audio recording on IC -help wanted

Joerg wrote:
Jamie wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Hello All,

After some problems a client saw I was treated to my own dose of
what is likely flash loss: The uC in our mailbox door has become
erratic. I installed it about three months ago and half of the day
it receives a good pelting from the sun. First it began not
recognizing some keys, then it started doing weird stuff like lock
cycling. Things it wasn't meant to ever do. Batteries, contacts
and such look ok, reset didn't help, so that's not it.

TI has an app note about the topic:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slaa392/slaa392.pdf

Figure 1 looks scary above the 80C range. Later they presented
another test with a different bake cycle which makes things look
better but who knows.

What is you experience with respect to flash errors on uC that are
exposed to elevated temperatures as most outdoors applications are?

One of my clients makes products that regularly go above 80C, and
that has never been an issue to my knowledge (all the service guys
I used to hang with have either left or been promoted, so I don't
have that immediate knowledge one gets by being service's life
line). Certainly the to-do if it were recognized would have
bubbled down to me.


Well, in my case it kind of has bubbled down to me now ;-)


OTOH, all the parts are very carefully selected to work over the
industrial temperature range; if your mailbox thingie is designed
with commercial temp range parts all bets are off (and it may be
something else that's happening, too).


It's not just this mailbox but also some MSP430 apps at a client.
They predate my involvement there and we are pretty much stuck with
that for a while. We are seeing a distinct pattern where those
inside smaller boxes fail more often than those in larger and more
airy enclosures. This stuff is used in the south where summers are
quite toasty.

Have you tried cooking them on purpose? Even if you don't have a
"real" environmental chamber, you can do a lot with an insulated box
and a heat gun (including catching the lab on fire (ask me how I
know!), but that usually entertains the technicians).

I'd toss some in an oven for an extended high-temperature test, to
see where they failed.

I'd also check the heat rise against ambient in both small and large
enclosures.

If they get any solar load, I'd throw up my hands and call a
mechanical engineer who's good with thermodynamics, but that's just
because I (usually) know where my competence ends.

Some of the flash parts that I have seen used to success have been
from TI, but they aren't TMS430s, and they _are_ industrial
temperature range parts.

I have found strong R.F. and EMF's in close proximity have caused the
flash to get corrupted in PIC's. I'm sure it effects others.


What do you mean by strong? VHF radio close by? Cell phone? If yes, do
you remember how close?

100 W VHF transmitter ~ 6 feet away.
Click to expand...

Another problem I have heard of but never experienced and
that is police microwave radar. I guess for some uC's there
are circuit paths that match the wave length and can cause
unwanted effects in the memory.
--
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
 
Joerg wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Hello All,

After some problems a client saw I was treated to my own dose of
what is likely flash loss: The uC in our mailbox door has become
erratic. I installed it about three months ago and half of the day
it receives a good pelting from the sun. First it began not
recognizing some keys, then it started doing weird stuff like lock
cycling. Things it wasn't meant to ever do. Batteries, contacts and
such look ok, reset didn't help, so that's not it.

TI has an app note about the topic:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slaa392/slaa392.pdf

Figure 1 looks scary above the 80C range. Later they presented
another test with a different bake cycle which makes things look
better but who knows.

What is you experience with respect to flash errors on uC that are
exposed to elevated temperatures as most outdoors applications are?

One of my clients makes products that regularly go above 80C, and
that has never been an issue to my knowledge (all the service guys I
used to hang with have either left or been promoted, so I don't have
that immediate knowledge one gets by being service's life line).
Certainly the to-do if it were recognized would have bubbled down to
me.


Well, in my case it kind of has bubbled down to me now ;-)


OTOH, all the parts are very carefully selected to work over the
industrial temperature range; if your mailbox thingie is designed
with commercial temp range parts all bets are off (and it may be
something else that's happening, too).


It's not just this mailbox but also some MSP430 apps at a client.
They predate my involvement there and we are pretty much stuck with
that for a while. We are seeing a distinct pattern where those inside
smaller boxes fail more often than those in larger and more airy
enclosures. This stuff is used in the south where summers are quite
toasty.

Have you tried cooking them on purpose? Even if you don't have a
"real" environmental chamber, you can do a lot with an insulated box
and a heat gun (including catching the lab on fire (ask me how I
know!), but that usually entertains the technicians).


That I haven't tried yet. A friend of mine (chemical engineer) did
something similar. After an extended hospital stay he casually mentioned
that his lab was now a black hole and that the door was gone.


