A Product Design Invitation

[Bob Monsen]

Guy Macon wrote:

Guy Macon wrote:


Bob Monsen wrote:


I'll not comment further.

Promises, promises.


It took him 4 hours and 32 minutes to break his promise and comment further.

"In the clearing stands a boxer and a fighter by his trade
And he carries a reminder of every glove that laid him down
Or cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame
'I am leaving, I am leaving', But the fighter still remains..."

-"The Boxer" by Simon & Garfunkel

True. I was unable to resist your troll bait. As you surmised, calling
sombody a liar in public generally moves them to action, in this case
giving you the high ground. Kudos! Well played...

On the other hand, I've seen enough flame wars to know that stating one
won't post again could be capitalized upon in this way. I also knew I
could trust you to try to rub my nose in it. This offered a perfect
opportunity to exhibit how you would respond when under stress, and you
performed perfectly! You clipped the content, and attempted to bash me
on a silly side issue, without really addressing the main point.

On a side note, I changed the followup-to: line on this message to your
new group, which appears to be a bit lacking in traffic. Hope it helps!

---
Best Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[Richard Henry]

"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.04.17.56.20.918017@example.net...

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:33:44 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

And the electronic design content is this post is where, exactly?

Point well taken. When you are right, you are right, and this is
clearly a case where you are right and I was wrong.

My apologies to the esteemed Mr. Grise.

Thank you, Guy. I accept your apology in all seriousness.
Please pay no attention to those little boys playing behind my
various nyms.

In the spirit of good will, of course, I'll make an earnest effort
to keep the Rich Grise persona focused on technical matters, unless the
subject line is clearly marked 'OT:' or the thread has been extant for
such a long time that even our Grand Masters are opining.

Deal?

Thought so. I agree too.

So where is the electronics content of this posting?

 

[Bob Monsen]

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 13:43:38 -0700, Bob Monsen wrote:

Guy Macon wrote:

[some other stuff]

Bob Monsen wrote:

[some stuff]

I'm not about to clutter this group with more nonsense. You are quite
good at starting flame wars, then sitting back and laughing as it roars
on.


He's not laughing. He's terrified. I once[1] was where he is,
psychologically/socially - Guy Macon is still a Nerd. The Classic
Geek, who hasn't yet moved out of the dorm room, emotionally.

You are right. And he even appears to know what he is talking about on
occasion, which is more than I can often say of myself.

You are a troll.


Lighten up! He's only a Nerd. And Nerds are not only about the most
welcome people there are around s.e.d, but they're about the only
people who would even be interested in lurking and/or participating
at sci.electronics.design.

We're Grownups! We can take a little ribbing now and then!

No, he really is a troll. He lives under a bridge, and have you noticed
that he only posts at night? Coincidence? I think not.

I'd advise folks who are thinking of trying this
new strategy to look over Guy's recent 'contributions' to this group.


Yeah, yeah, covered that just recently.


I stated the facts as I see them. You are free to characterize them any
way you wish, and to attempt to mislead readers. That is the essence of
an unmoderated newsgroup.


Yup. There ya are. Need you say more? ;-P ;-P ;-P


What I stated is true. Any post cross-posted to your silly little
kingdom can be edited or prohibited by you, regardless of your
protestations to the contrary. You can stop posts to an unmoderated
newsgroup if they have been cross-posted.


Now _you're_ being petulant. Don't do that! (and BTW, FYI, there's
no way he can stop some other person's post to an unmoderated
newsgroup even if it _has_ been crossposted. What he _might_ be
able to do is spoof some headers and do in-line editing, much
like I'm doo\^H^Ho^Hing rith^H^Hght now. ;-J )

He was pushing my buttons. We've had a few exchanges in the past, and he
appears to know how to make me angry. One needs extreme self-confidence
to come off like Larkin and laugh at everything.

I was just pissed off at the underhanded way he offered up his clever
scheme for controlling threads, without really explaining all of the
ramifications, which he clearly knew, being a moderator of another
group. On the other hand, perhaps he didn't understand the problems I
and others would have with him being able to arbitrarily reject replies
on an unmoderated newsgroup.

And, FYI, he CAN stop posts to unmoderated groups that are crossposted
to his moderated group. Your newsserver sends any posts which are
crossposted to a moderated group to the moderator of the first moderated
group in the crossposting list. It's only when he OKs it, and appends
his little trailer, that it goes out. That's what Larkin noticed. A
reply to this group had his moderator tag appended. If he rejected it,
it wouldn't have gone out. He admitted that:

+You crosspost to a moderated newsgroup, you take your chances.
+
+That being said, it is my moderation policy to never, ever
+edit a post to a newsgroup I moderate, with "edit" meaning
+"change something above the moderator's comment line.
+I may reject the post, of course."

