audio recording on IC -help wanted

[Michael A. Terrell]

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:dMmdndGkyPURjdLUnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@earthlink.com:


Lostgallifreyan wrote:


Do they use alkalines in space?


One thing they don't use is Lithium. The equipment we supplied had to
be modified to eliminate the 2K*8 lithium battery backed SRAM. The
equipment was for use in the crew quarters of the Space Station. We used
some 'CapStore' SRAM that is apparently no longer in production.

Generally, they use specially designed Ni-cads in space vehicles.
That is where the myth of Ni-cad 'memory' came from.



Ok. Explosion risk? (Or perhaps noxious and corrosive fumes in enclosed small
volumes, most likely, I guess, if they rupture.) I remember such batteries
appearing on surplus output long before most people even heard of lithium
batteries, so I guess they were being rejected from somewhere. They were fine
though, for me. Still got some even now. Bit of electrode plating requiring a
very short burst discharge to wake them, and off they go like the Energizer
bunny, but slowly, not designed for high peak loads.

Nasa stated that they wanted zero chance of the lithium getting into
the living space, or the on board electronics.

The reason for last night's rant is that I see so much dismissal of other
technologies, and when people talk of what amounts to a claim for mission
critical performance, they should continue to explore other similar
requirements, see what they do. It's changing all the time. Lithium based
battery tech is developing so fast that it's not sensible to dismiss it and
cling to something that is a (significant, granted) step up from the dry
cell. When I look at details on current lithium and Li-ion cells, I see
something that is ready now. Some basic calulations show that their cost per
unit time usable makes them similar to alkaline, with a quarter waste by
volume, maybe better, and a saving on changing times by same factor (not to
mention disruption of people who need to wear or carry those things with as
little disturbance as possible in the course of a day). Can't ignore stuff
like that. People staying with what they know while talking up the value of
their own jobs seem in as poor a position to judge new developments as I am
to judge their jobs... The only way they'll change that is if they explore
more than they dismiss, and I don't see that happening here despite all the
facts and figures trotted out.

Damn, there went my resolve not to post in this, but talking to someone who
makes sense to me more often than not is harder to resist than those who
would retort mainly because I ranted at them. And it's a very quiet night..

A thought I have about RF mics... what about the little 10 KHz induction
chargers used in toothbrushes? If they could be stacked in a case that had a
single source driving a coil in each cradle, the effort to maintain charges
need be no worse than that of collecting devices and putting them in the
case, a task no doubt already needed. If it is economic for cheap electric
toothbrushes it has to be viable for expensive RF microphones.

Quite often they get packed and trucked to the next job with no time
to charge them. How are you going to power a hundred or more chargers in
a moving vehicle, and monitor the charges? One TV station I worked at
made the mistake of buying a pair of rechargeable wireless microphones.
They were great, for about two months. Then the custom battery packs
had to be replaced at over $200 each. During that time they would have
used less than $50 worth of Alkaline cells. The replacements weren't
rechargeable.


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http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

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listed, or I will not see your messages.

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your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:QtKdndtOo43du9LUnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@earthlink.com:

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:dMmdndGkyPURjdLUnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@earthlink.com:


Lostgallifreyan wrote:


Do they use alkalines in space?


One thing they don't use is Lithium. The equipment we supplied had
to
be modified to eliminate the 2K*8 lithium battery backed SRAM. The
equipment was for use in the crew quarters of the Space Station. We
used some 'CapStore' SRAM that is apparently no longer in production.

Generally, they use specially designed Ni-cads in space vehicles.
That is where the myth of Ni-cad 'memory' came from.



Ok. Explosion risk? (Or perhaps noxious and corrosive fumes in enclosed
small volumes, most likely, I guess, if they rupture.) I remember such
batteries appearing on surplus output long before most people even
heard of lithium batteries, so I guess they were being rejected from
somewhere. They were fine though, for me. Still got some even now. Bit
of electrode plating requiring a very short burst discharge to wake
them, and off they go like the Energizer bunny, but slowly, not
designed for high peak loads.


Nasa stated that they wanted zero chance of the lithium getting into
the living space, or the on board electronics.


The reason for last night's rant is that I see so much dismissal of
other technologies, and when people talk of what amounts to a claim for
mission critical performance, they should continue to explore other
similar requirements, see what they do. It's changing all the time.
Lithium based battery tech is developing so fast that it's not sensible
to dismiss it and cling to something that is a (significant, granted)
step up from the dry cell. When I look at details on current lithium
and Li-ion cells, I see something that is ready now. Some basic
calulations show that their cost per unit time usable makes them
similar to alkaline, with a quarter waste by volume, maybe better, and
a saving on changing times by same factor (not to mention disruption of
people who need to wear or carry those things with as little
disturbance as possible in the course of a day). Can't ignore stuff
like that. People staying with what they know while talking up the
value of their own jobs seem in as poor a position to judge new
developments as I am to judge their jobs... The only way they'll change
that is if they explore more than they dismiss, and I don't see that
happening here despite all the facts and figures trotted out.