I'd toss some in an oven for an extended high-temperature test, to see
where they failed.

I'd also check the heat rise against ambient in both small and large
enclosures.


That's what I suggested to the client, to place some USB temp loggers in
there.


If they get any solar load, I'd throw up my hands and call a
mechanical engineer who's good with thermodynamics, but that's just
because I (usually) know where my competence ends.

Some of the flash parts that I have seen used to success have been
from TI, but they aren't TMS430s, and they _are_ industrial
temperature range parts.


I wish the MSP430 was available in automotive but it ain't. At least not
according to the TI rep.

One could add some code so it re-flashes itself once in a while, that's
another option here.
Click to expand...
I was going to suggest that. But, you ask, "How often?"

A few wild troubleshooting ideas:

One thing you might do is vary the device's Vdd while reading it, thus
changing the read threshold and alerting you to marginal cells before
they fail.

With a heat gun and a device reader you might actually document the
bleed-down of the device's memory cells vs: temperature & derive a
definitive lifetime projection.

Another idea: can you control the programming timing? If so, you could
weakly program a test pattern + CRC in the part. The part could then
test the area itself, detecting impending failures.


Cheers,
James Arthur
 
In article <Xns9B8A6F7646E8374C1H4@69.16.176.253>, Paul B
<mail@nomail.invalid> scribeth thus
On Mon 05 Jan 02:26, Phil Allison <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote


"Paul Bullshit ARTIST "


I take your (and other posters') points about a phone probably
not having a suitable transformer. My headache from trying to
make sense of some of the more technical aspects in this thread
suggests it might be easier in the end to go and buy some
600:600 transformers.


** Hey pal.

YOU already know what to do ( ie use a proper 600:600 ohms
ISOLATION transformer or a device incorporating same) ) and are
just objecting to a price of a few pounds.

Make you a fucking PITA wanker.

FUCK OFF.


I'm not too clear about this "CMRR" you mention.


** Who cares ?

YOU already know what to do ( ie use a proper 600:600 ohms
ISOLATION transformer or a device incorporating same) ) and are
just objecting to a price of a few pounds.

Make you a fucking PITA wanker.

FUCK OFF.


Any views and useful info from anyone would be most welcome.


** I bet this fuckhead is up to something that is highly
illegal !!!!

Hello Phil, I'm not sure what's triggered your response.

Is it really you replying or is it someone pretending? The headers
look real but I'm no expert in detecting an impersonation.

If it is you, then could you perhaps be upset that this thread has
shown so many technical trade-offs I never imagined (frequency
responses, impedances, matching, CMRR, etc) that I have looked more
widely and see digital solutions which might not have so much
subjective judgement? Or are you upset that other technical posters
have taken issue with some of your statments and you find the
discussion with them to be unwelcome? Please don't blame me for
that.

However, your post might be a clever spoof because you made the point
about how important "CMRR" is and when I looked it up but couldn't
understand it, the reply was "who cares". I also note the allegation
that I am may be undertaking illegal and I am sure the real poster
would not have arrived at such a conclusion from me asking how to
connect my home landline to my PC and then considering flash
recorders.

Who knows who you are. You seem to want to upset me.
Click to expand...

No its just him off his meds as usual. He's in uk.rec.audio where the
same hatred of us..........


*********************** !!!fecking pommie arseholes!!!...........

...can be found and every other vile*********

***************pommy or American- shithed- arsehole- who steals the eats
the earths Oxygen to breathe!..etc....


*********and they all are know nothing shitheads arseholes --insert
expletive of your choice--;!

So no your not any different at all!...

fortunately there aren't -that- many about like him thankfully;)...
--
Tony Sayer
 
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Lostgallifreyan wrote:

Eeyore wrote
dizzy wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

If the central heating is on, then you are, by definition, needing
extra heat. The heat output from lighting will mean that the room
thermostat (or radiator valves) will turn off that bit sooner.

Not really.

The heat from most lamps hangs around at ceiling level. It does sod
all to warm a room.

Wrong.

Not wrong.


Yes it is. Most of the heat is radiant.
Click to expand...
Which means most of it ends up where it won't warm YOU.

Graham
 
Life is so hard

Certainty level: 100%

This relates to harassment at my workplace in Canada. Yes, "they" had
their claws into my employers in North America, it doesn't just happen
in England, it happens here as well.

