battery question

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-08-21, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.
Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings.

On windows, hibernation shouldn't draw any power. The snapshot is saved to
the hard drive and loaded back when you restart.
You may be referrring to sleep mode, which consumes power in minimum mode.

A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Pretty much all the UPS devices these days come with the software to
initiate safe shutdown or hibernation(or sleep).
Even they don't, there're always third party free and commercial software.

Many will operate driverless, by providing what appears to the computer
as a "hibernate button" with a USB interface

Yes, but hibernation shouldn't draw any power in windows.
Kinda contradicts the common sense meaning of hibernation for sure, but
that's how Bill Gates saw it.

It makes sense to me, hibernation is a deeper sleep than normal sleep.

The computer will still draw standby power unless the supply is cut.

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Damian]

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt8jlg$c8p$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2014-08-21, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.
Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings.

On windows, hibernation shouldn't draw any power. The snapshot is saved
to
the hard drive and loaded back when you restart.
You may be referrring to sleep mode, which consumes power in minimum
mode.

A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Pretty much all the UPS devices these days come with the software to
initiate safe shutdown or hibernation(or sleep).
Even they don't, there're always third party free and commercial
software.

Many will operate driverless, by providing what appears to the computer
as a "hibernate button" with a USB interface

Yes, but hibernation shouldn't draw any power in windows.
Kinda contradicts the common sense meaning of hibernation for sure, but
that's how Bill Gates saw it.

It makes sense to me, hibernation is a deeper sleep than normal sleep.

Bill Gates and microshit disagrees with you.

The computer will still draw standby power unless the supply is cut.

Computer still draws power, even when it's shut down, unless the supply is
cut.

>umop apisdn

I didn't do it. That wasn't me!!! ;-)

 

[Damian]

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt8j82$c8p$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2014-08-21, news13 <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:47:19 +1000, Damian wrote:


my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power
for long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on the
PC,
right?

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Yeah, even shutdown draws power if plugged into the power.
We call is "stand by" don't we? There's no such thing as free lunch, I
reckon.

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

Yep, that's what I was saying as well, at least for windows definition and
implementation of it.

If you want it to signal the PC to go into hibernation, then look for one
that will give a hibernation signal, followed by a shutdown if the UPS
battery drops significantly.

that's pointless and unneccessary.

Yep.

 

[Damian]

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lt8k6q$p38$1@dont-email.me...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?

By loading the saved "snapshot". That doesn't need the PC connected to the
power source to keep that snapshot.
That's what I was referring to.
Of course, technically, both hibernation and shutdown draws power in standby
mode, if the PC is plugged in.
That's the standard standby mode things all the electronic devices come with
nowadays.

 

[news13]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 13:44:25 +1000, Damian wrote:

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lt8k6q$p38$1@dont-email.me...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw
as shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?

By loading the saved "snapshot". That doesn't need the PC connected to
the power source to keep that snapshot.

What starts the loading?

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-08-23, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt8jlg$c8p$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-08-21, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.
Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings.

On windows, hibernation shouldn't draw any power. The snapshot is saved
to
the hard drive and loaded back when you restart.
You may be referrring to sleep mode, which consumes power in minimum
mode.

A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Pretty much all the UPS devices these days come with the software to
initiate safe shutdown or hibernation(or sleep).
Even they don't, there're always third party free and commercial
software.

Many will operate driverless, by providing what appears to the computer
as a "hibernate button" with a USB interface

Yes, but hibernation shouldn't draw any power in windows.
Kinda contradicts the common sense meaning of hibernation for sure, but
that's how Bill Gates saw it.

It makes sense to me, hibernation is a deeper sleep than normal sleep.

Bill Gates and microshit disagrees with you.

I don't really pay much attention to that. I figure give m$
terminology 20 years and if it's still in use then consider it,

I started calling directories folders earlier this year.

umop apisdn

I didn't do it. That wasn't me!!! ;-)

tag lines leak occasionaly... this one tests UTF-8 support a bit.

¡spuɐɥ ou 'ɐꟽ ʞooꞀ




--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Shed_Fiddler]

On 28-Jul-14 10:43 PM, Damian wrote:

"felix_unger" <me@nothere.biz> wrote in message
news:c3j3uvF2q3sU1@mid.individual.net...
On 27-July-2014 12:10 AM, Damian wrote:
"Bob Milutinovic" <cognicom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqiuaq$j1k$1@cognicom.eternal-september.org...
"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:MK6dnXema-h4U1HOnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:
On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:
the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement,
since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I
could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do

so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the
net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)



It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

In Sealed(and non sealed) lead acid batteries, it's a mechanical valve.

