Apple have stolen my ipad. Yes, this story now has an ending

In message <ng8vjg$c89$1@news.albasani.net>
AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:
I checked my e-mail files for purchases over the last ten years. Most
Apple products were bought directly from Apple at one of the two Apple
stores I live near. They had transaction numbers but no serial numbers.

Here's one from 2008:

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbl7ihvnn8i6gnh/Screenshot%202016-05-02%2020.22.44.png?dl=0>

Ever serialized purchase has the serial number on the receipt.

(That is to say, everyone Apple product bought in an Apple Store. The
online receipts don't have the serial number, but since they were
purchased with my Apple ID, there's no need, those devices are in my
profile automatically).

--
The King of Marigold was in the kitchen cooking breakfast for the Queen
The Queen was in the parlor playing piano for the children of the King
 
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

All Apple needs to do is to send that to one of the other
Apple IDs that Apple can see Don has used recently, not
to one that was only ever used to setup that particular
ipad all those years ago and was never used again.

the other apple ids aren't relevant.

Wrong when establishing that Don has always been the owner
of that particular ipad. That is in fact impossible to fake, unlike
a receipt with the serial number on it which is completely
trivial for even someone as stupid as you to fake.

> the apple id that locked the ipad is the only one that matters.

Wrong when establishing that Don has always been the owner
of that particular ipad. That is in fact impossible to fake, unlike
a receipt with the serial number on it which is completely
trivial for even someone as stupid as you to fake.

he doesn't remember the password to the apple id nor can he verify
email sent to it, so some *other* verification will be required,

And sending that verification to another Apple ID that Apple
knows has been used recently on that particular ipad is a MUCH
better way to verifying that Don has always owned that particular
ipad and still does because that can not be faked.

> which is an invoice.

Which is completely trivial for any thief to fake and so is completely
useless as verification that Don didn't steal that ipad.

> and that's exactly what happened.

You have no idea why Apple decided that the ipad had not been stolen.

he couldn't, so the next step is an invoice.

He always had that invoice. And an invoice is even easier to
fake than anything else, so proves nothing about ownership.

nonsense.

Your sig is sposed to be last with a line with just -- on it in front of it,
stupid.

a forged invoice is trivial to detect.

print up whatever you want, but once
they cross-reference it with the seller,

If they do that, there doesn't need to be a serial number on it, fuckwit.

Don always had that receipt that Apple could have done that with.

> it'll be clear it's a forgery

Not necessarily, the seller may not choose to
keep the records for that long or may have gone
bust and be impossible to check with now.

> and then you'll be in a lot more trouble than you already are.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

Mate of mine who does quite a bit of maintenance work on
laptops etc came across one that had clearly been stolen.

The cops couldn't have cared less and didn't want to know.

as i said before, the only people who find the verification process
to be a problem are those who benefit from stolen devices.

Even sillier than you usually manage. There are a great raft of
others who do too, most obviously with those who no longer
have the receipt for what they perfectly legally purchased, or
never had any for what they bought used, etc etc etc.

I have never ever got a single receipt for any of a great raft
of stuff that I have bought used, mostly from garage/yard sales.

The only thing I have ever had any paperwork for was a trailer for
which I had the usual transfer of registration for and I wouldn't have
even had that if it had not been registered at the time I bought it.

> honest people simply provide the necessary information

So did Don, fuckwit.

> and the problem is resolved.

It wasn't when Don did that.
 
In message <020520162245499384%nospam@nospam.invalid>
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <slrnnig2nk.21ra.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis
g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware.

Ever computer, iPad, iPhone, Hard Drive, router, and other serialized
items has had a receipt with the serial number for... oh, the last
twenty years at least.

longer than that.

any seller that doesn't keep track of who bought which serial numbers,
whether it's on the receipt or in their own database, is begging for
problems, not just asking for them.

I no longer have the receipt for my Bondi Blue iMac, or any of my
preformas, G3s, the IIci, Mac Classic, Mac SE FDHD, Apple //gs, Apple
//e, //c+, or ][+.

I know for a fact my receipt for the apple //e had the receipt since
that was required to get the new ROMs to upgrade to the //e Enhanced
with the 65C02 and some new ROMS (most notably, a new character set for
creating a sort of on screen GUI out of 'text').


--
Nihil est--in vita priore ego imperator Romanus fui.
 