During the second half of 1996, at work, I was sitting near a co-worker
whom we shall call Mark (we can, because that's his name). This guy
occasionally came out with words and phrases that made me think that
"they" had got to him and were supplying him with information about my
home life (not social life please note, because of course I don't actually
have a social life here).

During November 1996 I tried to catch him in the act of saying something
"meaningful", a difficult exercise because as soon as he saw a tape
recorder, he shut up completely, except for times when he knew he would
be out of range of the walkman. (Note that the quality of this recording
is not very good; I was just using a four-year-old tape walkman with
a cheap microphone, quite low-tech).

During the evening of 12 November 1996, at home in my apartment (flat to
you UK-ers), I said "life is so hard, and then you die". A nihilistic,
negative thing to say, but quite distinctive. The following day,
13 November, Mark said loudly, "life is so hard eh, and then you die"
followed by loud laughter.

In my book the precise repetition of the words makes this incident a
100% certainty. You, the reader, may differ, but then living in a free
country allows each of us to have our own opinions, doesn't it?

352


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
 
hi, i am after a basic type schematic to controll the speed of a 12 volt
dc automotive cabin fan .

seems to be a bit of a problem in these saab`s.

any schematic using a mj11032 or mj11016 darlington would be good. if
not any electronic speed controll schematic will be fine.
the original darlington is rated at about 25 amp , seems a bit excessive....
these darlingtons i have are rated at 30 and 50 amp.

thanks, mark k
 
Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:23:42 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:42:27 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello All,

After some problems a client saw I was treated to my own dose of what is
likely flash loss: The uC in our mailbox door has become erratic. I
installed it about three months ago and half of the day it receives a
good pelting from the sun. First it began not recognizing some keys,
then it started doing weird stuff like lock cycling. Things it wasn't
meant to ever do. Batteries, contacts and such look ok, reset didn't
help, so that's not it.

TI has an app note about the topic:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slaa392/slaa392.pdf

Figure 1 looks scary above the 80C range. Later they presented another
test with a different bake cycle which makes things look better but who
knows.

What is you experience with respect to flash errors on uC that are
exposed to elevated temperatures as most outdoors applications are?
I only have some small experience here with the MSP430. It seems to
operate at 140C at 3V and 3.3V for the several-hour long tests I've
done. But some bad experiences in storing data into the flash at that
temp and even at 3.3V and higher. But I didn't need the darn thing to
survive all that long, either.
Wow, problems within hours at 140C? Not cool :-(

No. No problems, at all. Just that I didn't run them for more than
about 5 hours at a time. Same one ran for weeks, though, at periodic
elevated temperatures. I was just collecting data from a rotating hot
surface and wanted to just stick the whole contraption there while it
stored a few bits of data into RAM. The battery was the problem.
Click to expand...

However, you said "But some bad experiences in storing data into the
flash at that temp and even at 3.3V and higher."


I haven't read, for understanding, the data sheet you mentioned. I
just downloaded it, though, and thanks for pointing it up. I think it
wasn't around when I looked a few years back and I'm glad that you
pointed it up for me.

Your obvious solution is to move north about a thousand miles. ;)
My wife would absolutely not do that.

Oregon is absolutely beautiful! I've got pileated woodpeckers, 4
kinds of squirrels including a flying squirrel (nocturnal), peafowl,
chickens, guinea hens, turkeys and so on -- tall 60-80 year old firs,
two kinds of ferns, rhododendrons that bloom in succession around the
place, and it looks like a lush rain-forest national forest when you
walk the paths on the property. Lots of acres, 5000 sq ft home, 1/4
mile driveway to the house, view of the mountains, 5 minutes to a
hospital and 20 minutes to the PDX international airport, a 17 mile
well-maintained walking and horse trail that goes from 1/2 mile away
from my home to the Willamette River in Portland, and it cost me $330k
in 2002. Prices are still low, too. Next door has been on the block
for 2 years, is a million dollar home (tax appraisal price) with about
4500 sq ft and 5 acres, and is being offered at $599k now. I'm told
they'd accept under $500k. Neighbors are wonderful, too.
Click to expand...
That sure sounds mouth-watering. But my wife likes places where there is
no winter (and now ours get colder every year ...) and I'd have a wee
problem with the property tax rates up there. 2% or more is IMHO
confiscatory. Oh, and I like proposition 13 (prop tax increase cap) in
California because I do not trust politicians enough to toss them the
keys to my bank account.


