bandwidth explosion

[bitrex]

On 7/19/19 7:42 PM, Joerg wrote:

Anyone who isn't also on the latest hardware and high-bandwidth (or at
least recent enough to run modern web sites with lots of scripting well)
probably isn't high enough income to be spending enough money on
advertiser's products to make it worthwhile the extra dev time to make
it a good experience for them.

There are a lot of fellow capitalists like me here in this NG I assumed
but often seem to misconstrue the thrust of it with respect to pandering
to the lowest common denominator of customer.

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives a fuck
what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget connection is or some
retiree's out in the boonies with a 10 year old PC and a 56k modem (lol)
or satellite internet "experience" is like on a modern web page it is
not worth anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last
time you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

The reality is that attitude loses companies sales.


Oh yeah.

Most people with substantial disposable income that I know live a rather
low-tech life. On purpose.

The eccentric sometimes make lousy clients, too, despite how much money
they might seem to have to "dispose" of in your direction on paper.

That is to say they too sometimes just don't wanna pay their bills on
time, or at all. common problem among clients of all income brackets

 

[bitrex]

On 7/19/19 8:10 PM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives a fuck
what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget connection is or some
retiree's out in the boonies with a 10 year old PC and a 56k modem (lol)
or satellite internet "experience" is like on a modern web page it is
not worth anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last
time you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

The reality is that attitude loses companies sales.


Oh yeah.

Most people with substantial disposable income that I know live a rather
low-tech life. On purpose.

Most sales are not sold to people with 'substantial disposable income'. Sales cover the whole gamut of incomes. And not everyone who can afford to chooses to throw money unnecessarily at things. The idea that if you can afford to you should spend more to get much the same seems to me quite stupid.


NT

I hear a company tried selling a quality product at a fair price based
on appeals to logic rather than emotion at one time. well I mean they
were a company, that is.

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 8:04:54 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, 19 July 2019 16:49:12 UTC+1, bitrex wrote:
On 7/19/19 4:32 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 19 July 2019 03:43:33 UTC+1, bitrex wrote:
On 7/18/19 4:15 PM, Rob wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.
It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".


Anyone who isn't also on the latest hardware and high-bandwidth (or at
least recent enough to run modern web sites with lots of scripting well)
probably isn't high enough income to be spending enough money on
advertiser's products to make it worthwhile the extra dev time to make
it a good experience for them.

There are a lot of fellow capitalists like me here in this NG I assumed
but often seem to misconstrue the thrust of it with respect to pandering
to the lowest common denominator of customer.

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives a fuck
what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget connection is or some
retiree's out in the boonies with a 10 year old PC and a 56k modem (lol)
or satellite internet "experience" is like on a modern web page it is
not worth anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last
time you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

The reality is that attitude loses companies sales.


NT


Nothing wrong with "losing sales", intrinsically.

it all depends. If I lost too many I wouldn't do ok. Losing a few's ok. But it's better to work constructively with people & end up with more. (Of course there are also some best got rid of.)

In the case of websites, _the majority_ of customers who want to buy something fail to follow the ordering process to the end. Sellers are making endless very basic mistakes. Such haemorrhaging of customers is idiocy.

A credit card company lost me today. Seems they now require almost as much ID as getting a drivers license. I tried to upload a number of files for them, but one or another would crap out. I was on the phone I don't know how long trying to get it all worked out, got the files to finally upload and while waiting for them to get an answer about the files I was cut off.

I already have two credit cards with this company. I was approved for the new card with better pay backs and they can't get me past the fraud department. Knowing your SSN, birthday, etc as well as knowing all the details about EXISTING accounts with the same company isn't enough any more to prove you aren't scamming them.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Michael Terrell]

On July 19, 2019 Joseph Gwinn wrote:

On July 18, 2019, Phil Hobbs wrote

I still have about 40 databooks, and I keep collecting them. When I was
working on the TAOS v. Intersil patent/trade secret case a few years
back, TAOS claimed that integrating for 100 ms was a trade secret
because it got rid of 50, 60, 100, and 120 Hz junk from lighting. I
scanned a few pages from my 1987 Intersil databook showing their
dual-slope ADCs doing the exact same thing.
Wow. I knew the 100 millisecond gate trick in the mid 1970s. I probably
learned it from a data sheet as well.

