Buying Greeenland

[amdx]

On 8/30/2019 4:27 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 4:56:25 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/30/2019 3:21 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 30. august 2019 kl. 21.56.15 UTC+2 skrev amdx:
On 8/30/2019 10:54 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 30. august 2019 kl. 14.57.34 UTC+2 skrev Sylvia Else:
On 29/08/2019 3:17 am, amdx wrote:
 That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

                                       Mikek


I can't imagine the residents of Greenland even considering consenting
to the purchase unless Greenland became a fully-fledged state of the
USA, complete with domestic air services without passports.


I think they'd be more concerned about keeping their free healthcare,
free dentist, free education, welfare etc.


What makes you think it's free, Does Denmark pay for it?
If that's true, them I'll be happy to have Bernie's free healthcare as
long as we (the US) can find a country of 33,000,000,000 to foot the
bill. Because that's the population ratio of Denmark to Greenland.

But if that's true the people of Denmark are getting a raw deal.


people of Denmark get the same deal as the people of Greenland, except
Greenland also have free dental, in Denmark dental is only free while
under 18

http://www.sageandsimple.com/2016/02/free-healthcare-in-denmark/

" Free healthcare in Denmark is not free. Danish healthcare is an 8%
line item deduction of gross pay.

of course it is not "free", someone has to pay for it, it is paid by taxes
so you either win by not being sick or win by having the taxpayer pay your
medical bills

Free healthcare in Denmark does not cover physicals, vision or dental
care, and mental health services
are only partially covered and only in certain situations. Prescriptions
are full price..."

"full price", once it is more than ~$600 in a year the rest is paid for

Isn't that only the prescriptions?
Mikek

So? Isn't that still pretty durn good? In the US we pay for physicals typically which are a small part of payments. Neither vision nor dental are typically paid for. Mental health services are only paid for at a cursory level... they will pay for a handful of visits and then you are on your own.

You didn't read the article. A quote from the article, "Free healthcare
in Denmark does not cover physicals, vision or dental care,"

I only wish we had national healthcare in the US. Here we have "green" healthcare. If you have the "green", you get the care. If you don't, you are out of luck.

The latest thing forced on my private insurance by Obamacare regulations
was zero cost prescriptions for" I think the labeled them preventatives"
it said, I no longer had to pay for my cholesterol lowering medicine.
Yep saved me $3.42 a month on that prescription. On the other hand my
insurance premium increased $76 a month.
I managed to pay for my families private health insurance most of the
since 1981. There were a few times when we had a job that paid part of
the premium. But mostly we paid our own premium and still managed to
save money on what was often below or slightly above the national median
income.

Just to give some idea of the cost of an Obamacare healthcare policy
compared to a private policy. My good BCBS policy is $12,144, it has a
$10,000 deductible/max out of pocket, but then everything is paid.
I just put all my families info into an ACA calculator. The premium
for an Obamacare policy with a $6,300 deductible/max out of pocket, is
$31,730 or 2.6 times the cost of a private policy.
(They go a lot higher in other zip codes. Ex: Columbia SC. cost $43,209)
Now, even though the insurance company gets $31,730, the insured that
earned $57,000 only pays $4,292 per year. The taxpayers pay the rest at
$27,438.
I find this incredible, and maybe hard to beleive, if you care to
verify for your zip code or Columbia SC. 29203. Try, >
https://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/ There are others or
you can go right to Marketplace.gov.
Mikek

People talk about "free" emergency room care as being adequate for those who can't pay. There are so many things wrong with that it's too much for this discussion.

Medical care in the US is abysmal considering what we are capable of doing and what the current system costs us. But we have middle class health insurance which placates most people. If you are working and your employer pays for your insurance, it feels close to being "free". But that is an illusion. Once you get sick for a long enough time you can and will lose your company paid for insurance. Then you have to pay your own premiums on top of paying the co-pays, the deductibles and the items just plain not covered.

A friend of mine died from leukemia after her insurance company stopped paying their share. The treatment was working, but the company changed their mind and stopped payment. The doctors argued for her and she got payment back after some months but by then it was too late and she died a few months later.

I know another person who had cancer and got audited by the IRS because his deductions were so high from all the charges insurance didn't cover.

Medical insurance needs to go.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 5:03:17 AM UTC+10, dca...@krl.org wrote:

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:22:58 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:


It's also a trifle unrealistic. The Clinton's both trained as lawyers
and would be very careful not to take any money that might look like a bribe to somebody who knew the laws involved.

That what the Clintons were doing,

That's what Trader4 likes to think that the Clinton's were doing.

If he had any money, the Clintons would sue him for libel, and win bigtime.

ROTFLMAO Whitewater

Whitewater was just an earlier incarnation of Trader4.

Ken Starr was never able to find anything worth prosecuting. Trader4 wants some kind of kangaroo court, but the US system hasn't been corrupted enough - yet - to deliver what he wants. Dan is just as silly.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Dan

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 4:23:13 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:15:18 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/08/19 01:18, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:26:45 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/19 22:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 1:36:47 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 7:44:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 7:31 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 2:09:21 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 1:44 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 1:16:59 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

Mikek



You get your news via Pony Express or similar? Been in a coma?




trumpets think that if they say "great idea Trump" enough they might get
an invitation at kneeling down and kissing his wrinkly orange butt. What
an honor!

It's simply stunning how Trump hijacked the Republican Party and robbed
it of all it's principles, morality and it's policies. He tells
one lie after another, says stupid or horrible things, and they cheer him
on.

Lol but the Republican party has been 85% cowardly do-as-I-say-not-as-I
do hypocritical I'm-against-"handouts"-for-everybody-but-me racist
slimeballs for 50 years, probably.

Trump didn't "hijack" anything Trump was the guy American Republicans
always wanted for long time.