3' of fantastic soils, 45" of rain a year nice and evenly distributed
all year 'round in a constant drizzle, and everything grows where you
throw the seed, no digging needed. What could be better? ;)
Click to expand...
Ah, you shouldn't have written "drizzle", my wife would hate that kind
of weather.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode. So I charged a 4.7uF Mylar
capacitor to 36mV DC, and then placed the AM-240 (while in 400mV DC
mode) across the Mylar cap. After 25 minutes and 40 seconds it was
35..2mV. That comes to 14Gohms. So I thought it may be due to bias
current or offset voltage, and reversed the DMM polarity. Same
results. So then I charged the Mylar to 200mV. Same results.

Then, I measured the parallel resistance of my 4.7uF Mylar cap by
charging it to 184.8mV, disconnected the AM-240, and 1050 seconds
later connected the AM-240 and measured 177.1mV. That comes to
5.25Gohms, which is what I would expect from this capacitor. Actually,
for months I've been telling people my guesstimate for this cap is
5Gohms.

Anyhow, what kind of circuit are they using in this AM-240? It
appears as if it *resists* change! When it is disconnected it tends
to somewhat maintain the DC voltage, regardless of polarity. IOW, lets
say it's measuring the DC voltage on the Mylar cap, and it's 180mV.
Then one of the leads is removed. The AM-240 DC voltage decreases a
bit, not too much, but it slows down, and tends to hang around, say
160mV. If I reverse the polarity, to -180mV, the same thing happens
except it hangs around at -160mV. If the AM-240 was measuring say
35mV, and then disconnected, it tends to hand around at oh 20mV to
30mV.

Very interesting DMM. Not sure to like or dislike this.

Thanks for any info.
Paul
 
James Arthur wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Hello All,

After some problems a client saw I was treated to my own dose of
what is likely flash loss: The uC in our mailbox door has become
erratic. I installed it about three months ago and half of the day
it receives a good pelting from the sun. First it began not
recognizing some keys, then it started doing weird stuff like lock
cycling. Things it wasn't meant to ever do. Batteries, contacts
and such look ok, reset didn't help, so that's not it.

TI has an app note about the topic:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slaa392/slaa392.pdf

Figure 1 looks scary above the 80C range. Later they presented
another test with a different bake cycle which makes things look
better but who knows.

What is you experience with respect to flash errors on uC that are
exposed to elevated temperatures as most outdoors applications are?

One of my clients makes products that regularly go above 80C, and
that has never been an issue to my knowledge (all the service guys
I used to hang with have either left or been promoted, so I don't
have that immediate knowledge one gets by being service's life
line). Certainly the to-do if it were recognized would have
bubbled down to me.


Well, in my case it kind of has bubbled down to me now ;-)


OTOH, all the parts are very carefully selected to work over the
industrial temperature range; if your mailbox thingie is designed
with commercial temp range parts all bets are off (and it may be
something else that's happening, too).


It's not just this mailbox but also some MSP430 apps at a client.
They predate my involvement there and we are pretty much stuck with
that for a while. We are seeing a distinct pattern where those
inside smaller boxes fail more often than those in larger and more
airy enclosures. This stuff is used in the south where summers are
quite toasty.

Have you tried cooking them on purpose? Even if you don't have a
"real" environmental chamber, you can do a lot with an insulated box
and a heat gun (including catching the lab on fire (ask me how I
know!), but that usually entertains the technicians).


That I haven't tried yet. A friend of mine (chemical engineer) did
something similar. After an extended hospital stay he casually
mentioned that his lab was now a black hole and that the door was gone.


I'd toss some in an oven for an extended high-temperature test, to
see where they failed.

I'd also check the heat rise against ambient in both small and large
enclosures.


That's what I suggested to the client, to place some USB temp loggers
in there.


If they get any solar load, I'd throw up my hands and call a
mechanical engineer who's good with thermodynamics, but that's just
because I (usually) know where my competence ends.

Some of the flash parts that I have seen used to success have been
from TI, but they aren't TMS430s, and they _are_ industrial
temperature range parts.


I wish the MSP430 was available in automotive but it ain't. At least
not according to the TI rep.

One could add some code so it re-flashes itself once in a while,
that's another option here.

I was going to suggest that. But, you ask, "How often?"

A few wild troubleshooting ideas:

One thing you might do is vary the device's Vdd while reading it, thus
changing the read threshold and alerting you to marginal cells before
they fail.

With a heat gun and a device reader you might actually document the
bleed-down of the device's memory cells vs: temperature & derive a
definitive lifetime projection.

