Boris Johnson

[Ricky C]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 7:20:59 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 4:22:16 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
I just read this morning that he was going to the hospital but was "still working". Now they say he is in the ICU. I hope he can get a ventilator if he needs one. What if they run out just before they make that decision?

And here again is yet another prime example of the shallow, often non-existent, depths of Ricky's cognitive reasoning skills and abilities.

Boris Johnson tweets that he's working and feeling fine.
Then he's admitted the hospital.
OMG! I hope they don't run out of ventilators!!


WTF:?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU? Maybe he's in ICU out of an "abundance of caution". (After all, what hospital wants the reputation of being the one that killed the British Prime Minister?)

Now, before you bloviate "Oh no!! ICU Beds are scarce and only for the "worst of the worst". Or, it's against insurance laws to give ICU beds away like that, or whatever. Get real....

The last time my Mom was in the hospital, she was placed in ICU.
She was NOT an ICU candidate patient. She was however the former Director of Nursing for that hospital (for many, many years), and I'm certain that her friends, former colleagues, and hospital senior executive management moved her there because that was where the truly excellent healthcare was provided.

Then again... I don't know... Boris may already be dead.

But to leap to a panic about running out of ventilators for Boris??
Wow.

Not sure which of my posts worked you into a lather. But you seem to be venting all over the place. Why not take a deep breath and try to relax. I'm just some guy on the internet who shows you many of the ways you are wrong about things. That's all. No big deal.

Somehow I seem to have the same effect on Larkin. He can't bring himself to even read my posts anymore. But then he is used to being shown how he is wrong, so it doesn't actually upset him. He just ignores all the people showing him how wrong he is and continues being wrong.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[mpm]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 4:22:16 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
> I just read this morning that he was going to the hospital but was "still working". Now they say he is in the ICU. I hope he can get a ventilator if he needs one. What if they run out just before they make that decision?

And here again is yet another prime example of the shallow, often non-existent, depths of Ricky's cognitive reasoning skills and abilities.

Boris Johnson tweets that he's working and feeling fine.
Then he's admitted the hospital.
OMG! I hope they don't run out of ventilators!!


WTF:?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU? Maybe he's in ICU out of an "abundance of caution". (After all, what hospital wants the reputation of being the one that killed the British Prime Minister?)

Now, before you bloviate "Oh no!! ICU Beds are scarce and only for the "worst of the worst". Or, it's against insurance laws to give ICU beds away like that, or whatever. Get real....

The last time my Mom was in the hospital, she was placed in ICU.
She was NOT an ICU candidate patient. She was however the former Director of Nursing for that hospital (for many, many years), and I'm certain that her friends, former colleagues, and hospital senior executive management moved her there because that was where the truly excellent healthcare was provided.

Then again... I don't know... Boris may already be dead.

But to leap to a panic about running out of ventilators for Boris??
Wow.

 

[mpm]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 7:28:18 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Not sure which of my posts worked you into a lather. But you seem to be venting all over the place. Why not take a deep breath and try to relax. I'm just some guy on the internet who shows you many of the ways you are wrong about things. That's all. No big deal.

You are crazy and deluded.
You have yet to show me one thing I have been wrong about.

You think I am wrong because you have a reading comprehension issue.
It is all in YOUR head.

I can dumb it down for you though. No big deal.
Just a little extra typing on my part.

No big deal.

 

[Ricky C]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:07:02 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 7:28:18 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Not sure which of my posts worked you into a lather. But you seem to be venting all over the place. Why not take a deep breath and try to relax. I'm just some guy on the internet who shows you many of the ways you are wrong about things. That's all. No big deal.

You are crazy and deluded.
You have yet to show me one thing I have been wrong about.

You think I am wrong because you have a reading comprehension issue.
It is all in YOUR head.

I can dumb it down for you though. No big deal.
Just a little extra typing on my part.

No big deal.

You could have replied to the posts where I explained things to you quite clearly. Instead you jump into unrelated threads so you can ignore my posts but still criticize me.

Why can't we just have a discussion of the facts? I mean the sort of facts you find other than on Hannity. I don't mind explaining why the stuff you hear is mostly nonsense, but after the first round it isn't much fun to continue to have to convince you when the facts have already been laid out for you.

