Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad a

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:00:51 -0500, krw wrote:

> It's their business. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Understood.

One security professional emailed me the following about the lack of DIY for this system:
"The system you have is a upper level system so if you can utilize it then that is good.
Radionics/Bosch never was intended as a DIY system.
They were always geared for the upper end market and are used in High Security systems.
Most banks, government divisions (including the FBI, Secret Service, Post office and the military use their equipment.
They used to be even tighter with releasing their documentation prior to being acquired by Bosch.

Regarding the CALL FOR SERVICE, that is normally a message that appears when the keypad does not receive any data from the control board for about two minutes.
You can confirm that by powering up one of your keypads with 12VDC only with no connection to the panel."

 

[tm]

"Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2013.11.28.03.13.25@is.invalid...

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:34:40 -0600, NightcrawlerÂŽ wrote:

As long as the voltage is correct, and the form factor fits where you
want to put it, that is your primary concern. Amp-hour rating should
be spec or larger. Terminals are not really an issue.

This is all good information.
I will order a battery, and a new battery-protection board, which,
I'm pretty sure, should solve the remaining problems.

I don't think we have proved the battery protection board is bad yet.

You should connect it up to the panel and see if the relay will pull in and
that you have DC voltage on the red and black battery leads.

Then install the new battery and see what the charging current looks like.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Danny D'Amico wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:21:02 -0600, NightcrawlerÂŽ wrote:

Not weird at all. The ground is electrically isolated from the
secondary of the transformer. What you are seeing is phantom
readings.

Thanks for the confirmation. I have no experience with this type
of transformer. I wonder why they even have the center lug, but,
maybe it's for other applications.

If I were a technician, it wouldn't have taken this long to
get a replacement transformer, so I would have been at this
stage within the first hour had I a new one in stock.

The 12V 5AH battery also appears to be low, so, I'll get
a new one on the net. The one thing I'm worried about is
the terminal sizes.

In car batteries, the "series" determines if the battery
will fit (e.g., terminals on the side, or on the top, etc.).

But I'm not sure *how* one scopes out prospective gel cells.
For example, here's an ELK which looks like it should fit:
http://www.surveillance-video.com/elk-06120.html?productid=elk-06120&channelid=BCOME

There are two sizes of terminals in that current range. 3/16" wide and
1/4" wide The 3/16" is common in low current applications, and the 1/4"
in UPS.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

You could probably purchase a DSC board and keypad to install in your
existing can, reusing the same wiring, switches and detectors. I think
there are several places on the web including eBay where you might get
one. I purchased a number of main boards only to install inside
generator transfer switches to monitor the generators. DSC makes pretty
good stuff. ^_^

http://www.dsc.com/

DO you remember brands like MOOSE and FBI?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:22:22 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

This is nothing new. I helped a friend start an alarm business
back in the mid '70s. Some distributors refused to sell to the
company, unless we signed a contract to spend at least $100,000
a year with them.

I'm sure it's not new. It's completely understandable. Do you
think McDonalds corp. will sell to you for a lousy $100,000 a
year?

I have no idea what a McDonalds franchise costs. These companies were
refusing to sell wire and door switches. Items that other companies
begged to sell us, and they carried the same brands.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:52:44 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:22:22 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

This is nothing new. I helped a friend start an alarm business
back in the mid '70s. Some distributors refused to sell to the
company, unless we signed a contract to spend at least $100,000
a year with them.

I'm sure it's not new. It's completely understandable. Do you
think McDonalds corp. will sell to you for a lousy $100,000 a
year?

I have no idea what a McDonalds franchise costs.

http://franchises.businessmart.com/how-much-does-a-mcdonalds-franchise-cost.php

"How Much Does a McDonald's Franchise Cost?" The McDonald's
Corporation requires a minimum of $250,000 of non-borrowed
personal resources to consider you for a franchise. In other
words you need $250,000 cash on hand to just start the
discussion process with McDonald's."

These companies were refusing to sell wire and door switches. Items that other
companies begged to sell us, and they carried the same brands.

Their business model. If you don't like it, buy from the companies
that were begging for your business. Some don't take their franchise
agreement seriously. Others would rather not risk their livelihood.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:52:44 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:22:22 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

This is nothing new. I helped a friend start an alarm business
back in the mid '70s. Some distributors refused to sell to the
company, unless we signed a contract to spend at least $100,000
a year with them.

I'm sure it's not new. It's completely understandable. Do you
think McDonalds corp. will sell to you for a lousy $100,000 a
year?

I have no idea what a McDonalds franchise costs.

http://franchises.businessmart.com/how-much-does-a-mcdonalds-franchise-cost.php

"How Much Does a McDonald's Franchise Cost?" The McDonald's
Corporation requires a minimum of $250,000 of non-borrowed
personal resources to consider you for a franchise. In other
words you need $250,000 cash on hand to just start the
discussion process with McDonald's."