Hmm. I was not integrating, I was scanning a linear array of photo beams, and
the reason to scan at ten Hz was to make lighting interference (especially
from fluorescent lamps) stand still in the scans, and thus cancel out - we
were looking for changes in transmission over time. I think I got the idea
from the reasoning for the frame rate of NTSC TV, locked to 60 Hz so the hum
bars in the TV picture would stand still and thus not be noticed.

Joe Gwinn

Monochrome NTSC video used 30Hz but NTSC color used a 29.97Hz frame (59.94 Hz field) rate, with which you could see hum bars rolling through the image when the ripple from the power supply was too high.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/20/19 12:49 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth, the
output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a portable drill.

People think higher is better, so that's what the marketers give them.
Sometimes it has some real theoretical significance even if the user
won't notice the difference. Sometimes not.

It's all part of the standard ploy of deceiving the ignorant punter.

Sylvia.

or even the on paper not-so-ignorant when the advert specs for the
MOSFET tout the max dissipation with the junction at 175 C and the case
at 25 C

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:

At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth, the
output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a portable drill.

People think higher is better, so that's what the marketers give them.
Sometimes it has some real theoretical significance even if the user
won't notice the difference. Sometimes not.

It's all part of the standard ploy of deceiving the ignorant punter.

Sylvia.

 

On Saturday, 20 July 2019 05:19:46 UTC+1, bitrex wrote:

On 7/19/19 8:10 PM, tabbypurr wrote:

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives a fuck
what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget connection is or some
retiree's out in the boonies with a 10 year old PC and a 56k modem (lol)
or satellite internet "experience" is like on a modern web page it is
not worth anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last
time you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

The reality is that attitude loses companies sales.


Oh yeah.

Most people with substantial disposable income that I know live a rather
low-tech life. On purpose.

Most sales are not sold to people with 'substantial disposable income'. Sales cover the whole gamut of incomes. And not everyone who can afford to chooses to throw money unnecessarily at things. The idea that if you can afford to you should spend more to get much the same seems to me quite stupid.

I hear a company tried selling a quality product at a fair price based
on appeals to logic rather than emotion at one time. well I mean they
were a company, that is.

a different matter

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 20/07/2019 3:12 pm, bitrex wrote:

On 7/20/19 12:49 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth, the
output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a portable
drill.

People think higher is better, so that's what the marketers give them.
Sometimes it has some real theoretical significance even if the user
won't notice the difference. Sometimes not.

It's all part of the standard ploy of deceiving the ignorant punter.

Sylvia.

or even the on paper not-so-ignorant when the advert specs for the
MOSFET tout the max dissipation with the junction at 175 C and the case
at 25 C

Though I can't see the point of that, since if the part melts in the
prototype, the vendor won't see any more sales.

Sylvia.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Jul 2019 14:49:36 +1000) it happened Sylvia Else
<sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in <gpfkr2Fgv0jU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth, the
output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a portable drill.

People think higher is better,

But but the .01 % distortion audio amps were not selling as much as the 0.001 % distiortion ones...

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:23:55 -0700) it happened Joerg
<news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <gpf1nuFd8baU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-07-18 22:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:

But but, databooks are a fire hazard!
Laptops are good against mains interrupts, ...


Fire hazard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIB4UQ2oSJo

... for an hour or so at least,
I have a zillion pdf files on several PCs and laptops.
No more databooks, and everything is found via google.


Until the power goes down. When there is a wild fire it can do so for
several days in our area.

In that case I have a big 80 W solar panel here, and can switch to a lower power laptop than my Samsung.
But no power then you do not need datasheets anyways, as your design would not work.
Working late into the night with an oil lamp?

