I mumbled... not much
heat. Older fridges are not that efficient, but even 3 to 5 times as
much heat would not make much of a difference in room temperature.
I just checked my bar size fridge with a thermocouple thermometer. The
front door is the same as ambient at 17C while the top and sides are
about 20C. So, for a decent fridge, you're correct and the sides are
warmer. However, I've seen refrigerators that were sweating condensed
water and felt seriously cold on the sides and door. Sears took it
back and replaced it with one that had more insulation, which worked
as expected. Since then, I've seen a few others that were cold to the
touch.
Eventually, the guys at church will use a couple more
of the flood lights that are as bright as a "real"
one. I'll try and take home one of the boxes. Will
let you know what brand and model and so on.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
M
Mr. Man-wai Chang
Guest
On 13/10/14 3:53 AM, Bob F wrote:
Came across an interesting article:
Your eco-friendly LED lights are drawing an awful lot more moths
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/17/led-lights-drawing-more-insects/?a_dgi=aolshare_twitter
--
@~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 19 i686) Linux 3.14.22-100.fc19.i686
^ ^ 18:54:03 up 1 min 0 users load average: 0.21 0.13 0.05
ä¸ĺ貸! ä¸čŠé¨! ä¸ć´äş¤! ä¸ć交! ä¸ćĺŤ! ä¸čŞćŽş! čŤčć Žçść´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
The city street lights on my block are now LEDs, and they are plenty bright.
Came across an interesting article:
Your eco-friendly LED lights are drawing an awful lot more moths
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/17/led-lights-drawing-more-insects/?a_dgi=aolshare_twitter
--
@~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 19 i686) Linux 3.14.22-100.fc19.i686
^ ^ 18:54:03 up 1 min 0 users load average: 0.21 0.13 0.05
ä¸ĺ貸! ä¸čŠé¨! ä¸ć´äş¤! ä¸ć交! ä¸ćĺŤ! ä¸čŞćŽş! čŤčć Žçść´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
Guest
Eventually they should be. Right now they waste energy (produces heat but
not enough light) with transforming. I understand they will be doing pure
transistor voltage clipping which should be a heck of a lot more efficient
and produce fewer heat issues. This from asking dumb questions at trade shows
and fully understanding the folks at the booths might not really know. I have
a few 200W incandescents at home and haven't quite been able to replace
them. Then again I'm just a Chem Engr who took two oblig EE courses and grew
up with two vaccuum-tube-educated (photoypesetting and avionics) EE uncles.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
not enough light) with transforming. I understand they will be doing pure
transistor voltage clipping which should be a heck of a lot more efficient
and produce fewer heat issues. This from asking dumb questions at trade shows
and fully understanding the folks at the booths might not really know. I have
a few 200W incandescents at home and haven't quite been able to replace
them. Then again I'm just a Chem Engr who took two oblig EE courses and grew
up with two vaccuum-tube-educated (photoypesetting and avionics) EE uncles.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
I
Ian Jackson
Guest
In message <0sd0w.416186$412.141472@fx30.iad>, Scott Lurndal
<scott@slp53.sl.home> writes
A rather late follow-up.....
When I was very young, my uncle had a book that showed you how to make
things out of folded paper, One was 'working' kettle, and I remember
pestering my mother to help me make it up, then to boil some water in it
over a candle flame.
--
Ian
<scott@slp53.sl.home> writes
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:45:50 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:
Also, if there were a soft plastic inside liner, I
would expect it to melt from the heat of gas flame at the bottom.
Have you never boiled water in a styrofoam cup over an open flame?
One can. The water keeps the temperature of the foam below its
melting point.
A rather late follow-up.....
When I was very young, my uncle had a book that showed you how to make
things out of folded paper, One was 'working' kettle, and I remember
pestering my mother to help me make it up, then to boil some water in it
over a candle flame.
--
Ian