Maybe so, we;ll see how it ultimately turns out for them. I warned
everyone I could about Trump when there were 15 other candidates that
were decent and sane, but the trumpets had to have Trump. I thought
that when he leveled that vile insult at McCain and they followed up
by disparaging all POWs, 'I prefer the ones that were not captured".
that it would be the end of him. That happened early on in the
primary campaign, right after he announced. If anything, it just
propelled him on. That's when I knew something very strange and very
bad was happening.





It's why he succeeded while Mitt Romney fell flat on his face can you
imagine Mitt ever saying he liked to grab some pussy from time to time?
oooh yeah Mitt, grab me by the pussy Mitt...oh you so sexaaay.

It's why John McCain failed, Republicans think he was a moron for going
to Viet Nam and getting his ass shot down and being a huge
embarrassment, he should have stayed home dodged the draft and
paaaaaaaaartay!


If that's true, it's rather odd that the Republicans picked both of those
men to be their presidential candidate. George Will recently said that
what Trump has done is worse than Nixon. He said Nixon did his dirty deeds
in secret, he hid them and when they were exposed, it brought him down.
Trump does his lying, insulting, vilifying, dividing, openly and brazenly.
And that will be much harder to get over, he's normalized the despicable.



The question to me is, do the Trump haters respect the concept of
citizens electing their leaders, or do they think that they are always
right and the flyover hicks are wrong?

That obviously will differ among all the people who dislike and don't
approve of Trump.



In some areas of science and engineering, rightness is mathematically
provable. In more complex and chaotic systems, the interesting cases,
it's not, but that doesn't stop people from thinking they are right.
Quite the opposite. Belief becomes tribal when not corrected by
experiment.

I used to really appreciate George Will, but I fear he has become
another victim of Washington institutional capture.

I don't see that. I see a guy who like many of us saw what Trump was from
the very beginning and tried to warn everyone. George Will just isn't
going to sell his soul to the orange clown, as sadly so many others have.
Funny thing, those that have, there is now a huge wake of them, left in
Trump's debris field, as he throws them under the bus. Yet, amazingly
there are plenty more willing to go do a deal with the devil.

It's becoming increasingly obviously that Trump isn't right in the head,
he's becoming more and more erratic, which should be a concern to all.
He's even done a full turn on Fox now, mad that even Fox presents things
that don't make him look good. Like they did a poll that showed him
losing to the Democrats. Trump thinks that it's Fox's job to bury that,
to lie, to make things up that make Trump look good.


What you are saying is that you don't respect the idea of democracy,
that different people have different opinions, and that we vote and
respect the outcome in a civilized manner.

That should be a two way street. Once elected, the
office holder should respect the opinions of those
that did not vote for him.

I'm speaking from a country which, until last week,
was a representative democracy, but now is a elected
dictatorship - just like Putin's Russia.

Yes, our PM has just told my elected representative
to fuck off and come back when it is too late to
represent the opinion of those that elected him.

A parlimentary system seems totally chaotic to me.

No more chaotic than the US system. Different, yes,
but not inherently more chaotic.

In a parliamentary system, aren't there times when there is "no
government" ?

What happens if, heaven forbid, you need one?

In fact the existing administration remains in power as a caretaker government.
They aren't in a position to initiate new legislation, but they have all the other powers that they had when parliament (note the spelling) was sitting.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 9:18:50 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

On 8/30/2019 4:27 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 4:56:25 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/30/2019 3:21 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 30. august 2019 kl. 21.56.15 UTC+2 skrev amdx:
On 8/30/2019 10:54 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 30. august 2019 kl. 14.57.34 UTC+2 skrev Sylvia Else:
On 29/08/2019 3:17 am, amdx wrote:
 That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

                                       Mikek


I can't imagine the residents of Greenland even considering consenting
to the purchase unless Greenland became a fully-fledged state of the
USA, complete with domestic air services without passports.


I think they'd be more concerned about keeping their free healthcare,
free dentist, free education, welfare etc.


What makes you think it's free, Does Denmark pay for it?
If that's true, them I'll be happy to have Bernie's free healthcare as
long as we (the US) can find a country of 33,000,000,000 to foot the
bill. Because that's the population ratio of Denmark to Greenland.

But if that's true the people of Denmark are getting a raw deal.


people of Denmark get the same deal as the people of Greenland, except
Greenland also have free dental, in Denmark dental is only free while
under 18

http://www.sageandsimple.com/2016/02/free-healthcare-in-denmark/

" Free healthcare in Denmark is not free. Danish healthcare is an 8%
line item deduction of gross pay.

of course it is not "free", someone has to pay for it, it is paid by taxes
so you either win by not being sick or win by having the taxpayer pay your
medical bills

Free healthcare in Denmark does not cover physicals, vision or dental
care, and mental health services
are only partially covered and only in certain situations. Prescriptions
are full price..."

"full price", once it is more than ~$600 in a year the rest is paid for

Isn't that only the prescriptions?
Mikek

So? Isn't that still pretty durn good? In the US we pay for physicals typically which are a small part of payments. Neither vision nor dental are typically paid for. Mental health services are only paid for at a cursory level... they will pay for a handful of visits and then you are on your own.

You didn't read the article. A quote from the article, "Free healthcare
in Denmark does not cover physicals, vision or dental care,"


I only wish we had national healthcare in the US. Here we have "green" healthcare. If you have the "green", you get the care. If you don't, you are out of luck.


The latest thing forced on my private insurance by Obamacare regulations
was zero cost prescriptions for" I think the labeled them preventatives"
it said, I no longer had to pay for my cholesterol lowering medicine.
Yep saved me $3.42 a month on that prescription. On the other hand my
insurance premium increased $76 a month.

You are saying one fine day the ACA plan finally kicked in and made your drug a no co-payment item and that same day your insurance company raised your rates $76 to cover that?