Why do you need to resort to raw, direct insults rather than discussing the facts?

I may be a bit more direct with my explanation of the facts as some would like to see, but they are still facts and can't be denied. Well, I guess anything can be denied.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 4:22:16 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
I just read this morning that he was going to the hospital but was "still working". Now they say he is in the ICU. I hope he can get a ventilator if he needs one. What if they run out just before they make that decision?

And here again is yet another prime example of the shallow, often non-existent, depths of Ricky's cognitive reasoning skills and abilities.

Boris Johnson tweets that he's working and feeling fine.
Then he's admitted the hospital.
OMG! I hope they don't run out of ventilators!!


WTF:?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU?

Actually he is in an ICU because he needs oxygen. He wouldn't have got into an ICU simply because he got his secondary eductaion at Eton and his university education at Balliol. Once he needed oxygen these facts would have helped him get in.

> Maybe he's in ICU out of an "abundance of caution".

That won't come into action until there is something to be cautious about.

> (After all, what hospital wants the reputation of being the one that killed the British Prime Minister?)

Getting a reputation as being a bunch of obsequious toadies isn't sought after either.

Now, before you bloviate "Oh no!! ICU Beds are scarce and only for the "worst of the worst". Or, it's against insurance laws to give ICU beds away like that, or whatever. Get real....

The last time my Mom was in the hospital, she was placed in ICU.
She was NOT an ICU candidate patient. She was however the former Director of Nursing for that hospital (for many, many years), and I'm certain that her friends, former colleagues, and hospital senior executive management moved her there because that was where the truly excellent healthcare was provided.

Then again... I don't know... Boris may already be dead.

But to leap to a panic about running out of ventilators for Boris??
Wow.

It's what you are doing.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[mpm]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:23:37 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:07:02 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 7:28:18 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Not sure which of my posts worked you into a lather. But you seem to be venting all over the place. Why not take a deep breath and try to relax. I'm just some guy on the internet who shows you many of the ways you are wrong about things. That's all. No big deal.

You are crazy and deluded.
You have yet to show me one thing I have been wrong about.

You think I am wrong because you have a reading comprehension issue.
It is all in YOUR head.

I can dumb it down for you though. No big deal.
Just a little extra typing on my part.

No big deal.

You could have replied to the posts where I explained things to you quite clearly. Instead you jump into unrelated threads so you can ignore my posts but still criticize me.

Why can't we just have a discussion of the facts?

Two reasons:
1) Nothing is a fact to you unless you happen to already agree with it.
2) You wouldn't actually recognize a fact even if it somehow got lodged in your ass requiring invasive surgery for extraction.

>I mean the sort of facts you find other than on Hannity.

See: Exactly THAT.
I NEVER claimed any text in that entire post was factual. Not once.
But you are somehow convinced that I did. See #2 above.

Your every reference to it since has been couched as my outlining some long series of "facts" that you think are wrong and don't agree with. Only problem: They weren't presented as facts. There is literally no basis for you to make statements like "I mean, the sort of facts you find other than on Hannity."

>I don't mind explaining why the stuff you hear is mostly nonsense,

It's really sweet of you to think that I need explanations - that I'm somehow too stupid and slow to know what's nonsense and what isn't. But the truth is I don't require your assistance, and it's frankly rude and condescending of you to CONTINUOUSLY suggest otherwise - not just to me, but to everybody here. The Google-fueled patronizing superiority rolls off your keyboard so effortlessly that you don't even realize you're doing it.

>but after the first round it isn't much fun to continue to have to convince >you when the facts have already been laid out for you.

Again, I don't need, or even more succinctly, want, YOUR so-called facts "laid out" for me like I'm some kind of child or dumbass. It's your constant supercilious attitude that's annoying. I can smell a fact from bullshit just as well as you - maybe even more so. As such, I seriously doubt your continued unsolicited tutelage in that regard will yield anything remotely breathtaking.

Why do you need to resort to raw, direct insults rather than discussing the facts?

