Advice requested Whirlpool Duet Sport Washing Machine "poppe

[Danny DiAmico]

Hi Guys,

Any washing machine experienced folks here?

Wife pressed the "Power" button on the Costco Whirlpool Duet Sport washing
machine and then, when she pressed the separate "Start" button, something
popped. She said it sounded like a sharp crack, like a "bottle breaking".

It has power (although I cycled the home circuit breakers anyway), but it
won't do anything now when the "Start" button is pressed (nor when the
"Cancel" button is pressed). All the lights on the front light up normally
(it seems).

So, it will power up, but it won't do anything (e.g., no water turns on
and no spinning occurs - in fact, there are no sounds whatsoever from
inside). It won't even turn off with the "Cancel" button (although it will
turn off when I unplug it and then plug it back in).

It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more
now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).

Any suggestions?

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 25/04/2016 9:37 AM, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Hi Guys,

Any washing machine experienced folks here?

Wife pressed the "Power" button on the Costco Whirlpool Duet Sport washing
machine and then, when she pressed the separate "Start" button, something
popped. She said it sounded like a sharp crack, like a "bottle breaking".

It has power (although I cycled the home circuit breakers anyway), but it
won't do anything now when the "Start" button is pressed (nor when the
"Cancel" button is pressed). All the lights on the front light up normally
(it seems).

So, it will power up, but it won't do anything (e.g., no water turns on
and no spinning occurs - in fact, there are no sounds whatsoever from
inside). It won't even turn off with the "Cancel" button (although it will
turn off when I unplug it and then plug it back in).

It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more
now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).

Any suggestions?

Google is your friend

http://applianceassistant.com/Washer-Repair/Duet/Duet-Washer-Error-Codes.php

Try that and google first before posting.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 9:38:02 PM UTC-4, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Hi Guys,

Any washing machine experienced folks here?

Wife pressed the "Power" button on the Costco Whirlpool Duet Sport washing
machine and then, when she pressed the separate "Start" button, something
popped. She said it sounded like a sharp crack, like a "bottle breaking".

It has power (although I cycled the home circuit breakers anyway), but it
won't do anything now when the "Start" button is pressed (nor when the
"Cancel" button is pressed). All the lights on the front light up normally
(it seems).

So, it will power up, but it won't do anything (e.g., no water turns on
and no spinning occurs - in fact, there are no sounds whatsoever from
inside). It won't even turn off with the "Cancel" button (although it will
turn off when I unplug it and then plug it back in).

It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more
now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).

Any suggestions?

Call the Whirlpool Customer Service line. 1 (866) 698-2538

Start there, they may save you from all sorts of false starts and red herrings.

I expect that there is some sort of fuse or fusible link inside that popped causing the sound and lack of response. You may find that it devolves to the start capacitor on the motor, or some other similar part that failed causing a load on the link.

Generally, it has been my experience with moving parts that the more extreme the symptom, the simpler the cause. But, start with the toll-free number. They have seen (and heard) it all before.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:49:33 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

Did your wife smell anything burning. All these newfangled
electronically controlled appliances have components that contain "Magic
Smoke" which is necessary for the electronics to operate. When the MS
escapes, the appliance stops working. The age of your appliance could
mean that an electronic component called an "electrolytic capacitor" has
failed. Unfortunately, manufacturers often save a few cents on parts by
purchasing components that just meet the requirements to make the unit
work. The bane of modern electronic devices is the inexpensive
electrolytics that manufacturers seem to be fond of using. Anyone who
works with electronics can spot a failed electrolytic capacitor because
it has swelled or is leaking. Here's a video of a fellow replacing some
failed electrolytic capacitors in a TV set. This will give you some idea
of what to look for on your washer's control board or power supply. ^_^

There was absolutely no smell, although we used to blow up electrolytic
caps (the blue unipolar water tank type) by sticking them in outlets in
physics class and then waiting for some unsuspecting student to turn
the lights on in the Physics lab - and I don't remember any smell at
that time.

Anyway, the wife screamed when it happened, so I was there within a
minute, and I didn't detect any smell myself.

I'm very familiar with the electrolytic caps, and I am hopeful that
I'll see something burnt or blown inside when I open it up.

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:33:18 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

Google is your friend

http://applianceassistant.com/Washer-Repair/Duet/Duet-Washer-Error-
Codes.php

Try that and google first before posting.

Thanks for the pointer, but I can't get any codes out of the
Whirlpool duet Sport Washer WFW8410SW even though I have the following
manuals as described on this post from more than two years ago on the
same washer (but for a different problem).