I have nothing to discuss with them. I might go there twice a year.
There is at least one closed franchise near here. Boarded up for years.
It's next to a Lockheed Martin factory. A half dozen other fast food
places are empty, as well. One was only open two months before it
closed.

These companies were refusing to sell wire and door switches. Items that other
companies begged to sell us, and they carried the same brands.

Their business model. If you don't like it, buy from the companies
that were begging for your business. Some don't take their franchise
agreement seriously. Others would rather not risk their livelihood.

They dropped the minimums after we started buying from their
competition, but their prices were more than double what other vendors
wanted. Hell, we could buy it cheaper from the OEM, than from some of
obnoxious wholesalers. In fact, we could buy custom branded sensors for
less than their OTS inventory.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Tony Hwang]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Danny D'Amico wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:21:02 -0600, NightcrawlerÂŽ wrote:

Not weird at all. The ground is electrically isolated from the
secondary of the transformer. What you are seeing is phantom
readings.

You need ceter tap to do a full wave rectification with two diodes vs.
4 without center tap which is bridge rectification.

Thanks for the confirmation. I have no experience with this type
of transformer. I wonder why they even have the center lug, but,
maybe it's for other applications.

If I were a technician, it wouldn't have taken this long to
get a replacement transformer, so I would have been at this
stage within the first hour had I a new one in stock.

You did not have to use exact OEM one, any x-former with same spec.
would do. Only matter is physical dimension for fitment on the board.

The 12V 5AH battery also appears to be low, so, I'll get
a new one on the net. The one thing I'm worried about is
the terminal sizes.

Again no meed to get OEM one. Take the battery to battery shop, they
will give replacement with same rating and size. If terminal is
different size, you can just solder wires onto it. Or replace clips on
the wires.

In car batteries, the "series" determines if the battery
will fit (e.g., terminals on the side, or on the top, etc.).

But I'm not sure *how* one scopes out prospective gel cells.
For example, here's an ELK which looks like it should fit:
http://www.surveillance-video.com/elk-06120.html?productid=elk-06120&channelid=BCOME

There are two sizes of terminals in that current range. 3/16" wide and
1/4" wide The 3/16" is common in low current applications, and the 1/4"
in UPS.

 

On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 21:27:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:52:44 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:22:22 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

This is nothing new. I helped a friend start an alarm business
back in the mid '70s. Some distributors refused to sell to the
company, unless we signed a contract to spend at least $100,000
a year with them.

I'm sure it's not new. It's completely understandable. Do you
think McDonalds corp. will sell to you for a lousy $100,000 a
year?

I have no idea what a McDonalds franchise costs.

http://franchises.businessmart.com/how-much-does-a-mcdonalds-franchise-cost.php

"How Much Does a McDonald's Franchise Cost?" The McDonald's
Corporation requires a minimum of $250,000 of non-borrowed
personal resources to consider you for a franchise. In other
words you need $250,000 cash on hand to just start the
discussion process with McDonald's."


I have nothing to discuss with them. I might go there twice a year.
There is at least one closed franchise near here. Boarded up for years.
It's next to a Lockheed Martin factory. A half dozen other fast food
places are empty, as well. One was only open two months before it
closed.

Just stating the facts.

These companies were refusing to sell wire and door switches. Items that other
companies begged to sell us, and they carried the same brands.

Their business model. If you don't like it, buy from the companies
that were begging for your business. Some don't take their franchise
agreement seriously. Others would rather not risk their livelihood.


They dropped the minimums after we started buying from their
competition, but their prices were more than double what other vendors
wanted. Hell, we could buy it cheaper from the OEM, than from some of
obnoxious wholesalers. In fact, we could buy custom branded sensors for
less than their OTS inventory.

So where's the beef?

 

[G. Morgan]

Danny D'Amico Wrote:

Doesn't anyone on the alarm newsgroup know a pass-through supplier?

It is a pain in the ass to become a Bosch (Radionics) dealer. The alarm
companies that "pass" their standards; and are in a area that doesn't
have too much competition from other Bosch dealers get the seal of
approval to be a certified dealer.

You won't find a "certified dealer" selling parts outright, as you seem
to know. However, there are ways to get parts. Most alarm companies
that are not dealers buy through a competitor for parts. Since you can't
go that route, there are online sites that sell parts.

I did a quick Google search and found one such outlet in 30 seconds. I'll
just post the 1st hit, I have no idea who they are nor have I done
business with them- --- it's just an example. I'm sure you can find more
if I found one that fast!