Damn, there went my resolve not to post in this, but talking to someone
who makes sense to me more often than not is harder to resist than
those who would retort mainly because I ranted at them. And it's a very
quiet night..

A thought I have about RF mics... what about the little 10 KHz
induction chargers used in toothbrushes? If they could be stacked in a
case that had a single source driving a coil in each cradle, the effort
to maintain charges need be no worse than that of collecting devices
and putting them in the case, a task no doubt already needed. If it is
economic for cheap electric toothbrushes it has to be viable for
expensive RF microphones.


Quite often they get packed and trucked to the next job with no time
to charge them. How are you going to power a hundred or more chargers in
a moving vehicle, and monitor the charges? One TV station I worked at
made the mistake of buying a pair of rechargeable wireless microphones.
They were great, for about two months. Then the custom battery packs
had to be replaced at over $200 each. During that time they would have
used less than $50 worth of Alkaline cells. The replacements weren't
rechargeable.

Case/charger fed from vehicle supply? Or a larger battery packed with them?
Charge monitor for Li-ion is simple, one in each unit would switch it off
when it had enough. If it works for toothbrushes it can work for mics.

2 months sucks, but I know my cheap Chinese Li-ions have coped way better
than that on a cheap Chinese charger, so I don't doubt that a bad case in the
past isn't a way to judge a future, when even a basic standard current
example is good. I think the question is whether the organisation needed to
make the change is worth the time saved. Considering the premium some people
here put on their time, their jobs, their reputation, it surely is. Alkaline
probably makes awesome backup so I'm not suggesting throw them out, but
relying on them doesn't make sense to me. Scaling up the small use of Li-ion
(which is definitely better for constant modest drain in a small flashlight)
to a repeatable application for a hundred similar items doesn't multiply a
problem, it divides it.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Lostgallifreyan <no-one@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:Xns9B7C3A3E684A8zoodlewurdle@216.196.109.145:

Case/charger fed from vehicle supply? Or a larger battery packed with
them? Charge monitor for Li-ion is simple, one in each unit would switch
it off when it had enough. If it works for toothbrushes it can work for
mics.

Small extra bonus to this idea: discharge monitor. Nothing fancy, just enough
to let the user know when it's perhaps 90% down. That way you get way longer
than alkaline discharge time, and plenty of warning ahead of time instead of
a sudden stop. As Li-ion batteries don't like deep discharge, such a monitor
will be part of the battery control circuit. It's easy to think of this as
part of the cost of the battery, but that's not correct. It's part of the
cost of the device, and a small one too.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:QtKdndtOo43du9LUnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@earthlink.com:


Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:dMmdndGkyPURjdLUnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@earthlink.com:


Lostgallifreyan wrote:


Do they use alkalines in space?


One thing they don't use is Lithium. The equipment we supplied had
to
be modified to eliminate the 2K*8 lithium battery backed SRAM. The
equipment was for use in the crew quarters of the Space Station. We
used some 'CapStore' SRAM that is apparently no longer in production.

Generally, they use specially designed Ni-cads in space vehicles.
That is where the myth of Ni-cad 'memory' came from.



Ok. Explosion risk? (Or perhaps noxious and corrosive fumes in enclosed
small volumes, most likely, I guess, if they rupture.) I remember such
batteries appearing on surplus output long before most people even
heard of lithium batteries, so I guess they were being rejected from
somewhere. They were fine though, for me. Still got some even now. Bit
of electrode plating requiring a very short burst discharge to wake
them, and off they go like the Energizer bunny, but slowly, not
designed for high peak loads.


Nasa stated that they wanted zero chance of the lithium getting into
the living space, or the on board electronics.


The reason for last night's rant is that I see so much dismissal of
other technologies, and when people talk of what amounts to a claim for
mission critical performance, they should continue to explore other
similar requirements, see what they do. It's changing all the time.
Lithium based battery tech is developing so fast that it's not sensible
to dismiss it and cling to something that is a (significant, granted)
step up from the dry cell. When I look at details on current lithium
and Li-ion cells, I see something that is ready now. Some basic
calulations show that their cost per unit time usable makes them
similar to alkaline, with a quarter waste by volume, maybe better, and
a saving on changing times by same factor (not to mention disruption of
people who need to wear or carry those things with as little
disturbance as possible in the course of a day). Can't ignore stuff
like that. People staying with what they know while talking up the
value of their own jobs seem in as poor a position to judge new
developments as I am to judge their jobs... The only way they'll change
that is if they explore more than they dismiss, and I don't see that
happening here despite all the facts and figures trotted out.

