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I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old
tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a
great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated
pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if
it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when
applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm).
Same method I used, except the heater had 40 gallons of water in it.
It didn't move, but eventually the anode rod cap did.
Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters?
In sci.electronics.repair Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Insulating it with Teflon tape
doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact
wrench.
Seriously? You think the teflon tape will insulate it?
Pipe threads
are designed for an interference fit, the pipe threads will cut
through the tape with ease. The tape is just to fill the gap between
the male & female threads.
Just bend the rods when you remove them, they're either magnesium or
aluminum alloy on a wire. Replace with the bendable variety.
Inspect the rods every year or two, when you start to see mostly wire
it's time for replacement.
On 10/13/2014, 2:31 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:58:56 +1100, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
**In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10
Lumens/Watt. Good quality LEDs can manage between 100 ~ 120 Lumens/Watt.
I recently purchased a cheap, Chinese 100 Watt LED + power supply.
Without a reflector, it provides superior lighting to a standard 500
Watt halogen lamp (with reflector).
I took a couple of photos and found that the camera saw things
differently to the human eye. Although the halogen was distinctly yellow
and the LED very white, the amount of illumination was similar.
You're right should have compared lumens earlier on.
The maker's website
http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2-head+led+floodlight+with+motion+sensor.html#.VDrPJ1fDuM0
says about the one I was interested in "Each head contains (3) 4780K
high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 "
That's total for both heads. 1719 Lumens for a 3-head version.
Then I looked at 100 watt incandescent. Between 1000 and 1500 lumen
times 2 bulbs = 2000 to 3000 lumen.
So I don't know whether to buy 1222 LED lumens for $117 or 1719 lumens
for $150.
Or stay with incandescent for maybe $35 and hope they don't burn out so
fast if I get a good brand that doesn't turn on with the wind. I
almost never go there at night so if they don't turn on in the wind,
they'll burn less than 5 hours a year 2000 hour lifespan will be 400
years. Ugh.
50W LED flood is around 4,000 Lumens...and you can get them for around
$80USD @ Home Depot.
Do try to get ones that are UL (or CSA for Canada) approved for safety's
sake.
John :-#)#
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has
to be bright.
The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have
they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's
probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really
comparisons.
The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2
efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would
otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided
into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave
reflector with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are
saying the 3 together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt
LEDs, and is 10 watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts
incandescent?? That's what the floodlights use now, 200 watts total
per fixture.
On 12.10.2014 21:17, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has
to be bright.
The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have
they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's
probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really
comparisons.
The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2
efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would
otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided
into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave
reflector with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are
saying the 3 together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt
LEDs, and is 10 watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts
incandescent?? That's what the floodlights use now, 200 watts total
per fixture.
The manufacturer of the LED lamp has published some photometric data
(accessible via the link you posted). According to that data, the
luminary in question has a maximum output of 1165 lumens (lm).
That 1165 lm is not very much.
A normal (non-halogen) 200W incandescent lamp has a light output of 2500
lm (according to the datasheet for the Osram "Centra A CL 200"), and
that's a "mechanically rugged" type lamp with a thick filament that is
not even particularly efficient.
A 200W halogen incandescent lamp has a light output of 3500 lm (3520 lm
according to the datasheet for the Philips "Plusline Small 200W R7s 230V").
Depending on how efficient your previous lamp has been, you'll likely
need to either double or triple the LED lamp in order to match it.
Regards
Dimitrij
On 10/13/2014 01:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/13/2014 2:23 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Hi,
We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh.
I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on
220V.
If the unit was 110 V, do you think the
cost would be different?
Hint: Watt is a unit of work. You pay for
watts.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Actyally you pay for energy, kWh ( kilowatthours) not for power ( as
watt is).
ismo
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 19:38:16 +0300, Ismo Salonen
nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
On 10/13/2014 01:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/13/2014 2:23 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Hi,
We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh.
I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on
220V.
If the unit was 110 V, do you think the
cost would be different?
Hint: Watt is a unit of work. You pay for
watts.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Actyally you pay for energy, kWh ( kilowatthours) not for power ( as
watt is).