All those books, just got two 64 GB Samsung MUF-64AB USB very small USB sticks
All your datasheets everywhere where there is a computah, even a Raspberry Pi will do.
It will NOT catch fire by itself.
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/samsung-muf-64ab-usb-flash-drive-64-gb-usb-type-a-3-1-zwart-roestvrijstaal/9200000096115269/?s2a=#productTitle

If google ever goes down (or bing) then there really is a problem.


All it takes is the local power grid going down. Google will still work
hundreds of miles away but then you can't get there via Internet.
??

I have a 4G stick, now in a Raspberry Pi as gateway, plug it in the laptop
and am online again.
Depends a bit on 'local grid' I think in 'merrica with much over ground wire and transformers on poles
one bad bird is enough to short most of it
A different view on 'El Condor Pasa'.

I can get internet via satellite, I can even listen in on what others download,
but that usually works via some landline dial up to get the URL.
and the latency is very big.
When copying the sat downloads you have no choice in the content,
It all does not matter, have some transistors in stock and you can do anything.
Some PICs helps too.


And who needs 'tronics anyways, you need a bomb shelter and some survival training
and a .. oh well have not got the shelter yet...


I only need a wood-fired barbecue and home-brew.

So true, I have been in 'merrica camping living in a VW bus with some hippies.
camping by myself at the Canadian border in the wild,
Canada would not let me in, only had 15$ or so,
Mexican border, El Paso, arrested, ended up in a big cage jail with Mexican illegal immigrants
got out again after talking to the sheriff, man, tell me about 'merrica'.
Been all over that place in all sorts of societies, from the extremely rich to the very poor.
Broadens your horizons.
To live you do not need much.

If the greens get their way we will all be living in a grass hut eating mushrooms,
cooking on solar, come think of it I have some of those nice Fresnel lenses,
a fire maker, Oh well, I am prepared for trump's next booboo.



In Europe I'd be more concerned about Vladimir's booboos.

Russia paranoia, US creates an external enemy to unite its own people, a very old game,
If it works I doubt, with trump stirring up differences by telling children of immigrants to leave
while his own parent were immigrants themselves, and he is basically a criminal that lies his way,
his twitter is like Nero playing the fiddle watching Rome burn,
a sign on the wall the best times are over for that continent.

We, the EU, want better relations with Russia, and and end to any sanctions to Russia,
the CIA sponsored overturn of the legitimate Ukrainian government by a bunch of ultra right is more of a problem..
trump just a ruthless weapon salesman as far as I am concerned just a war criminal.
Putin is a very wise man and a good politician in my view.
trump a complete idiot.
I hope US people have still enough wisdom left to impeach him or vote him to oblivion in the next rigged elections.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 20/07/2019 5:29 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Jul 2019 14:49:36 +1000) it happened Sylvia Else
sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in <gpfkr2Fgv0jU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth, the
output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a portable drill.

People think higher is better,


But but the .01 % distortion audio amps were not selling as much as the 0.001 % distiortion ones...


Yes, I forgot the rule is inverted when a bad word follows.

For example "Now our bread contains less than 0.1% uranium hexafluoride."

Sylvia.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 4:24:47 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:

On 2019-07-18 06:38, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 06:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:42 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
lg00jeprk72prv8hnua08fhfh9q9rnek30@4ax.com>:

<snip>

For me it is the same with phone data. Reluctantly I now have a smart
phone but on the cheapest plan I could cobble together. Unlimited call,
500 texts, then a 30day pay-go 1GB data package. I need maybe 15-30mins
phone per month, 30-50 texts and last time I used a whopping 0.003GB of
the 1GB data package.

What I noted with all providers so far is that sometimes Youtube videos
completely stall out. Maybe they don't like Youtube because they want to
sell their own services.

I've had an Android smart-phone for a few years - I've now got a Samsung S4 which was cheap, rather than the ltest thing.