I managed to pay for my families private health insurance most of the
since 1981. There were a few times when we had a job that paid part of
the premium. But mostly we paid our own premium and still managed to
save money on what was often below or slightly above the national median
income.

The median income puts you in a position you *should* be able to pay for care... as long as you are health. If you had private insurance before the ACA had anyone on your policy gotten sick and needed significant care at the end of your term you could expect to see HUGE rate increases or just plain denial of coverage. It was only because of the ACA insurance companies can't drop you for putting in claims when your policy is up for renewal.

Just to give some idea of the cost of an Obamacare healthcare policy
compared to a private policy. My good BCBS policy is $12,144, it has a
$10,000 deductible/max out of pocket, but then everything is paid.
I just put all my families info into an ACA calculator. The premium
for an Obamacare policy with a $6,300 deductible/max out of pocket, is
$31,730 or 2.6 times the cost of a private policy.
(They go a lot higher in other zip codes. Ex: Columbia SC. cost $43,209)
Now, even though the insurance company gets $31,730, the insured that
earned $57,000 only pays $4,292 per year. The taxpayers pay the rest at
$27,438.
I find this incredible, and maybe hard to beleive, if you care to
verify for your zip code or Columbia SC. 29203. Try,
https://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/ There are others or
you can go right to Marketplace.gov.
Mikek

If the private policy is so much cheaper, even if it is apples to oranges (different deductable and OOPMax) why would you go for the ACA plan? What is different about the two?

I used your link and for TN, 38572 there would be no financial help for a single person making $57,000 a year and the ACA Silver plan would be $6,333 a year. The Bronze plan is about half that. That page refers to an "actuarial value" which is the approx percentage of the total medical costs that would be paid for a "typical" user. For the Silver plan it is 70% for the Bronze it is 60%.

How does your BCBS plan compare? Sounds to me like something is wrong with these comparisons.


> > Medical insurance needs to go.

Part of the issue with insurance is that it should help people get medical care when they have issues affording it. With huge deductibles and out of pocket expenses it still makes medical care intimidating for many even when they have insurance.

The part I really don't like is that very few people are willing to step up to the plate and say, "Yes, we need to fix this". Of the few that do, they want to replace it all with a overarching Medicare. Personally, I'd rather have something like the British have which just pays for medical treatments and comes out of taxes. In our case I think it is reasonable to tax businesses at a similar level to the insurance premiums they pay now. The businesses will see no net change so they can't complain.

The ones complaining will be the insurance companies. They would start talking about the death squads!

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Robert Baer]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 29/08/2019 3:17 am, amdx wrote:
  That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until
they get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

                                        Mikek


I can't imagine the residents of Greenland even considering consenting
to the purchase unless Greenland became a fully-fledged state of the
USA, complete with domestic air services without passports.

Sylvia.

"Without passports" will never happen, as one is needed now almost to
SEE an airplane at an airport...

 

[amdx]

The latest thing forced on my private insurance by Obamacare regulations
was zero cost prescriptions for" I think the labeled them preventatives"
it said, I no longer had to pay for my cholesterol lowering medicine.
Yep saved me $3.42 a month on that prescription. On the other hand my
insurance premium increased $76 a month.
 I managed to pay for my families private health insurance most of the
since 1981. There were a few times when we had a job that paid part of
the premium. But mostly we paid our own premium and still managed to
save money on what was often below or slightly above the national median
income.

Just to give some idea of the cost of an Obamacare healthcare policy
compared to a private policy. My good BCBS policy is $12,144, it has a
$10,000 deductible/max out of pocket, but then everything is paid.
 I just put all my families info into an ACA calculator. The premium
for an Obamacare policy with a $6,300 deductible/max out of pocket, is
$31,730 or 2.6 times the cost of a private policy.
(They go a lot higher in other zip codes. Ex: Columbia SC. cost $43,209)
 Now, even though the insurance company gets $31,730, the insured that
earned $57,000 only pays $4,292 per year. The taxpayers pay the rest at
$27,438.
 I find this incredible, and maybe hard to beleive, if you care to
verify for your zip code or Columbia SC. 29203. Try,
https://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/ There are others or
you can go right to Marketplace.gov.
                                        Mikek

ARRGH!
This is one of those times when Thunderbird does not display anything
in your post, so I had to go to google groups and copy/paste.

> If the private policy is so much cheaper, even if it is apples to oranges (different deductable and OOPMax) why would you go for the ACA plan? What is different about the two?

I never thought it would last, I hoped it wouldn't last, I think it's
just another welfare plan, (sheesh, making other people pay for your
health insurance) and I don't need welfare.
Oh, and I couldn't keep my doctor.
Yes, it cost me over $30 grand, maybe more.
I frequent a group with many millionaires*, they love the ACA. They
tailor their investments to adjust their families income so they get
maximum ACA subsidy. I'm a bit of a thorn in there side when I complain
them taking the subsidy.

* These are the type of millionaires that follow the theme, "If you have
a million dollars and live like a millionaire, you won't have a million
dollars for long. They live with a frugal $40k to $80k spending. There
is no alarm clock in their life of freedom.

I used your link and for TN, 38572 there would be no financial help for a single person making $57,000 a year and the ACA Silver plan would be $6,333 a year. The Bronze plan is about half that. That page refers to an "actuarial value" which is the approx percentage of the total medical costs that would be paid for a "typical" user. For the Silver plan it is 70% for the Bronze it is 60%.

Funny, I get that the plan cost is $37,324, customer cost is $4292 and
the taxpayers cost $33,022. Oh I see the difference, I'm using my
situation, two parents and two kids.

How does your BCBS plan compare? Sounds to me like something is wrong with these comparisons.

Nope, I used my family.

Mikek

Medical insurance needs to go.

