bandwidth explosion

[Rick C]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:10:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 18 Jul 2019 07:17:40 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
miv0je539gupbbqf5dt6n7fjrgjc0jrbmt@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 14:55:11 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/07/19 14:38, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 06:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
What do people do that takes so much bandwidth? Upgrade MS windows???

Most people won't actually use that bandwidth. Web browsing needs
short bursts. Even movies don't need 500 mbits. So averaged rates
across multiple households will be much lower. But the backbone rates
must still be amazing.

And frequently latency is more important than bandwidth.

High (average) bandwidth with high latency means there
are many bits in the pipe - and those will be wasted
when re-transmission occurs.

Also, many web transactions are small, to get advertising
cookies, and to enable a real-time auction of your eyeballs.

(And then there are the gamers...)

Going from, say, 30 mb to several hundred makes a nice difference when
browsing. It's shocking to me that I can fill a screen with stuff from
France in about a second.

I load a lot of pdf's too, and they are dramatically faster now.


Sure,
I downloaded (via 4G modem) a complete Linux based distro this week (xinutop),
took a few minutes.
Surprised me, and at least on my PC I can download that in the background if I like,
got latest Debian too that way last month..
Speed is not so important for that.


I wish I knew how the Internet actually works. Apparently not many
people really do.

I figured that out when I was having the servers at home..
It is actually simple, name servers are like a phonebook lookup for the IP number.
Some things are encrypted these days but for the rest the principle is the same as any LAN.
To navigate and see what's happening you need to know a few Linux commands,
like for example:
whois
host
traceroute
ping
etc etc
And run some network monitor, I use 'snort'.
Firewalls, Linux has iptables for that.
Know about ports,
and the most important tool in Linux: netcat
Really netcat is the coolest thing I have.
It makes it so easy to set up a link to anywhere in the world with TCP or UDP,
just from the command line or from a script.
man netcat.
Probably forgot some other stuff, but it is simple.

There must be millions of miles of multi-gigabit fibers all over the
world and under the oceans. Gigantic switching and routing centers
somewhere. I don't think it's simple.

I've been told that roughly a dozen people really understand the
system, and that I've met one of them. Nice guy, but he doesn't talk
about what he really does.

Yeah, if you assume you are right and there is no way to indicate you are wrong, then I guess you are right.

I submit suggesting there are only a dozen people in the world that "understand" the world wide web is absurd. I suppose they are not allowed to be on the same plane or even in the same building at the same time?

But then this is the guy who says there must be intelligent creation "because"...

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jon Elson]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Boy, wish that were happening here! We have only ONE provider that can
work at my house. We used to have DSL, but the lines were so bad they
had to run pairs all over the city, and we are now 18K feet from the CO.
The RTs apparently do not have DSLAMs in them.

So, Charter cable is the ONLY choice except satellite. We get 100/4
service on a grandfathered plan. They want to almost double the price to
go to 100/10. This is a business account, so they charge a bunch extra,
although we really are not using much more bandwidth than a typical home
with a couple kids.

I keep hoping, SOMEDAY, that AT&T will run fiber out here.

Jon

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:56:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<j851jelorcg19inch6kdk5jm519qjm8543@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:10:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 18 Jul 2019 07:17:40 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
miv0je539gupbbqf5dt6n7fjrgjc0jrbmt@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 14:55:11 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/07/19 14:38, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 06:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
What do people do that takes so much bandwidth? Upgrade MS windows???

Most people won't actually use that bandwidth. Web browsing needs
short bursts. Even movies don't need 500 mbits. So averaged rates
across multiple households will be much lower. But the backbone rates
must still be amazing.

And frequently latency is more important than bandwidth.

High (average) bandwidth with high latency means there
are many bits in the pipe - and those will be wasted
when re-transmission occurs.

Also, many web transactions are small, to get advertising
cookies, and to enable a real-time auction of your eyeballs.

(And then there are the gamers...)

Going from, say, 30 mb to several hundred makes a nice difference when
browsing. It's shocking to me that I can fill a screen with stuff from
France in about a second.

I load a lot of pdf's too, and they are dramatically faster now.


