Aldi Ł59 petrol generator and television

[Jamie]

David WE Roberts wrote:

"D. T. Green" <greendt@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:jtjhh2$doc$1@dont-email.me...

On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we
have heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is
running very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for
connecting to televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Has anybody any experience with one of these very cheap generators ?
(Only Ł59 ).

Also saying they are not suitable for sensitive electronic equipment;
would that just be the manufacturers covering themselves? Would
buying something like a *surge- protector* make it possible to use the
generator with a portable television?



Some of the extra money paind for more expensive generators goes towards
the extra electronics which ensure a stable a/c output similar to mains
current. This is generaly described as an inverter system

Believe the instructions.
It is not suitable.

There are warnings against these very cheap generators on caravan and
mobile home discussion fora, as they can damage the internal electrics
of the more sophisticated systems.

Cheers

Dave R
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn't use any crap devices that

couldn't handle a noisy or shaky power line.. Do you really think the
commercial power is a 100% ?

If the device can't handle a little frequency and voltage variation
with a little noise on it, then the device was designed as a cheap, get
it out the door garbage money maker.

P.S.

I have the 2000 Watt Peak generator that Aldi's has or did have. Yes
, it is a little noisy however, frequency only varies +/- 3 Hz from what
I could see and voltage was with in reason under load changes..

The wave form on it looked almost as good as my 5000 watt Honda
generator..

So putting that into prospective, I guess if you think the Aldi
generate is crap, maybe I shouldn't use my Honda either!


jamie

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

The last time I slept in a 'tent' was in the early '70s in Alaska.
Cold weather survival training.

Camping these days for me is done in 2-3 star hotels (i.e. Motel 6). I
can't afford 5 star.

I did something like that, except in the desert. I wasn't paying
attention, forgot to do a few things, and ended up dehydrated, with a
major sunburn, and infested with sand fleas.

Have you ever built a fire with frozen wood, or cut down small,
ice covered trees without an axe?

Not frozen, but certainly wet wood. I've been heating my house during
the winter with firewood for 39 years. At one point, I was cursed
with some soaking wet green firewood. Even mixed with dry wood it
didn't burn very well. It was better than freezing, so I eventually
learned how to start a fire with the stuff with a propane torch. I
also used an axe, hatchet, chain saw, bow saw, and table saw to
prepare the logs and kindling.

I've converted small trees into kindling by driving over them with a
bulldozer, but I suspect that's not what you were doing. How did you
prepare firewood from iced over trees? Cable saw? Swiss army knife?
Explosives? I would have just scrounged for dead fall branches on the
ground and left the wet live trees alone.

Anything already on the ground was under ice, and we were in fairly
heavy Alaskan forest on an Army base. Since it was survival training,
you weren't worried about a couple dozen to a hundred small trees when
there were 20+ 'victims' trying to not only stay alive, but get back to
main base without losing body parts.

When you needed firewood you picked a pine tree 4 - 6" in diameter,
turned your back to it and kicked it with the bottom of your heavy
arctic boot. The pine trees grew fast, and only on one side due to the
high winds. These were trees that would have been too bad for 'Charlie
Brown' to take home. ;-) The tree trunk would snap off about six inches
above ground. Then you would drag the entire tree to the fire and toss
it in. The flames were going about 60' into the air, but you could
barely feel the heat, six feet from the fire. Because of the low
temperature, the fire could burn out completely in minutes to the point
that you couldn't find a warm coal in the ashes. You could die in under
two minutes from exposure to the cold air and 0% humidity. What was
real fun was that you had to remove your arctic boots and put them in
your sleeping bag when you went to bed. If you didn't take them off, you
would lose the skin on your feet to blisters, and if you didn't put them
in the sleeping bag with you, you could lose your feet to frostbite when
you put them back on.


BTW, the remaining stump looked like it had been polished when the
tree broke off.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Yanik wrote:

When I was a kid,I read an old Argosy magazine(outdoorsman stuff) about how
the author would camp in wintertime in his shirtsleeves,no special cold
weather gear. He'd make a bed out of pine branches stripped from trees and
lay on that,it insulated him from the cold ground. So after Xmas,I got a
couple of discarded Xmas trees,stripped them,made a bed several inches
thick,and camped out in the backyard. It worked. All I had was a thin
sleeping bag,and a canvas leanto for cover. Wasn't cold at all,despite a
foot of snow in the yard.

BTW,pine cones light pretty easily,they're full of resins and turps,good
for starting fires. They burn hot.