Damn, there went my resolve not to post in this, but talking to someone
who makes sense to me more often than not is harder to resist than
those who would retort mainly because I ranted at them. And it's a very
quiet night..

A thought I have about RF mics... what about the little 10 KHz
induction chargers used in toothbrushes? If they could be stacked in a
case that had a single source driving a coil in each cradle, the effort
to maintain charges need be no worse than that of collecting devices
and putting them in the case, a task no doubt already needed. If it is
economic for cheap electric toothbrushes it has to be viable for
expensive RF microphones.


Quite often they get packed and trucked to the next job with no time
to charge them. How are you going to power a hundred or more chargers in
a moving vehicle, and monitor the charges? One TV station I worked at
made the mistake of buying a pair of rechargeable wireless microphones.
They were great, for about two months. Then the custom battery packs
had to be replaced at over $200 each. During that time they would have
used less than $50 worth of Alkaline cells. The replacements weren't
rechargeable.



Case/charger fed from vehicle supply? Or a larger battery packed with them?
Charge monitor for Li-ion is simple, one in each unit would switch it off
when it had enough. If it works for toothbrushes it can work for mics.

How are you going to do that in the back of a tractor trailer that's
loaded with equipment? You aren't allowed to modify the vehicles, and
in most cases, you never see the same rig & driver twice in a row.

2 months sucks, but I know my cheap Chinese Li-ions have coped way better
than that on a cheap Chinese charger, so I don't doubt that a bad case in the
past isn't a way to judge a future, when even a basic standard current
example is good. I think the question is whether the organisation needed to
make the change is worth the time saved. Considering the premium some people
here put on their time, their jobs, their reputation, it surely is. Alkaline
probably makes awesome backup so I'm not suggesting throw them out, but
relying on them doesn't make sense to me. Scaling up the small use of Li-ion
(which is definitely better for constant modest drain in a small flashlight)
to a repeatable application for a hundred similar items doesn't multiply a
problem, it divides it.

You should work a big show sometime with a crew of dozens of people
where you only have a couple hours to unload multiple tractor trailers
of equipment, set it up and test it in time for the event. Jakdert does
large convention shows, not small one man jobs.

What would you do if you got a batch of defective Li-on batteries
that started fires? One could put you out of business. A lot of laptop
computers have ben destroy by defective cells, and some idiot tossed a
burning laptop into the back of the crew cab on his pickup truck. The
fire not only destroyed the laptop, it burnt the truck, and injured his
young daughter who was strapped in, in the passenger seat.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

Lostgallifreyan <no-one@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:Xns9B7C3A3E684A8zoodlewurdle@216.196.109.145:

Case/charger fed from vehicle supply? Or a larger battery packed with
them? Charge monitor for Li-ion is simple, one in each unit would switch
it off when it had enough. If it works for toothbrushes it can work for
mics.


Small extra bonus to this idea: discharge monitor. Nothing fancy, just enough
to let the user know when it's perhaps 90% down.

Then you interrupt a performance to replace the weak battery?

That way you get way longer
than alkaline discharge time, and plenty of warning ahead of time instead of
a sudden stop. As Li-ion batteries don't like deep discharge, such a monitor
will be part of the battery control circuit. It's easy to think of this as
part of the cost of the battery, but that's not correct. It's part of the
cost of the device, and a small one too.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:QLydnTOAJdC97tLUnZ2dnUVZ_hIAAAAA@earthlink.com:

Then you interrupt a performance to replace the weak battery?

You're underestimating the life of a charge. It won't end before a
performance, even if that performance lasts all day, unless you set it up
without it being charged during some time earlier. There'd be more chance of
an alkaline dying on that time scale. Perhaps 4 times.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:QLydnTCAJdBf79LUnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@earthlink.com:

How are you going to do that in the back of a tractor trailer that's
loaded with equipment? You aren't allowed to modify the vehicles, and
in most cases, you never see the same rig & driver twice in a row.

By loading it all in the same box.

You should work a big show sometime with a crew of dozens of people
where you only have a couple hours to unload multiple tractor trailers
of equipment, set it up and test it in time for the event. Jakdert does
large convention shows, not small one man jobs.