On 5/2/16, 15:04, Don McKenzie wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

I checked my e-mail files for purchases over the last ten years. Most
Apple products were bought directly from Apple at one of the two Apple
stores I live near. They had transaction numbers but no serial numbers.
Peripheral products, mostly printers, were cheap and bought from third
party dealers, who didn't confirm the transactions by e-mail, and the
only record I had is credit card receipts, which I discarded long ago. I
bought a few items (including my very first Apple computer) from a now
much reduced dealer J & R, which as best I remember supplied only paper
receipts/credit card receipts, long ago discarded.


I presume the Apple transaction numbers could be cross-referenced to
serial numbers, but I have no experience of that. Of course, this is
only relevant to iPods, iPads, iPhones, and my Apple Watch, which are
subject to syncing. I presume that syncing can only work with the
relevant item, whose serial number is known to and detectable by Apple.
Apple sends me notices to initiate updating and upgrading my computer
hard- and software, and the App Store app also contains such notices.


I update my Apple password from time to time, and all updates and
upgrades have required only the current password, not the original.


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
 
In article <ng8vjg$c89$1@news.albasani.net>, AV3
<arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:

I presume the Apple transaction numbers could be cross-referenced to
serial numbers, but I have no experience of that.

they absolutely can, as can other companies.

Of course, this is
only relevant to iPods, iPads, iPhones, and my Apple Watch, which are
subject to syncing.

it's relevant to all products, apple or not.

I presume that syncing can only work with the
relevant item, whose serial number is known to and detectable by Apple.

syncing relies on the device id, not the serial number.

Apple sends me notices to initiate updating and upgrading my computer
hard- and software, and the App Store app also contains such notices.

that's based on what version the app store app sees.

I update my Apple password from time to time, and all updates and
upgrades have required only the current password, not the original.

don't forget your password, or you'll be in the same situation don was.
 
In article <slrnnig2nk.21ra.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware.

Ever computer, iPad, iPhone, Hard Drive, router, and other serialized
items has had a receipt with the serial number for... oh, the last
twenty years at least.

longer than that.

any seller that doesn't keep track of who bought which serial numbers,
whether it's on the receipt or in their own database, is begging for
problems, not just asking for them.
 
Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics will be launching a new Shopping Cart. We are hoping to migrate
across to this site on Sunday May 15th (all things going to plan!)
It will be located at the following link: https://www.shop-dontronics.com/

Existing site - http://www.dontronics-shop.com
 
On 2016-05-02, Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it by posting a masked version (for your own
security), similar to what I have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal
procedure is.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years
for software, as it often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

when I buy hard-disks from wholesalers the invoice has the serial
number, this makes things simple when considering warranty claims.

--
\_(ツ)_
 
In message <nga108$lc9$1@gonzo.alcatraz>
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
On 2016-05-02, Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it by posting a masked version (for your own
security), similar to what I have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal
procedure is.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years
for software, as it often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

when I buy hard-disks from wholesalers the invoice has the serial
number, this makes things simple when considering warranty claims.

When buying hard Drivers or mother boards or video cards or any sort of
product with a serial number, the stores scan the UPC code, and then the
bar code for the serial number. For a mother board, they will also scan
the barcodes for the MAC addresses of the network interfaces on the
motherboard.

And while the online Apple Store doesn't show you the serial number on
the default receipt, it does have it when you print an invoice.

The hard drives I bought from Amazon most recently don't have a SN on
the receipt, but that may be because they were sold by another company.

--
Can't seem to face up to the facts
Tense and nervous and I can't relax
Can't sleep, bed's on fire
Don't touch me I'm a real live wire
 
In article <dor7mfF4vq3U1@mid.individual.net>, Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A>
wrote:

Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad receipts, and
for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but the resellers
and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.

you're in denial.

not only do you refuse to accept responsibility for forgetting multiple
passwords, but you're going well out of your way to rationalize it.
 
On 5/2/16, 22:27, Lewis wrote:
In message<ng8vjg$c89$1@news.albasani.net
AV3<arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:
I checked my e-mail files for purchases over the last ten years. Most
Apple products were bought directly from Apple at one of the two Apple
stores I live near. They had transaction numbers but no serial numbers.

Here's one from 2008:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbl7ihvnn8i6gnh/Screenshot%202016-05-02%2020.22.44.png?dl=0

Ever serialized purchase has the serial number on the receipt.

(That is to say, everyone Apple product bought in an Apple Store. The
online receipts don't have the serial number, but since they were
purchased with my Apple ID, there's no need, those devices are in my
profile automatically).

I don't retain paper receipts after the credit card is paid off. I
presume the digital receipt contains all information necessary to prove
the transaction took place, but I have never had need of either.