It came with a bunch of Google apps, and Google maps can be very handy from time to time.

It also came with Google Play, which I knew nothing about and never use. I suddenly got a whopping data bill after a month of so in the Netherlands mostly because Google play had downloaded 85 Mbytes of data over the mobile network.

I switched it to getting it's data only over WiFi links, but that was shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted. I was a bit peeeved to find that an app that I've never used had decided that it needed 85 MB of data in case I might decide to use it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney (but in Kuala Lumpur airport at the moment, waiting for the start of the second leg home to Sydney - only six hours to go).

 

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in
news:gpfkr2Fgv0jU1@mid.individual.net:

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed
testing about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates)
knocked on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster
internet and more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our
current price. They swapped out the modem today and the internet
here is now running about 450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep
leaving flyers on the doorknob offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone
fiber links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each
county around here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth,
the output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a
portable drill.

People think higher is better, so that's what the marketers give
them. Sometimes it has some real theoretical significance even if
the user won't notice the difference. Sometimes not.

It's all part of the standard ploy of deceiving the ignorant
punter.

Sylvia.

Look at the GPS accuracy levels when it entered the market.

At first all a consumer could get is maybe 10 yard diameter
resolution and don't even think about getting a reading indoors,
while the mil boys enjoyed full, 'current' accuracy.

Now, folks do not even think about it, they pop up their map app on
their 'smart' phone and their little blue blip pings their location
even if they are tooling down the street in a car.

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-07-20 02:49, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 4:24:47 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-07-18 06:38, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 06:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:42 -0700) it happened
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
lg00jeprk72prv8hnua08fhfh9q9rnek30@4ax.com>:

snip

For me it is the same with phone data. Reluctantly I now have a
smart phone but on the cheapest plan I could cobble together.
Unlimited call, 500 texts, then a 30day pay-go 1GB data package. I
need maybe 15-30mins phone per month, 30-50 texts and last time I
used a whopping 0.003GB of the 1GB data package.

What I noted with all providers so far is that sometimes Youtube
videos completely stall out. Maybe they don't like Youtube because
they want to sell their own services.

I've had an Android smart-phone for a few years - I've now got a
Samsung S4 which was cheap, rather than the ltest thing.

It came with a bunch of Google apps, and Google maps can be very
handy from time to time.

It also came with Google Play, which I knew nothing about and never
use.

It is the only place from where you can install apps on the phone. For
example for me, when I wanted a RPN calculator on it so I could leave
the HP-11C at home. There is a method to do it "from the side" but AFAIK
some stuff in the phone first needs to be hacked for that. Most apps are
only availbale via that "Play Store".

... I suddenly got a whopping data bill after a month of so in the
Netherlands mostly because Google play had downloaded 85 Mbytes of
data over the mobile network.

85MB result in a whopping bill? That must have been a stingy cell plan.
I pay $5 for a 1GB chunk of data (pay-as-you-go method).

I switched it to getting it's data only over WiFi links, but that was
shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted. I was a bit
peeeved to find that an app that I've never used had decided that it
needed 85 MB of data in case I might decide to use it.

I could have told you that as a newbie end of last year when getting my
first smart phone

The very first thing I did was turning off everything automatic. Then
toss all nagware and unwanted ballast just like one does after buying a
new PC. Updates only when on WiFi and so on. My typical data usage is
3-30MB per month. Out of 1GB which always expires in 30 days so 994MB or
more out of 1024MB expire unused.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-07-20 00:29, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:23:55 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gpf1nuFd8baU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-07-18 22:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:

[...]

... for an hour or so at least, I have a zillion pdf files on
several PCs and laptops. No more databooks, and everything is
found via google.


Until the power goes down. When there is a wild fire it can do so
for several days in our area.


In that case I have a big 80 W solar panel here, and can switch to a
lower power laptop than my Samsung.

When there is a wildfire the sky is gray, no solar power.

