Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad a

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:04:11 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

But, the board should only cost about $100 so it's not all that bad
to just replace it. Bosch says they have plenty in stock, so, all I
have to do is find someone who will sell them to me as a pass through:
Click to expand...

I can get the board for $104 but it's out of stock.
The retail is $169, I'm told.
So, now, all I need to do is find the board in that price range
from a "pass through" guy who has a Bosch agreement.

You'd think this would be the easy part! :)
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:13:30 -0800, Oren wrote:

> Tell them you are from the "government".

Wow. Gotta try that trick!
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:04:55 -0500, tm wrote:

Where are you located?

Maybe someone on this list with electronic skills can take a look at it and
maybe repair the board(s).
Click to expand...

Silicon Valley, of all places. :)

I find it hard to believe THREE things would go bad at once.

I can run rudimentary tests on the D2212B board, but, what
I need to do is read all the PDFs I found to see if any
offer advice as to whether there is a RESET.

There's a reset button on the wall controllers,
but, they don't power up with the battery in place
so, *something* is wrong.

If it's a simple board reset, that's what I'll look for first.
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:13:57 -0500, krw wrote:

> Um, call someone who knows what they're doing?

Is that how Alt.Home.Repair works?
Is that how Alt.Security.Alarms works?
Is that how Sci.Electronics.Repair works?

Call someone who knows what they're doing?
That's why I'm asking here.

You guys are supposed to know what you're doing!

:)
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:46:54 -0800, Oren wrote:

> ...but most everything does center around the dollar

After a half dozen phone calls today, I see that Bosch has their distributors
and dealers locked up.

They won't even quote a price, even though they have plenty of these
boards in stock (it's the most common board, according to one guy).

The trick, just as it was with garage door torsion springs, is to find
the "pass through" supplier, like Dan Musick of DDM fame.

Doesn't anyone on the alarm newsgroup know a pass-through supplier?
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:

Why wouldn't the wired and wireless alarm devices on the doors
and windows be compatible with *any* manufacturer?
Click to expand...

I'm not an accountant, but I suspect it has something to do with the
dollar bill? $
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:10:17 -0500, krw wrote:

You can't be serious. Debugging electronics by long distance is
difficult, at best, and impossible if the person at the other end is
completely helpless.
Click to expand...

My main question is *where* can I find a "pass through" alarm servicing
company that will sell me just the board for the $105 it's worth.

This guy can't find the boards (I talked to him personally):
http://obsoleteradionics.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=816

Nobody will sell them to him.
Yet, Bosch told me that they have plenty in stock.

So, it's only a question of finding the right "pass through" guy.

I'm hoping at least one person on this thread knows that answer
since I don't.
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:09:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

> Did you call or check with Grainger, locally

When I saw that suggestion, I ran a search at Grainger for D2212B:
http://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=d2212b

But, nothing came up.

Then I searched alarm systems, and only the sensors came up.
I didn't call them though.

I'll call 'em tomorrow, because, well, because huckleberries are
found where they are, and not where I might think they are.
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:13:04 -0500, krw wrote:

> Why bother quoting it if they can't sell it to you.

My logic in asking would be the same as my friend asking
me how much my cellphone cost. I could still quote the
price even if I had no intention of selling it to him.

They all told me exactly the same thing. If they told
me the price, they would be breaking their legal agreement
with the manufacturer.

So, one thing I've learned here is that Bosch sure knows
how to lock up a market. I'm pretty sure I will have a
source by tomorrow though, as I have a few leads pending
from my phone calls.
 
Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 08:41:54 -0800, doug wrote:

You will need keypads to match the replacement board, the sensors should be
OK although you may have to change the EOL resistors (if they are used).

If you have any 2 wire smoke detectors you may have to check compatibility
with the new panel.

I do have smoke alarms but don't know how they're wired.

Likewise, I have motion detectors and mostly hard-wired door/window
switches, but some are wireless (the repair ones mostly).

I called a few outfits today looking for the D2212B(LT) control board:
http://www.alarmhow.net/manuals/Radionics/D2212/

Apparently Bosch (who bought Radionics) won't sell to a consumer, so I'll
need to get the D2212B board from either a distributor or dealer.

They retail about $100 to $125 but they're almost all out of stock on
the web pages that I've found them listed.

If I buy a new board that is not the D2212B, am I to conclude I *must*
go with Bosch/Radionics since I do have wireless devices?
Click to expand...
Hmmm,
If the control board does not solve the problem, then what?
 
Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:03:16 -0800, trader4@optonline.net wrote:


I would not replace just the board, unless you can find
the exact replacement at a good price. I would replace the
alarm panel.

Replacing the alarm panel is fine by me, but, I spoke to someone
at Bosch who said that the "frequencies are different" for each
manufacturer.

Is that true?

Seems to me that an alarm system as a simple job. If the switch
is open, ring the alarm.

Why wouldn't the wired and wireless alarm devices on the doors
and windows be compatible with *any* manufacturer?

Is it true that only a Bosch/Radionics panel will work with
Bosch/Radionics controllers and Bosch/Radionics switches
and motion and smoke detectors?
Click to expand...
Hi,
You are thinking analog, now most any thing is digital. Even reelays
are solid state devies, no electro mechanical things.
 
Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:46:54 -0800, Oren wrote:

I'm not an accountant, but I suspect it has something to do with
the dollar bill? $

You're not kidding!

I called Bosch/Radionics at 800-538-5807 who told me they have plenty
of D2212B(LT) boards in stock (the LT, they told me, simply means it
comes without the external transformer in the kit).

But they can't sell them to me. They told me to go to Anixer or ADI.

So, I call Anixer at 925-469-8500, who says they can't sell the board
to me, due to their legal agreements. I have to get it from a contractor
as a "pass-through" (whatever that means).

So, this seems to be the path of the board:
Bosch/Radionics sells it to Anixer who sells it to the pass-through
contractor who sells it to me.

I wonder what the markup is each time?

Anyway, now I am looking for a "pass though" contractor, whatever that
means. I mean, I realize it's an "installer"; but, I don't want an
installer. I want a pass-through guy to just send me the board.

What do I google for?
(The Anixer guys couldn't tell me.)

Now for the ADI guys ... 800.233.6261 ... ... they won't sell it to
me either. I need a contractor's license. Sheesh.

It's getting to be harder to get a stinkin' alarm system replacement
board than it was to get garage door torsion springs! :)

Does anyone know how I can find a "pass through" contractor?
Click to expand...
Hi,
Run an ad on Kijiji saying you are looking for an alarm tech who could
help your situation. If some one respond, deal is no fix, no pay.
Lot of legit guys do a side job when he is off regular work.
I am lucky if I had a situation like that, just phone my old buddies
still on the job. They will send some one to help me out or give me some
thing I need. I retired from Honeywell. They have building protection
division.
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:49:47 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:46:54 -0800, Oren wrote:

I'm not an accountant, but I suspect it has something to do with
the dollar bill? $

You're not kidding!

I called Bosch/Radionics at 800-538-5807 who told me they have plenty
of D2212B(LT) boards in stock (the LT, they told me, simply means it
comes without the external transformer in the kit).

But they can't sell them to me. They told me to go to Anixer or ADI.

So, I call Anixer at 925-469-8500, who says they can't sell the board
to me, due to their legal agreements. I have to get it from a contractor
as a "pass-through" (whatever that means).

So, this seems to be the path of the board:
Bosch/Radionics sells it to Anixer who sells it to the pass-through
contractor who sells it to me.

I wonder what the markup is each time?

Anyway, now I am looking for a "pass though" contractor, whatever that
means. I mean, I realize it's an "installer"; but, I don't want an
installer. I want a pass-through guy to just send me the board.

What do I google for?
(The Anixer guys couldn't tell me.)

Now for the ADI guys ... 800.233.6261 ... ... they won't sell it to
me either. I need a contractor's license. Sheesh.

It's getting to be harder to get a stinkin' alarm system replacement
board than it was to get garage door torsion springs! :)

Does anyone know how I can find a "pass through" contractor?
Click to expand...

Some things are proprietary; only sold to those in the specific trade.

I went through this at work one time.

Find your local <http://www.grainger.com> store.

Ask if they have what you need or if they can order it.

Tell them you are from the "government". Pay in cash using; say,
Forestry Service or some such.

They will sell under that account with cash money.

Example: I stated my agency, which did not have an account, but the
guy found another agency and sold it to me using that account for a
cash purchase.

Worth a try...
 
Yes. Voltage spike, lightning strike, leg dropped across from power
company, or some moron accidentally touching the neutral in the breaker box
to the other leg of the incoming power. They can cause both to fail. All
are sudden over voltage conditions.


