Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real flood

M

micky

Guest
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2
efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would
otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided
into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector
with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3
together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10
watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what
the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture.

The maker's website
http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2-head+led+floodlight+with+motion+sensor.html#.VDrPJ1fDuM0
says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output
of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and
operates at 60Hz."

I like the idea of LED, because it's very difficult to change the bulb
on one of my two** double-flloodlights.***, but not if it's not going to
light up the area.

Mostly what I'm looking for is a light that won't go on because of the
wind, but will go on when a person walks by.

This one, despite the high price, $116, only has 6 LEDs (2 by HD's
counting method!).
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Twin-Head-LED-Outdoor-Motion-Sensing-Bronze-Floodlight-OFLR-6LC-120-MO-BZ/202598344

The same thing with three sets of three LEDs is 150 dollars, implying
that one group of three and the holder is $34
The same thing with photocell but no motion sensor is 98 dollars,
impliying that they're only charging 18 dollars for the motion sensor
and most of the price is for the LEDs.

Thanks.


Details that the electronics guys may find boring. Hey, everyone may
find them boring!
**The other floodlight in the back of the house I put in right under my
bedroom window, so I can just lean out and change the bulb. I wired it
from the receptacle just below the window, so little effort to run the
wires, and it sure looks better than several of my neighbors' who let an
electrician or handyman run surface Romex or conduit from the back porch
light, most of whom no longer have a back porch light.

*** It's chest high when I'm in the attic, so that's about 24 feet (?,
two story house, plus attic. The first floor is about a foot above the
ground.) and I don't have a ladder that long. What I've done to adjust
the light sensor and change the bulb is to unscrew the winged folding
toggle nut inside the attic, remove the big washer, disconnect the Romex
and tie a string to the end of the wire, and lower the whole fixture to
the ground. Do my work there, and pull tthe fixture back up. The hard
parts are getting the romex through its hole, and gettting the long
screw to go though its assigned hole (which is a lot bigger than the
screw, but still not easy to find) so I can screw the toggle nut back
on. I've done this twice with no more than 10 minutes each time trying
to get the screw through, but I fear some time it will take me hours,
and it woudl be nice if it used LED's and never burned out. But at 23
feet high, the light has to be bright!!
 
micky wrote:
> Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The city street lights on my block are now LEDs, and they are plenty bright.
 
"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:gigl3adc5thb486h3lviq3vifeti536ob4@4ax.com
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2
efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would
otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided
into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector
with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3
together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10
watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what
the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture.

Compare lumens, no watts. Watts= enegy to produce lumens.

A reflector also makes a huge difference over a raw bulb. Type of
reflector also makes a difference...a given area at a given distance from
the light source will receive more light from a narrow beam reflector than
from a wide beam reflector.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
 
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:17:59 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

Yes. Spend $15 or more on a Lux Meter (photometer), measure the spot
intensities, and see for yourself:
<www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lux+meter+photometer>
I have one of these:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/110764870937>

However, there's a problem. The total light output of an LED light is
rated in lumens, not lux. Lux is just the intensity at a given point.
Focus the beam, and you get a really high lux value. Spread it out
into your floodlight, and the intensity is much less. Lumens is the
total output, in all directions. The right way to measure that is
with an integrating sphere:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrating_sphere>
My way is much easier, but not terribly accurate. However, it will do
nicely for comparisons. I recently threw together the procedure and
posted it to the rec.bicycles.tech newsgroup. Cut-n-pasted:

1. Point light at the wall in a dark room at a distance of 1 meter.
There's nothing sacred about the 1 meter distance. If 1 meter seems
too close, just pick another distance.

2. Measure the spot diameter on the wall. If the light slowly fades
away from the hot spot, just guess the half brightness points. If the
spot is oval shaped, measure both the maximum and minimum diameters
and calculate an average.

3. At the same 1 meter distance, use the Lux meter to measure the
brightness. This is not really correct, since lumens is the total
brightness, including the over spray. The brightness will also follow
a Gaussian curve over the spot diameter.

