Advice requested Whirlpool Duet Sport Washing Machine "poppe

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:45:36 -0700, Oren wrote:

I'm talking about the washer control panel. Look behind it for
evidence of scorched areas. Directly behind the start / cancel button
pads.

I tried removing that panel, but they must have put the NSA wire tap
there because I can't figure out how to remove that front panel yet.
http://v52i.imgup.net/frontpanel5fd7.gif

What I need to find are disassembly instructions for the Whirlpool
WFW8410SW.

 

[Charles Bishop]

In article <nflbgj$d2d$1@news.mixmin.net>,
Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:49:33 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

Did your wife smell anything burning. All these newfangled
electronically controlled appliances have components that contain "Magic
Smoke" which is necessary for the electronics to operate. When the MS
escapes, the appliance stops working. The age of your appliance could
mean that an electronic component called an "electrolytic capacitor" has
failed. Unfortunately, manufacturers often save a few cents on parts by
purchasing components that just meet the requirements to make the unit
work. The bane of modern electronic devices is the inexpensive
electrolytics that manufacturers seem to be fond of using. Anyone who
works with electronics can spot a failed electrolytic capacitor because
it has swelled or is leaking. Here's a video of a fellow replacing some
failed electrolytic capacitors in a TV set. This will give you some idea
of what to look for on your washer's control board or power supply. ^_^


There was absolutely no smell, although we used to blow up electrolytic
caps (the blue unipolar water tank type) by sticking them in outlets in
physics class and then waiting for some unsuspecting student to turn
the lights on in the Physics lab - and I don't remember any smell at
that time.

Why were the outlets and the lights on the same circuit?

We had power strips on the work benches that were turned on when you
came in to work in the morning. It would have worked ther.


--
charles

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:53:48 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

> Why were the outlets and the lights on the same circuit?

I don't remember if it was one switch or two.
I remember that the switch was just inside the doorway to the lab.
So, it was usually turned on by the first person who entered the lab.

The lab itself had these long countertops down the length of the lab.
At about eye level were the outlets.
The caps we stuck in the outlets and I "do" remember the labs being
dark when nobody was in there (even then, we were aware someone could
be hurt but we didn't worry about it because we associated the darkness
with nobody being in there). < yes, we were kids >

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:40:42 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

The lab itself had these long countertops down the length of the lab.
At about eye level were the outlets.
The caps we stuck in the outlets and I "do" remember the labs being
dark when nobody was in there (even then, we were aware someone could
be hurt but we didn't worry about it because we associated the darkness
with nobody being in there). < yes, we were kids

PS: Don't remind me the time we took nitric acid, as I recall, and
poured it into beakers containing iodine crystals and then dried it with
either ether or alcohol (as I recall) and then painted anything we wanted
e.g., the chemistry lab countertops, with the wet (stable) nitrogen
tri-iodide paste.

When that stuff dries, it's so unstable, even a fly landing on it
will cause it to explode (little purple cloud bursts sporadically
popping all over the place!).

< yes, we were kids once >

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:42 +0100, MJC wrote:

The recipe I used (and the only one I've heard of) uses ammonia as a
source of nitrogen, not acid.

I could be remembering it wrong as it was a few decades ago.
It was chem lab, so, there was everything available.

We may have used the nitric acid with the cotton balls ...

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:03:54 PM UTC-4, Danny DiAmico wrote:

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:42 +0100, MJC wrote:

The recipe I used (and the only one I've heard of) uses ammonia as a
source of nitrogen, not acid.

I could be remembering it wrong as it was a few decades ago.
It was chem lab, so, there was everything available.

We may have used the nitric acid with the cotton balls ...

Nitric acid, but glacial sulphuric acid as well to pull out the water formed as a byproduct. The making of nitrocellulose (gun cotton) is more dangerous than the using of it, for the most part.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[MJC]

In article <nfndb5$nut$2@news.mixmin.net>, dannydiamico@yahoo.com
says...

PS: Don't remind me the time we took nitric acid, as I recall, and
poured it into beakers containing iodine crystals and then dried it with
either ether or alcohol (as I recall) and then painted anything we wanted
e.g., the chemistry lab countertops, with the wet (stable) nitrogen
tri-iodide paste.