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.home.repair/whirlpool$20duet$20danny/alt.home.repair/3Q0hbYtmEJI/tN1jjcJdeugJ

Troubleshooting manuals,
https://www.whirlpool.com/manuals/

(WFW8410SW) Use & Care Guide:
https://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/MLPDF/Use%20and%20Care%20Guide%20-%20W10235940.pdf

Parts list:
https://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/MLPDF/Repair%20Part%20List%20-%20W10238202.pdf

BTW, all the lights light, but nothing works; even the door is locked
shut (with the clothes still imprisoned inside).

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:28:12 -0700, etpm wrote:

Can you open the door to the washer? If not it may be the door
interlock has failed. The sound could have been mechanical.
If the door interlock doesn't work properly then it is likely the
switch in the interlock is preventing the washer from working. I had a
similar experience when the door seal failed and squirted water into
the interlock switch.
Eric

You are correct in that the door is locked shut, under all conditions.
Whether the washer is plugged in or not, or if the start and cancel
are operated, the door won't open.

There is no water because the wash never started, so, it could
be the door interlock. Right now I'm searching for a model-specific
troubleshooting manual that can give me diagnostic codes.

The model number is WFW8410SW, Whirlpool duet Sport Washing Machine.
My last thread on this washing machine was more than two years ago,
which I found by going to http://tinyurl.com/alt-home-repair and
typing in the washer model number WFW8410SW.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.home.repair/WFW8410SW|sort:relevance/alt.home.repair/3Q0hbYtmEJI/FsLs2j_8N58J

 

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:37:59 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
<dannydiamico@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Guys,

Any washing machine experienced folks here?

Wife pressed the "Power" button on the Costco Whirlpool Duet Sport washing
machine and then, when she pressed the separate "Start" button, something
popped. She said it sounded like a sharp crack, like a "bottle breaking".

It has power (although I cycled the home circuit breakers anyway), but it
won't do anything now when the "Start" button is pressed (nor when the
"Cancel" button is pressed). All the lights on the front light up normally
(it seems).

So, it will power up, but it won't do anything (e.g., no water turns on
and no spinning occurs - in fact, there are no sounds whatsoever from
inside). It won't even turn off with the "Cancel" button (although it will
turn off when I unplug it and then plug it back in).

It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more
now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).

Any suggestions?

Can you open the door to the washer? If not it may be the door
interlock has failed. The sound could have been mechanical.
If the door interlock doesn't work properly then it is likely the
switch in the interlock is preventing the washer from working. I had a
similar experience when the door seal failed and squirted water into
the interlock switch.
Eric

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:02:30 -0400, clare wrote:

If the latch blew up holding the door closed but the switch was thrown
to the other side of the washer and thinks the door is open, you would
have that situation.

I finally got an error code, after fiddling with the buttons.
You press any button, rinse cycle is a good one, for 3 to 4 seconds on
and then off for the same amount of time, for 3 to as many as it takes
times. After a dozen times, I finally saw the error code F28.

F28 appears to be a communications error in the Whirlpool duet sport
WFW8410SW where the Main Control Board (CCU W10679602, $300) isn't
communicating with the Motor Control Board (MCU W10163007 $265) or if
the front or back panel "grounding switches" are open.

Apparently the motor control board (MCU) converts single-phase power
to 3 phases to run the motor; it also slows down the motor by braking
it electrically.

According to this article, the solution might be as simple as rebooting
the computer! http://www.ehow.com/how_8052747_fix-f28-code-whirlpool-duet.html

 

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:53:58 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
<dannydiamico@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:28:12 -0700, etpm wrote:

Can you open the door to the washer? If not it may be the door
interlock has failed. The sound could have been mechanical.
If the door interlock doesn't work properly then it is likely the
switch in the interlock is preventing the washer from working. I had a
similar experience when the door seal failed and squirted water into
the interlock switch.
Eric

You are correct in that the door is locked shut, under all conditions.
Whether the washer is plugged in or not, or if the start and cancel
are operated, the door won't open.

There is no water because the wash never started, so, it could
be the door interlock. Right now I'm searching for a model-specific
troubleshooting manual that can give me diagnostic codes.

The model number is WFW8410SW, Whirlpool duet Sport Washing Machine.
My last thread on this washing machine was more than two years ago,
which I found by going to http://tinyurl.com/alt-home-repair and
typing in the washer model number WFW8410SW.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.home.repair/WFW8410SW|sort:relevance/alt.home.repair/3Q0hbYtmEJI/FsLs2j_8N58J

There should be a manual release of the interlock. Look in the manual.
Once the interlock is manually disengaged the washer should try to
function normally. If the manual door unlock doesn't work even when
actuated then the mechanical linkage may be broken which is what the
noise may have been. Or it may be that the switch in the interlock has
corroded contacts like mine did from water squirting directly at the
switch from a leaky tub seal. On my washer I carefully took apart the
switch and cleaned the contacts inside. This fixed the washer
operation. I still had to replace the belt, tub pulley, and tub seal.
And my nice maple floor is warped under the washer from that damn seal
leak. GRRR. If it is the interlock and if your washer is anything
like my GE then you are in for some fun. If you enjoy fixing washers.
I was pissed off at GE for the lousy construction. Still am for that
matter.
Eric

 

[Jon Elson]

Danny DiAmico wrote:

There is no water because the wash never started, so, it could
be the door interlock. Right now I'm searching for a model-specific
troubleshooting manual that can give me diagnostic codes.