The pine cones were all gone by the time they took us out for
survival training. They had fallen months before the early December
class at Ft. Greely. The trees had very few needles, due to the high
winds, and animals eating any they could reach. These trees were
nothing to write home about. They were mostly iced over trunks and some
branches.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jamie wrote:

David WE Roberts wrote:


"D. T. Green" <greendt@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:jtjhh2$doc$1@dont-email.me...

On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we
have heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is
running very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for
connecting to televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Has anybody any experience with one of these very cheap generators ?
(Only Ł59 ).

Also saying they are not suitable for sensitive electronic equipment;
would that just be the manufacturers covering themselves? Would
buying something like a *surge- protector* make it possible to use the
generator with a portable television?



Some of the extra money paind for more expensive generators goes towards
the extra electronics which ensure a stable a/c output similar to mains
current. This is generaly described as an inverter system

Believe the instructions.
It is not suitable.

There are warnings against these very cheap generators on caravan and
mobile home discussion fora, as they can damage the internal electrics
of the more sophisticated systems.

Cheers

Dave R
If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn't use any crap devices that
couldn't handle a noisy or shaky power line.. Do you really think the
commercial power is a 100% ?

If the device can't handle a little frequency and voltage variation
with a little noise on it, then the device was designed as a cheap, get
it out the door garbage money maker.

P.S.

I have the 2000 Watt Peak generator that Aldi's has or did have. Yes
, it is a little noisy however, frequency only varies +/- 3 Hz from what
I could see and voltage was with in reason under load changes..

The wave form on it looked almost as good as my 5000 watt Honda
generator..

So putting that into prospective, I guess if you think the Aldi
generate is crap, maybe I shouldn't use my Honda either!

No, you need a bigger one to electrocute yourself, Maynard. Those
small generators put out a crap waveform, and are intended for resistive
loads. That Honda has a cleaner output but nothing like the AC mains
used to, before SMPS became common.

 

[Rod Speed]

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a result
of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS designer
in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for every one of
you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their shit-street designs in
everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners. I see this crap every day
(as well as some good ones) and many of the designs do, as I said, work by
the skin of their teeth. If you throw mains at them that's covered in
spikes and other garbage, they *will* fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used on
the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC front
end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at 400 v.
Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow a lot of
overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated, the input
voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close to its
limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:27:17 -0500, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

will an 800 WATT generator keep a fridge going?

Yes. Most small camper refrigerators draw about 3A max at 12V. 36VA
is not going to cause much trouble for an alleged 800 watt generator.

However, there's a potential catch. Most generators will not run,
much less start, with the full rated load. The operating power is
usually somewhat less than the advertised output power. In addition,
some generators have two phase outputs. The rated power is for the
sum of the two phases power. That means each 117VAC load can only be
1/2 the advertised power. Caveat Emptor.

an 800 watt generator might not run the TV and the satellite
receiver[humor]....considering that 800 watts is maximum output(surge?),and
you can realistically expect only 400 watts from it,continuous.

For how long? The data sheets I've seen on real generators (i.e.
Honda) include derating specs at different loads. Typically, you can
run it at half power forever.

Incidentally, for multi-fuel generators, the rated spec is usually for
gasoline. However, if you're running propane or natural gas, the max
output is about 80% of the gasoline rating. Caveat Emptor 2.0.

I agree that TV,stereo,etc,is inappropriate for camping.
Camping is about ESCAPING all that stuff,enjoying nature,bugs and all.
Laptops on a camping trip?

Yep. I'm also addicted. I've tried twice to spend a weekend at home
without touching a computah or watching TV. Each time, I lasted about
8 hours. However, I do have a handy getaway. I live in a forest.
Behind my house is Fall Creek State Park, inhabited only by drug
growers, illegal campers, nosey critters, and various bugs that bite.
If I get fed up with civilization, I grab my pack and supplies, and
head for the hills. I've spent a few days on a mountain top watching
the clouds drift by. My usual incentive to return is running out of
potable water.

sheesh,why not just pitch a tent in your
backyard?

I did that when I was a kid. I went urban camping in the back yard on
the lawn. It was required for some obscure class I was taking. I
didn't get any sleep from the strange noises. Sneaking inside for a
bathroom visit was considered acceptable. Meals were catered by my
mother. Not much of a wilderness experience, but you have to start
somewhere.

then you can run an extension cord from your house to run all your stuff.

Only if the cord is approved for indoor/outdoor use. Check the label.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[gregz]

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:d2rtv7p2m3r8d33g205er5vr0s3mnmgkkp@4ax.com:

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:39:16 -0500, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:0b4rv7ldi6f6o6bqb82n3n9t934mgrpv6s@4ax.com:
I guess going camping with a TV is ok, as long as one leaves the
screaming kids, barking dogs, ATV's, motorcycles, and boom box at
home.

in today's digital ATSC TV world(USA),reception may not be possible
out in the boonies. better to buy a portable DVD player with LCD
screen.