4. Calculate the beam width in degrees. Dust off the long forgotten
inverse trigonometric functions on your calculator:
Beam_width_in_degrees = 2 * arctan (spot_radius/dist)
where:
spot_radius = 1/2 * spot diameter, in your favorite units of measure
dist = distance between light and spot in same units of measure.

5. Using the values of lux, distance, and beamwidth, plug into one of
the calculators at:
<http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=19>
<https://ledstuff.co.nz/data_calculators.php>
to obtain lumens.

I would be interested in collecting results as I only have a few
bicycle lights and flashlights suitable for testing. Please include
measurements, maker, model, battery type, manufacturers rated lumens,
and condition of battery (new, used, old, leaking, dead). So far:

Light spot_dia dist width bright calc mfg
(cm) (cm) (deg) (lux) (lumens) (lumens)
5w Cree light hi 80 100 43.6 480 216 500
5w Cree light hi 51 100 28.6 900 175 500
5w Cree light lo 80 100 43.6 140 63 ?
Planet Bike 1 watt 20 100 11.4 3000 93 76 (new batt)
Maglite 3D LED 13 100 7.4 3600 47 131 (old batt)

There are other problems when comparing LED and incandescent
brightness. The spectra is not the same. Therefore the perceived
brightness will vary with the color temperature. Most lights have
some amount of over-spray outside of the spot area. The lux meter
will not capture these, resulting in some error. The intensity across
the spot is not uniform but tends to follow a Gaussian curve. Some
lights have a very hot spot in the middle, and then just fade out
towards the edges. Do your best and see how close to the rated lumens
you get.

Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2

Can't help you out on the question. But, I installed 21 Lithonia LED
can lights throughout my place. They cost a bit more than other brands,
but been real pleased with the lights/looks. Had to have 1 replacement
afterwards, and they sent me 2 with no questions asked.
 
On 13/10/2014 6:17 AM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2
efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would
otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided
into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector
with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3
together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10
watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what
the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture.

The maker's website
http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2-head+led+floodlight+with+motion+sensor.html#.VDrPJ1fDuM0
says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output
of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and
operates at 60Hz."

I like the idea of LED, because it's very difficult to change the bulb
on one of my two** double-flloodlights.***, but not if it's not going to
light up the area.

Mostly what I'm looking for is a light that won't go on because of the
wind, but will go on when a person walks by.

This one, despite the high price, $116, only has 6 LEDs (2 by HD's
counting method!).
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Twin-Head-LED-Outdoor-Motion-Sensing-Bronze-Floodlight-OFLR-6LC-120-MO-BZ/202598344

The same thing with three sets of three LEDs is 150 dollars, implying
that one group of three and the holder is $34
The same thing with photocell but no motion sensor is 98 dollars,
impliying that they're only charging 18 dollars for the motion sensor
and most of the price is for the LEDs.

Thanks.


Details that the electronics guys may find boring. Hey, everyone may
find them boring!
**The other floodlight in the back of the house I put in right under my
bedroom window, so I can just lean out and change the bulb. I wired it
from the receptacle just below the window, so little effort to run the
wires, and it sure looks better than several of my neighbors' who let an
electrician or handyman run surface Romex or conduit from the back porch
light, most of whom no longer have a back porch light.

*** It's chest high when I'm in the attic, so that's about 24 feet (?,
two story house, plus attic. The first floor is about a foot above the
ground.) and I don't have a ladder that long. What I've done to adjust
the light sensor and change the bulb is to unscrew the winged folding
toggle nut inside the attic, remove the big washer, disconnect the Romex
and tie a string to the end of the wire, and lower the whole fixture to
the ground. Do my work there, and pull tthe fixture back up. The hard
parts are getting the romex through its hole, and gettting the long
screw to go though its assigned hole (which is a lot bigger than the
screw, but still not easy to find) so I can screw the toggle nut back
on. I've done this twice with no more than 10 minutes each time trying
to get the screw through, but I fear some time it will take me hours,
and it woudl be nice if it used LED's and never burned out. But at 23
feet high, the light has to be bright!!