... But no power then you do not need
datasheets anyways, as your design would not work. ...

Huh? I can design anywhere and often did, way out in nature on a lonely
bush trail. No cell coverage or anything. Those are my most productiev
places. The only noise you can hear is wind, birds, some wildlife and
the occasional jetliner high up there. Those designs tend to work well.

... Working late into the night with an oil lamp?

We got modern, LED lamp

I keep a big Lead-acid battery charged in the garage just in case. Plus
a little inverter if we absolutely have to runs some AC stuff briefly.
Like the margarita mixer ...

All those books, just got two 64 GB Samsung MUF-64AB USB very small
USB sticks All your datasheets everywhere where there is a computah,
even a Raspberry Pi will do. It will NOT catch fire by itself.
https://www.bol.com/nl/p/samsung-muf-64ab-usb-flash-drive-64-gb-usb-type-a-3-1-zwart-roestvrijstaal/9200000096115269/?s2a=#productTitle

Certainly a good way but I can't bring myself to spend days and days of
scanning books which refuse to lay flat on the scanner glass. I ratehr
go on bike rides.

If google ever goes down (or bing) then there really is a
problem.


All it takes is the local power grid going down. Google will still
work hundreds of miles away but then you can't get there via
Internet.
??

I have a 4G stick, now in a Raspberry Pi as gateway, plug it in the
laptop and am online again. Depends a bit on 'local grid' I think in
'merrica with much over ground wire and transformers on poles one bad
bird is enough to short most of it A different view on 'El Condor
Pasa'.

Yeah, much of our power grid is like that in Romania. A sorry state of
affairs. Similar for roads in leftists states such as California. The
usual, high taxes - bad infrastructure.

I can get internet via satellite, I can even listen in on what
others download, but that usually works via some landline dial up
to get the URL. and the latency is very big. When copying the sat
downloads you have no choice in the content, It all does not
matter, have some transistors in stock and you can do anything.
Some PICs helps too.

And who needs 'tronics anyways, you need a bomb shelter and some
survival training and a .. oh well have not got the shelter
yet...


I only need a wood-fired barbecue and home-brew.

So true, I have been in 'merrica camping living in a VW bus with some
hippies. camping by myself at the Canadian border in the wild, Canada
would not let me in, only had 15$ or so, Mexican border, El Paso,
arrested, ended up in a big cage jail with Mexican illegal
immigrants got out again after talking to the sheriff, man, tell me
about 'merrica'. Been all over that place in all sorts of societies,
from the extremely rich to the very poor. Broadens your horizons. To
live you do not need much.

A (US) co-worker was arrested in the Netherlands in the 90's. After they
let him go we asked him about that experience. "Oh, no complaints, it
was relaxing. No phone calls, no telefaxes, no meetings, no stress. They
had good food and, best of all, color TV in all the cells! I just
couldn't understand much".

If the greens get their way we will all be living in a grass hut
eating mushrooms, cooking on solar, come think of it I have some
of those nice Fresnel lenses, a fire maker, Oh well, I am
prepared for trump's next booboo.


In Europe I'd be more concerned about Vladimir's booboos.

Russia paranoia, US creates an external enemy to unite its own
people, a very old game, ...

So when will we have the next Chernobyl?

... If it works I doubt, with trump stirring up
differences by telling children of immigrants to leave while his own
parent were immigrants themselves, ...

They were legal immigrant. Big difference.

[...]

We, the EU, want better relations with Russia, and and end to any
sanctions to Russia, the CIA sponsored overturn of the legitimate
Ukrainian government by a bunch of ultra right is more of a
problem.. trump just a ruthless weapon salesman as far as I am
concerned just a war criminal. Putin is a very wise man and a good
politician in my view. trump a complete idiot. I hope US people have
still enough wisdom left to impeach him or vote him to oblivion in
the next rigged elections.