Part of the issue with insurance is that it should help people get medical care when they have issues affording it. With huge deductibles and out of pocket expenses it still makes medical care intimidating for many even when they have insurance.

The part I really don't like is that very few people are willing to step up to the plate and say, "Yes, we need to fix this". Of the few that do, they want to replace it all with a overarching Medicare. Personally, I'd rather have something like the British have which just pays for medical treatments and comes out of taxes. In our case I think it is reasonable to tax businesses at a similar level to the insurance premiums they pay now. The businesses will see no net change so they can't complain.

The ones complaining will be the insurance companies. They would start talking about the death squads!

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:23:35 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

The latest thing forced on my private insurance by Obamacare regulations
was zero cost prescriptions for" I think the labeled them preventatives"
it said, I no longer had to pay for my cholesterol lowering medicine.
Yep saved me $3.42 a month on that prescription. On the other hand my
insurance premium increased $76 a month.
 I managed to pay for my families private health insurance most of the
since 1981. There were a few times when we had a job that paid part of
the premium. But mostly we paid our own premium and still managed to
save money on what was often below or slightly above the national median
income.

Just to give some idea of the cost of an Obamacare healthcare policy
compared to a private policy. My good BCBS policy is $12,144, it has a
$10,000 deductible/max out of pocket, but then everything is paid.
 I just put all my families info into an ACA calculator. The premium
for an Obamacare policy with a $6,300 deductible/max out of pocket, is
$31,730 or 2.6 times the cost of a private policy.
(They go a lot higher in other zip codes. Ex: Columbia SC. cost $43,209)
 Now, even though the insurance company gets $31,730, the insured that
earned $57,000 only pays $4,292 per year. The taxpayers pay the rest at
$27,438.
 I find this incredible, and maybe hard to beleive, if you care to
verify for your zip code or Columbia SC. 29203. Try,
https://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/ There are others or
you can go right to Marketplace.gov.
                                        Mikek

ARRGH!
This is one of those times when Thunderbird does not display anything
in your post, so I had to go to google groups and copy/paste.

If the private policy is so much cheaper, even if it is apples to oranges (different deductable and OOPMax) why would you go for the ACA plan? What is different about the two?

I never thought it would last, I hoped it wouldn't last, I think it's
just another welfare plan, (sheesh, making other people pay for your
health insurance) and I don't need welfare.

Uh, in case you don't understand, that's what insurance is. You pay until you need care, then other people pay for you. What about that is welfare?

I guess you mean the type of insurance where the premiums are paid for by taxes? Ok, the difference is you don't get a choice in paying for it which means the only choice you get is whether you use it or not. Bottom line is many don't get medical care any other way. None of your objections mean shit to me until you find a better way to assure everyone gets medical care.

You seem to want to make it all about you. I don't give a damn what you were paying and what you pay now or what you will pay in the future. This method doesn't work. That's it. Simple enough? Oh, I forgot, you only care about YOUR medical care.

Oh, and I couldn't keep my doctor.
Yes, it cost me over $30 grand, maybe more.
I frequent a group with many millionaires*, they love the ACA. They
tailor their investments to adjust their families income so they get
maximum ACA subsidy. I'm a bit of a thorn in there side when I complain
them taking the subsidy.

* These are the type of millionaires that follow the theme, "If you have
a million dollars and live like a millionaire, you won't have a million
dollars for long. They live with a frugal $40k to $80k spending. There
is no alarm clock in their life of freedom.

I don't give a damn about your BS millionaires getting the ACA subsidy. I seriously doubt they give a damn either.

The ACA isn't about them or you. It is about getting medical care for the other 20 some percent of the US who didn't have medical care before the ACA..

I used your link and for TN, 38572 there would be no financial help for a single person making $57,000 a year and the ACA Silver plan would be $6,333 a year. The Bronze plan is about half that. That page refers to an "actuarial value" which is the approx percentage of the total medical costs that would be paid for a "typical" user. For the Silver plan it is 70% for the Bronze it is 60%.

Funny, I get that the plan cost is $37,324, customer cost is $4292 and
the taxpayers cost $33,022. Oh I see the difference, I'm using my
situation, two parents and two kids.


How does your BCBS plan compare? Sounds to me like something is wrong with these comparisons.

Nope, I used my family.

Still seems rather off. If one person can get insurance for $6000, why can't four get insurance for $24000? Four times $3,000 is only $12,000 a year.. You say $37,000, so something is still off.

It's time to get rid of the anti-competitive insurance companies.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:2e16bf8a-3795-4823-
96ea-8c5b90d485b8@googlegroups.com:

I'm sure you'll tell us all that is perfectly proper.
He got away with a lot of similar pay-to-play.

Since NK's money is not recognized by any banks, how is it you think
they were going to pay him? Gold bullion? Illegal Krugerands?

You get that off the did not go to the moon website?

 

[amdx]

On 8/30/2019 11:17 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 11:23:35 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

The latest thing forced on my private insurance by Obamacare regulations
was zero cost prescriptions for" I think the labeled them preventatives"
it said, I no longer had to pay for my cholesterol lowering medicine.
Yep saved me $3.42 a month on that prescription. On the other hand my
insurance premium increased $76 a month.
 I managed to pay for my families private health insurance most of the
since 1981. There were a few times when we had a job that paid part of
the premium. But mostly we paid our own premium and still managed to
save money on what was often below or slightly above the national median
income.

Just to give some idea of the cost of an Obamacare healthcare policy
compared to a private policy. My good BCBS policy is $12,144, it has a
$10,000 deductible/max out of pocket, but then everything is paid.
 I just put all my families info into an ACA calculator. The premium
for an Obamacare policy with a $6,300 deductible/max out of pocket, is
$31,730 or 2.6 times the cost of a private policy.
(They go a lot higher in other zip codes. Ex: Columbia SC. cost $43,209)
 Now, even though the insurance company gets $31,730, the insured that
earned $57,000 only pays $4,292 per year. The taxpayers pay the rest at
$27,438.
 I find this incredible, and maybe hard to beleive, if you care to
verify for your zip code or Columbia SC. 29203. Try,
https://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/ There are others or
you can go right to Marketplace.gov.
                                        Mikek

ARRGH!
This is one of those times when Thunderbird does not display anything
in your post, so I had to go to google groups and copy/paste.