Well, the idea I have is this. It might have problems, but it seems doable to
me. Lead-acid is heavy, but not that big a part of a large trailerful, and
fairly small, and safe (they can travel in the UK with no special handling,
in couriers vans and such). So when the box with that and the case of mics is
unloaded, the battery is plugged in, the mics moved to where needed, all
charged. At the end, the power is unplugged, the mics cased, lid closed, box
loaded.

Is this really so unfeasible? Isn't it worth it to save the change time for
loads of batteries with smaller charge times? The case/charger design and the
mics are a larger investment but on that scale it might pay back fast.

What would you do if you got a batch of defective Li-on batteries
that started fires? One could put you out of business. A lot of laptop
computers have ben destroy by defective cells, and some idiot tossed a
burning laptop into the back of the crew cab on his pickup truck. The
fire not only destroyed the laptop, it burnt the truck, and injured his
young daughter who was strapped in, in the passenger seat.

That's a bad one, but I think running Li-ion in a hot laptop is likely
different to the low-drain conditions in a mic. I've heard of laptop fires,
but not burning mics. Or flashlights.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:QLydnTCAJdBf79LUnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@earthlink.com:

How are you going to do that in the back of a tractor trailer that's
loaded with equipment? You aren't allowed to modify the vehicles, and
in most cases, you never see the same rig & driver twice in a row.


By loading it all in the same box.



You should work a big show sometime with a crew of dozens of people
where you only have a couple hours to unload multiple tractor trailers
of equipment, set it up and test it in time for the event. Jakdert does
large convention shows, not small one man jobs.


Well, the idea I have is this. It might have problems, but it seems doable to
me. Lead-acid is heavy, but not that big a part of a large trailerful, and
fairly small, and safe (they can travel in the UK with no special handling,
in couriers vans and such). So when the box with that and the case of mics is
unloaded, the battery is plugged in, the mics moved to where needed, all
charged. At the end, the power is unplugged, the mics cased, lid closed, box
loaded.

Is this really so unfeasible? Isn't it worth it to save the change time for
loads of batteries with smaller charge times? The case/charger design and the
mics are a larger investment but on that scale it might pay back fast.

What would you do if you got a batch of defective Li-on batteries
that started fires? One could put you out of business. A lot of laptop
computers have ben destroy by defective cells, and some idiot tossed a
burning laptop into the back of the crew cab on his pickup truck. The
fire not only destroyed the laptop, it burnt the truck, and injured his
young daughter who was strapped in, in the passenger seat.


That's a bad one, but I think running Li-ion in a hot laptop is likely
different to the low-drain conditions in a mic. I've heard of laptop fires,
but not burning mics. Or flashlights.

I had an old wireless mic from a church that was built with a ni-cad
rechargable battery pack. It shorted out & caught fire while being
used. It burnt a hole in the user's shirt and gave him some bad burns.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:f-idnedTT_OZEtLUnZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d@earthlink.com:

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:QLydnTCAJdBf79LUnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@earthlink.com:

How are you going to do that in the back of a tractor trailer
that's
loaded with equipment? You aren't allowed to modify the vehicles,
and in most cases, you never see the same rig & driver twice in a
row.


By loading it all in the same box.



You should work a big show sometime with a crew of dozens of
people
where you only have a couple hours to unload multiple tractor
trailers of equipment, set it up and test it in time for the event.
Jakdert does large convention shows, not small one man jobs.


Well, the idea I have is this. It might have problems, but it seems
doable to me. Lead-acid is heavy, but not that big a part of a large
trailerful, and fairly small, and safe (they can travel in the UK with
no special handling, in couriers vans and such). So when the box with
that and the case of mics is unloaded, the battery is plugged in, the
mics moved to where needed, all charged. At the end, the power is
unplugged, the mics cased, lid closed, box loaded.

Is this really so unfeasible? Isn't it worth it to save the change time
for loads of batteries with smaller charge times? The case/charger
design and the mics are a larger investment but on that scale it might
pay back fast.

What would you do if you got a batch of defective Li-on batteries
that started fires? One could put you out of business. A lot of
laptop computers have ben destroy by defective cells, and some idiot
tossed a burning laptop into the back of the crew cab on his pickup
truck. The fire not only destroyed the laptop, it burnt the truck,
and injured his young daughter who was strapped in, in the passenger
seat.


That's a bad one, but I think running Li-ion in a hot laptop is likely
different to the low-drain conditions in a mic. I've heard of laptop
fires, but not burning mics. Or flashlights.


I had an old wireless mic from a church that was built with a ni-cad
rechargable battery pack. It shorted out & caught fire while being
used. It burnt a hole in the user's shirt and gave him some bad burns.