<xref:number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com sci.electronics.design:573540>

Go away. Please.


Hey! I've got an idea! Let's all go out and play
"Hide-n-go fuck yourself"!

Nyuck. Thanks Rich. You are a giant amongst lesser men. (to quote
charles shultz)

You are wasting everyone's time.


You presume to speak for "everyone"? Can you name those for whom you
speak? Thanks.

I was using the royal 'we' of course. Sorry, it's a habit that is hard
to break.

Actually, at this
point, by replying to you, I'm wasting folks time.


Bullshit! I'm having the time of my life! What are my options? Watch
TeeVee? ;^J <- BTW, if anybody hasn't figured out that smiley yet,
turn your head leftwise, such that this <-- is up. [Damn! Come to
think of it, that's the way most ASCII smileys are read already!
Never mind. -- ed.]


I'll not comment
further. Feel free to have the last word.


OK! ;-D ;-D ;-D

 

[Guy Macon]

Bob Monsen wrote:

On a side note, I changed the followup-to: line on this message to your
new group, which appears to be a bit lacking in traffic. Hope it helps!

I just set up a filter to send anything with your message-ID
in the references line into the bit bucket.

Feel free to apply your whining about setting followups to your
own actions.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Guy Macon wrote:

Bob Monsen wrote:


On a side note, I changed the followup-to: line on this message to your
new group, which appears to be a bit lacking in traffic. Hope it helps!


I just set up a filter to send anything with your message-ID
in the references line into the bit bucket.

Feel free to apply your whining about setting followups to your
own actions.

You don't even have your friggin group going and you're already playing
Hitler on personal grounds. No wonder you're lacking for things to do-
and that's "do" as in "do a dog."

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:19:30 +0000, Guy Macon
<_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

Bob Monsen wrote:

On a side note, I changed the followup-to: line on this message to your
new group, which appears to be a bit lacking in traffic. Hope it helps!

I just set up a filter to send anything with your message-ID
in the references line into the bit bucket.

Feel free to apply your whining about setting followups to your
own actions.

---
What next, are you gonna filter out the Jews?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Bob Monsen]

Guy Macon wrote:

Bob Monsen wrote:


On a side note, I changed the followup-to: line on this message to your
new group, which appears to be a bit lacking in traffic. Hope it helps!


I just set up a filter to send anything with your message-ID
in the references line into the bit bucket.

Feel free to apply your whining about setting followups to your
own actions.

Ok Guy. Have a happy life.

---
Warmest Regards
Bob Monsen

 

[Guy Macon]

John Fields wrote:

What next, are you gonna filter out the Jews?

One person sets followups to an inappropriate group, I set a filter
that only catches those misdirected followups, and this is the sort
of over-the-top response I get. You appear to be investing a great
deal of effort into criticizing what happens in a newsgroup that you
seem to be uninterested in using. I wonder why that is?

 

[Winfield Hill]

Guy Macon wrote...

... You appear to be investing a great deal of effort
into criticizing what happens in a newsgroup that you
seem to be uninterested in using. I wonder why that is?

We don't want you messing around with the headers, etc., of
any postings in our public group. That's what'll happen if
someone replies to an s.e.d. thread from within your group.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[John Devereux]

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> writes:

Guy Macon wrote:
Bob Monsen wrote:

On a side note, I changed the followup-to: line on this message to
your new group, which appears to be a bit lacking in traffic. Hope
it helps!
I just set up a filter to send anything with your message-ID in the
references line into the bit bucket. Feel free to apply your
whining about setting followups to your
own actions.


You don't even have your friggin group going and you're already
playing Hitler on personal grounds. No wonder you're lacking for
things to do-
and that's "do" as in "do a dog."

Yes.

I don't object to moderated groups in principle. I subscribe to one
already. Also most mailing lists are under a single persons control,
and these can work very well.

But, in my opinion a moderator must be *seen* to be free of personal
bias, like any other type of arbitrator or "referee".


--

John Devereux

 

[Guy Macon]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Guy Macon wrote...

... You appear to be investing a great deal of effort
into criticizing what happens in a newsgroup that you
seem to be uninterested in using. I wonder why that is?

We don't want you messing around with the headers, etc., of
any postings in our public group. That's what'll happen if
someone replies to an s.e.d. thread from within your group.

Please consider the following classes of posts:

[1] Posts by you to sci.electronics.design.
I have no ability (or desire) to mess with them in any way.
Your post went through uoregon.edu, sdsu.edu, Earthlink,
Newsguy and Supernews (and several other servers) on the way
to my computer, and not a single one of those systems met your
criteria of "not messing with your post in any way." Every one
of them made a change. Thus I must sadly inform you that you
will never get what you say you want.