Like a vacuum tube?

 

[news13]

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 08:18:30 +0800, Clocky wrote:

On 23/08/2014 7:36 AM, news13 wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw
as shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?


By loading the saved snapshot on booting.

Err, I'll make it clearer for the idiots, if the system is shut down,
really shut down and not the modern dribbling power hibernation, then how
does it detect the "signal" to wake up?

Otherwise, it isn't shut down, but in a hibernation mode and consuming
power while it test if a signal has been received.

 

[atec77]

On 23/08/2014 10:11 PM, Kiddie_Fiddler wrote:

On 28-Ju
so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that
some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the
net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of
design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)



It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

In Sealed(and non sealed) lead acid batteries, it's a mechanical valve.




Like a vacuum tube?

er no , think schroder valve

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[SG1]

"atec77" <"atec77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ltb93b$4rj$1@dont-email.me...

On 23/08/2014 10:11 PM, Kiddie_Fiddler wrote:
On 28-Ju
so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that
some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on
the
net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of
design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)



It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

In Sealed(and non sealed) lead acid batteries, it's a mechanical valve.




Like a vacuum tube?

er no , think schroder valve

As in Lucy's Schoder in peanuts???






X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[Clocky]

On 23/08/2014 7:36 AM, news13 wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?

By loading the saved snapshot on booting.

Hibernate is just a shutdown but with a saved snapshot that is loaded on
boot.

There is no more power consumption when hibernating as there is when
shut down. In fact you can hibernate and unplug the PC, and the next
time you plug it in and boot it will boot to where you left of.

You are thinking of sleep mode which keeps systems like the RAM refreshed.

 

[Clocky]

On 23/08/2014 11:39 AM, Damian wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt8j82$c8p$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-08-21, news13 <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:47:19 +1000, Damian wrote:


my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power
for long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on the
PC,
right?

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Yeah, even shutdown draws power if plugged into the power.
We call is "stand by" don't we? There's no such thing as free lunch, I
reckon.

Yeah, but standby power is measured in milliwatts so unless you have a
mains switch on your PC like some PSU's have or you switch off at the
wall anything with a standby mode will consume some power.

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

Yep, that's what I was saying as well, at least for windows definition and
implementation of it.

Makes sense, hibernation is much deeper than a sleep after all...

If you want it to signal the PC to go into hibernation, then look for one
that will give a hibernation signal, followed by a shutdown if the UPS
battery drops significantly.

that's pointless and unneccessary.

Yep.

Absolutely.

 

[Clocky]

On 24/08/2014 7:45 AM, atec77 wrote:

On 23/08/2014 10:11 PM, Kiddie_Fiddler wrote:
On 28-Ju
so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that
some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on
the
net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of
design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)



It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

In Sealed(and non sealed) lead acid batteries, it's a mechanical valve.




Like a vacuum tube?

er no , think schroder valve

Our minister for misinformation and ignorance strikes again... it's a
Schrader valve and no, the venting system on batteries aren't Schrader
valves.

 

[Damian]

"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote in message
news:53f935ce$0$29878$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com...

On 23/08/2014 11:39 AM, Damian wrote:
"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt8j82$c8p$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-08-21, news13 <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:47:19 +1000, Damian wrote:


my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power
for long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on
the
PC,
right?

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Yeah, even shutdown draws power if plugged into the power.
We call is "stand by" don't we? There's no such thing as free lunch, I
reckon.


Yeah, but standby power is measured in milliwatts so unless you have a
mains switch on your PC like some PSU's have or you switch off at the wall
anything with a standby mode will consume some power.


Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

Yep, that's what I was saying as well, at least for windows definition
and
implementation of it.


Makes sense, hibernation is much deeper than a sleep after all...

Contradicts the biological definition of it, 'cos hibernation draws 'power'
in biological being at a minimum rate, like the arctic and brown bears.
I know, I'm confusing my own point here about windows, but that's tthe
truth.
I prefer the "suspend to disk" term, but that's obviously too long, and
Gates hijacked "hibernation" from bears.
He's gota history of prosituting terminology for his marketing purposes
anyway, it's nothing new.

If you want it to signal the PC to go into hibernation, then look for
one
that will give a hibernation signal, followed by a shutdown if the UPS
battery drops significantly.

that's pointless and unneccessary.