**In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10
Lumens/Watt. Good quality LEDs can manage between 100 ~ 120 Lumens/Watt.
I recently purchased a cheap, Chinese 100 Watt LED + power supply.
Without a reflector, it provides superior lighting to a standard 500
Watt halogen lamp (with reflector).

I took a couple of photos and found that the camera saw things
differently to the human eye. Although the halogen was distinctly yellow
and the LED very white, the amount of illumination was similar.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
 
*** It's chest high when I'm in the attic, so that's about 24 feet (?,

two story house, plus attic. The first floor is about a foot above the

ground.) and I don't have a ladder that long. What I've done to adjust

the light sensor and change the bulb is to unscrew the winged folding

toggle nut inside the attic, remove the big washer, disconnect the Romex

and tie a string to the end of the wire, and lower the whole fixture to

the ground. Do my work there, and pull tthe fixture back up. The hard

parts are getting the romex through its hole, and gettting the long

screw to go though its assigned hole (which is a lot bigger than the

screw, but still not easy to find) so I can screw the toggle nut back

on. I've done this twice with no more than 10 minutes each time trying

to get the screw through, but I fear some time it will take me hours,

and it woudl be nice if it used LED's and never burned out. But at 23

feet high, the light has to be bright!!

That's genius. If it were me I'd put my energy into making it even easier. But lowering it to the ground is by far the easiest way. Have you ever wondered how they change bulbs in those high mast freeway lights? They don't climb, the fixture lowers on a cable.

I only have one LED lamp in the house. I use it every day and it's been about four years, but one data point doesn't say much. I've only changed two outdoor floods in 6 years. I bought fluorescent replacements but am still waiting for one to fail so I can try them.
 
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014, Bob F wrote:

micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The city street lights on my block are now LEDs, and they are plenty bright.
I remember a few years back starting to cross on what I thought was a
green light, except it was red. I was somehow taking in the next corner's
light, that turned green earlier, and it had to be an LED arrangement,
because it was so much brighter than the light closer to me.

Michael
 
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 01:06:30 +0200, nestork
<nestork.e80c168@diybanter.com> wrote:

I have a Pelican flashlight with a single LED light source. That
flashlight is brighter than the old equivalent model Pelican Flashlights
with the incandescent bulbs.

So, yes, LED's can be brighter than incandescent bulbs.

I expect you'll have no problems with the LED flood light.

Thanks all.

It turns out this time that the HD price is the same as Amazon, maybe
less, but I just went to the store** and it wasn't in stock. I'm in no
hurry. I'll ship it to the store, or maybe to my house (over 50 dollars
shipping is free)


BTW, it got quite a few complaints about strobing or breaking within a
year on the Amazon site (and also on the HD site that was hard to read)
but overall still scored a 4.8 out of 5 (which should really be 3.8 out
of 4)


**HD didn't have any LED Lithonia floodlights, even though they had a 6
foot wide section, 15 feet high, of Lithonia floodlights etc.
Including a motion sensor that would wirelessly turn on an off mulitple
light sockets. And another one that would turn on and off a receptacle,
and beep when it did so.

WRT lights for the front door, they had Zenith/Heath that had low
lighting for 2, 4 hours or all night, and high lighting if the motion
sensor saw something. And some of the lights by Hampton Bay (house
brand?) had sensor that could control 325 watts, even though the most
that could be used in the light was 100. The other 225 could be
elsewhere, powered by the extra red wire. Lighting has gotten more
complicated since last I looked.
 
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:17:59 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Well, someone -- thank you -- reminded me to look at lumens
The maker's website
http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2-head+led+floodlight+with+motion+sensor.html#.VDrPJ1fDuM0
says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output
of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and
=========
operates at 60Hz."

I wasn't sure if this was per head, so I looked at the 3 head version,
and it said "Each head contains (3) 5339K high performance LEDs which
maintain 1,719 lumen output "

Different K value, but I guess they are giving the total, as they should
be.

And then I looked at 100 watt incandescent. About 1500 lumen times 2 =
3000 lumen.