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:27:52 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:13:30 -0800, Oren wrote:

Tell them you are from the "government".

Wow. Gotta try that trick!
Click to expand...

I was being honest. To save time I went downtown and bought the
"proprietary" part (restricted to the trade).

The electrician could have just as well done the same thing. The part
came from my office budget, so I went because I needed the electrician
on the job - nothing from his budget.

Took cash issued from the business office cashier :)
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:54:56 -0700, Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>If the control board does not solve the problem, then what?

Um, spend more money?
 
"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:l70glr$9s9$1@speranza.aioe.org...
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:46:54 -0800, Oren wrote:

I'm not an accountant, but I suspect it has something to do with
the dollar bill? $

You're not kidding!

I called Bosch/Radionics at 800-538-5807 who told me they have plenty
of D2212B(LT) boards in stock (the LT, they told me, simply means it
comes without the external transformer in the kit).

But they can't sell them to me. They told me to go to Anixer or ADI.

So, I call Anixer at 925-469-8500, who says they can't sell the board
to me, due to their legal agreements. I have to get it from a contractor
as a "pass-through" (whatever that means).

So, this seems to be the path of the board:
Bosch/Radionics sells it to Anixer who sells it to the pass-through
contractor who sells it to me.

I wonder what the markup is each time?

Anyway, now I am looking for a "pass though" contractor, whatever that
means. I mean, I realize it's an "installer"; but, I don't want an
installer. I want a pass-through guy to just send me the board.

What do I google for?
(The Anixer guys couldn't tell me.)

Now for the ADI guys ... 800.233.6261 ... ... they won't sell it to
me either. I need a contractor's license. Sheesh.

It's getting to be harder to get a stinkin' alarm system replacement
board than it was to get garage door torsion springs! :)

Does anyone know how I can find a "pass through" contractor?
Click to expand...

Where are you located?

Maybe someone on this list with electronic skills can take a look at it and
maybe repair the board(s).
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:02:38 -0500, tm wrote:

You should peel off the double sided tape on the LV Disconnect board and see
if any track has been damaged.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that advice. The sticky tape was covering the traces:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7345/11061234756_3a7bb08f86_o.gif

So, following your advice, I peeled it mostly off, and looked with a
magnifying glass as you had suggested:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/11061138385_441b250d61_o.gif

The 1,000uF 35V capacitor leads are burnt a bit, but, it could have been a
replacement cap for all I know, as the cap is not shorted nor is it an open
(it's about 350 ohms steady).
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7450/11061137965_035e7abf80_o.gif

However, the fact is that this sequence shows *something* is wrong with
that D135A battery-protection board:

1. The battery is 13.31V
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3780/11016175513_af16f7c34e_o.gif

2. Connecting this way is 13.31V:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/11016174693_48beeeeed8_o.gif

3. But, connecting this way is 0V:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3786/11016128584_20e6cba24f_o.gif
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:44:07 -0600, NightcrawlerÂŽ wrote:

> Ditch the old and get the new. Many available:

Thanks. If it comes to that, I'll start fresh.
I have 24 zones to deal with though ...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3756/11061237796_150cc3544f_o.gif
 
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:07:16 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

> What if the new board blows up when replaced?

That's why I only want to spend the $104 to replace it.
It *does* have overload circuit protection besides.

> Are you planning to protect it some how from that occurring?

I've done plenty of smoke tests in my life.
This will be one of them.

BTW, looking at arrow marking on diode
can yu tell which direction current electron or current flows?
Can you tell which lead is the cathode or anode?
Click to expand...

Heh heh ... here is a board I built many years ago to test
impedence (j omega stuff). I wired a diode to house current!
You'll notice the diodes. Particularly, you'll notice that the
nichrome wire resistor has the same impedance as the the capacitor.
(I couldn't find an inductor of a large enough size.)
FRONT: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/11061412564_d241b67f1e_o.gif
BACK: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3800/11061387306_4b928f65c1_o.gif

Also notice this circuit, where I used 555 timers (I think that's what
I used), way back in the 80's, to measure capacitance and resistance
simply by counting the flash rate ...
FRONT: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7362/11061411704_cf3e84efa3_o.gif
BACK: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/11061410864_5dfa50a070_o.gif

I did those circuits in the early 80's but, of course I know
about the shape of the diode curve and which is the anode and
which is the cathode.
http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/03256.png

Everyone knows this basic stuff... even we accountants.
 
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