Sure,
I downloaded (via 4G modem) a complete Linux based distro this week (xinutop),
took a few minutes.
Surprised me, and at least on my PC I can download that in the background if I like,
got latest Debian too that way last month..
Speed is not so important for that.


I wish I knew how the Internet actually works. Apparently not many
people really do.

I figured that out when I was having the servers at home..
It is actually simple, name servers are like a phonebook lookup for the IP number.
Some things are encrypted these days but for the rest the principle is the same as any LAN.
To navigate and see what's happening you need to know a few Linux commands,
like for example:
whois
host
traceroute
ping
etc etc
And run some network monitor, I use 'snort'.
Firewalls, Linux has iptables for that.
Know about ports,
and the most important tool in Linux: netcat
Really netcat is the coolest thing I have.
It makes it so easy to set up a link to anywhere in the world with TCP or UDP,
just from the command line or from a script.
man netcat.
Probably forgot some other stuff, but it is simple.

There must be millions of miles of multi-gigabit fibers all over the
world and under the oceans. Gigantic switching and routing centers
somewhere. I don't think it's simple.

I've been told that roughly a dozen people really understand the
system, and that I've met one of them. Nice guy, but he doesn't talk
about what he really does.

Na, the only slightly more complictiatiated part is the NSA listening stations at the end
of the intercontinental fibers, one in the UK of course

It is just CABLES man.

NSA reads and stores everything I write, just image what a nice backup,
wonder if I can restore from them...

Come to think of that, Netherlands just increased their F35 order,
to please the trump I think,
much easier with so many around to test my F35 detection system.

For the same reason they no longer sell F35s to Turkey (not the bird).
You gotta give it to Erdogan, he buys Russian S400 missiles,
and US no longer wants him to have that F35 crap.
A win win situation for him.

We should have done the same and buy some Migs too.
My view.

Some guy was spraying the road here with some weed killer this afternoon,
the wind took the poison and it is now in the curtains, I thought
'Oops they finally tracked me down' but he was spraying next doors too,
could be a cover up though.

Man, what a world <censored>

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:31:32 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <E91YE.257299$rc5.24124@fx18.am4>:

On 18/07/19 16:10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
What I do not like is all that Java crap in browsers, THAT makes things unneeded complex
and slow.
cookies crap...
I use an ad blocker, some sites stop you and want it disabled, too bad I just go elsewhere.
Freedom.

There is very little Java in browser nowadays.

There is a lot of JavaScript, but that is very
/very/ different.

The two languages have completely different paradigms
and objectives; the only thing they have in common is
some syntax (which is irrelevant) and part of their name.

Yes, it is worth running adblockers and NoScript - but
note the *Script*.

OK, thanks
Clearly I am no java expert, scripts or whatever,
I wrote a few lines to get some buttons and an input field in some server I wrote.
script that is
I did not know about NoScript, just looking at their website.
https://noscript.net/getit

OTOH been on the web since 1997 ? Win 3.1 Trumpet winsock running on Dr Dos.
Never was hacked,
(that I know about).
Running Linux now since 1998, it is a lot safer than MS widows it seems.
Few month ago I ran a raspberry server as test and published the fixed IP
I had back then on the raspberry newsgroup.
Every few minutes some attack.
Some from China, but interesting: much more from Africa,
finally killed all of Africa in the iptables firewall.

This program logs origins and adds it to the apache log:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#ip_to_country
it can also start scripts that automatically block IPs if they try something funny.

Now I have a dynamic IP, so no server running here, nice and quiet,
saves a lot of time,
Website via godaddy, let them do the work.

Around 2000 and later my website was hosted by me, servers here,
so quite a bit of experience running websites.
There is no need for all those funny java scripts in 99% of the cases,
My website does not have a single one and everything works, all basic html.

And always use brain when surfing

Your computer is hijacked now, pay of the US national debt to decrypt your harddisk.
pmurt

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-07-18 10:19, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:10:50 -0500, Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net
wrote:

On 7/18/2019 12:44 AM, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.


I keep getting offers of gigabit ethernet from my cable
provider. I am currently getting about 47 megabit downloads.
I can't imagine what I would need anything faster than that for.
If I had a large family and every individual was streaming
a different program I might be able to use most of it,
but there really aren't that many people that could use it
all.