True. But otoh, the appliance is rated in watts. People have to keep
track of their own time, the time they keep the tub hot, which is
presumably the same no matter what the voltage.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:59:20 +0100, Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net> wrote:
What are these tanks made of that they need sacrificial anodes (of
magnesium etc. I assume)? As far as I know over here most/all these type
of tanks and cylinders are Cu sheet and have no anodes of this type.. !
Informative post tho! C+
Not copper. That would be far too expensive. The tank is made from
steel, which is either enamel or glass coated for protection. The
problem is that the glass or enamel can crack (or micro-crack)
allowing the water to contact the steel and eventually corrode a hole
in the tank.
The sacrificial anode corrodes instead of the steel
tank. It's exactly the same as the common zinc sacrificial anode used
to protect steel hulls on boats.
Note: I am not a plumber, expert on hot water tanks, or hydraulic
engineer. I just happen to have had some experience replacing my
water tank twice in 35 years and found it useful to first read the
available literature before making any more mistakes.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 00:28:10 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:59:20 +0100, Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net> wrote:
What are these tanks made of that they need sacrificial anodes (of
magnesium etc. I assume)? As far as I know over here most/all these type
of tanks and cylinders are Cu sheet and have no anodes of this type.. !
Informative post tho! C+
Not copper. That would be far too expensive. The tank is made from
steel, which is either enamel or glass coated for protection. The
problem is that the glass or enamel can crack (or micro-crack)
allowing the water to contact the steel and eventually corrode a hole
in the tank.
Is this perhaps a gas water heater? When I took my electric water
heater apart, it had a steel shell but inside that was a flexible
plastic of some sort, milky clear/white, with maybe glass embedded in
the plastic. It was 1/4" thick or more and was never going to break,
because I pulled it away from the metal and bend it 60 degrees and there
was no cracking.
It was sold by Sears but seemed identical to the one that was first in
the house, by A.O.Smith. (I'm not positive it's labeled glass-lined
but people make it sound like all of the tanks are.)
When I brought it home I worried about dropping it, because I had heard
they were lined with glass, so I thought they would be fragile, but like
I say, it would have been impossible to break the glass.
Is this perhaps a gas water heater? When I took my electric water
heater apart, it had a steel shell but inside that was a flexible
plastic of some sort, milky clear/white, with maybe glass embedded in
the plastic. It was 1/4" thick or more and was never going to break,
because I pulled it away from the metal and bend it 60 degrees and there
was no cracking.
It was sold by Sears but seemed identical to the one that was first in
the house, by A.O.Smith. (I'm not positive it's labeled glass-lined
but people make it sound like all of the tanks are.)
When I brought it home I worried about dropping it, because I had heard
they were lined with glass, so I thought they would be fragile, but like
I say, it would have been impossible to break the glass.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:45:50 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:
Also, if there were a soft plastic inside liner, I
would expect it to melt from the heat of gas flame at the bottom.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:44:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
One can. The water keeps the temperature of the foam below its
melting point.
True. However, a gas water heater has to deal with stratification,
where the water is much hotter near the flame than near the tank
outlet. I couldn't determine how much of a temperature difference by
Googling. You're probably correct that it won't melt if it's decent
plastic, but I'm still suspicious. Unless secured to the steel tank,
it might soften, warp, bend, buckle, or otherwise provide an excuse
for water to get to the steel. From there, it's only the anode rod
that protects the steel tank from corrosion.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:45:50 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:
Also, if there were a soft plastic inside liner, I
would expect it to melt from the heat of gas flame at the bottom.
Have you never boiled water in a styrofoam cup over an open flame?
One can. The water keeps the temperature of the foam below its
melting point.
Think porcelin like a sink or bath tub. It's firmly bonded to the
metal.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:45:50 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:
Is this perhaps a gas water heater? When I took my electric water
heater apart, it had a steel shell but inside that was a flexible
plastic of some sort, milky clear/white, with maybe glass embedded in
the plastic. It was 1/4" thick or more and was never going to break,
because I pulled it away from the metal and bend it 60 degrees and there
was no cracking.