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
 
David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
[...]
In your case, the purchase was NOT from an authorised Apple reseller, so
Apple has no way to track the sale of that iPad: they would have a
record of where it was originally sold, and possibly who it was sold to,
but that doesn't match up with your purchase from Becextech, because
Apple has no business dealings with that company and no record of
selling your iPad to them. It is likely that the iPad was originally
sold by Apple in a different country, then resold to you by Becextech in
Australia.

As far as Apple was concerned, your iPad was either a second hand
purchase, or potentially stolen then on-sold to you by a grey market
reseller.

No offense, but I find that a strange, premature and even false
conclusion.

As Don has mentioned several times, Becextech is *not* some small,
shady, company. They're all in the open, with many (thousands?)
products.

So Don's iPad was clearly *not* second hand (because he had a receipt
from Becextech) and *not* "potentially stolen".

Anyway, it's nice to see that your *actual* experience and information
shows that the "Official receipts always have a serial number!" claim
is the bollocks that we always said it was.

[...]
 
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5a> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

Not for an iPad, but if I remember and can be bothered and the victim
can be bothered, I'll check one for a recent iMac.

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.

The normal procedure is, it depends! IME (non Apple), most receipts do
not have a serial number, but some have. I think that there isn't any
kind of logic in it, other than that a certain supplier at a certain
time will probably have a somewhat consistent yes/no policy.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

Shame on you for not doing it the iLoon way! You've been making
'thieves' of all your customers!

Back in the real world: Why would companies have to go through all
these difficult product safety recall etc. procedures, when all this
information is supposedly readily available!?
 
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote

Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad
receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but
the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.

No they don't, mine has no serial number on it.
 
"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:dosbieFcj42U1@mid.individual.net...
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5a> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

Not for an iPad, but if I remember and can be bothered and the victim
can be bothered, I'll check one for a recent iMac.

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.

The normal procedure is, it depends! IME (non Apple), most receipts do
not have a serial number, but some have. I think that there isn't any
kind of logic in it, other than that a certain supplier at a certain
time will probably have a somewhat consistent yes/no policy.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

Shame on you for not doing it the iLoon way! You've been making
'thieves' of all your customers!

Back in the real world: Why would companies have to go through all
these difficult product safety recall etc. procedures, when all this
information is supposedly readily available!?

Because there is no requirement for stuff bought in person from
a retail outlet to have any contact details for the owner of the
device which has been purchased that way. And even when the
seller has the buyer's contact details, there is no guarantee that
the buyer will still contactable at that address or number anymore.
 
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:dosbieFcj42U1@mid.individual.net...
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5a> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

Not for an iPad, but if I remember and can be bothered and the victim
can be bothered, I'll check one for a recent iMac.

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.

The normal procedure is, it depends! IME (non Apple), most receipts do
not have a serial number, but some have. I think that there isn't any
kind of logic in it, other than that a certain supplier at a certain
time will probably have a somewhat consistent yes/no policy.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

Shame on you for not doing it the iLoon way! You've been making
'thieves' of all your customers!

Back in the real world: Why would companies have to go through all
these difficult product safety recall etc. procedures, when all this
information is supposedly readily available!?

Because there is no requirement for stuff bought in person from
a retail outlet to have any contact details for the owner of the
device which has been purchased that way. And even when the
seller has the buyer's contact details, there is no guarantee that
the buyer will still contactable at that address or number anymore.

My question was of course rethorical (hysterical? :)) and
tongue-in-cheek [1].

We mere mortals live in this imperfect world, not in this iLoon
parallel universe.

[1] But *theoretically* is would probably be possible for the majority
of iStuff and Android and (MS-)Windows devices.
 
In article <dosap4Fcdh3U1@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

In your case, the purchase was NOT from an authorised Apple reseller, so
Apple has no way to track the sale of that iPad: they would have a
record of where it was originally sold, and possibly who it was sold to,
but that doesn't match up with your purchase from Becextech, because
Apple has no business dealings with that company and no record of
selling your iPad to them. It is likely that the iPad was originally
sold by Apple in a different country, then resold to you by Becextech in
Australia.

As far as Apple was concerned, your iPad was either a second hand
purchase, or potentially stolen then on-sold to you by a grey market
reseller.

No offense, but I find that a strange, premature and even false
conclusion.

As Don has mentioned several times, Becextech is *not* some small,
shady, company. They're all in the open, with many (thousands?)
products.

So Don's iPad was clearly *not* second hand (because he had a receipt
from Becextech) and *not* "potentially stolen".

once again, apple received a phone call from someone who couldn't get
past activation lock.

said person didn't know the password to the apple id associated with
the device, did not know the answers to the security questions for the
apple id account, could not verify an email sent to the email on file
at apple and also provided an invoice that didn't have a serial number.

since *all* of those failed, the natural conclusion is to assume that
the person calling was *not* the legitimate owner, because if he was,
one or more of those would have been successful, and in fact, done
without even needing to call at all.

that's why apple wanted additional proof.

very simple.