Example:
http://obsoleteradionics.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=772





--

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin

 

[The Daring Dufas]

On 12/1/2013 6:46 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

You could probably purchase a DSC board and keypad to install in your
existing can, reusing the same wiring, switches and detectors. I think
there are several places on the web including eBay where you might get
one. I purchased a number of main boards only to install inside
generator transfer switches to monitor the generators. DSC makes pretty
good stuff. ^_^

http://www.dsc.com/


DO you remember brands like MOOSE and FBI?

Yep, I installed a lot of them and if you didn't have a tamper switch on
the keypad, you could pop the cover and disarm the system without any
special tools. It was almost as easy as disarming a n/o key switch
that lacked a tamper. ^_^

TDD

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/1/2013 6:46 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

You could probably purchase a DSC board and keypad to install in your
existing can, reusing the same wiring, switches and detectors. I think
there are several places on the web including eBay where you might get
one. I purchased a number of main boards only to install inside
generator transfer switches to monitor the generators. DSC makes pretty
good stuff. ^_^

http://www.dsc.com/


DO you remember brands like MOOSE and FBI?


Yep, I installed a lot of them and if you didn't have a tamper switch on
the keypad, you could pop the cover and disarm the system without any
special tools. It was almost as easy as disarming a n/o key switch
that lacked a tamper. ^_^

The real fun was getting the phone company to install a properly
wired RJ31X. It was a couple years before they were available through
the alarm suppliers, so it cost the customer $150 to have Ohio Bell
install it wrong. Then we would have to rewire it so the dialer could
seize the line. Some ID10Ts didn't even wire the switch, they simply
daisy chained the wires so the phones would work. Another problem was
the early battery chargers were set too high and would destroy the Gel
Cell in a year.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

On 12/4/2013 10:58 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/1/2013 6:46 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

You could probably purchase a DSC board and keypad to install in your
existing can, reusing the same wiring, switches and detectors. I think
there are several places on the web including eBay where you might get
one. I purchased a number of main boards only to install inside
generator transfer switches to monitor the generators. DSC makes pretty
good stuff. ^_^

http://www.dsc.com/


DO you remember brands like MOOSE and FBI?


Yep, I installed a lot of them and if you didn't have a tamper switch on
the keypad, you could pop the cover and disarm the system without any
special tools. It was almost as easy as disarming a n/o key switch
that lacked a tamper. ^_^


The real fun was getting the phone company to install a properly
wired RJ31X. It was a couple years before they were available through
the alarm suppliers, so it cost the customer $150 to have Ohio Bell
install it wrong. Then we would have to rewire it so the dialer could
seize the line. Some ID10Ts didn't even wire the switch, they simply
daisy chained the wires so the phones would work. Another problem was
the early battery chargers were set too high and would destroy the Gel
Cell in a year.

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^

TDD

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^

That depended on the type of equipment at the local CO. Touch Tone
phones had to be modified to work with the 1920s designed CO equipment
in my home town before the DTMF to pulse converter would work. They
really went whole hog in their conversion. Only 100 DTMF lines were made
available, out of 30,000 numbers.

We looked into manufacturing some alarm equipment, but the
manufacture's liability insurance was over $1,000,000 a year at that
time.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

On 12/5/2013 6:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^



That depended on the type of equipment at the local CO. Touch Tone
phones had to be modified to work with the 1920s designed CO equipment
in my home town before the DTMF to pulse converter would work. They
really went whole hog in their conversion. Only 100 DTMF lines were made
available, out of 30,000 numbers.

We looked into manufacturing some alarm equipment, but the
manufacture's liability insurance was over $1,000,000 a year at that
time.

Well heck, what can I say, I grew up in Alabamastan. The most advanced
thing to come out of my province was this little space program thingy. ^_^

TDD

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^



That depended on the type of equipment at the local CO. Touch Tone
phones had to be modified to work with the 1920s designed CO equipment
in my home town before the DTMF to pulse converter would work. They
really went whole hog in their conversion. Only 100 DTMF lines were made
available, out of 30,000 numbers.

We looked into manufacturing some alarm equipment, but the
manufacture's liability insurance was over $1,000,000 a year at that
time.

Well heck, what can I say, I grew up in Alabamastan. The most advanced
thing to come out of my province was this little space program thingy. ^_^

It didn't 'come out', it ESCAPED!!! ;-)

I spent a couple decades at Ft. Rucker, but the US Army claims it was
only nine months.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

On 12/5/2013 5:39 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^



That depended on the type of equipment at the local CO. Touch Tone
phones had to be modified to work with the 1920s designed CO equipment
in my home town before the DTMF to pulse converter would work. They
really went whole hog in their conversion. Only 100 DTMF lines were made
available, out of 30,000 numbers.