So since I really can't judge how bright 1222 lumens from LEDs will be,
I don't kow whether to buy that 1222 for $117 or 1719 for $150.


Or stay with incandescent for much less and hope they don't burn out so
fast if I get a good brand that doesn't turn on with the wind. I
almost never go there at night so if they don't turn on in the wind,
they'll burn less than 5 hours a year 2000 hour lifespan will be 400
years. Ugh.
 
On 10/12/2014 11:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I didn't do so well. Through LED lighting transplants and juggling
some electronics, I managed to drop my monthly electric burn from an
average of 375 kw-hr in 2008 to about 315 kw-hr average in 2014.

Typical use here is 750 kw so overall, you are doing well.
 
On 13/10/2014 8:58 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

**In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10
Lumens/Watt.

**Oops. Make that 15 ~ 20 Lumens/Watt.


--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
 
"micky" wrote in message news:gigl3adc5thb486h3lviq3vifeti536ob4@4ax.com...

Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

Snip



I have a one Cree LED porch light that senses movement on our front porch.
Amazing how bright and coverage it has. Reflector of course. WW
 
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

I recently replaced a 95W flood light on the garage with an LED. It is
a whiter light and looks to be much brighter. I'm going to replace the
other bulb soon too. I really like it. The fixture is mounted about 15
feet high and give plenty of light in the driveway.
 
Mark wrote:
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2

Can't help you out on the question. But, I installed 21 Lithonia LED
can lights throughout my place. They cost a bit more than other brands,
but been real pleased with the lights/looks. Had to have 1 replacement
afterwards, and they sent me 2 with no questions asked.
 
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 20:52:58 -0600, Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca>
wrote:

Most of bulbs in the house is now all LEDs. Could see
some difference in the power bill.

I didn't do so well. Through LED lighting transplants and juggling
some electronics, I managed to drop my monthly electric burn from an
average of 375 kw-hr in 2008 to about 315 kw-hr average in 2014. See
spreadsheet and graph at:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/PG&E to Sept 2014-01.xls>
Note the trend lines. While my electricity consumption was going
down, PG&E was busy raising their rates and juggling the tiers. The
result was despite the lower consumption, I am still paying roughly
the same per month. Grumble.

Some analysis with a clamp on ammeter and kill-a-watt meter showed
that the bulk of my electric usage is the electric water heater. They
don't make an LED water heater and solar is not an option in a forest.
I'm looking into flash water heaters, but it looks like it would take
years to recover the initial investment. A wood burning water heater
using a hot tub as a hot water tank is a possibility, but doesn't work
well with my convenience lifestyle.




--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
Mark wrote:
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2

Can't help you out on the question. But, I installed 21 Lithonia LED
can lights throughout my place. They cost a bit more than other brands,
but been real pleased with the lights/looks. Had to have 1 replacement
afterwards, and they sent me 2 with no questions asked.
Hi,
Out kitchen had 75W pot flood lights. All been replaced with bright white
(color temp. 5000K,60W equivalent Philips bulbs dimmable, it is as bright as
ole bulbs. No problem. Most of bulbs in the house is now all LEDs. Could see
some difference in the power bill. They run always cool. Good in summer
time.
 
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/12/2014 11:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


I didn't do so well. Through LED lighting transplants and juggling
some electronics, I managed to drop my monthly electric burn from an
average of 375 kw-hr in 2008 to about 315 kw-hr average in 2014.

Typical use here is 750 kw so overall, you are doing well.
Hi,
We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh.
I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on 220V.
 
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?

The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to
be bright.

The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they
ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably
blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons.

The general answer is yes. My church has some flood
lights at the end of the gymnasium, and also in the
chapel. The facilities guys put in LED floods, which
work fine. They say the bulbs cost twenty to thirty
dollars each.

I'd test the bulb on the ground at night before
taking it that far in the air. Rig up a lamp cord.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
 
On 10/13/2014 2:23 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Hi,
We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh.
I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on
220V.

If the unit was 110 V, do you think the
cost would be different?

Hint: Watt is a unit of work. You pay for
watts.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
 

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