Wait until they threaten to turn off the "cheap" gas during a harsh
winter. But not my problem, I am not a European anymore.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-07-19 17:10, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 20 July 2019 00:42:14 UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-07-19 01:32, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 19 July 2019 03:43:33 UTC+1, bitrex wrote:
On 7/18/19 4:15 PM, Rob wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The
backbone fiber links must be moving astronomical amounts of
data. Each county around here might need a petabit per
second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the
bandwidth. Developers often get the fastest hardware and
fastest connection, and develop bloated websites with lots of
images (static and moving), tons of scripting to do some
simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit
some websites. It was not a pleasant experience. My
connection is 100Mbit/s and that appears to be enough for
now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when everyone else
has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have
"endless scrolling".


Anyone who isn't also on the latest hardware and high-bandwidth
(or at least recent enough to run modern web sites with lots of
scripting well) probably isn't high enough income to be
spending enough money on advertiser's products to make it
worthwhile the extra dev time to make it a good experience for
them.

There are a lot of fellow capitalists like me here in this NG I
assumed but often seem to misconstrue the thrust of it with
respect to pandering to the lowest common denominator of
customer.

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives
a fuck what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget
connection is or some retiree's out in the boonies with a 10
year old PC and a 56k modem (lol) or satellite internet
"experience" is like on a modern web page it is not worth
anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last time
you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

The reality is that attitude loses companies sales.


Oh yeah.

Most people with substantial disposable income that I know live a
rather low-tech life. On purpose.

Most sales are not sold to people with 'substantial disposable
income'. ...

In terms of profit it is.

... Sales cover the whole gamut of incomes. And not everyone who
can afford to chooses to throw money unnecessarily at things. ...

Correct. Frugality is usually how they got to the point of having a nice
disposable income or savings.

... The
idea that if you can afford to you should spend more to get much the
same seems to me quite stupid.

Works differently. People who can afford it splurge on things they
really enjoy. They don't get the same, they get better. Nice cars, maybe
an aircraft, a boat, a big RV, travel, good hotels, and most of all good
food. $10 for a small slice of Brie at the market? WHAT?! But we like it
so let's buy a few anyhow.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Saturday, 20 July 2019 15:46:31 UTC+1, Joerg wrote:

On 2019-07-19 17:10, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 20 July 2019 00:42:14 UTC+1, Joerg wrote:

Most people with substantial disposable income that I know live a
rather low-tech life. On purpose.

Most sales are not sold to people with 'substantial disposable
income'. ...


In terms of profit it is.

I don't have the figures. But fwiw when I look at the most profitable companies I typically see them cater to people across most of the spectrum, if not all.

... Sales cover the whole gamut of incomes. And not everyone who
can afford to chooses to throw money unnecessarily at things. ...


Correct. Frugality is usually how they got to the point of having a nice
disposable income or savings.


... The
idea that if you can afford to you should spend more to get much the
same seems to me quite stupid.


Works differently. People who can afford it splurge on things they
really enjoy. They don't get the same, they get better. Nice cars, maybe
an aircraft, a boat, a big RV, travel, good hotels, and most of all good
food. $10 for a small slice of Brie at the market? WHAT?! But we like it
so let's buy a few anyhow.

I'm not sure I can think of much in life I enjoy that I'd need to splurge on to enjoy more. Life just isn't like that IME. I guess some people like to improve their lot, some like to pee it up the wall. Perhaps I belong to a different era.


NT

 

[bitrex]

On 7/20/19 3:29 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Jul 2019 14:49:36 +1000) it happened Sylvia Else
sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in <gpfkr2Fgv0jU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth, the
output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a portable drill.

People think higher is better,


But but the .01 % distortion audio amps were not selling as much as the 0.001 % distiortion ones...

the difference between whether a very low distortion, high open loop
gain, high-NFB solid state amp or a low or no feedback amplifier sounds
"good" is probably one of psycho-acoustics.