Another idea: can you control the programming timing? If so, you could
weakly program a test pattern + CRC in the part. The part could then
test the area itself, detecting impending failures.
Click to expand...
Sure but that data won't help much. Next month's batch can be all
different. One could just do the sector swaps often enough, maybe once a
week. The max number of write cycles is very high these days, well in
excess of 10000 times. AFAIK that number even goes up with temperature.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:39:46 +1000, "Sally" <me@anon.net> wrote:

You *like* the foul/fowl language? It must be pleasant at your family
mealtable, John. In my field and level we regard such indulgences as
clutter. The pursuit of an intellectual consideration requires meaningful
expression and entirely precludes it, very word being of value. Strongly
asserted differences of opinion are very helpful in exploring the truth but
foul language invariably obscures it. And by the way, attempts to arrive at
the truth logically involve opinion-holders declaring that they were wrong
from tem to time (both sides usually (but not always) can't be right). How
often do you see the abusive posters here stating genuinely that after
reading the other side they have concluded that they were wrong?
Click to expand...
Top posting is abusive.


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:4p2l93ttjh3g208te7o34gq0eo0ea9bg3a@4ax.com...
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:42:49 +1000, "Sally" <me@anon.net> wrote:

But the old rule to avoid unpleasant language is as valid as ever. How can
you rabbit on about top posters and still resort to foul language?

---
One has nothing to do with the other, "Sally", and by top posting
you brand yourself as an intellectual midget whose grousing about
fowl language is for the birds.


--
JF
Click to expand...
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
I do not represent atheists or atheism
 
Paul Keinanen wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:14:57 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Keinanen wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:58:25 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

One could add some code so it re-flashes itself once in a while, that's
another option here. However, the device cannot lose power during that
brief period or it'll be really toast. So that would require large
enough electrolytics and some pre-regulator voltage monitoring. The
latter would require a relayout, bigger ECO and all that. Not a VP of
Engineering's favorite path, usually.
In a high radiation environment usually some ECC bits are stored in
each sector and with frequent sector reads you can detect if there are
flipped bits, correct the errors using the ECC and write back the
sector.

In this way, you know when to do the writeback and you can minimize
the (limited) number of reflashing for a specific sector on the flash.

I assume this would also work with the data retention time problem at
elevated temperatures.

For a program written in assembly, it should not be a problem to
allocate a number of bytes for the ECC bits at the end of sector and
use a branch instruction to skip them, but this might be an issue, if
an HLL is used.

That's an option as well. Although it won't help with power failure
duyring re-writes.

With sector specific ECC, you reduce the likelihood for sector
specific reflashing and also reduce the time of reflash (full
reflash/sector specific reflash).

If this kind of reducing the likelihood for a complete failure is not
sufficient e.g. large capacitors for data retention, you have to go
for a doubly/triple redundant system to avoid such problems.
Click to expand...
True, if something gets us down to <<10% of failure that is in many
cases sufficient. Not in medical or aeronautics though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4692308A.A7CD16AF@hotmail.com:

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

As for actual light output, newer LED's put out 176 lumens or more.

Cite please ?

Graham
Click to expand...
Table: Flux Characteristics (Tj = 25°C)
Cree XR-E type P4, 80 lumens at 350 mA
Cree XR-E type Q4, 100 lumens at 350 mA
Graph: "Relative Intensity vs. Current Tj = 25°C)"
Line rising through 100% output at 350 mA to >220% at Imax of 1A.
Source: http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLamp7090XR-E.pdf

Logical inference is that the P4 can output >176 at 1 amp, and the Q4 can
do >220 lumens at 1 amp.

NIST tested an XR-E Xlamp at 350 mA and found outputs exceeding that
claimed in the data sheet. They did not measure the output at 1A but they
did certify the lumens per watt.
Source:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/NIST%20XLamp%20LED%20Document.pdf

They did not test the output at 1A, or at least did not certify it, but
either the LED's die before you manage to push 1A through them, or they can
do what is claimed. Even if there is a fall-off with current, the Q4 type
will definitely exceed 176 lumens at 1A.
 
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"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote
in message news:Yi9Xi.126$jc2.21@newsfe05.lga...
robb wrote:

i have a transformer that i am trying to understand what it
suppose to produce from the different wwires

the transformer only has these markings
92-326-416-91 115v 60hz
30/8/2 x 2.3v
VDE0551 UL

lets see.
115volts input at 60 hz.