See #2, above.
I'm happy to discuss (actual) facts (or even opinions not presented as irrefutable facts), once you gain some ability to distinguish them from whatever it is swirling around inside your head. (And note importantly, I don't claim to know what that swirling might be. I suspect a good dose of insecurity, but I could be wrong about that. It could be that you're just a poor communicator.)

I may be a bit more direct with my explanation of the facts as some would >like to see, but they are still facts and can't be denied. Well, I guess >anything can be denied.

It used to be a FACT that smoking was good for you.
It used to be a FACT that Pluto was a planet.
Many people believe it is a FACT that bananas grow on trees.

Supporting "evidence" for all of the above incorrect notions litter the internet.

Want to get along?

Try to cut back some on at least some of the condescension, and LISTEN to what people say, rather than immediately engage in ad hominem attacks when it doesn't precisely pattern match your own thoughts and opinions. In short, you can disagree without being disagreeable. You don't have to tear everyone down.

 

[mpm]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:39:51 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU?

Actually he is in an ICU because he needs oxygen.

Everyone needs Oxygen, Bill.

> He wouldn't have got into an ICU simply because he got his secondary eductaion at Eton and his university education at Balliol. Once he needed oxygen these facts would have helped him get in.

No argument there!

 

[Ricky C]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:41:11 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:23:37 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:07:02 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 7:28:18 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

Not sure which of my posts worked you into a lather. But you seem to be venting all over the place. Why not take a deep breath and try to relax. I'm just some guy on the internet who shows you many of the ways you are wrong about things. That's all. No big deal.

You are crazy and deluded.
You have yet to show me one thing I have been wrong about.

You think I am wrong because you have a reading comprehension issue.
It is all in YOUR head.

I can dumb it down for you though. No big deal.
Just a little extra typing on my part.

No big deal.

You could have replied to the posts where I explained things to you quite clearly. Instead you jump into unrelated threads so you can ignore my posts but still criticize me.

Why can't we just have a discussion of the facts?

Two reasons:
1) Nothing is a fact to you unless you happen to already agree with it.
2) You wouldn't actually recognize a fact even if it somehow got lodged in your ass requiring invasive surgery for extraction.

I mean the sort of facts you find other than on Hannity.

See: Exactly THAT.
I NEVER claimed any text in that entire post was factual. Not once.
But you are somehow convinced that I did. See #2 above.

Your every reference to it since has been couched as my outlining some long series of "facts" that you think are wrong and don't agree with. Only problem: They weren't presented as facts. There is literally no basis for you to make statements like "I mean, the sort of facts you find other than on Hannity."

I don't mind explaining why the stuff you hear is mostly nonsense,

It's really sweet of you to think that I need explanations - that I'm somehow too stupid and slow to know what's nonsense and what isn't. But the truth is I don't require your assistance, and it's frankly rude and condescending of you to CONTINUOUSLY suggest otherwise - not just to me, but to everybody here. The Google-fueled patronizing superiority rolls off your keyboard so effortlessly that you don't even realize you're doing it.

but after the first round it isn't much fun to continue to have to convince >you when the facts have already been laid out for you.

Again, I don't need, or even more succinctly, want, YOUR so-called facts "laid out" for me like I'm some kind of child or dumbass. It's your constant supercilious attitude that's annoying. I can smell a fact from bullshit just as well as you - maybe even more so. As such, I seriously doubt your continued unsolicited tutelage in that regard will yield anything remotely breathtaking.

Why do you need to resort to raw, direct insults rather than discussing the facts?

See #2, above.
I'm happy to discuss (actual) facts (or even opinions not presented as irrefutable facts), once you gain some ability to distinguish them from whatever it is swirling around inside your head. (And note importantly, I don't claim to know what that swirling might be. I suspect a good dose of insecurity, but I could be wrong about that. It could be that you're just a poor communicator.)


I may be a bit more direct with my explanation of the facts as some would >like to see, but they are still facts and can't be denied. Well, I guess >anything can be denied.

It used to be a FACT that smoking was good for you.
It used to be a FACT that Pluto was a planet.
Many people believe it is a FACT that bananas grow on trees.

Supporting "evidence" for all of the above incorrect notions litter the internet.

Want to get along?