Ok. But I think they will improve reliability and safety margins. Lithium
batery technology is (as far as I can tell) the single most developed tech
currently. So how long will it be before it's viable to trust as alkalies
are? Rhetorical question. I don't think it will be long at all.
And, you said NiCd. I think those are worse than Li-ion for risk. Also, I
think an RF mic with a charge/discharge monitor for Li-ion might also have a
cheap current limit resistance or other protection fitted in immediate series
contact with the battery.

There is one detail I am not sure of; that's whether the cost would
significantly rise if the battery compartment had a hatch. WOuld be best if
it had, so that Li-ion batteries can be changed at need, and when really
needed, an alkaline fitted in place. If the same device allows both, uptake
might be better.

 

[IanM]

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:dc6vk4pnbo8vjnhtdtsoj51ip2j4dukqna@4ax.com:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:33:27 +0000 (GMT), the renowned Stuart
Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

In article <K9ednW76oay37dLUnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'm in the US, so quid is meaningless to me.
Quid = Pounds, at the current exchange rate = $1.47
If you remember the 3-letter ISO currency codes, Google will do a lot
of the slogwork for you, and more.

For example, if I would like to know the price of gasoline (petrol) in
China using the obsolete units of my youth, I need only type:

5.1 CNY per liter in CAD per imperial gallon

and it responds with

5.1 (Chinese yuan per liter) = 4.08944735 Canadian dollars per
Imperial gallon

Or combined reciprocal and units conversion:

6.3 liters per 100km in miles per imperial gallon

responds with

6.3 liters per 100km = 44.8382624 miles per Imperial gallon

or

6.3 liters per 100km in miles per gallon

responds with

6.3 liters per 100km = 37.3356481 miles per gallon

(careful, the default "gallon" is some kind of undersized quaint wine
gallon for unknown reasons).


Here is the list of ISO codes (Google does not have them all
available, but the major ones should be there).

http://www.xe.com/iso4217.php


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

That's neat. Thanks. I didn't know it was that sophisticated. if it's
tolerant of errors, especially cool. Makes up for many of the annoyances of
Google.

You dont even need the curency code so long as you know the country and
the proper name of their currency e.g. googling:
chinese yuan per liter in tunisian dinar per imperial quart
gave me:
1 Chinese yuan per litre = 0.218313254 Tunisian dinar per Imperial quart

Just for fun try:
speed of light in fathoms per fortnight

There are some other constants and many trig functions implemented as well.

Anyone who hasn't used it much before should read:
<http://www.googleguide.com/help/calculator.html>

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:52:59 -0600, Lostgallifreyan wrote:

"Ron(UK)" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in
news:HKadnVPgwPOru9PUnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com:

In your opinion maybe. Professionals in the sound industry use quality
replaceable batteries, they are reliable - reliability means
_everything_ when a show (or your job) is at stake.

Lame. I keep hearing this silly excuse.

You obviously don't grasp the concept of "The Show Must Go On."

And why the religious crusade? What's it to you which batteries he uses?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

IanM <Invalid@totally.invalid> wrote in
news:giohnj$108r$1@energise.enta.net:

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:dc6vk4pnbo8vjnhtdtsoj51ip2j4dukqna@4ax.com:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:33:27 +0000 (GMT), the renowned Stuart
Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

In article <K9ednW76oay37dLUnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'm in the US, so quid is meaningless to me.
Quid = Pounds, at the current exchange rate = $1.47
If you remember the 3-letter ISO currency codes, Google will do a lot
of the slogwork for you, and more.

For example, if I would like to know the price of gasoline (petrol) in
China using the obsolete units of my youth, I need only type:

5.1 CNY per liter in CAD per imperial gallon

and it responds with

5.1 (Chinese yuan per liter) = 4.08944735 Canadian dollars per
Imperial gallon

Or combined reciprocal and units conversion:

6.3 liters per 100km in miles per imperial gallon

responds with

6.3 liters per 100km = 44.8382624 miles per Imperial gallon

or

6.3 liters per 100km in miles per gallon

responds with

6.3 liters per 100km = 37.3356481 miles per gallon

(careful, the default "gallon" is some kind of undersized quaint wine
gallon for unknown reasons).


Here is the list of ISO codes (Google does not have them all
available, but the major ones should be there).

http://www.xe.com/iso4217.php


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

That's neat. Thanks. I didn't know it was that sophisticated. if it's
tolerant of errors, especially cool. Makes up for many of the
annoyances of Google.