The recipe I used (and the only one I've heard of) uses ammonia as a
source of nitrogen, not acid.

Mike.

 

[Jon Elson]

Danny DiAmico wrote:

The ground straps seem to have good contact, so, I think it's
the MMU or the CCU but I don't know yet what to do next.
http://u33i.imgup.net/groundstraebd1.gif

Since the CCU is powered up and communicating with the buttons and
indicators, it is likely OK. Since there was a big POP, and the CCU can't
communicate with the MCU, which is where all the big power circuitry is, it
seems REALLY likely something in the MCU popped. When you get it out, I
think you are likely to find visible damage.

Jon

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:09 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Since the CCU is powered up and communicating with the buttons and
indicators, it is likely OK. Since there was a big POP, and the CCU can't
communicate with the MCU, which is where all the big power circuitry is, it
seems REALLY likely something in the MCU popped. When you get it out, I
think you are likely to find visible damage.

Thank you for that advice.

I'm kind of stuck like a deer in the headlights at this point because
I have to diagnose if it's the CCU or the MCU (or the power rectifier).

I'm kind of at a loss for diagnostic procedures because the diagnostic
test described in the manual didn't kick in.

 

[Jon Elson]

Danny DiAmico wrote:

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:09 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Since the CCU is powered up and communicating with the buttons and
indicators, it is likely OK. Since there was a big POP, and the CCU
can't communicate with the MCU, which is where all the big power
circuitry is, it
seems REALLY likely something in the MCU popped. When you get it out, I
think you are likely to find visible damage.

Thank you for that advice.

I'm kind of stuck like a deer in the headlights at this point because
I have to diagnose if it's the CCU or the MCU (or the power rectifier).

I'm kind of at a loss for diagnostic procedures because the diagnostic
test described in the manual didn't kick in.

Just pull the MCU and examine it closely. If you can't find anything
burned, then it gets harder. But, if there was a loud POP, I think you WILL
find visible damage. It is possible that there is a fuse on that board, and
the failure of the fuse under hard short conditions made the noise. So, Ohm
out any fuses you find.

Jon

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:58:56 +0000, Zak W wrote:

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

Yea, we formed a neighbourhood committee to inspect and periodically check on
the water supply up here. After about six months of pumping, the one gray
well turned out to be crystalline clear (for now), so, that's been fixed.

Meanwhile, we formed a mesh Internet network, and we cleaned entire hillsides
of poison oak (see picture I just posted below from that last endeavor):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/11917454/img/11917454.jpg

We cleaned up the hillside of old washing machines and tires too!

And, you should see many thousands of Scotch Broom we pulled out after
the last good drenching (the tap roots only come out when the ground
is literally soaked).

So, um, yeah. We've been busy in the boonies of Silicon Valley.

 

[Zak W]

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:nfm85i$2lf$1@news.mixmin.net:

Subject: Re: Advice requested Whirlpool Duet Sport Washing Machine
"popped" From: Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

 

Danny DiAmico posted for all of us...

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:58:56 +0000, Zak W wrote:

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

Yea, we formed a neighbourhood committee to inspect and periodically check on
the water supply up here. After about six months of pumping, the one gray
well turned out to be crystalline clear (for now), so, that's been fixed.


So, um, yeah. We've been busy in the boonies of Silicon Valley.

Glad to hear the gray well water cleaned up. Was the real problem ever
determined?

--
Tekkie

 

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 4/24/2016 6:37 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Hi Guys,

Any washing machine experienced folks here?

Wife pressed the "Power" button on the Costco Whirlpool Duet Sport washing
machine and then, when she pressed the separate "Start" button, something
popped. She said it sounded like a sharp crack, like a "bottle breaking".

It has power (although I cycled the home circuit breakers anyway), but it
won't do anything now when the "Start" button is pressed (nor when the
"Cancel" button is pressed). All the lights on the front light up normally
(it seems).

So, it will power up, but it won't do anything (e.g., no water turns on
and no spinning occurs - in fact, there are no sounds whatsoever from
inside). It won't even turn off with the "Cancel" button (although it will
turn off when I unplug it and then plug it back in).

It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more
now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).

Any suggestions?

Get out and find some rocks by a stream.