You're behind the times a little. These daze, campers have satellite
receivers and dishes. OTA TV reception in the middle of nowhere tends
to be lousy.

yeah,I've seen RVs with satellite dishes...

The main purpose of the generator is not to run the TV. It's to keep
the 12V fridge alive. The generator usually has a 12v charger output,
which keeps the battery up, which runs the 12v fridge. For those with
really cheap generators, add an external battery charger. Few campers
have 12v chargers for their laptops, so there's another reason to run
the generator. Solar panels as chargers are also common, but are
rarely large enough to replace a generator.

It's been a very long time since I've gone tent camping. When I last
did that, we went past a "wilderness" trailer camp, which is
distinguished from a regular trailer camp site by the lack of hookups.
We could hear the multiple generators running for miles away. As we
approached the trailer camp site, we could hear a cacophany of full
blast television audio from some campers. We begged some supplies,
loaded up with drinkable water, and got as far away from that
nightmare as possible, which was not a trivial exercise in the dark.

Leave the generator and TV at home.


will an 800 WATT generator keep a fridge going?
an 800 watt generator might not run the TV and the satellite
receiver[humor]....considering that 800 watts is maximum output(surge?),and
you can realistically expect only 400 watts from it,continuous.

I agree that TV,stereo,etc,is inappropriate for camping.
Camping is about ESCAPING all that stuff,enjoying nature,bugs and all.
Laptops on a camping trip? sheesh,why not just pitch a tent in your
backyard?
then you can run an extension cord from your house to run all your stuff.

My 90's fridge only draws 200 watts, but 1500 watts in defrost. My little
generator will run my 5k btu air conditioner, but it running the generator
hard and uses a lot of gas, small tank.

Greg

 

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 11, 2:37 am, "D. T. Green" <gree...@mail.invalid> wrote:

On just buying a 800 watt 'two' stroke petrol generator from Aldi, we have
heard from someone who says that he has got one; and that his is running
very roughly, and is really noisy.

Also it says in the instructions that it is *not* suitable for connecting to
televisions or other sensitive electronic equipment.

Has anybody any experience with one of these very cheap generators ? (Only
59 ).

Also saying they are not suitable for sensitive electronic equipment; would
that just be the manufacturers covering themselves?  Would buying something
like a *surge- protector* make it possible to use the generator with a
portable television?

Maybe. A power line surge proved to be too much for the surge
protector my old Toshiba CRT TV was plugged into.

Could it be a private labelling of this Einhell generator? I found a
polyglot owners manual for it.

http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/100000-124999/110462-an-01-ml-STROMERZEUGER_BT_PG850_de_en_fr_cs_sk.pdf

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:54:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

I merely stated that if you abuse them, they have
a predisposition towards catastrophic failure (...)

Switchers fail gracefully. The output voltage goes to zero.

Not always.

(...)

I've read a fair quantity of your messages on this topic. All of them
are much like this one. It states your opinion, position, or
pontification. There is no corroborating information, no examples,
and no useful information. While you are certainly entitled to an
opinion, I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly
explain your position.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[Rod Speed]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

I merely stated that if you abuse them, they have
a predisposition towards catastrophic failure (...)

Switchers fail gracefully. The output voltage goes to zero.

Not always.

I've read a fair quantity of your messages on this topic.

I've read all of yours.

All of them are much like this one. It states your opinion, position,
or pontification. There is no corroborating information, no examples,

Yours in spades.

and no useful information.

Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie.

While you are certainly entitled to an opinion,

And you aren't, particularly with that
absolute claim you made at the top.

I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly explain your
position.

I did that with the basics on whether SMPSs give a damn
about the voltage within limits and the frequency in spades.

 

[Arfa Daily]

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem in
the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

** But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com

It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like DVD
players, to fail in this way. They are extremely susceptible to secondary
side filter cap failure - typically bulging and high ESR. This usually
results in the rail voltage dropping. Most of these supplies take their
control loop reference from just one of the output rails, and if it happens
to be the one that's got the bad cap on - often the case - then the supply
tries to crank it back up to the correct level, which results in all the
other rails going way up. This often results in destruction of LSIs
elsewhere in the item.