You dont even need the curency code so long as you know the country and
the proper name of their currency e.g. googling:
chinese yuan per liter in tunisian dinar per imperial quart
gave me:
1 Chinese yuan per litre = 0.218313254 Tunisian dinar per Imperial
quart

Just for fun try:
speed of light in fathoms per fortnight

There are some other constants and many trig functions implemented as
well.

Anyone who hasn't used it much before should read:
http://www.googleguide.com/help/calculator.html

Nice link. What really scores is Google's indexing of currency variables in
calculations. That could be extended. For example, it could be very useful if
it always indexed variables like current distance to earth, moon, mars, or
height of tide in some location, or time of dawn or dusk there. max/min/avg
daily or monthly temperatures in various locations...

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

krw wrote:

In article <pan.2008.12.26.22.20.34.347564@example.net>,
rich@example.net says...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:37:16 +0000, Peter Hucker wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:33:33 -0000, krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
In article <op.umr889dw4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net>, none@spam.com says...
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:17:35 -0000, William Sommerwerck
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

But the Duracells were lasting only 6 months. They're cheap smoke
alarms.

That's pretty bad. I've been using leftover Toshibas, and they last
at least a year.

I bought 6 smoke alarms at once, so I went for cheap ones. 99p on ebay
I believe.

Oh, *that's* a smart move. Expected though.

I did of course test them. They detect smoke perfectly well.

Ignore krw. He's a nincompoop.

It figures. PHucker and Grease make a fine pair. Add in the Dumb
Donkey, DimBulb, and Slowman and you likely have the entire market
for .99 smoke alarms. Real brains there, Grease.

If he had 99 cents, he would blow it on a gallon of fine wine.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 02:27:36 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Archimedes' Lever wrote:

Bullcrap. I have both AAA, AA, and C size cells here, and the C size
cells have the same ampere hour rating that the AA batteries do. Guess
what that means to the charger, dingledorf?

Have you got NOTHING better in your life to do than aggravate people
needlessly ?

Look, asswipe, first off, there is NO SPACE between the end of your
inane remarks and the punctuation for your inane remarks.

Secondly, everything I said is true. I have C cells here that are NOT
the fucking retarded type he refers to.

You? You can fuck off.

Playstation broken ?

See above, dumbshit.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:15:14 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Why do you think that insulting me is going to get me upset or do your
reputation any good?

How can such an idiot actually think that he knows "what I think"?

 

[IanM]

Archimedes' Lever wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:34:37 -0800, Peter Bennett
peterbb@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:52:52 GMT, nicola <nomail@it.com> wrote:

On Sat 03 Jan 14:16, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote

In article <Xns9B88874EDE55D4F1A28@209.197.15.171>,
nicola <nomail@it.com> wrote:

(Q1) Under "DC CURRENT" my user guide says, "voltage drop: 200
mV". Is this the disturbance in a circuit when measuring DC
current?
It is the volt drop across the meter at "full scale deflection".

If you measure 2mA on the 2mA range it will cause a 200mV drop.
If you measure 2mA on the 20mA range it will cause 20mV drop.
Oh! Now that isn't what I was expecting.

I read what others have posted about the meter being based arounf
a voltmeter which reads 200 mV at full scale.

I had inferred that the full scale deflection reading was
dependent on the range chosen.

So, for example, the full scale reading on a 20 mA range would be
20 mA. (On the 2mA range it would be 2 mA.) And I then had the
impression that when reading almost 20 mA on the 20 mA range, I
would get the 200 mV drop mentioned in the specs.

Is that understanding wrong?

nikk

No - it is correct.

The meter has a voltage drop of 200 mV at full scale - internally, it
is a 200 mV full scale meter.

If you measure a current of 2 mA on the 2 mA scale, the meter will
have a 200 mV voltage drop.

If you switch to the 20 mA scale, that 2 mA current will result in a
20 mV drop.

If you switch to the 200 mA scale, the 2 mA current will result in a 2
mV drop.

For any scale and current, the meter's voltage drop is:
(current/full_scale) * 200 mV


Jeez dude. You can get a cheap $12 meter that has a much higher
^^^^^^
internal resistance at Harbor Freight or your local auto parts store.

Just get a better meter for the task.
^^^^^^

So Lever thinks higher resistance is better for measuring current!

ROTFLMAO

<plonk>

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:11:13 +0000, IanM <look.in.my.sig@totally.invalid>
wrote:

So Lever thinks higher resistance is better for measuring current!

ROTFLMAO

I was not referring to the shunt, you retarded twit.

 

[Don Kelly]

Phil Allison wrote:

Archimedes'= CRIMINAL PSYCHOPATH "


** Report this FUCKING SCUMBAG to his ISP

NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get the VILE PIG OFF usenet for ever.