[2] Posts by you to misc.business.product-dev.
If you post to a moderated newsgroup, you should expect possible
rejection of your post or moderator's comments. These are all
bog-standard moderator actions, and if you don't like that fact
you are free to choose not to post to moderated newsgroups. You
should have an expectation that nobody edits the words that you
write, and I know of no moderator (including me) that does that.
Yes, there is a theoretical possibility of a moderator doing that,
but in my case I would have to do the following to do it:

I would have to inform ISC.ORG that I no longer wish to have
stump.algebra.com be my moderation server and I would have to set
up one of my own. Igor Chudov runs stump.algebra.com, and his
ReadySTUMP moderation software doesn't have any provision for
editing the text of a post. I doubt that anyone has ever asked
for that feature, and he wouldn't implement it if they did ask
for it. See [ http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump ]. So, as
long as you see in the headers that stump.algebra.com is in the
headers, you can be assured that I lack the ability to "mess with"
your posts other than the normal actions that hundreds of moderators
do every day without anyone complaining.

[3] Posts by others to sci.electronics.design.
That's none of your business. Let's say someone wants to email
their posts to me and to pay me to edit them for content. That
would be between me and them. Unless someone does something like
that, see [1] explaining that I can't change such posts.

[4] Posts by others to misc.business.product-dev.
None of your business. See [2] and [3].

[5] Crossposts by you to s.e.d and m.b.p-d.
Same answer as [2]. Don't crosspost to moderated newsgroups
if you don't wish your posts to be moderated. You are responsible
for deciding where your posts go. If you allow someone else (such
as the person you are replying to) to make that decision for you,
be a man and don't whine about the consequences of your bad decisions.

[5] Crossposts by others to s.e.d and m.b.p-d.
None of your business. See [2] through [4] above.

 

[Guy Macon]

John Devereux wrote:

But, in my opinion a moderator must be *seen* to be free of personal
bias, like any other type of arbitrator or "referee".

Not possible in sci.electronics.design. Too many ineducable people
with incorrect information about how moderation works. Too many
people who make up things out of whole cloth in an attempt to keep
a flame war going.

If anyone has any criticisms of the way I moderate, they can post
them to misc.business.product-dev wit [POLICY] in the header, and
I will approve that post. If they wish to use their psychic powers
to predict some future malfeasance, they have sci.electronics.design
to do it in.

 

[Guy Macon]

John Fields wrote:

As usual, your powers of perception seem to be misdirected.
I'm not interested in critcizing the group, I'm interested in
criticising _you_.

Ah. My error. I apologize for mis-speaking. Carry on.

 

[Bob Monsen]

Guy Macon wrote:

John Devereux wrote:


But, in my opinion a moderator must be *seen* to be free of personal
bias, like any other type of arbitrator or "referee".


Not possible in sci.electronics.design. Too many ineducable people
with incorrect information about how moderation works. Too many
people who make up things out of whole cloth in an attempt to keep
a flame war going.

If anyone has any criticisms of the way I moderate, they can post
them to misc.business.product-dev wit [POLICY] in the header, and
I will approve that post. If they wish to use their psychic powers
to predict some future malfeasance, they have sci.electronics.design
to do it in.

Guy is such a stinker. I point out, again and again, how he has mislead
and manipulated the truth, and he once again post something using his
'voice of reason' tone, that *seems* reasonable on the outside, but
implies that I and others have lied about him and posted misinformation.

This fellow either has no conscience, or simply perceives reality in
some strange, paranoid way, and deserves nothing but pity.

Here is the truth, which I've been pointing out again and again, despite
Guy's attempts to discredit me and twist my meaning:

If one cross-posts to a moderated newsgroup, the moderator of that
newsgroup can reedit and possibly reject the post. If this happens, the
posting will not go out to the unmoderated groups included in the
cross-post.

---
Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Bob Monsen wrote:

Guy Macon wrote:

John Devereux wrote:


But, in my opinion a moderator must be *seen* to be free of personal
bias, like any other type of arbitrator or "referee".



Not possible in sci.electronics.design. Too many ineducable people
with incorrect information about how moderation works. Too many
people who make up things out of whole cloth in an attempt to keep a
flame war going.

If anyone has any criticisms of the way I moderate, they can post
them to misc.business.product-dev wit [POLICY] in the header, and
I will approve that post. If they wish to use their psychic powers to
predict some future malfeasance, they have sci.electronics.design
to do it in.





Guy is such a stinker. I point out, again and again, how he has mislead
and manipulated the truth, and he once again post something using his
'voice of reason' tone, that *seems* reasonable on the outside, but
implies that I and others have lied about him and posted misinformation.

This fellow either has no conscience, or simply perceives reality in
some strange, paranoid way, and deserves nothing but pity.