Bill

Datasheet PDFs are usually below 1 mbyte, so load fast. 50 real
megabits is about all anyone really needs.

Remember data books? When we moved the company about 12 years ago, we
filled a dumpster with data books.

There are a few, especially application data books, that I will never
part with. Not all of the stuff has made it into a digital archive and
if I don't scan it in beforehand (a lot of work), it's gone.

Also, California now has the electrical grid reliability of Romania but,
of course, at x times the cost. Like we did when Gray Davis was governor
and we had the dreaded rolling "gray-outs". When the electricity goes
kerklunk it is very nice to have data books with at least the basic
stuff in there. So after PG&E announced that their "solution" to fire
safety is to simply shut whole areas off for several days I vowed not to
throw any more data books into paper recycling.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-07-18 13:15, Rob wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.

Where I lived 25 years ago that would have been blazingly fast. 9600bd
was the max and sometimes that would ratchet down to 4800db.

It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".

Nowadays you need 2GB of RAM to write "Hello World". Minimum.

When I moved my first laptop over to Linux and things become sticky
folks in a Linux NG told me that its 1GB RAM is inadequate. It wasn't
with Windows but I guess with Windows 10 it would be the same kind of bloat.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 2:36:06 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:


Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Boy, wish that were happening here! We have only ONE provider that can
work at my house. We used to have DSL, but the lines were so bad they
had to run pairs all over the city, and we are now 18K feet from the CO.
The RTs apparently do not have DSLAMs in them.

So, Charter cable is the ONLY choice except satellite. We get 100/4
service on a grandfathered plan. They want to almost double the price to
go to 100/10. This is a business account, so they charge a bunch extra,
although we really are not using much more bandwidth than a typical home
with a couple kids.

I keep hoping, SOMEDAY, that AT&T will run fiber out here.

Jon

I've only got satellite at my house. It has gotten better in the past
few years... It use to be that once you used up your allotted giga bits
you were slowed way down. But a competitor entered the market with a
guaranteed minimum speed, and my provider had to follow along... or get
left in the dust.

George H.

 

[Rob]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

I wish I knew how the Internet actually works. Apparently not many
people really do.

Packet switching. All that flows over the internet is split into
"IP packets" which are blocks of data like 1500 bytes, which have
a header with source and destination address (the "IP address").

You send it on its way, and every time it encounters a router with
multiple connections the destination address is examined and it is
sent to the output which is leading closer to the destination, using
what is called a "routing table".

It is not unlike a postman that examines a letter and puts it in
some basket that will be delivered closer to the destination until
it finally reaches the destination mailbox.

The only thing advanced about it is the speed at which those routers
and connections operate, the mechanism itself is quite dumb (and fragile!).

 

[Rob]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.
It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".

 

[Rob]

Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

On 2019-07-18 13:15, Rob wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.


Where I lived 25 years ago that would have been blazingly fast. 9600bd
was the max and sometimes that would ratchet down to 4800db.

Yes, I have used speeds like that too. But 56k would seem to be a
reasonable thing to try, yet it is mostly unusable (for websites, not
for usenet of course).

It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".


Nowadays you need 2GB of RAM to write "Hello World". Minimum.

When I moved my first laptop over to Linux and things become sticky
folks in a Linux NG told me that its 1GB RAM is inadequate. It wasn't
with Windows but I guess with Windows 10 it would be the same kind of bloat.

My first Linux system 26 years ago had only 16MB of RAM. MB. It had
a graphical desktop, webbrowser (NCSA Mosaic) and once I got an internet
connection (like 1994) I could actually use that with a telephone modem.
Of course that always was sluggish, but the sites matched the available
bandwith. Not anymore.

And of course, no need to point at the computing power used to go to
the moon, these days.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:36:48 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

On 2019-07-18 13:15, Rob wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.


Where I lived 25 years ago that would have been blazingly fast. 9600bd
was the max and sometimes that would ratchet down to 4800db.


It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".


Nowadays you need 2GB of RAM to write "Hello World". Minimum.

When I moved my first laptop over to Linux and things become sticky
folks in a Linux NG told me that its 1GB RAM is inadequate. It wasn't
with Windows but I guess with Windows 10 it would be the same kind of bloat.