 

[Danny DiAmico]

Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

If you skip to the bottom of this post, you'll see pictures of the
burned board. Do you concur based on the photos below that it's
the motor control board?

Why didn't the diagnostic test work then?

Anyway, after being totally unsuccessful at getting the Whirlpool duet
sport WFW8410SW washing machine to diagnose anything other than F28
(which is apparently the same "communications error" as the infamous F11
that youtubers all deplore), I finally just took the whole thing apart.

The en133200 F11.126/980-214 EMI Noise Filter near where the power
comes in seemed to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/9NouUy.gif

The main computer control board (Whirlpool PN W10063510) also seemed
to be in good shape on the bottom:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3AJpZe.gif

And on the top:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vHyNQx.gif

And even looking to the sides:
http://i.cubeupload.com/s47l8r.gif
http://i.cubeupload.com/HXFRaC.gif

But, the motor control board had "something" wrong with it based
on what the plastic looked like:
http://i.cubeupload.com/0hFNfc.gif

I don't know what actually burned yet:
http://i.cubeupload.com/NzBAH1.gif

As the two capacitors seem to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/DLgrxP.gif

Here's one of the capacitors at a side view:
http://i.cubeupload.com/LHKttV.gif

And here's the other capacitor:
http://i.cubeupload.com/eySoyP.gif

This shows a burned trace on the MMU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zTTwBd.gif

And this shows a closeup of that:
http://i.cubeupload.com/pg2KkN.gif

As does this show burnt components or traces:
http://i.cubeupload.com/hXFq4P.gif

I don't think I can figure out, on my own, whether
it's repairable (I suspect it's not - do you?).

So, at this point, if you have good pointers for where to buy a
new Whirlpool motor control board (PN 8540540), I'd appreciate
more advice now that it's pretty sure that it's the MCU and not
the CCU.

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Sun, 01 May 2016 23:40:24 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

The part number seems to be either 8540540 or AKO 706497-05
based on this sticker on the Whirlpool WFW8410SW motor control
board.
http://i.cubeupload.com/H3k19q.gif

I wonder what caused the board to blow up? Notice this capacitor
has a hole blown in it, for example:
http://i.cubeupload.com/UQQp1S.gif

Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 8:17:56 PM UTC-4, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

First, the capacitor visible from the top is toast - the top has clearly swelled, a condition that is typical of a short.

The one large trace looks like a fusible link designed to fail, which, of course, it did. But, that is also likely to be a coincidence rather than an actual design element.

And you also lost a disc cap - that is quite unusual and takes onehelluva spike to accomplish. Which would also explain the fried resistors. Replace it with a new cap of the same value, but with a rating of at least 400V, 600 being better.

There is lots-O-SMT stuff going on, a major PITA to repair unless you have steady hands and good eyesight. Not impossible, but not easy.

I would try to repair the board first - unless a replacement is cheap and time is of the essence. Replace BOTH large electrolytic capacitors, go up one rating (at least) in voltage, and also look for a higher temperature rating than OEM, if one will fit.

You will need to find out whether the resistor near the burn is still good, and its value (don't assume) before you replace it and rebuild the burnt trace. On the long trace, some copper foil will do, solder it to the burnt ends and then trace it over with solder. Once that is done, a bit of CA to hold it to the board will finish the job.

As to putting in a new board, unless you check the ingoing and outgoing voltages, there is no guarantee that there was not an outside cause. But given the appearance of the electrolytics, I suspect they are the first cause.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Sun, 01 May 2016 19:04:35 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny, your pics are to large. Thin the megs down. Your's choke my
bandwidth. Not normally a concern for me.

I'm sorry.
From my experience with you guys, you *see things* I don't see when
I show you pictures (remember the garage door frame rebuild?).

So, I wanted you to have the *biggest* pictures I could supply, so
that you guys could zoom in.

As a courtesy to you all, who help me immensely, here are the shrunk
pictures, in the order of most important to least important.