Yep.



Absolutely.

 

[Damian]

"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote in message
news:53f92f59$0$29888$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com...

On 23/08/2014 7:36 AM, news13 wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?


By loading the saved snapshot on booting.

Hibernate is just a shutdown but with a saved snapshot that is loaded on
boot.

There is no more power consumption when hibernating as there is when shut
down. In fact you can hibernate and unplug the PC, and the next time you
plug it in and boot it will boot to where you left of.

Yep, better explanation than mine.

You are thinking of sleep mode which keeps systems like the RAM refreshed.

He most certainly is.

 

[Damian]

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lta42r$t55$10@dont-email.me...

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 13:44:25 +1000, Damian wrote:

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lt8k6q$p38$1@dont-email.me...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw
as shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?

By loading the saved "snapshot". That doesn't need the PC connected to
the power source to keep that snapshot.

What starts the loading?

Saved startup files. Something closer to sys restore, I think. I'm not sure
about the details. Never bothered to get into, 'cos never needed, so far.

 

[Damian]

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt9rlf$k3m$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2014-08-23, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:lt8jlg$c8p$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-08-21, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.
Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings.

On windows, hibernation shouldn't draw any power. The snapshot is saved
to
the hard drive and loaded back when you restart.
You may be referrring to sleep mode, which consumes power in minimum
mode.

A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Pretty much all the UPS devices these days come with the software to
initiate safe shutdown or hibernation(or sleep).
Even they don't, there're always third party free and commercial
software.

Many will operate driverless, by providing what appears to the computer
as a "hibernate button" with a USB interface

Yes, but hibernation shouldn't draw any power in windows.
Kinda contradicts the common sense meaning of hibernation for sure, but
that's how Bill Gates saw it.

It makes sense to me, hibernation is a deeper sleep than normal sleep.

Bill Gates and microshit disagrees with you.

I don't really pay much attention to that. I figure give m$
terminology 20 years and if it's still in use then consider it,

I started calling directories folders earlier this year.

Well, when it come st UNIX and Linux, it's directories. When it comes to
Windows, it's 'folders'. Don't have a choice with that all the IT crap I get
to do at times.
What can we do? He(Gates) started setting tone in OS industry with his few
hundred million dollar marketing campaign with windows 95, gambled with that
and won.

umop apisdn

I didn't do it. That wasn't me!!! ;-)

tag lines leak occasionaly... this one tests UTF-8 support a bit.

Ąspu?? ou '?? ?oo?

I didn't do that either. I'm innocent! ;-)

 

[Damian]

Schrader valve and no, the venting system on batteries aren't Schrader
valves.

Yeah, I agree. typical schrader valve isn't suitable for the chemical
concoction inside the battery.
I haven't looked into it, 'cos I'm filtering the necessary knowledge these
days, so I can have some room left in my memory banks for more useful stuff
like names of the chicks I accidently bump into. ;-)

 

[Damian]

"Shed_Fiddler" <ob@wan_kenobee.com> wrote in message
news:GL-dnQPYQK5qGWXOnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

On 28-Jul-14 10:43 PM, Damian wrote:
"felix_unger" <me@nothere.biz> wrote in message
news:c3j3uvF2q3sU1@mid.individual.net...
On 27-July-2014 12:10 AM, Damian wrote:
"Bob Milutinovic" <cognicom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqiuaq$j1k$1@cognicom.eternal-september.org...
"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:MK6dnXema-h4U1HOnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:
On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:
the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement,
since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a
YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I
could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper,
but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a
necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do

so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that
some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the
net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of
design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)



It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

In Sealed(and non sealed) lead acid batteries, it's a mechanical valve.




Like a vacuum tube?

I don't thnk so. I know it's a mechanical type, reliable valve. I'm not sure
the detials of it.
AGM battery websites most certainly have the details.

 

[SG1]

"Jeßus" <none@all.org> wrote in message
news:boqiv9t8acudrrob18g43e9qo3n6tfvnjr@4ax.com...

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 08:53:09 +0800, Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:

On 24/08/2014 7:45 AM, atec77 wrote:
On 23/08/2014 10:11 PM, Kiddie_Fiddler wrote:
On 28-Ju

Like a vacuum tube?

er no , think schroder valve


Our minister for misinformation and ignorance strikes again... it's a
Schrader valve and no, the venting system on batteries aren't Schrader
valves.

Go easy on him... he's just a Brisbanite.

Is that in the same way folk from Paris are parasites???