I grew up listening to the former kind and some of those low NFB tube
amps people rave about don't sound that great to me. they don't sound
"tight" they sound "wolly" or "flubby" (technical terms) I'd probably
start to like 'em if I listened long enough, though.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Jul 2019 07:40:22 -0700) it happened Joerg
<news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <gpgne7Fo3qhU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-07-20 00:29, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:23:55 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gpf1nuFd8baU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-07-18 22:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:


[...]

... for an hour or so at least, I have a zillion pdf files on
several PCs and laptops. No more databooks, and everything is
found via google.


Until the power goes down. When there is a wild fire it can do so
for several days in our area.


In that case I have a big 80 W solar panel here, and can switch to a
lower power laptop than my Samsung.


When there is a wildfire the sky is gray, no solar power.

Lipos, lots of lipos here, and li-ion of course.


Maybe I should finally stock up on some big lifepo4 cells,

... But no power then you do not need
datasheets anyways, as your design would not work. ...


Huh? I can design anywhere and often did, way out in nature on a lonely
bush trail.

So you do not use Spice either ?

No cell coverage or anything. Those are my most productiev
places. The only noise you can hear is wind, birds, some wildlife and
the occasional jetliner high up there. Those designs tend to work well.


... Working late into the night with an oil lamp?


We got modern, LED lamp

Aha, very good, I have 12V RGB LED strips in the living room,
designed a controller for that.
And a nice USB LED reading light.

I keep a big Lead-acid battery charged in the garage just in case. Plus
a little inverter if we absolutely have to runs some AC stuff briefly.
Like the margarita mixer ...

Lead acid, I have one gone bad here, gotta bring it to the chemical disposal site some day.
it contains LEAD you know DANGEROUS can kill you by looking at it :-(

All those books, just got two 64 GB Samsung MUF-64AB USB very small
USB sticks All your datasheets everywhere where there is a computah,
even a Raspberry Pi will do. It will NOT catch fire by itself.

https://www.bol.com/nl/p/samsung-muf-64ab-usb-flash-drive-64-gb-usb-type-a-3-1-zwart-roestvrijstaal/9200000096115269/?s2a=#productTitle


Certainly a good way but I can't bring myself to spend days and days of
scanning books which refuse to lay flat on the scanner glass. I ratehr
go on bike rides.


If google ever goes down (or bing) then there really is a
problem.


All it takes is the local power grid going down. Google will still
work hundreds of miles away but then you can't get there via
Internet.
??

I have a 4G stick, now in a Raspberry Pi as gateway, plug it in the
laptop and am online again. Depends a bit on 'local grid' I think in
'merrica with much over ground wire and transformers on poles one bad
bird is enough to short most of it A different view on 'El Condor
Pasa'.


Yeah, much of our power grid is like that in Romania. A sorry state of
affairs. Similar for roads in leftists states such as California. The
usual, high taxes - bad infrastructure.


I can get internet via satellite, I can even listen in on what
others download, but that usually works via some landline dial up
to get the URL. and the latency is very big. When copying the sat
downloads you have no choice in the content, It all does not
matter, have some transistors in stock and you can do anything.
Some PICs helps too.

And who needs 'tronics anyways, you need a bomb shelter and some
survival training and a .. oh well have not got the shelter
yet...


I only need a wood-fired barbecue and home-brew.

So true, I have been in 'merrica camping living in a VW bus with some
hippies. camping by myself at the Canadian border in the wild, Canada
would not let me in, only had 15$ or so, Mexican border, El Paso,
arrested, ended up in a big cage jail with Mexican illegal
immigrants got out again after talking to the sheriff, man, tell me
about 'merrica'. Been all over that place in all sorts of societies,
from the extremely rich to the very poor. Broadens your horizons. To
live you do not need much.


A (US) co-worker was arrested in the Netherlands in the 90's. After they
let him go we asked him about that experience. "Oh, no complaints, it
was relaxing. No phone calls, no telefaxes, no meetings, no stress. They
had good food and, best of all, color TV in all the cells! I just
couldn't understand much".