There is a place you can slied a screwdriver or table knife to unlock the
door, if you need to.

The smarts are usually just one small PC board in the "console" at the back
of the washer. Often there are a few angled screws and the while thing
lifts straight up. (OK, looks like yours is a front load, so the
construction is a bit different.)

Most of the newer machines, and I'll bet all of the recent front-loads, use
3-phase motors and VFDs integrated into the controller board. I suspect the
load pop was something in the VFD blowing. You ought to pull the board and
inspect for burst components or traces burned off the board. If you find
any of that, it may be best to just replace the whole board (although it
will be expensive.)

We have one of the super-efficient top loaders, and I've done quite a bit of
maintenance on it.

Jon

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:15:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

A one inch wide flexible putty knife might git under and it a git it
done. Don't use Mon's butter knives for screwdrivers. You have been
warned.

Hi Oren,
Opening the door turned out to be easy.

In the WFW8410SW, Whirlpool duet Sport Washing Machine, there is a
special pull tab for opening the door.

Here is a picture of it in my washing machine:
http://c74i.imgup.net/pulltab19b0a.gif

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:28:49 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

It appears that an engineer was thinking the day that was added.
I wonder how hard he/she/it had to argue with the bean counters to
justify the extra cost? ^_^

Yeah. It was nice the door opened so easily with that pull tab
made expressly for that purpose.
http://c74i.imgup.net/pulltab19b0a.gif

All I needed to do was remove the lower panel, which contained
this instruction manual, hidden inside:
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

Then, there was this drain plug:
http://t23i.imgup.net/drain27a1.gif

Which, when loosened, leaked very little water (1/4 inch or so):
http://t41i.imgup.net/leak5a84.gif

Unfortunately, the drain plug broke in half when I twisted it out:
http://b28i.imgup.net/broken_plu6163.gif

So I will have to deal with that problem later.

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:04:50 -0400, clare wrote:

> Except when I posted the OP had not been able to find any error codes.

That was my mistake to not have the F28 error code earlier, and I'm sorry
I didn't have that information for you when I last posted. The instructions
given were for a *newer* model washer, so I had to wait until I found
the instructions hidden inside my washer to generate that F28 code.
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

That one error code for the Whirlpool duet sport WFW8410SW washer
was F28, which is a communication error between the computer board
(CCU) and the motor control board (MCU) and perhaps the lower and
back panel grounding switches.
http://g31i.imgup.net/f28d702.gif

The ground straps seem to have good contact, so, I think it's
the MMU or the CCU but I don't know yet what to do next.
http://u33i.imgup.net/groundstraebd1.gif

I wiggled all the wires of the CCU, to no avail:
http://h65i.imgup.net/ccub218.gif

And I wiggled all the wires around the surprisingly small motor
noting that the belt seemed to be intact and in good shape:
http://a26i.imgup.net/motor8386.gif

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:38:21 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Note the POSSIBLE error codes (page 6-2 onward).

"FAILURE/ERROR DISPLAY CODES Communication of failure codes will
be displayed on the washer console by all cycle lights flashing
and standing status lights."

I found the manual for the WFW8410SW hidden inside the lower panel:
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

You are indeed correct that the F28 error I have is a "communications
error", most likely between the main computer and the motor controller
(which converts single-phase AC voltage to three phase).

Right now I'm just trying to identify the parts I see so that I
can piece together how the darn thing works - so that I can then
piece together how to test what's not working.

For example, these are clearly the hot and cold water valves:
http://k55i.imgup.net/watervalve2761.gif

This round thing is in the back right top corner, near where the electrical
power comes into the washer, but I don't know what it is yet (maybe a vacuum
valve of some sort?):
http://w48i.imgup.net/roundthingd36d.gif

But this is a black object where the power comes into the washer
that I don't know what it does and where the wife said the sound
seemed to have come from.
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

It doesn't seem burnt though but what is it?

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:07:35 -0400, clare wrote:

I wouldn't buy the duet anyways - there were too many reported
problems with the model when we bought our new washer/drier pair about
5 years ago.