If the private policy is so much cheaper, even if it is apples to oranges (different deductable and OOPMax) why would you go for the ACA plan? What is different about the two?

I never thought it would last, I hoped it wouldn't last, I think it's
just another welfare plan, (sheesh, making other people pay for your
health insurance) and I don't need welfare.

Uh, in case you don't understand, that's what insurance is. You pay until you need care, then other people pay for you. What about that is welfare?

The taxpayer subsidy! The subsidy is often 91.5% of the bill. I don't
have the insurance but I help pay the bill. That's welfare.

I guess you mean the type of insurance where the premiums are paid for by taxes? Ok, the difference is you don't get a choice in paying for it which means the only choice you get is whether you use it or not. Bottom line is many don't get medical care any other way. None of your objections mean shit to me until you find a better way to assure everyone gets medical care.

You seem to want to make it all about you. I don't give a damn what you were paying and what you pay now or what you will pay in the future. This method doesn't work. That's it. Simple enough? Oh, I forgot, you only care about YOUR medical care.


Oh, and I couldn't keep my doctor.
Yes, it cost me over $30 grand, maybe more.
I frequent a group with many millionaires*, they love the ACA. They
tailor their investments to adjust their families income so they get
maximum ACA subsidy. I'm a bit of a thorn in there side when I complain
them taking the subsidy.

* These are the type of millionaires that follow the theme, "If you have
a million dollars and live like a millionaire, you won't have a million
dollars for long. They live with a frugal $40k to $80k spending. There
is no alarm clock in their life of freedom.

I don't give a damn about your BS millionaires getting the ACA subsidy.

It's not BS, plenty of pages on how to structure your passive income to
maximize your ACA subsidy. Here's a line from this page about Obamacare,
this was just after the legislation passed.

"I’ve also discovered that even millionaires will be eligible for health
care subsidies. More equality is a welcome relief from the constant
class warfare rhetoric and discriminatory policies we hear from Capital
Hill."


And a little of the philosophy of how get the subsidy, "When it comes to
paying income taxes and receiving health care subsidies, it’s generally
better to be middle to lower middle class. The philosophy on Financial
Samurai is to be wealthy but blend in with the crowd. Staying in the
shadows is even more important as an early retiree because we are no
longer contributing as much to society, yet we don’t look as old as we
should which may anger some people.

https://www.financialsamurai.com/subsidy-amounts-by-income-limits-for-the-affordable-care-act-obamacare/

The ACA numbers are dated, but it all about structuring your income,
more importantly your MAGI to qualify for the subsidy.


I seriously doubt they give a damn either.

Well they do give a damn, that's why the are asking questions about how
to reduce there MAGI, to make themselves qualify for the subsidy.

The ACA isn't about them or you. It is about getting medical care for the other 20 some percent of the US who didn't have medical care before the ACA.

I think the number on the ACA is about 3.8%.

I used your link and for TN, 38572 there would be no financial help for a single person making $57,000 a year and the ACA Silver plan would be $6,333 a year. The Bronze plan is about half that. That page refers to an "actuarial value" which is the approx percentage of the total medical costs that would be paid for a "typical" user. For the Silver plan it is 70% for the Bronze it is 60%.

Funny, I get that the plan cost is $37,324, customer cost is $4292 and
the taxpayers cost $33,022. Oh I see the difference, I'm using my
situation, two parents and two kids.


How does your BCBS plan compare? Sounds to me like something is wrong with these comparisons.

Nope, I used my family.

Still seems rather off. If one person can get insurance for $6000, why can't four get insurance for $24000? Four times $3,000 is only $12,000 a year. You say $37,000, so something is still off.

It's time to get rid of the anti-competitive insurance companies.

Try putting in a 64 yr old and a 60 year old and two kids 18 and 20.
Nothing is off except the data you are putting in. I should have pointed
out our ages, it makes a difference.
Mikek

 

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in news:qkbv0q$h2p$1@dont-email.me:

What makes you think it's free, Does Denmark pay for it?
If that's true, them I'll be happy to have Bernie's free
healthcare as long as we (the US) can find a country of
33,000,000,000 to foot the bill. Because that's the population
ratio of Denmark to Greenland.

Bullshit.

33B to 1

You are an abject idiot.

Zero nations have that many folks. The entire planet does not have
that many folks, idiot.

Your neural ratio with real men is 33 quadrillion to 1.

And it shows.

 

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:feqime9j96q4urcup9nmd7m41qc473o7pp@4ax.com:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:54:54 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
newshnfmed4j69oep2ji6ohl0ghf98q3hocaf@4ax.com:

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:44:39 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net
wrote:

On 8/28/19 8:02 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 12:17:00 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net
wrote:

That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there
until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen
again. Great idea Trump. \

Mikek

Why are all these posters getting their panties twisted over
things that they have no influence on, when they could be
designing electronics?


Yo yo yo, they call me the panty-twister, the pussy-grabber,
I'm an Ohms Law bone-saw tight flow Mister Transistor with tight
game for fly sisters to nab her

And these posters be posers disrespect the solder-slinger
soldiers, but they be Cabbage Patch kid-holders,
Math class dozers,
Face card flop-folders,


Usenet destroyers.



Too many broken vias in that assembly.

Continuity promiscuity

We haven't had a bad PCB, open or short, in years. We do specify
bare-board testing.