Yes, it s like that sometimes, have not been in jail here (yet?)
but I did see that mentioned in the papers.

If the greens get their way we will all be living in a grass hut
eating mushrooms, cooking on solar, come think of it I have some
of those nice Fresnel lenses, a fire maker, Oh well, I am
prepared for trump's next booboo.


In Europe I'd be more concerned about Vladimir's booboos.

Russia paranoia, US creates an external enemy to unite its own
people, a very old game, ...


So when will we have the next Chernobyl?

That was in F*ckupshima IIRC.

... If it works I doubt, with trump stirring up
differences by telling children of immigrants to leave while his own
parent were immigrants themselves, ...


They were legal immigrant. Big difference.

They were fugitives from Germany I think.
Considering how trump behaves he is a disgrace.
Most illegal immigrants just want a better life they will keep a low key
and will avoid getting into trouble been arrested by the police and being deported.
There are always exceptions, but there is no shortage of 'merrycans in the jails there.

We, the EU, want better relations with Russia, and and end to any
sanctions to Russia, the CIA sponsored overturn of the legitimate
Ukrainian government by a bunch of ultra right is more of a
problem.. trump just a ruthless weapon salesman as far as I am
concerned just a war criminal. Putin is a very wise man and a good
politician in my view. trump a complete idiot. I hope US people have
still enough wisdom left to impeach him or vote him to oblivion in
the next rigged elections.


Wait until they threaten to turn off the "cheap" gas during a harsh
winter. But not my problem, I am not a European anymore.

That is trumps style, We have not seen anything like that from Russia here.
US gas is of less quality and trump will do all sort of nasty things to sabotage us buying Russian gas.
He now is putting fines on Airbus. because? Boeing is not doing so well,
Air France KLM is just about to order a huge amount of Airbus planes.

Netherlands is decreasing drilling for gas in Groningen because the drilling caused earthquakes that resulted in a lot damage,
so we export less.
It is all in flux, new wind parks in the North Sea, they want everybody to move to electrickety it seems.
We need to diversify our energy sources, but greens are clueless and are in large numbers.
But wait till they get cold feet, they will be FIRST to use nuclear and coal.

German export is badly hit by the sanctions against Russia,
Big thunderstorm here now, going offline with some sensitive stuff now, will post this later.

 

On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 10:20:59 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, July 20, 2019 at 8:43:14 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in
news:gpfkr2Fgv0jU1@mid.individual.net:

On 18/07/2019 3:44 pm, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed
testing about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates)
knocked on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster
internet and more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our
current price. They swapped out the modem today and the internet
here is now running about 450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep
leaving flyers on the doorknob offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone
fiber links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each
county around here might need a petabit per second.



Marketing numbers has always been a thing, whether it's bandwidth,
the output torque of a car engine, or the battery voltage on a
portable drill.

People think higher is better, so that's what the marketers give
them. Sometimes it has some real theoretical significance even if
the user won't notice the difference. Sometimes not.

It's all part of the standard ploy of deceiving the ignorant
punter.

Sylvia.


Look at the GPS accuracy levels when it entered the market.

At first all a consumer could get is maybe 10 yard diameter
resolution and don't even think about getting a reading indoors,
while the mil boys enjoyed full, 'current' accuracy.

Now, folks do not even think about it, they pop up their map app on
their 'smart' phone and their little blue blip pings their location
even if they are tooling down the street in a car.

A lot of that is improvements in the receiver sensitivity and throwing more hardware at the problem to facilitate reception.

Then there was the addition of WAAS which can bring the location error to as low as 10 feet with a bit of averaging. BTW, before all this the error was a lot more than 30 feet. I recall plotting the location of a stationary receiver and seeing it wander nearly 100 feet from the starting reported location overnight.

Selective availability (SA) or deliberate jamming a few decades ago.

>It's still not accurate enough to tell you which lane your car is in. At least, not with a reasonable level of certainty.