The gutless POS anonymous ASSHOLE has a long CRIMINAL history.


Do NOT TOLERATE VILE SCUM like this puke

fucking up YOUR news group !!!!





..... Phil





plonk

--
Don Kelly
dhky@shawcross.ca
remove X to reply

 

[Sulo Braun]

Pienipäistä moraalia, suuret toleranssit.

Jälleen kerran asiaa, jota maassamme tuskin kourallinen edes tietää. OL-3
työmaan mokailut on jo alansa klassikoita. Mutta jopa siinä ilmapiirissä
tämä hakee kyllä vertaistaan minusta. Ydinvoimalan suunnittelu oli enemmän
kuin hakusessa jo startista asti ja se meinaan näkyy. Ja siksi TVO on
suluttanut työmaan megamokia henkilökuntaansa tarkoin uhkaillen ja
painostaen vaikenemaan. No työläiset ovat siis kuukausimääriä lekailleet
haperia puolalaisia suojapellinkuoria paikoilleen. Metalliosissa todetut
massiiviset tuumaluokkaiset megatoleranssivirheet on toki jo niineen
tuhoisan tulevaisuuden takuutavaraa, mutta kun niitä runnotaan väkipakolla
vängällä paikkoihin jonne eivät sovi, niin puhutaan ydinreaktorin
suoranaisesta ja tahallisesta miinoittamisesta!



No ydinalalla nyt ei tunnetusti TVO/ STUK:lle ja vastaaville ole niin tuuman
päälle, pääasia että meteliä tulee ja palkat juoksee. Tulevat sukupolvet
sitten tällaista huumoria hengillään toki maksaa ja maksattaa. Mutta täytyy
sanoa, ettei tämmöiset ole kuin, no hei alkupaloja, jatkossa päästään kiinni
itse "juttuun"! OL-3 voimalaa oli jo kuukausimääriä rakennettu ongelmitta.
Kukaan ei huomannut yhtään mitään. Sitten eräänä kauniina päivänä
puolalainen ydinorja, ei toki insinööri, eiväthän ne mitään oikeasti osaa,
saati uskalla. Vaan arkinen perustyöläinen alkoi pohtia. Hänestä oli hiukan
"outoa", että voimalaan merivesi tuli moottoritien levyistä jokea pitkin,
mutta.. .. Niin tosiaan minnes se katoaa, kaveri alkoi kysellä kummissaan?



Vaikka tässä nyt mitään outoa. Ydinvoimalasta oli vaan kas hienoa
yksinkertaisesti UNOHTUNUT moinen pikku nyanssi. Ranskassa kun sellaisia
turhakkeita ei oltu ikään kuin "totuttu" käyttämään haihdutustornien takia.
Paljonkos sellaiset poistokanavat mahtipontisia ydininsinöörejä kiinnostaa?
No tuumasta toimeen ja summamutikassa lyijykynällä kämmensyrjällä kuvaan
hutaistaan kanavalle räjäytysreikä. Joten se siitä ja koko työmaa uusiksi!
No kanava saadaan ja kaikki huokaisevat, ettei lehdistö saanut vihiä ja
naurut jäi tulematta. Meni taas muutama tovi. Lieneekö ollut tämä
puolalaisorja, tuskin koska ydinalalla älykkyyttä ei suvaita toki. Kaveri
oli siis lempattu, poissa jaloista haittaamassa ydinnerouden
ilmentymäklamouria. Ehkä se silti on puolalaisissa ydinorjissa geeneissä,
että huomaavat? Yhtä kaikki pian oli huomiona, että kanava oli pikkaisen
ahdas. Juu ei mitään senttejä, ei edes kymmeniä. ..Niin kunnon OL-3 tyyliin
heittoja METREISSÄ ja USEAMPI! .