It was a continuation of the theme, witisism whiner idiot. You
must have a continuity issue there, unless you are the one making the
joke, eh?

Old PCBs had issues with vias. The count was actually a
consideration during the design cycles.

Continuity promiscuity. Any idiot could see the joke.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 30/08/19 19:23, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:15:18 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/08/19 01:18, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:26:45 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/19 22:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 1:36:47 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 7:44:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 7:31 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 2:09:21 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 1:44 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 1:16:59 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

Mikek



You get your news via Pony Express or similar? Been in a coma?




trumpets think that if they say "great idea Trump" enough they might get
an invitation at kneeling down and kissing his wrinkly orange butt. What
an honor!

It's simply stunning how Trump hijacked the Republican Party and robbed
it of all it's principles, morality and it's policies. He tells
one lie after another, says stupid or horrible things, and they cheer him
on.

Lol but the Republican party has been 85% cowardly do-as-I-say-not-as-I
do hypocritical I'm-against-"handouts"-for-everybody-but-me racist
slimeballs for 50 years, probably.

Trump didn't "hijack" anything Trump was the guy American Republicans
always wanted for long time.

Maybe so, we;ll see how it ultimately turns out for them. I warned
everyone I could about Trump when there were 15 other candidates that
were decent and sane, but the trumpets had to have Trump. I thought
that when he leveled that vile insult at McCain and they followed up
by disparaging all POWs, 'I prefer the ones that were not captured".
that it would be the end of him. That happened early on in the
primary campaign, right after he announced. If anything, it just
propelled him on. That's when I knew something very strange and very
bad was happening.





It's why he succeeded while Mitt Romney fell flat on his face can you
imagine Mitt ever saying he liked to grab some pussy from time to time?
oooh yeah Mitt, grab me by the pussy Mitt...oh you so sexaaay.

It's why John McCain failed, Republicans think he was a moron for going
to Viet Nam and getting his ass shot down and being a huge
embarrassment, he should have stayed home dodged the draft and
paaaaaaaaartay!


If that's true, it's rather odd that the Republicans picked both of those
men to be their presidential candidate. George Will recently said that
what Trump has done is worse than Nixon. He said Nixon did his dirty deeds
in secret, he hid them and when they were exposed, it brought him down.
Trump does his lying, insulting, vilifying, dividing, openly and brazenly.
And that will be much harder to get over, he's normalized the despicable.



The question to me is, do the Trump haters respect the concept of
citizens electing their leaders, or do they think that they are always
right and the flyover hicks are wrong?

That obviously will differ among all the people who dislike and don't
approve of Trump.



In some areas of science and engineering, rightness is mathematically
provable. In more complex and chaotic systems, the interesting cases,
it's not, but that doesn't stop people from thinking they are right.
Quite the opposite. Belief becomes tribal when not corrected by
experiment.

I used to really appreciate George Will, but I fear he has become
another victim of Washington institutional capture.

I don't see that. I see a guy who like many of us saw what Trump was from
the very beginning and tried to warn everyone. George Will just isn't
going to sell his soul to the orange clown, as sadly so many others have.
Funny thing, those that have, there is now a huge wake of them, left in
Trump's debris field, as he throws them under the bus. Yet, amazingly
there are plenty more willing to go do a deal with the devil.

It's becoming increasingly obviously that Trump isn't right in the head,
he's becoming more and more erratic, which should be a concern to all.
He's even done a full turn on Fox now, mad that even Fox presents things
that don't make him look good. Like they did a poll that showed him
losing to the Democrats. Trump thinks that it's Fox's job to bury that,
to lie, to make things up that make Trump look good.


What you are saying is that you don't respect the idea of democracy,
that different people have different opinions, and that we vote and
respect the outcome in a civilized manner.

That should be a two way street. Once elected, the
office holder should respect the opinions of those
that did not vote for him.

I'm speaking from a country which, until last week,
was a representative democracy, but now is a elected
dictatorship - just like Putin's Russia.

Yes, our PM has just told my elected representative
to fuck off and come back when it is too late to
represent the opinion of those that elected him.

A parlimentary system seems totally chaotic to me.

No more chaotic than the US system. Different, yes,
but not inherently more chaotic.


In a parlimentary sysrem, aren't there times when there is "no
government" ?

What happens if, heaven forbid, you need one?

There are conventions that are followed.
Or at least there used to be.

Our system is in the throws of a full-scale
nervous breakdown.

One of yesterday's examples...

Sajid Javid, the current chancellor of the exchequer
You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy–16 June
No comment–Thursday
and one of Javid's advisors has just been sacked by
the unelected Dominic Cummings, without Cummings
bothering to tell Javid. (There's more, but that's
sufficient!)

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 30/08/19 22:27, Rick C wrote:

A friend of mine died from leukemia after her insurance company stopped
paying their share. The treatment was working, but the company changed their
mind and stopped payment. The doctors argued for her and she got payment
back after some months but by then it was too late and she died a few months
later.

So the "death panel" was in the insurance company.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-08-29, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

The question to me is, do the Trump haters respect the concept of
citizens electing their leaders,

I'm sure that most of them do. They's be silly not to, after all
President Trump was not chosen by the people. he was chosen by
the states.

or do they think that they are always right and the flyover hicks
are wrong?

I see no strong evidence of that is this your new favouraite strawman
of something.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 9:01:21 PM UTC+10, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2019-08-29, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

The question to me is, do the Trump haters respect the concept of
citizens electing their leaders,

I'm sure that most of them do. They'd be silly not to, after all
President Trump was not chosen by the people. He was chosen by
the states.

or do they think that they are always right and the flyover hicks
are wrong?

I see no strong evidence of that. Is this your new favourite straw man
or something?

Hating Trump is a waste of time. So is being anxious about his antics.