I used to design modems, for SCADA systems over leased lines. I think
I did one at 75 baud. 300 was common.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 4:22:54 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 2:36:06 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:


Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Boy, wish that were happening here! We have only ONE provider that can
work at my house. We used to have DSL, but the lines were so bad they
had to run pairs all over the city, and we are now 18K feet from the CO.
The RTs apparently do not have DSLAMs in them.

So, Charter cable is the ONLY choice except satellite. We get 100/4
service on a grandfathered plan. They want to almost double the price to
go to 100/10. This is a business account, so they charge a bunch extra,
although we really are not using much more bandwidth than a typical home
with a couple kids.

I keep hoping, SOMEDAY, that AT&T will run fiber out here.

Jon
I've only got satellite at my house. It has gotten better in the past
few years... It use to be that once you used up your allotted giga bits
you were slowed way down. But a competitor entered the market with a
guaranteed minimum speed, and my provider had to follow along... or get
left in the dust.

George H.

What's the minimum speed?

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 4:21:33 PM UTC-4, Rob wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
I wish I knew how the Internet actually works. Apparently not many
people really do.

Packet switching. All that flows over the internet is split into
"IP packets" which are blocks of data like 1500 bytes, which have
a header with source and destination address (the "IP address").

You send it on its way, and every time it encounters a router with
multiple connections the destination address is examined and it is
sent to the output which is leading closer to the destination, using
what is called a "routing table".

It is not unlike a postman that examines a letter and puts it in
some basket that will be delivered closer to the destination until
it finally reaches the destination mailbox.

The only thing advanced about it is the speed at which those routers
and connections operate, the mechanism itself is quite dumb (and fragile!).

John may be talking about all the custom tweaks inside the routers that make them work well when simply implementing the various standards would not do such a great job.

There seems to be the idea that it will be "best" to let the Internet develop completely without interference from the government. In some ways this is true. But the IP network is not entirely different from our road system.. Sometimes we allow privateering on roads and end up having to pay tolls for the rest of time. Meanwhile the other roads are no more pot hole free. I think unrestricted development of the Internet will also result in many undesirable features. With such a highly technical system, there will be many ways to use it to pull money out of our pockets.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-07-18 15:21, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:36:48 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com
wrote:

[...]

It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".


Nowadays you need 2GB of RAM to write "Hello World". Minimum.

When I moved my first laptop over to Linux and things become sticky
folks in a Linux NG told me that its 1GB RAM is inadequate. It wasn't
with Windows but I guess with Windows 10 it would be the same kind of bloat.


I used to design modems, for SCADA systems over leased lines. I think
I did one at 75 baud. 300 was common.

At one client we are actually going back towards those speeds, long RF
range at very low power levels, unattended motes way out there in the field.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 1:44:51 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Must be using quantum entanglement.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 1:44:51 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

The City of Ocala installed a private fiber optic system in the business district a few years ago, to proved the merchants and manufacturers 1Gb/s service. It stops a few miles from me, but a local drive in has two, 1Gb/s feeds as backups for their new high res LCD projectors. Movies are delivered in sealed digital packaging that plugs into their projector, but they can stream the movie live if the digital storage system crashes. They have replaced the original film projector with four digital projectors They have two large screens, and two smaller screens.

Freinds own a company that manufactures heavy duty canopies for art shows. They have 1Gb/s service in their facility.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 7/18/19 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:10:50 -0500, Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net
wrote:

On 7/18/2019 12:44 AM, John Larkin wrote:


At work, we signed up with MonkeyBrains for microwave internet
service. We ordered the 50+50 mbit plan. It's actually speed testing
about 350+350.

And at home, a guy from Comcast (our local cable TV pirates) knocked
on the door and proposed to upgrade us for free, faster internet and
more cable TV (including HBO) for about half our current price. They
swapped out the modem today and the internet here is now running about
450+50 mbits. AT&T and Sonic keep leaving flyers on the doorknob
offering us a gigabit.

Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.