No sitten aivoriihtä pystyyn, että miten moka taas salataan ja
miljarditappiot piilotetaan? No yhtä kaikki megasuurta piikkausta, kun
räjäyttelyt sortaisivat koko ydinhyyskän. Voi kuvitella mitä metrien
levyinen piikkausurakka tarkoittaa? No ehkä räjäyttely ei olisi ollut
lainkaan tuomassa lisäriskejä silti? 17.05-08 lehdet kun häpeillen TVO:n
megamokia kertoilivat miten Olkiluodon seinät suorastaan tursuavat sinne jo
valmiiksi kätkettyjä ties mitä räjähdysaineistusta. Oli löytynyt kuulema
niin paljon ja lukuisista paikoista, että. .. no hei kun moka on tehty, niin
syyllistetään ketä käsiin saadaan. Eli asia on mennyt nyt poliisitutkintaan!
No mitä uutta ydinalalle tässä enää on, en todella tiedä. Mutta ehkä näin
suomalaispoliisivyörytyksellä saadaan ydinvoimalatyömaan pian 80 % <
ulkomaalaisorjajoukkojen sekaan viimein myös
suomalaisbroletariaatipoliisitutkijoita! Hu heijaa, menee taas ydinalamme
niin sotkuiseksi, ettei näitä maassamme lisäkseni kukaan edes osaa, saati
tiedä tiedottaa. No tässä mitään, TVO:kin puolusteli, ettei valmiiksi
miinoitettuja ydinvoimalan seinämiä kannata ihmetellä saati surra!? Toki,
toki, mutta miksei? No koska jopa Areva on jo pitkään sen kiteyttänyt
käyttökelvottomaksi käsiin "räjähtäväksi jo alkujaan epäonnistuneeksi
koekyhäelmäksi". Ja taas ydinaiheesta lisää jahka saan naurultani
näpyteltyä.)

 

[Niilo Karlsson]

On ollut naurussa pitelemistä kun on kuulustellut miten SUPO on huolissaan
siitä miten kirjoitukseni vaikuttaa täällä olevaan "nuorisoon?" Ja sitten
selitellään miten ikäänkuin huolestuneita ollaan heillä siitä, miten
kirjoitukseni saa massat ryntäämään ydinvoiman PUOLELLE!

Öö.. noin jahas ja onko SUPO:sta siten paha, jos kansa kannattaa
ydinvoimaa!??

Onko sitten MYÖS mun kannalta 100% uskoittavaa, että nimenomaan
ydininsinöörien huoli olisi aiheessa AITOA??

Niin oikke juu. Kyllä tuossa yhtälöissä mättää niin jok ikinen yksityiskohta
alusta loppuun asti, ettei noita nauramati luve kukaaN! Kaiken muun
syytöharhansa lisäksi luuleeko ydininsinööri, että älyllisen nuoren päähän
voi noin vaan kirjoittaa aivoituksia, kuin vieraskirjaan? Kyllä nyt SUPO:n
porukoiden "pitäisi tajuta ihmispsykologiasta" jotain! Kun nuori aloittelee
ammatin valintaa hän kyselee sitä tietysti ydininsinööri-isältään. Saaden
vaan :"Juu on sielä ihan kivaa ja rahaa saa, älä kysy, kun kielsivät
puhumasta asiasta firman ulkopuolella mitään!" Nuori sanoo harmistuneena
tutkivansa sitten itse netistä.

Ja kas kummaa ydinalasta ei aukee sivua paria mainosta enempää! Ja nuoreen
iskee syvä, hämmästynyt epäilys. Pari nettihittiä Ronneburg, Wismunt,
Majakin ydinräjähdys ja päälle ehkä materiaalia Harrisburgista. Ainoat
jotka aiheesta osaa kirjoitella on, kas kummaa mun 72 raporttia, jossa
kerrotaan rehdisti tuhansista säteilyyn kuolleista suorasukaisen
dogumentoivasti. Ja se yksi pakolinen SUPO:n materiaali joka kertoo kuin
insinööri-isäkloonaus, että ydinonnettumuus on :"Hauskinta mitä voi housut
jalassa elämältään toivoa!( Nuori kiikuttaa isälleen pari kopiota jutuistani
ja ilmeisestä ristiriidasta ns. "julkisuuskamaan ja isäinsu raivostuu, että
kuka tällaista paskaa edes kehtaa! Teini sanoo, ettei tiiä kun netissä..
..Siitä paikasta isä kuin myrkyn merkki ja kieltää koko netteilyn seinään
viikorahakielloin! .. ..

Siltappaa juu ja kaverit kertoo koulussa 4,5 miljoonasta löytämistään
Tsernon uhrista ja Vartiaisen 7.3 milj/v ydinkuolemasta ja lukuisista muista
esiin kaivamistaan jutuistani. No mitäs luulisitte, kun hiiltynyt isä kysele
toivojensa intoa parin vuoden päästä ydintöihin, jossa rahaa tulee kuin
sontaa ja säteily on ihan JesH!? No hei täällä niitä "isiä" oli jo
ilahduttavan pian ensiraporttieni jälkeen ruikuttamassa nuortensa
ydinkammoa. .Öö noin mistäs syystä? Ja ennen kaikkea kiikuttaako tämän
kaiken kokenut isä totuuden tästä mulle torvet soiden?!))