This is the motor control board (PN 8540540, also PN W10163007) for
the Whirlpool Duet Sport WFW8410SW washing machine:
http://i.cubeupload.com/k1m0mV.jpg

Notice that traces are burnt:
http://i.cubeupload.com/k7Hwkl.jpg

And that multiple surface-mount components have exploded:
http://i.cubeupload.com/YGQ9cM.jpg

There is even a "bullet hole" in one of the flat devices, which,
might not be a capacitor because it's labelled "R16" whereas the
other capacitors have a "C" designation as per typical convention:
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

I'm not sure if one of the huge electrolytic capacitors has blown
or not, because the top isn't flat, but I don't know if it was
flat to begin with:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vdL6Ut.jpg

The other huge electrolytic capacitor seems OK though:
http://i.cubeupload.com/tb3cu4.jpg

The part number is clearly shown on this sticker (and a call to
the official Whirlpool parts center (866-698-2538) confirms that
the part number W10163007 and 8540540. (It's important to note
that the part number is not W10205342, which is sometimes listed
in the parts diagrams - that must be for a newer model?)
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

I'll repost the shrunk pictures of the CPU board and the EMI
filter separately, but they seem pristine so I don't think the
problem is there (unless they caused the problem in the first
place).

Let me know if these pictures need to be shrunk further as I do
try to document everything not only so that you guys can help
me, but also so that others benefit from each action we take.

PS: Where is Jeff Liebermann when you need him!

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Sun, 01 May 2016 21:33:07 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

You'd be better off with a new board.
What you think is a disk capacitor could be an MOV surge arrester.
When those get blown to hell and traces burned off the circuit board,
all other components are suspect.
These newfangled electronically controlled appliances are a lot more
vulnerable to power surges than the old school electromechanical
appliances. I haven't checked recently but I once could buy
rebuilt electromechanical timers for appliances.
I hate wasting things but it's often cheaper to replace a control board.

We did have rains here in California, as Jeff Liebermann would know, where
the wind blew out the power in the mountains three time in one week.

So this was the *first* time the washer was started after the power
went out multiple times!

And you are correct that the part I thought was a capacitor is not
labelled with a C (as the rest of the caps are), but it's labelled
R16, so, it's not a cap.
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

The rest of the capacitors on the motor control board seem to be ok:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TWiBYR.jpg

But certainly some of the surface-mount components have fried:
http://i.cubeupload.com/xRnjw9.jpg

The good news is that the EMI suppression filter seems to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ONiqvC.jpg

And the main computer control board (CCU) seems to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/qABhEj.jpg

Nothing seems burnt on the CCU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zBAmq5.jpg

So, now my goal is to see where the best place to get a used or rebuilt
or new Motor Control Board (MCU) P/N W10163007 or PN 8540540 from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 02 May 2016 09:32:04 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

Well Dan I hope you can get it repaired but the problem with a lot electronic
controls is that when they're hit with a power surge that blows the hell out
of the protectors and blasts runs off a circuit board, all the other parts
are often damaged. MOV's will actually wear out after so many power surges.
On phone lines, me and the guys always installed extra protection and the
protectors would sacrifice themselves to protect the equipment.
The protectors are easily replaced by plugging in a new one.
At your home, you should look into a meter base surge arrester from your
power company. I think it will add a few bucks to your power bill every
month but your power company will guarantee it to protect your appliances.
I don't know what the power company policy is where you reside but it
wouldn't hurt to ask them about a whole house surge arrester. ^_^

Meter base protection:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-MSA-Secondary-Arrestor-Protective/dp/B0019F6X3I

Whole house surge arrester:
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awhole%20house%20surge%20arrestor&tag=duckduckgo-d-20

Thanks for the suggestion of a whole-house surge suppressor.

I do have a generator, which kicks in automatically as the power goes
out here in California at least a dozen times a year (it's like living
in a third world country).

I'm not even counting the times the power goes out for seconds, where
the generator doesn't even kick in, or only kicks in for a few seconds,
the power is that bad from PG&E.

So, the two-hundred dollar Amazon surge suppressor you listed looks
reasonable (considering it would cost more than that to put MOVs on
all the computers and electronic devices).

I wonder how it works if I buy that two-hundred dollar part:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-MSA-Secondary-Arrestor-Protective/dp/B0019F6X3I

Or, if I buy the eighty-dollar part:
http://www.amazon.com/WHOLE-LIGHTNING-PROTECTOR-Spike-Ender-Suppressor/dp/B003Z9S974/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1462207395&sr=8-4

Does the power company let me put it in myself?