Try to cut back some on at least some of the condescension, and LISTEN to what people say, rather than immediately engage in ad hominem attacks when it doesn't precisely pattern match your own thoughts and opinions. In short, you can disagree without being disagreeable. You don't have to tear everyone down.

This is exactly the sort of post I would go through and debunk item by item.. But you seem to think I would simply be disagreeing on what are facts. Sorry, facts are facts. Your bizarre discourse on cigarettes, Pluto and bananas aside.

We can either discuss the facts, real facts, not crap spewed by Dr. Oz, or you can just continue ranting behind your drawn blinds.

You resent my explaining things to you, but you clearly don't understand much of what you post about. The whole thing with hearing about a quack doctor on Hannity is exactly the sort of thing that has to be explained to you in extreme detail or you consider it to have some veracity. Even now, rather than learn from the info I and *others* have provided, you choose to be argumentative instead of being willing to discuss it in a reasonable manner..

So do you still consider Dr. Oz to be a useful and accurate source of information?

There are any number of potential treatments for this virus. Hydroxychloroquine is one of them. So far there have been nothing provided to indicate that it is a useful drug for treating this coronavirus other than poorly constructed reports that don't even qualify as "studies". It has been tested against other, similar viruses and found to not be effective. It has known safety issues which can be magnified by the patients condition in a serious illness like this.

Studies are being done by experienced researchers on Hydroxychloroquine as well as many other drugs. We will find out if they have any value in treating this disease. Dr. Oz has nothing to do with it other than promoting his books.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:46:23 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:39:51 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU?

Actually he is in an ICU because he needs oxygen.

Everyone needs Oxygen, Bill.

Everybody needs air, which mostly contains enough oxygen to do the job.

Boris Johnson needs to inhale a gas mixture which contains rather more oxygen.

Somebody with more sense than you would have understood that that was the message I was trying to convey. I've now wasted a certain amount of time and bandwidth to point out that you wasted time and bandwidth on ignoring the obvious. It's not entirely a waste of my time because it does help labelling you as stupid.

He wouldn't have got into an ICU simply because he got his secondary education at Eton and his university education at Balliol. Once he needed oxygen these facts would have helped him get in.

No argument there!

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:41:11 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:23:37 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:07:02 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 7:28:18 PM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

<snip>

> Again, I don't need, or even more succinctly, want, YOUR so-called facts "laid out" for me like I'm some kind of child or dumbass.

You may not be a child, but you aren't all that clever.

> It's your constant supercilious attitude that's annoying.

But justified.

> I can smell a fact from bullshit just as well as you - maybe even more so.

Or so you think.

> As such, I seriously doubt your continued unsolicited tutelage in that regard will yield anything remotely breathtaking.

Of course you don't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

<snip>

I may be a bit more direct with my explanation of the facts as some would >like to see, but they are still facts and can't be denied. Well, I guess >anything can be denied.

It used to be a FACT that smoking was good for you.

It used to be a medical opinion. When somebody bothered to test it, it proved to be a false and misleading opinion.

> It used to be a FACT that Pluto was a planet.

It's certainly true that Pluto was called a planet, before the definition of what constituted a planet was refined (and changed in the process).

> Many people believe it is a FACT that bananas grow on trees.

"The banana plant is the largest herbaceous flowering plant"."Plants are normally tall and fairly sturdy, and are often mistaken for trees, but what appears to be a trunk is actually a "false stem" or pseudostem."

Again, it is a question of definition.

> Supporting "evidence" for all of the above incorrect notions litter the internet.

There's quite a lot of imprecise use of words. You've just exhibited some more of it.

<snipped more pot calling the kettle black>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[mpm]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:18:55 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:46:23 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:39:51 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU?

Actually he is in an ICU because he needs oxygen.

Everyone needs Oxygen, Bill.

You missed this mistake?!
I can't believe you didn't avail yourself of the opportunity to peacock.

Somewhere along the line I got the notion that the names of elements were proper nouns requiring capitalization, but that is not the case. "My bad."

Everybody needs air, which mostly contains enough oxygen to do the job.

Boris Johnson needs to inhale a gas mixture which contains rather more oxygen.