We looked into manufacturing some alarm equipment, but the
manufacture's liability insurance was over $1,000,000 a year at that
time.

Well heck, what can I say, I grew up in Alabamastan. The most advanced
thing to come out of my province was this little space program thingy. ^_^


It didn't 'come out', it ESCAPED!!! ;-)

I spent a couple decades at Ft. Rucker, but the US Army claims it was
only nine months.

You aired up the tires on the choppers? ^_^

TDD

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/5/2013 5:39 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^



That depended on the type of equipment at the local CO. Touch Tone
phones had to be modified to work with the 1920s designed CO equipment
in my home town before the DTMF to pulse converter would work. They
really went whole hog in their conversion. Only 100 DTMF lines were made
available, out of 30,000 numbers.

We looked into manufacturing some alarm equipment, but the
manufacture's liability insurance was over $1,000,000 a year at that
time.

Well heck, what can I say, I grew up in Alabamastan. The most advanced
thing to come out of my province was this little space program thingy. ^_^


It didn't 'come out', it ESCAPED!!! ;-)

I spent a couple decades at Ft. Rucker, but the US Army claims it was
only nine months.



You aired up the tires on the choppers? ^_^

No, I maintained the WeatherVision system that provided weather data
to the pilot ready rooms, and delivered the base ETV programs to their
classrooms. We were only allowed 15 minutes downtime before they shut
down the airfields. Up to 17 of them. I also repaired a couple RADAR
systems when they were short on techs.

The only thing that was inflated on a chopper were the pilots. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[The Daring Dufas]

On 12/6/2013 5:21 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/5/2013 5:39 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Back in the 70's I made my own circuit boards on the kitchen table so I
could build my own solid state alarm controls. Most of what was around
was the old reverse polarity on a pair going directly to a central
station like the police/fire department. ^_^



That depended on the type of equipment at the local CO. Touch Tone
phones had to be modified to work with the 1920s designed CO equipment
in my home town before the DTMF to pulse converter would work. They
really went whole hog in their conversion. Only 100 DTMF lines were made
available, out of 30,000 numbers.

We looked into manufacturing some alarm equipment, but the
manufacture's liability insurance was over $1,000,000 a year at that
time.

Well heck, what can I say, I grew up in Alabamastan. The most advanced
thing to come out of my province was this little space program thingy. ^_^


It didn't 'come out', it ESCAPED!!! ;-)

I spent a couple decades at Ft. Rucker, but the US Army claims it was
only nine months.



You aired up the tires on the choppers? ^_^


No, I maintained the WeatherVision system that provided weather data
to the pilot ready rooms, and delivered the base ETV programs to their
classrooms. We were only allowed 15 minutes downtime before they shut
down the airfields. Up to 17 of them. I also repaired a couple RADAR
systems when they were short on techs.

The only thing that was inflated on a chopper were the pilots. ;-)

Were there girl pilots flying choppers when you were there? You don't
want to dis your girlfriend if she pilots an Apache. ^_^

TDD

 

[Tony Hwang]

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/6/2013 10:43 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Tony Hwang wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/6/2013 8:45 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


This was the early '70s and they were training medivac
pilots for
Vietnam, so there were no female pilots at the time. Women were not
allowed in combat zones back then. The air was pumped into their
egos to
made them crazy and brave enough to fly into areas where the enemy
would
shoot down a medical copter. The only girls around Rucker back then
were hookers or underage girls who would fool a GI into sex, then
make
them sign over half their pay (For their entire time they remained in
the service) to keep from being charged with rape. Some were getting
half the pay from over a dozen GIs.

Sounds like the welcome committee, provided by
our overseas allies (not!).


They were the reason the military showed all those damned VD
films.
'Camp Followers' have been around, since the first armies existed.


Hi, Mike
Were you in 'Nam during that time? Telling things from word of mouth or
from real real life experience?

My orders to Vietnam were changed to Alaska at the last minute. The
TV station I was to work at was over run about two weeks after I would
have arrived, and it's very likely I wouldn't be here since most of the
staff was killed. I got what was left of a 5 KW Gates VHF TV transmitter
for parts at the station in Alaska.

I had several underage girls try to trick me into bed while stationed
at Ft. Rucker. They used a lot of makeup, and some guys fell for it.
The worst part was that their families were making them prostitute
themselves because the parent or parents were too lazy to work. Some of
the girls were just 13. A couple of the other soldiers kept track of
who they were, and warned you they were minors. Still, a lot of guys
were screwed out of half of their pay, until they retired or didn't
re-enlist.



You must be careful of girls from LA, Lower Alabama. ^_^

TDD

Hi,
I heard they are like alligators?