30 volt out tape, 8 volt out tap, and 2 2.3 volt taps.
hows that for guessing ?
Click to expand...
Thanks Jamie.
but that I can find those values on various combinations of
taps/pins (along with other values) but they are not what i would
expect ?

that is the transformer has the 2 - 115v input pins and then 8
output connectors,
the 8 outputs *by continuity tests are grouped 3/3/2 and the
voltages are not a predictable pattern

i get something like this where (#) is an output connection and
___ covers continuity group

_________________ __________________ __________
(1) 2.73v (2) 2.73v (3) (4) 8.22v (5) 16.42v (6) (7)
28.8v (8)
\ / \
/
` 5.45v ' ` 8.22v
'

does this make sense >

thanks for help
robb
 
"Chris Brown" <sent2chris@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:G7ydnasvBJYzgzHbnZ2dnUVZ_rSinZ2d@comcast.com:

Hi all,

A question for those knowledgeable in this area... if I was looking to
measure humidity in a residential setting, what would be the best type
of sensor to use? I've done basic reading on the various types, but
I'd like to hear opinions from folks who really know this topic and
what's out there, practical application, etc.

Ideally, this sensor would identify undesirably high humidity
conditions in a normal household environment, would probably be
replaced rather than recalibrated once installed, and would be
sufficiently accurate to prevent any serious likelihood of false
positives.

Cost, size, and reliability are of particular interest.

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? I would greatly appreciate
any input. If this would be better posted in a different newsgroup,
please let me know.

Thanks!

- Chris
Click to expand...
Looks light the right choice of group to me..

If improvisation and cheapness are ok, you could try the resistance of
paper. Crude I know, but workable, as paper is usually slightly acidic and
should change substantially with humidity. Medium term repeatability will
be good too, and long term repeatability could be calibrated with a
portable meter, and adjustment made to a preset pot. One advantage to this
crude device is that it will respond rapidly to changing humidity, and its
resistance could range widely enough to make it easy to avoid false alarms.
 
I have collected a huge amount of stepper motors and hobby motors from
CD Roms, DVD players, toys, Audio equipment and just about any item
that uses a motor. All motors are tested. If you are interested please
contact me at this email. address. NO MINIMUM ORDER and references are
available.
Please remove the word "_LITTLE" after the email .com
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On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:40:25 +0200, Frank Buss <fb@frank-buss.de>
wrote:

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

[...]
3' of fantastic soils, 45" of rain a year nice and evenly distributed
all year 'round in a constant drizzle, and everything grows where you
throw the seed, no digging needed. What could be better? ;)

Sounds great if you want to become a farmer :)
Click to expand...
Our family grows/raises most of the food we consume. It's nice
knowing where it all comes from and how it was treated and prepared.

I'm living near Cologne
centre, but a quiet back road near the Rhein. Just a rented flat and not
acres of grass and bushes around it, but supermarkets, stores, pubs,
restaurants, theaters, cinemas, parks etc., all within walking distance.
Click to expand...
I don't have all that within walking distance. It's a 5 minute drive
to the nearest hospital, for example, and 20 minutes drive to an
international airport (PDX.) But we do have a grocery store (not a
supermarket), a pub, a restaurant or two, and many, many parks all
within easy walking distance of home.

Okay. I'm having fun. I hope you don't mind if I post a few links to
pictures.

These pictures are from my own land, showing paths that proceed from
my home into the wooded parts of my property:

http://www.infinitefactors.org/misc/images/Home%20Trails.jpg
http://www.infinitefactors.org/misc/images/Home%20Trails%202.jpg

That will give you a flavor for the flora.

Mt. Hood rises up from sea level to about 11,300' and is about 15
miles from my home. Here is how it looks from a lake that is very
close to my home (in the summer):

http://www.infinitefactors.org/misc/images/Mt%20Hood.jpg

This water fall (among literally more than a hundred within a short
distance) is about a 15 minute drive from home.. over 600 feet:

http://www.infinitefactors.org/misc/images/Multnomah%20Falls.jpg

The Columbia River flows by Mt. Hood's northern base. This viewpoint
is actually closer to my home than the above falls -- about a 10
minute drive:

http://www.infinitefactors.org/misc/images/Crown%20Pt.jpg

All of the above is in relatively easy bicycling distance.

In Oregon, it is illegal to own or fence or otherwise control coastal
land. Some 400 miles of coastline is public land. The only state of
the USA that does this, I think. In any case, here is one photo of
what our coast partly looks like:

http://www.infinitefactors.org/misc/images/Boardman.jpg

Jon
 
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