Anyway, it's nice to see that your *actual* experience and information
shows that the "Official receipts always have a serial number!" claim
is the bollocks that we always said it was.

the serial number might not be on a printed receipt that is spit out of
the register to prevent fraud (for obvious reasons that are no doubt
beyond your comprehension), but the serial number is very definitely in
the store's inventory database and can easily be cross-referenced with
an order number.

often, only the last few digits of the serial number is printed on a
receipt, similar to how the last 4 digits of the credit card number
used is printed. again, this is for fraud prevention.

activating an ios device ties its serial number to the apple id used
for activation, so *apple* has a record of the serial number.

claiming that the serial number is never tracked is simply wrong.
 
In article <dosckvFcr3mU1@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad
receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but
the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.

No they don't, mine has no serial number on it.

it's in the seller's database and apple's database, at a minimum.
 
"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:030520161911078220%nospam@nospam.invalid...
In article <dosap4Fcdh3U1@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

In your case, the purchase was NOT from an authorised Apple reseller,
so
Apple has no way to track the sale of that iPad: they would have a
record of where it was originally sold, and possibly who it was sold
to,
but that doesn't match up with your purchase from Becextech, because
Apple has no business dealings with that company and no record of
selling your iPad to them. It is likely that the iPad was originally
sold by Apple in a different country, then resold to you by Becextech
in
Australia.

As far as Apple was concerned, your iPad was either a second hand
purchase, or potentially stolen then on-sold to you by a grey market
reseller.

No offense, but I find that a strange, premature and even false
conclusion.

As Don has mentioned several times, Becextech is *not* some small,
shady, company. They're all in the open, with many (thousands?)
products.

So Don's iPad was clearly *not* second hand (because he had a receipt
from Becextech) and *not* "potentially stolen".

once again, apple received a phone call from someone who couldn't get
past activation lock.

said person didn't know the password to the apple id associated with
the device, did not know the answers to the security questions for the
apple id account, could not verify an email sent to the email on file
at apple and also provided an invoice that didn't have a serial number.

since *all* of those failed, the natural conclusion is to assume
that the person calling was *not* the legitimate owner,

Completely stupid to assume that in fact, particularly when Apple
could see that his company name was in the Apple ID that had
originally been used to setup that ipad that he claimed he owned.

> because if he was, one or more of those would have been successful,

Even sillier than you usually manage with the RECEIPT for the ipad he had
bought which, like with hordes of others, didn't include the serial number.

and in fact, done without even needing to call at all.

that's why apple wanted additional proof.

More fool Apple when they could see that his company name
was part of the Apple ID that had originally been used to setup
that ipad all those years ago and were too stupid to send the
verification email to the Apple ID that had been used much
more recently on that ipad when he told them that he could
no longer remember the password for the original one.

> very simple.

More of your bare faced lies.

Anyway, it's nice to see that your *actual* experience and
information shows that the "Official receipts always have a
serial number!" claim is the bollocks that we always said it was.

the serial number might not be on a printed receipt that is spit
out of the register to prevent fraud (for obvious reasons that are
no doubt beyond your comprehension), but the serial number is
very definitely in the store's inventory database and can easily be
cross-referenced with an order number.

But the pair of call center fools who had originally dealt with
Don were too fucking stupid to check that with the seller.

often, only the last few digits of the serial number is printed
on a receipt, similar to how the last 4 digits of the credit card
number used is printed. again, this is for fraud prevention.

Never had that with a serial number, only with the card number.

activating an ios device ties its serial number to the apple id
used for activation, so *apple* has a record of the serial number.

And Apple has the record that Don chose to include his company
name in the Apple ID that was initially used to setup that ipad, so
there is no possibility what so ever that Don could have stolen that
ipad recently from whoever had setup that ipad all those years ago
and that what had actually happened was that Apple had fucked
up with the iOS update and had demanded that the original Apple
ID that had been used to setup that ipad all those years ago, and
had never been used again since, be used again and that there
was no possibility that the ipad had been stolen recently.

> claiming that the serial number is never tracked

No one ever did that, fuckwit.

> is simply wrong.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
 
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
Rod Speed<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad
receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but
the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.

No they don't, mine has no serial number on it.

it's in the seller's database and apple's database, at a minimum.

Irrelevant to Don's statement.
 

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top