Somebody with more sense than you would have understood that that was the message I was trying to convey. I've now wasted a certain amount of time and bandwidth to point out that you wasted time and bandwidth on ignoring the obvious. It's not entirely a waste of my time because it does help labelling you as stupid.

Your time is wasted because it has not achieved its objective.
You can keep trying, though.

BTW:
Top three Google search results just now for "Is Boris Johnson on a ventilator?"

Answer = NO.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/uk-pm-fights-worsening-coronavirus-symptoms-intensive-care-200407054354732.html

Answer = NO.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-04-07/boris-johnson-in-good-spirits-has-not-needed-ventilator

Answer = NO.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnson-stable-not-being-treated-ventilator-covid-breathing-2020-4

Thus, no basis for Ricky C's earlier panic about ventilator shortages in Boris's ICU. (...which was the original thrust of the reply)

One of the above articles mentions that (thus far) Boris has only required about one-forth of the oxygen typically administered to ICU patients, and that he was in "stable" condition and good spirits. All of which combined does tend to support my earlier assertion that Boris may be in the ICU more out of that "abundance of caution" thing, and not exclusively based on actual need. Which, admittedly is still just conjecture on my part.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:02:31 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:18:55 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:46:23 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:39:51 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that maybe (yes, "maybe") Boris is in ICU because he's privileged and patients get the best "round-the-clock" care in the ICU?

Actually he is in an ICU because he needs oxygen.

Everyone needs Oxygen, Bill.

You missed this mistake?!

Germans capitalise all proper nouns. It's more of a stylistic convention than anything else, and it doesn't confuse anybody.

> I can't believe you didn't avail yourself of the opportunity to peacock.

Your predictive powers aren't impressive.

Somewhere along the line I got the notion that the names of elements were proper nouns requiring capitalization, but that is not the case. "My bad."

Everybody needs air, which mostly contains enough oxygen to do the job.

Boris Johnson needs to inhale a gas mixture which contains rather more oxygen.

Somebody with more sense than you would have understood that that was the message I was trying to convey. I've now wasted a certain amount of time and bandwidth to point out that you wasted time and bandwidth on ignoring the obvious. It's not entirely a waste of my time because it does help labelling you as stupid.

Your time is wasted because it has not achieved its objective.

You may like to think so.

> You can keep trying, though.

I really don't have to bother. You do a perfectly adequate job of making the point on your own.

BTW:
Top three Google search results just now for "Is Boris Johnson on a ventilator?"

Answer = NO.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/uk-pm-fights-worsening-coronavirus-symptoms-intensive-care-200407054354732.html

Answer = NO.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-04-07/boris-johnson-in-good-spirits-has-not-needed-ventilator

Answer = NO.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnson-stable-not-being-treated-ventilator-covid-breathing-2020-4

Thus, no basis for Ricky C's earlier panic about ventilator shortages in Boris's ICU. (...which was the original thrust of the reply)

One of the above articles mentions that (thus far) Boris has only required about one-forth of the oxygen typically administered to ICU patients, and that he was in "stable" condition and good spirits. All of which combined does tend to support my earlier assertion that Boris may be in the ICU more out of that "abundance of caution" thing, and not exclusively based on actual need. Which, admittedly is still just conjecture on my part.

And a complete waste of time. Who cares? He needs some extra oxygen and he is getting it. If his lungs go further downhill, he may need more - people frequently do - and he could get it quicker if he was already in the ICU.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 8:02:31 AM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

> Thus, no basis for Ricky C's earlier panic about ventilator shortages in Boris's ICU. (...which was the original thrust of the reply)

<quote>
‘More ventilators!’ cried the journalists on Twitter. ‘Yes, more
ventilators!’ replied the politicians. ‘Where are the ventilators?’
demanded the journalists, now screaming on television. ‘Yes, even
more!’ replied the government, somewhat nonsensically.

I am a critical care physician, specializing in the use of such
machines. I’m flattered by all the attention our tools are receiving.
But I fear the current clamor reminds me of nothing so much as the
panic buyers of toilet-paper stampeding over each other in early March.
When the history of the COVID-19 pandemic in the Western world is
written, I do not believe ‘massive ramp-up of ventilator
manufacturing,’ will be credited with our deliverance.