He's clearly not up to the job, and not easily managed, but he in it until he is voted out.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/26/mike-pompeo-the-secretary-of-trump

is informative, if anything but comforting.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 1:06:55 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:2e16bf8a-3795-4823-
96ea-8c5b90d485b8@googlegroups.com:

I'm sure you'll tell us all that is perfectly proper.
He got away with a lot of similar pay-to-play.


Since NK's money is not recognized by any banks, how is it you think
they were going to pay him? Gold bullion? Illegal Krugerands?

You get that off the did not go to the moon website?

Why don't you ask Bill about that? He was the one that wanted to give
the speech in North Korea.

And obviously you're wrong about NK not being able to pay anyone, they
do trade with other countries.

Wrong, always wrong.

Now would be a good time to claim you're a Republican again too.

 

[amdx]

On 8/31/2019 1:07 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in news:qkbv0q$h2p$1@dont-email.me:

What makes you think it's free, Does Denmark pay for it?
If that's true, them I'll be happy to have Bernie's free
healthcare as long as we (the US) can find a country of
33,000,000,000 to foot the bill. Because that's the population
ratio of Denmark to Greenland.


Bullshit.

Nope

33B to 1

Don't know what that's about.

You are an abject idiot.

Check the mirror it might be you.

Zero nations have that many folks. The entire planet does not have
that many folks, idiot.

Did I say there was? I was being factious with regard to how many people
we would need to support US if Denmark is supporting Greenland.
The population of Denmark is 5.814 Million. The population of Greenland
is 55877. 5,814,000 / 55877 = 104.05. So in order to have the same ratio
of people as Greenland has to Denmark, we need to multiply the
population of the US by 104.05.
The population of the US is 327,200,000. 104.05 x 327,200,000 =
34,045,160,000. So, I was off by a factor of ten!
So we would need a nation of 34,045,160,000 to foot the bill.
Ok, you can chastise me for an error on the calculator. But you cannot
chastise me for what you read into what I say

Your neural ratio with real men is 33 quadrillion to 1.

And it shows.

Oh, you did check the mirror!
There you go taking things to literal again.
Mikek

 

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:15:05 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 31/08/19 14:49, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 07:50:51 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/08/19 19:23, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:15:18 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/08/19 01:18, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:26:45 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/19 22:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 1:36:47 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 7:44:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 7:31 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 2:09:21 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 1:44 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 1:16:59 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

Mikek



You get your news via Pony Express or similar? Been in a coma?




trumpets think that if they say "great idea Trump" enough they might get
an invitation at kneeling down and kissing his wrinkly orange butt. What
an honor!

It's simply stunning how Trump hijacked the Republican Party and robbed
it of all it's principles, morality and it's policies. He tells
one lie after another, says stupid or horrible things, and they cheer him
on.

Lol but the Republican party has been 85% cowardly do-as-I-say-not-as-I
do hypocritical I'm-against-"handouts"-for-everybody-but-me racist
slimeballs for 50 years, probably.

Trump didn't "hijack" anything Trump was the guy American Republicans
always wanted for long time.

Maybe so, we;ll see how it ultimately turns out for them. I warned
everyone I could about Trump when there were 15 other candidates that
were decent and sane, but the trumpets had to have Trump. I thought
that when he leveled that vile insult at McCain and they followed up
by disparaging all POWs, 'I prefer the ones that were not captured".
that it would be the end of him. That happened early on in the
primary campaign, right after he announced. If anything, it just
propelled him on. That's when I knew something very strange and very
bad was happening.





It's why he succeeded while Mitt Romney fell flat on his face can you
imagine Mitt ever saying he liked to grab some pussy from time to time?
oooh yeah Mitt, grab me by the pussy Mitt...oh you so sexaaay.

It's why John McCain failed, Republicans think he was a moron for going
to Viet Nam and getting his ass shot down and being a huge
embarrassment, he should have stayed home dodged the draft and
paaaaaaaaartay!


If that's true, it's rather odd that the Republicans picked both of those
men to be their presidential candidate. George Will recently said that
what Trump has done is worse than Nixon. He said Nixon did his dirty deeds
in secret, he hid them and when they were exposed, it brought him down.
Trump does his lying, insulting, vilifying, dividing, openly and brazenly.
And that will be much harder to get over, he's normalized the despicable.



The question to me is, do the Trump haters respect the concept of
citizens electing their leaders, or do they think that they are always
right and the flyover hicks are wrong?

That obviously will differ among all the people who dislike and don't
approve of Trump.



In some areas of science and engineering, rightness is mathematically
provable. In more complex and chaotic systems, the interesting cases,
it's not, but that doesn't stop people from thinking they are right.
Quite the opposite. Belief becomes tribal when not corrected by
experiment.

I used to really appreciate George Will, but I fear he has become
another victim of Washington institutional capture.

I don't see that. I see a guy who like many of us saw what Trump was from
the very beginning and tried to warn everyone. George Will just isn't
going to sell his soul to the orange clown, as sadly so many others have.
Funny thing, those that have, there is now a huge wake of them, left in
Trump's debris field, as he throws them under the bus. Yet, amazingly
there are plenty more willing to go do a deal with the devil.

It's becoming increasingly obviously that Trump isn't right in the head,
he's becoming more and more erratic, which should be a concern to all.
He's even done a full turn on Fox now, mad that even Fox presents things
that don't make him look good. Like they did a poll that showed him
losing to the Democrats. Trump thinks that it's Fox's job to bury that,
to lie, to make things up that make Trump look good.


What you are saying is that you don't respect the idea of democracy,
that different people have different opinions, and that we vote and
respect the outcome in a civilized manner.

That should be a two way street. Once elected, the
office holder should respect the opinions of those
that did not vote for him.

I'm speaking from a country which, until last week,
was a representative democracy, but now is a elected
dictatorship - just like Putin's Russia.