As a matter of interest, better quality multi-rail switchers used in some TV
sets, do have a form of 'crowbar' in that all of the rails are monitored for
output voltage, and if any become excessive, they trip a shutdown circuit on
the main supply control IC. The Vestel 17PWxx series that were used in a
number of manufacturer's TVs, are a good example of such.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a68n5kFbf7U1@mid.individual.net...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition
noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a result
of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS designer
in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for every one of
you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their shit-street designs in
everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners. I see this crap every day
(as well as some good ones) and many of the designs do, as I said, work
by the skin of their teeth. If you throw mains at them that's covered in
spikes and other garbage, they *will* fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used on
the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC
front end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at
400 v. Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow a
lot of overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated, the
input voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close to its
limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

OK. You can shut up and piss off now. I've lost all interest in you and
anything you have to say. Clearly, you are one of those know-it-all
dickheads that pop up on usenet from time to time.

Feel free to pop back for another conversation some time, though.

After you've learnt to spell would be good ...

Arfa

 

[Rod Speed]

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem in
the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.

It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like DVD
players, to fail in this way.

You have no idea that they did fail by overvoltage.

They are extremely susceptible to secondary side filter cap failure -
typically bulging and high ESR.

Doesn't mean that they failed by overvoltage, just bad caps.

This usually results in the rail voltage dropping. Most of these supplies
take their control loop reference from just one of the output rails, and
if it happens to be the one that's got the bad cap on - often the case

Another sweeping statement that can't be substantiated.

- then the supply tries to crank it back up to the correct level, which
results in all the other rails going way up. This often results in
destruction of LSIs elsewhere in the item.

Not even possible when it's the rail that
powers the LSIs that has the bad cap.

As a matter of interest, better quality multi-rail switchers used in some
TV sets, do have a form of 'crowbar' in that all of the rails are
monitored for output voltage, and if any become excessive, they trip a
shutdown circuit on the main supply control IC.

That's not a crowbar. A crowbar shorts out the rail like a real crowbar
would do.

The Vestel 17PWxx series that were used in a number of manufacturer's TVs,
are a good example of such.

But its not a crowbar.

 

[Rod Speed]

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition
noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a
result of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS
designer in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for
every one of you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their
shit-street designs in everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners. I
see this crap every day (as well as some good ones) and many of the
designs do, as I said, work by the skin of their teeth. If you throw
mains at them that's covered in spikes and other garbage, they *will*
fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used on
the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC
front end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at
400 v. Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow a
lot of overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated,
the input voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close
to its limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

OK. You can shut up and piss off now.

You can go and fuck yourself.

I've lost all interest in you and anything you have to say.

Yeah, fools like you hate it when you
nose is rubbed in your terminal stupiditys.

<reams of your puerile attempts at insults any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where they belong>

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a69943FbkaU1@mid.individual.net...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Repeating again, I don't see any evidence of an overvoltage problem in
the multitude of switchers that cross my bench.

I like switchers.

But you are an utter ass.

Of course. But I'm still right.

It is very common for the cheapo Chinese switchers used in items like DVD
players, to fail in this way.

You have no idea that they did fail by overvoltage.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about you stupid arsewipe.

They are extremely susceptible to secondary side filter cap failure -
typically bulging and high ESR.

Doesn't mean that they failed by overvoltage, just bad caps.

Can't read either, can you ?

This usually results in the rail voltage dropping. Most of these supplies
take their control loop reference from just one of the output rails, and
if it happens to be the one that's got the bad cap on - often the case

Another sweeping statement that can't be substantiated.

What the fuck would you know about it you half witted plank ? How many do
you repair. Oh yes, I forgot, you are an unemployed and unemployable fool

- then the supply tries to crank it back up to the correct level, which
results in all the other rails going way up. This often results in
destruction of LSIs elsewhere in the item.

Not even possible when it's the rail that
powers the LSIs that has the bad cap.

Again, you are a total fuckwit who clearly understands nothing about the
realities of electronic service

As a matter of interest, better quality multi-rail switchers used in some
TV sets, do have a form of 'crowbar' in that all of the rails are
monitored for output voltage, and if any become excessive, they trip a
shutdown circuit on the main supply control IC.

That's not a crowbar. A crowbar shorts out the rail like a real crowbar
would do.

Stupid little man. Do you not understand the function of single inverted
commas ? No, of course you don't, because you're fundamentally as thick as
kangaroo shit

The Vestel 17PWxx series that were used in a number of manufacturer's
TVs, are a good example of such.

But its not a crowbar.

You are a dopey twat who cannot even read properly. Now fuck off back under
your antipodean stone

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a699abFcleU1@mid.individual.net...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote

Wrong when the only downside of that generator is that
it may well not control the voltage and frequency of what
it generates very accurately. The SMPS won't give a damn.

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

For all you know, the output might be covered in crap like ignition
noise.

And a SMPS won't give a damn.

In which case, a lot of switchers will fail sooner or later.