....n the case of COVID-19, the preliminary outcome data is rather
dismal. On Monday, the New England Journal of Medicine published a
case series of very ill COVID-19 patients in Seattle with data up to
March 23: of the 20 patients who went on a ventilator, only four had
so far escaped the hospital alive. Nine had died. Three remained in
suspended animation, going on three or four weeks of ventilation.
Four escaped the ventilator but remained in hospital.

....To put it simply, we do not know how many lives ventilators could
or will save. It seems that at least two-thirds of attempts to stave
off death with their use will fail in the short term. Of the remaining
third, we do not know how many will be successful in the medium or long
term."
</quote>

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/ventilators-are-no-panacea.php

https://spectator.us/ventilators-arent-panacea-pandemic-coronavirus/

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[legg]

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 04:24:08 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 3:12:15 AM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2020/04/06 10:36 p.m., Ricky C wrote:
On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 10:50:43 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 1:22:16 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
I just read this morning that he was going to the hospital but was "still working". Now they say he is in the ICU. I hope he can get a ventilator if he needs one. What if they run out just before they make that decision?

Now I know what Jared Kushner meant when he said the federal stockpile of ventilators was "our stockpile", not for the states. What else is there in this country but the states? Oh, yeah, there are 50 states, Washington, D.C., a few territories and the Trump dynasty. So the federal stockpile of medical equipment is for the Trump dynasty.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

He did say "our" but he NEVER said "not the states." "Our" refers to the United States of America, not an individual or even a governor's. Just more libtard Trump bashing.

Have you ever looked up an item yourself rather than requiring everyone else to do your work. At the moment it's hard to visit a web page without finding a reference to Jared Kushner making a fool of himself with this quote...

"The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be our stockpile. It's not supposed to be states' stockpiles that they then use."

It would be nice to know exactly who "our stockpile" is for. Perhaps the
rich/powerful and their families? That seems to be in line with Trumps'
behaviour...


That couldn't be any more clear. It was in response to data showing requests from the states to release material from the stockpile to the states was reasonable based on the need. Sounds lot like a "NO" to me.

Like pressuring 3M to stop shipments to Canada and elsewhere - when 3M
gets the materials needed to MAKE the masks from Canada and elsewhere.
They don't grow in the vacuum between Trumps' ears...





There are millions of acres of tree farms in the United states that grow trees to build homes, and to make paper. The company my dad retired from had 1.5 million acres that they owned outright. It was obvious from the early days of manufacturing Corrugated Paper Boxes that they needed a steady suppl of pulp, and at a fixed price. None of that acreage is in Canada.

3M's bulk capacity to produce medical paper products
is in China. These Chinese plants were recently caught
redirecting shipments for their European customers to
the States. What do you call that?

I don't know where they get THAT pulp from - I expect
that they couldn't care less.

RL

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:55:11 AM UTC-4, legg wrote:

3M's bulk capacity to produce medical paper products
is in China. These Chinese plants were recently caught
redirecting shipments for their European customers to
the States. What do you call that?

When did China stop seizing the entire production for their own use? 3M can only ship Chinese made products to where China grants the permits. That's the problem with globalization. you are at the mercy of the local thuggery and their on the fly decisions. I'd like to see you force the Chinese government to release what you've ordered when they have seized it, and paid the OEM their wholesale price.

I don't know where they get THAT pulp from - I expect
that they couldn't care less.

China buys boatloads of used Corrugated Paper Boxes to recycle. I bought a small air compressor a couple years ago. They had glued a new layer on top of pieces cut from larger boxes, rather than make new corrugated paper.

The used paper gets shipped there on empty cargo ships returning from deliveries around the world.

 

[legg]

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:10:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:55:11 AM UTC-4, legg wrote:

3M's bulk capacity to produce medical paper products
is in China. These Chinese plants were recently caught
redirecting shipments for their European customers to
the States. What do you call that?


When did China stop seizing the entire production for their own use? 3M can only ship Chinese made products to where China grants the permits. That's the problem with globalization. you are at the mercy of the local thuggery and their on the fly decisions. I'd like to see you force the Chinese government to release what you've ordered when they have seized it, and paid the OEM their wholesale price.