It was sold by Sears but seemed identical to the one that was first in
the house, by A.O.Smith. (I'm not positive it's labeled glass-lined
but people make it sound like all of the tanks are.)
When I brought it home I worried about dropping it, because I had heard
they were lined with glass, so I thought they would be fragile, but like
I say, it would have been impossible to break the glass.
Mine is electric. See:
"What's inside a hot water heater?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFt9rCzsyY
The video showing the inside of the tank start at about 4:30. As far
as I can see, it's just a steel tank with some manner of plating on
the inside. That's roughly what I found when I sawed apart my
original water heater, except that there was much more rust and lime
accumulation. Also, if there were a soft plastic inside liner, I
Here's collection of AO Smith residential gas water heater data
sheets:
http://www.hotwater.com/resources/product-literature/spec-sheets/residential-gas/
I checked a few and most offer variations on the glass lining such as:
"BLUE DIAMOND Ž GLASS COATING
An A. O. Smith exclusive provides superior corrosion
resistance compared to the industry-standard glasslining"
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:45:50 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:
Is this perhaps a gas water heater? When I took my electric water
heater apart, it had a steel shell but inside that was a flexible
plastic of some sort, milky clear/white, with maybe glass embedded in
the plastic. It was 1/4" thick or more and was never going to break,
because I pulled it away from the metal and bend it 60 degrees and there
was no cracking.
It was sold by Sears but seemed identical to the one that was first in
the house, by A.O.Smith. (I'm not positive it's labeled glass-lined
but people make it sound like all of the tanks are.)
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:13:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote as underneath :
snip
Incidentally, you might be amused at how water heaters are rated and
priced. A few years ago, the bottom of my 40 gallon electric water
heater filled with calcium carbonate causing the lower heating element
to blow out. It was rusted in place and not easily replaced. The
heater was old, so I decided a new heater was best. I went to the
local Home Depot store and noticed that heaters were rated and priced
by their warranty life as 6, 9, and 12 year heaters. Current prices
are:
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Water-Heaters-Residential-Electric
/N-5yc1vZc1u1Z2bcu0t?NCNI-5> $248, $338, and $548 respectively. I
asked what was the difference and received a few bad guesses. The
weight of these heaters was exactly the same, so there was no
difference in tank design or construction. The 6 year heater used
lower power elements, but that shouldn't effect the cost.
I eventually determined that the primary difference was the anode
protection rod in each heater. The 6 year heater used a very small
anode rod. The 9 year used a much larger anode. The 12 year had dual
anodes. The problem was the rods cost about $25/each which is
reflected in the $100 to $200 price difference between the three
models. The 6 year heater had the port for the 2nd anode sealed shut,
so I bought the 9 year model, and added a 2nd anode for a cost of
about $25. Net savings from the 12 year model:
$548 - $338 - $25 = $185
I also installed a permanent drain line, so that the calcium carbonate
will not accumulate again.
snip
What are these tanks made of that they need sacrificial anodes (of
magnesium etc. I assume)? As far as I know over here most/all these
type of tanks and cylinders are Cu sheet and have no anodes of this
type.. ! Informative post tho! C+
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:44:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:45:50 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:
Also, if there were a soft plastic inside liner, I
would expect it to melt from the heat of gas flame at the bottom.
Have you never boiled water in a styrofoam cup over an open flame?
Yes. It requires a heat spreader between the cup and the flame. Apply
the flame directly and the hot spot will burn a hole in the styrofoam.
One can. The water keeps the temperature of the foam below its
melting point.
True. However, a gas water heater has to deal with stratification,
where the water is much hotter near the flame than near the tank
outlet. I couldn't determine how much of a temperature difference by
Googling. You're probably correct that it won't melt if it's decent
plastic, but I'm still suspicious. Unless secured to the steel tank,
it might soften, warp, bend, buckle, or otherwise provide an excuse
for water to get to the steel. From there, it's only the anode rod
that protects the steel tank from corrosion.
ALso plastic doesn't conduct heat all that well, leading to an
inefficient WH. Also a gas HWH has a pretty powerful burner, mine's
rated at 40,000 BTU/hour input.
I suspect you suspicions about the
plastic buckling/warping and separating from the steel tank are
correct.