Fantasy.

I don't know what your background is

Leaves yours for dead.

- I've never seen you on S.E.R. before so I guess you're here as a
result of the cross-posting. For all I know, you might be the best SMPS
designer in the world, and your efforts might be bomb-proof. But for
every one of you, there are a thousand Chinese sticking their
shit-street designs in everything from light bulbs to vacuum cleaners.
I see this crap every day (as well as some good ones) and many of the
designs do, as I said, work by the skin of their teeth. If you throw
mains at them that's covered in spikes and other garbage, they *will*
fail.

Fantasy.

It's not at all rare to see items such as TV sets that have been used
on the end of cheap inverters and generators, with either blown power
supplies, or corrupted EEPROMs.

Its nothing like as common as you originally claimed.

I would also point out that many cheap Chinese designs without a PFC
front end rated to 260 volts AC, have a single main filter cap rated at
400 v. Even with mains at the high end of 'normal', that doesn't allow
a lot of overhead. If the output of this generator is poorly regulated,
the input voltage to the power supply could easily take this cap close
to its limits.

But it doesn't just curl up and die when that happens.

In which case such a supply may well 'give a damn'.

Unlikely.

OK. You can shut up and piss off now.

You can go and fuck yourself.

I've lost all interest in you and anything you have to say.

Yeah, fools like you hate it when you
nose is rubbed in your terminal stupiditys.

reams of your puerile attempts at insults any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where they belong

Sad, sad little twat ...

Arfa
>

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> desperately attempted
to bullshit and insult its way out of its predicament and fooled
absolutely no one at all, as always.

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> desperately attempted
to bullshit and insult its way out of its predicament and fooled
absolutely no one at all, as always.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:19:01 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly explain your
position.

I did that with the basics on whether SMPSs give a damn
about the voltage within limits and the frequency in spades.

Yep. Too bad it was incomplete. Generators have an irritating habit
of producing distorted waveforms when loaded unevenly between phases.
This is fairly common with generators that have two phases, 180
degrees apart, for outputs. Load one at 400VA and look at the
waveform. It's fairly ugly.

The problem is that all switching supplies that actually comply with
some governments conducted radiation standard has a 50/60 Hz low pass
filter on the AC input. That's great for keeping the high frequency
hash from radiating out the power line, but not so great when
presented with an input waveform full of harmonics. It's not too
horrible, but it is a consideration. For example, if the input to the
switcher were a square wave, 1/3 of the power would be in the
harmonics. That power has to go somewhere. Some is reflected, but
most of it is dissipated in the input filter. At 400 VA, that's about
133 watts of smog.

With an unbalance load, most generators will have up to 5% of the
power in harmonics. It's worse for small generators because the cores
like to saturate at rated power output. At 400 VA (one phase), that's
about 20 watts dissipated. Some switchers can handle it, others
prefer to blow the input fuse, if there is an input fuse or breaker.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[Rod Speed]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote

I believe that you will be more effective if you kindly explain your
position.

I did that with the basics on whether SMPSs give a damn
about the voltage within limits and the frequency in spades.

Yep. Too bad it was incomplete.

Just like yours on how SMPSs fail was.

Generators have an irritating habit of producing distorted
waveforms when loaded unevenly between phases.

Irrelevant to the generator being discussed which can't do that.

This is fairly common with generators that have
two phases, 180 degrees apart, for outputs.

But the generator being discussed doesn't.

Load one at 400VA and look at the waveform. It's fairly ugly.

And you don't get that with the generator being discussed.

The problem is that all switching supplies that actually comply
with some governments conducted radiation standard has a
50/60 Hz low pass filter on the AC input. That's great for keeping
the high frequency hash from radiating out the power line, but not
so great when presented with an input waveform full of harmonics.

You don't get that with the generator being discussed.

It's not too horrible, but it is a consideration.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

For example, if the input to the switcher were a square wave,

It isnt with the generator being discussed.

1/3 of the power would be in the harmonics.

It isnt with the generator being discussed.

That power has to go somewhere.

Not with the generator being discussed it doesn't.

Some is reflected, but most of it
is dissipated in the input filter.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

At 400 VA, that's about 133 watts of smog.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

With an unbalance load,

Can't happen with the generator being discussed.

most generators will have up to 5% of the power in harmonics.

Not with the generator being discussed it doesn't.

It's worse for small generators because the cores
like to saturate at rated power output. At 400 VA
(one phase), that's about 20 watts dissipated.

Not with the generator being discussed it isnt.

Some switchers can handle it, others prefer to blow
the input fuse, if there is an input fuse or breaker.

Doesn't happen with the generator being
discussed driving the TV being discussed.