The Chinese never had the requirements displayed by the US.
As a nation, it's per-capita requirement for PPE was never
more than 1/20 that of the present US demand.

China exports anywhere that their products are accepted.

It was 3M doing the 'redirecting' of PPE shipments.

RL

 

[legg]

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:10:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

China buys boatloads of used Corrugated Paper Boxes to recycle. I bought a small air compressor a couple years ago. They had glued a new layer on top of pieces cut from larger boxes, rather than make new corrugated paper.

The used paper gets shipped there on empty cargo ships returning from deliveries around the world.

You can't make PPE from recycled cardboard, or newspaper.
Cardboard and newspaper is largely ground-wood (think
construction paper, from Kindergarden)and binder.

Filtering PPE draws heavily on virgin 'sulphite' bales.
Requires heavy chemical processing and post processing
for fibre length and 'wet-strength'.

RL

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-08 13:06, legg wrote:

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:10:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

snip

China buys boatloads of used Corrugated Paper Boxes to recycle. I bought a small air compressor a couple years ago. They had glued a new layer on top of pieces cut from larger boxes, rather than make new corrugated paper.

The used paper gets shipped there on empty cargo ships returning from deliveries around the world.

You can't make PPE from recycled cardboard, or newspaper.
Cardboard and newspaper is largely ground-wood (think
construction paper, from Kindergarden)and binder.

Filtering PPE draws heavily on virgin 'sulphite' bales.
Requires heavy chemical processing and post processing
for fibre length and 'wet-strength'.

RL

Absolute filters are often made by dissolving polyethersulphone or
polyphenyleneethersulphone in an organic solvent such as NMP and adding
water, which makes it into a very uniform foam that can be cast into all
sorts of shapes.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:13:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-04-08 13:06, legg wrote:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:10:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

snip

China buys boatloads of used Corrugated Paper Boxes to recycle. I bought a small air compressor a couple years ago. They had glued a new layer on top of pieces cut from larger boxes, rather than make new corrugated paper.

The used paper gets shipped there on empty cargo ships returning from deliveries around the world.

You can't make PPE from recycled cardboard, or newspaper.
Cardboard and newspaper is largely ground-wood (think
construction paper, from Kindergarden)and binder.

Filtering PPE draws heavily on virgin 'sulphite' bales.
Requires heavy chemical processing and post processing
for fibre length and 'wet-strength'.

RL



Absolute filters are often made by dissolving polyethersulphone or
polyphenyleneethersulphone in an organic solvent such as NMP and adding
water, which makes it into a very uniform foam that can be cast into all
sorts of shapes.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

There's an article in today's paper about making masks. One cuts up
old t-shirts. My favorite is made from a bandana and a coffee filter.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:40:09 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

On 2020/04/07 7:05 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 12:28:08 +0100, TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com
wrote:

On 06/04/2020 21:22, Ricky C wrote:
I just read this morning that he was going to the hospital but was "still working". Now they say he is in the ICU. I hope he can get a ventilator if he needs one. What if they run out just before they make that decision?

He'll get one, even at the cost of someone else not getting one.Right
now, we probably have enough.My old company is contracted (as part of a
consortium) to build 15,000 ventilators ona 24/7 shift basis...Oxygen
supplies are getting short too.. No O2, no ventilation...
Just read about some statistics re black americans... 70% deaths yet
only 14% of population ( specific areas, and don't quote me on the
figures I just quote them as 'representative ish..)

The problem with black Americans is the high levels of obesity and
diabetes and other preconditions that make getting any virus more
dangerous. The ratios are not as bad as you suggested, but there is a
high level of C19 morbidity in places with high african-descent
populations.




Lack of adequate health care may be a factor too...

John

Fauci just said that africans aren't infected at higher rates but have
worse outcomes. Other sources claim they have higher infection rates
too. Racism is of course blamed for both effects.

Blood type seems to matter too. Of course there are biological
differences in suceptability; it would be criminal to insist
otherwise. Some people can't get HIV. My wife gets colds and I don't.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com