I keep getting offers of gigabit ethernet from my cable
provider. I am currently getting about 47 megabit downloads.
I can't imagine what I would need anything faster than that for.
If I had a large family and every individual was streaming
a different program I might be able to use most of it,
but there really aren't that many people that could use it
all.

Bill

Datasheet PDFs are usually below 1 mbyte, so load fast. 50 real
megabits is about all anyone really needs.

Remember data books? When we moved the company about 12 years ago, we
filled a dumpster with data books.

I still have about 40 databooks, and I keep collecting them. When I was
working on the TAOS v. Intersil patent/trade secret case a few years
back, TAOS claimed that integrating for 100 ms was a trade secret
because it got rid of 50, 60, 100, and 120 Hz junk from lighting. I
scanned a few pages from my 1987 Intersil databook showing their
dual-slope ADCs doing the exact same thing.

A bunch of opto databooks have come in handy the same way.

And when I'm doing dead-bug protos, a lot of the chips are old enough to
be in the databooks.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[bitrex]

On 7/18/19 2:35 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:44:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:


Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Boy, wish that were happening here! We have only ONE provider that can
work at my house. We used to have DSL, but the lines were so bad they
had to run pairs all over the city, and we are now 18K feet from the CO.
The RTs apparently do not have DSLAMs in them.

So, Charter cable is the ONLY choice except satellite. We get 100/4
service on a grandfathered plan. They want to almost double the price to
go to 100/10. This is a business account, so they charge a bunch extra,
although we really are not using much more bandwidth than a typical home
with a couple kids.

I keep hoping, SOMEDAY, that AT&T will run fiber out here.

Jon

Fiber-to-the-premesis for residential customers is a more-or-less dead
technology last I heard, the telcos are looking towards WiMax and
ever-faster cellular data networks as the alternative.

 

[bitrex]

On 7/18/19 4:15 PM, Rob wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure. And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.
It was not a pleasant experience. My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s. And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless scrolling".

Anyone who isn't also on the latest hardware and high-bandwidth (or at
least recent enough to run modern web sites with lots of scripting well)
probably isn't high enough income to be spending enough money on
advertiser's products to make it worthwhile the extra dev time to make
it a good experience for them.

There are a lot of fellow capitalists like me here in this NG I assumed
but often seem to misconstrue the thrust of it with respect to pandering
to the lowest common denominator of customer.

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives a fuck
what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget connection is or some
retiree's out in the boonies with a 10 year old PC and a 56k modem (lol)
or satellite internet "experience" is like on a modern web page it is
not worth anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last
time you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

 

[bitrex]

On 7/18/19 10:43 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/18/19 4:15 PM, Rob wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Sounds like mad competition to give away bandwidth. The backbone fiber
links must be moving astronomical amounts of data. Each county around
here might need a petabit per second.

Sure.  And unfortunately it hampers those that don't have the bandwidth.
Developers often get the fastest hardware and fastest connection, and
develop bloated websites with lots of images (static and moving), tons
of scripting to do some simple thing, etc.

Some time ago I tried connecting using 56k modem and visit some websites.
It was not a pleasant experience.  My connection is 100Mbit/s and that
appears to be enough for now, but undoubtedly it will get too slow when
everyone else has 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s.  And my 3GHz CoreDuo PC gets too
slow to comfortably work with those websites that have "endless
scrolling".


Anyone who isn't also on the latest hardware and high-bandwidth (or at
least recent enough to run modern web sites with lots of scripting well)
probably isn't high enough income to be spending enough money on
advertiser's products to make it worthwhile the extra dev time to make
it a good experience for them.

There are a lot of fellow capitalists like me here in this NG I assumed
but often seem to misconstrue the thrust of it with respect to pandering
to the lowest common denominator of customer.

The Internet is almost entirely revenue-driven and nobody gives a fuck
what someone's experience on a slow-ass budget connection is or some
retiree's out in the boonies with a 10 year old PC and a 56k modem (lol)
or satellite internet "experience" is like on a modern web page it is
not worth anyone's time or money to make it better when was the last
time you bought a Maserati Ghibli or a $10 Starbucks drink you saw
advertised online?

That is to say if you want a better experience, cough up the cash Mr.
Skinty McPoorPockets, the only person stopping you is you and your lack
of cash.