Besides the drain cap breaking in half when I removed it today (leaving
the important half stuck solid inside the drain tube):
http://b28i.imgup.net/broken_plu6163.gif

I noticed why the detergent dispenser hasn't been working for the past
two years!
http://p82i.imgup.net/dispenser5571.gif

The dispenser arm had completely come off its pivot point!
http://u13i.imgup.net/diispenser3376.gif

That's not the problem, but, it does show a bad design for the
arm. I don't know how it goes back but it looks pretty easy to
put together (after I clean it up with some vinegar later).

Here's how I "think" it goes back together, but I'm not gonna
worry about it right now as that is not the problem I'm trying
to solve at the moment:
http://s48i.imgup.net/armputback931f.gif

BTW, does anyone know if there is anything holding the lever to
the pivot point? Is it just a press fit? No bolt?

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:10:42 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

According to this article, the solution might be as simple as rebooting
the computer! http://www.ehow.com/how_8052747_fix-f28-code-whirlpool-duet.html

That was just wishful thinking.

So was hoping there was something wrong with the power supply:
http://r65i.imgup.net/120vb16b.gif

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:52:14 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Did you run all of the other "tests" to see which pass and
which fail? And, what they have in common?

I have the diagnostic manual that was hidden under the bottom cover
but NONE of the subsequent tests do a thing after I get the F28
communications error.
http://d04i.imgup.net/diagnostic43d3.gif

The motor control board no doubt has a high voltage rectifier (to convert
the 120VAC from your mains to ~160VDC) and "switching logic" (FETs)
to control the application of that power to the windings of the
motor -- in a controlled fashion (a "variable frequency drive").

Maybe this black object where the power comes in is the rectifier?
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

The box doesn't look burnt, but the wife said the popping sound came from
that right top back corner - so it may have blown without showing
any ill effects on the outside.

Gain access to the drive motor. Unplug the wiring harness from that
motor. Check for continuity between each pair of pins. You're
not just looking for "continuity" but are actually trying to quantify
the resistance between each pair of pins AND THE MOTOR CASE.
You'll expect to see a low reading (5-10 ohms). If you see anything
higher, a winding is "open". Anything lower (esp '0'!) is a short.

I can see the motor, but I might need to remove the back in order to
better access the motor. The manual that I found inside does give me
ohms to look for in the wiring continuity:
http://a26i.imgup.net/motor8386.gif

Point of this is to decide if you ALSO need a new motor (chances are,
you DO need a new motor controller).

My task now is to identify all the objects I can see inside, and
then to figure out what they fundamentally do and then to figure out
how to test them.

You can then remove the motor controller and give it a once-over
for cosmetic damage. It may be sensational -- or, may be difficult
to notice. Compare similar components to each other, carefully
(there are probably 3 or 4 identical circuits driving the motor
and a "chip"/computer driving those circuits.

The motor controller is hard to snap a photo of because it's down
low and deep in back so I may need to remove the back panel to
access its wires.
http://l00i.imgup.net/motorcontr3723.gif

It's possible that you just have a bad connection in one of the
cables (water can be very corrosive; things can vibrate loose, etc.)
but SOMETHING gave up the ghost.

I wiggled all the connections, but nothing changed.

Here's the CCU controller near the top front right corner:
http://h65i.imgup.net/ccub218.gif

I think the most likely thing is that the "black box" in the top
left back right corner blew internally - but I need to figure out
what it is before I can even think of testing it.
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:14:52 -0700, Don Y wrote:

- select a button
- press (and hold) it for 4 seconds
- release for 4 seconds
- press (and hold) it for 4 seconds
- release for 4 seconds
- press (and hold) it for 4 seconds

That did the trick.
F28.
Communications Error.
No other errors.
http://g31i.imgup.net/f28d702.gif

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:05:49 -0400, hubops wrote:

From what I have read so far - this is where I'd start.
Try pressing the door in and out ; maybe jiggle up & down slightly -
to see if anything happens -
.. with power on - to generate an error code ?
Pop the lid & examine the door lock mechanism -
carefully - in case the spring is waiting to bite you ..

Door lock appears to be working perfectly.
http://w25i.imgup.net/doorlockc3d4.gif

 

[Danny DiAmico]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:54:30 -0700, Oren wrote:

Guest are like trash -- take it out every three (3) days ...

Seriously. Have you mentioned to the kids about the rattlesnakes,
yet?

Ah, you remember that rattler, you do.
I wish I had a picture of her.

I have found a half dozen since, but now I know EXACTLY what to
look for!

I almost got bit by the pool, bending over to clean out the pool
pumps, but I catch them now and throw them about a mile away
from a five gallon bucket so that they can live, but somewhere
else.