Yes, our PM has just told my elected representative
to fuck off and come back when it is too late to
represent the opinion of those that elected him.

A parlimentary system seems totally chaotic to me.

No more chaotic than the US system. Different, yes,
but not inherently more chaotic.


In a parlimentary sysrem, aren't there times when there is "no
government" ?

What happens if, heaven forbid, you need one?

There are conventions that are followed.
Or at least there used to be.

Our system is in the throws of a full-scale
nervous breakdown.

One of yesterday's examples...

Sajid Javid, the current chancellor of the exchequer
You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy–16 June
No comment–Thursday
and one of Javid's advisors has just been sacked by
the unelected Dominic Cummings, without Cummings
bothering to tell Javid. (There's more, but that's
sufficient!)

That's disgraceful. Our chaos is much better managed.

That's merely one small illustration of the chaos.
I couldn't even begin to state it all.

I know/knew Brexit would/will be a disaster.

I'm gobsmacked at how bad it is before brexit.

Our Brexit experience was also messy.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 31/08/19 14:49, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 07:50:51 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/08/19 19:23, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:15:18 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/08/19 01:18, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:26:45 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/19 22:29, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 1:36:47 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 7:44:07 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 7:31 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 2:09:21 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/28/19 1:44 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 1:16:59 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
That would be great! We could send all asylum seekers there until they
get their court date,
rather then release them into the states never to be seen again. Great
idea Trump. \

Mikek



You get your news via Pony Express or similar? Been in a coma?




trumpets think that if they say "great idea Trump" enough they might get
an invitation at kneeling down and kissing his wrinkly orange butt. What
an honor!

It's simply stunning how Trump hijacked the Republican Party and robbed
it of all it's principles, morality and it's policies. He tells
one lie after another, says stupid or horrible things, and they cheer him
on.

Lol but the Republican party has been 85% cowardly do-as-I-say-not-as-I
do hypocritical I'm-against-"handouts"-for-everybody-but-me racist
slimeballs for 50 years, probably.

Trump didn't "hijack" anything Trump was the guy American Republicans
always wanted for long time.

Maybe so, we;ll see how it ultimately turns out for them. I warned
everyone I could about Trump when there were 15 other candidates that
were decent and sane, but the trumpets had to have Trump. I thought
that when he leveled that vile insult at McCain and they followed up
by disparaging all POWs, 'I prefer the ones that were not captured".
that it would be the end of him. That happened early on in the
primary campaign, right after he announced. If anything, it just
propelled him on. That's when I knew something very strange and very
bad was happening.





It's why he succeeded while Mitt Romney fell flat on his face can you
imagine Mitt ever saying he liked to grab some pussy from time to time?
oooh yeah Mitt, grab me by the pussy Mitt...oh you so sexaaay.

It's why John McCain failed, Republicans think he was a moron for going
to Viet Nam and getting his ass shot down and being a huge
embarrassment, he should have stayed home dodged the draft and
paaaaaaaaartay!


If that's true, it's rather odd that the Republicans picked both of those
men to be their presidential candidate. George Will recently said that
what Trump has done is worse than Nixon. He said Nixon did his dirty deeds
in secret, he hid them and when they were exposed, it brought him down.
Trump does his lying, insulting, vilifying, dividing, openly and brazenly.
And that will be much harder to get over, he's normalized the despicable.



The question to me is, do the Trump haters respect the concept of
citizens electing their leaders, or do they think that they are always
right and the flyover hicks are wrong?

That obviously will differ among all the people who dislike and don't
approve of Trump.



In some areas of science and engineering, rightness is mathematically
provable. In more complex and chaotic systems, the interesting cases,
it's not, but that doesn't stop people from thinking they are right.
Quite the opposite. Belief becomes tribal when not corrected by
experiment.

I used to really appreciate George Will, but I fear he has become
another victim of Washington institutional capture.

I don't see that. I see a guy who like many of us saw what Trump was from
the very beginning and tried to warn everyone. George Will just isn't
going to sell his soul to the orange clown, as sadly so many others have.
Funny thing, those that have, there is now a huge wake of them, left in
Trump's debris field, as he throws them under the bus. Yet, amazingly
there are plenty more willing to go do a deal with the devil.

It's becoming increasingly obviously that Trump isn't right in the head,
he's becoming more and more erratic, which should be a concern to all.
He's even done a full turn on Fox now, mad that even Fox presents things
that don't make him look good. Like they did a poll that showed him
losing to the Democrats. Trump thinks that it's Fox's job to bury that,
to lie, to make things up that make Trump look good.


What you are saying is that you don't respect the idea of democracy,
that different people have different opinions, and that we vote and
respect the outcome in a civilized manner.

That should be a two way street. Once elected, the
office holder should respect the opinions of those
that did not vote for him.

I'm speaking from a country which, until last week,
was a representative democracy, but now is a elected
dictatorship - just like Putin's Russia.

Yes, our PM has just told my elected representative
to fuck off and come back when it is too late to
represent the opinion of those that elected him.

A parlimentary system seems totally chaotic to me.

No more chaotic than the US system. Different, yes,
but not inherently more chaotic.


In a parlimentary sysrem, aren't there times when there is "no
government" ?

What happens if, heaven forbid, you need one?

There are conventions that are followed.
Or at least there used to be.

Our system is in the throws of a full-scale
nervous breakdown.

One of yesterday's examples...

Sajid Javid, the current chancellor of the exchequer
You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy–16 June
No comment–Thursday
and one of Javid's advisors has just been sacked by
the unelected Dominic Cummings, without Cummings
bothering to tell Javid. (There's more, but that's
sufficient!)

That's disgraceful. Our chaos is much better managed.

That's merely one small illustration of the chaos.
I couldn't even begin to state it all.

I know/knew Brexit would/will be a disaster.

I'm gobsmacked at how bad it is before brexit.