Here is the truth, which I've been pointing out again and again, despite
Guy's attempts to discredit me and twist my meaning:

If one cross-posts to a moderated newsgroup, the moderator of that
newsgroup can reedit and possibly reject the post. If this happens, the
posting will not go out to the unmoderated groups included in the
cross-post.

---
Regards,
Bob Monsen

Right- it looks like he has already decided that you be bit-bucket'ed
off USENET entirely. I am so glad to know that the idiot will save me
from your posts- just another example of a self-absorbed narcissist, so
many of those rejects around.

 

[Bob Monsen]

Guy Macon wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote:

Guy Macon wrote...

... You appear to be investing a great deal of effort
into criticizing what happens in a newsgroup that you
seem to be uninterested in using. I wonder why that is?

We don't want you messing around with the headers, etc., of
any postings in our public group. That's what'll happen if
someone replies to an s.e.d. thread from within your group.

The following is typical guywanese... here is the actual nugget of
information:

Crossposts by you to s.e.d and m.b.p-d.
^^^^^^^^

= misc.business.product-dev, Guy's moderated group

. Don't crosspost to moderated newsgroups
if you don't wish your posts to be moderated. You are responsible
for deciding where your posts go. If you allow someone else (such
as the person you are replying to) to make that decision for you,
be a man and don't whine about the consequences of your bad decisions.

His advice? Caveat Emptor! You need to check the post you are replying
to for surreptitious changes to the followup-to: field. It is *your*
fault that the 'guy' you are replying to changed the followup-to field
to SCI.ELECTR0NICS.DESIGN (note the clever use of lookalike
characters... can you spot the zero?), or alt.dev.null, or
alt.misc.pictures.erotica in his message.

It is also your responsibility if you naively reply to a message without
first deleting misc.business.product-dev from the crosspost groups, and
have it then rejected by him because he lost a flame-war with you in an
unmoderated newsgroup, and is still being a baby about it (or for any
other arbitrary reason.)

I'd take this advice to heart.

As an additional warning, a time-honored usenet scheme occasionally
stumbled upon by craven, lying bastards has been to become moderator of
some unused moderated group, and then, while in a flame war, add a big
list of other unused groups to the crosspost field, including their
little kingdom somewhere in the mix. It is often done in stages, with
more and more groups added as the flames go back and forth, until the
hapless victim doesn't know which posts are coming from which groups.
Once the moderated group is inserted, the attacker has the ability to
reject or edit the post of his adversary. I first saw this used, to
stunning effect, in 1985.

I'd watch for this one as well!

---
Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[Guy Macon]

Bob Monsen wrote:

Guy is such a stinker.

"When anyone resorts to personal attacks, it is almost always
because they are losing an argument." -The Happy Heretic

I point out, again and again, how he has mislead
and manipulated the truth, and he once again post something using his
'voice of reason' tone, that *seems* reasonable on the outside, but
implies that I and others have lied about him and posted misinformation.

You have posted various things, some of them true and some of them
lies. Shall I post direct quotes of the ones that were lies - again?

Here is the truth, which I've been pointing out again and again, despite
Guy's attempts to discredit me and twist my meaning:

If one cross-posts to a moderated newsgroup, the moderator of that
newsgroup can reedit and possibly reject the post. If this happens, the
posting will not go out to the unmoderated groups included in the
cross-post.

That one is the truth. It isn't original, of course; it has been
explained at least a dozen times by me and others, but hey, if it
makes you feel good telling the truth once in a while, who am I to
discourage you? If you don't like moderation, don't crosspost to
moderated newsgroups. And don't whine if you decide to let someone
else decide where your posts go.

Because you are becoming repetitive, I am going to wind up this
discussion with you. Or rather, I am going to wind up my end of
this discussion with you - you are of course free to wrote what
you choose just as I am free to ignore you.

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:46:35 +0000, Guy Macon
<_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

Because you are becoming repetitive, I am going to wind up this
discussion with you. Or rather, I am going to wind up my end of
this discussion with you - you are of course free to wrote what
you choose just as I am free to ignore you.

---
While ignorance seems to be one of your strong suits, ignore-ance
doesn't. Or was it your intent to violate the tenets of your no-troll
policy in order to propagate this and the related threads for some
peculiar reason?

BTW, 'wrote' is in the past tense and is used incorrectly, above.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Guy Macon]

John Fields wrote:

BTW, 'wrote' is in the past tense and is used incorrectly, above.

My apologies for rewriting a past tense statement and missing one word.

"Usenet: wisdom in homeopathic doses."
-Paul Martin

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:09:36 +0000, Guy Macon
<_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

BTW, 'wrote' is in the past tense and is used incorrectly, above.

My apologies for rewriting a past tense statement and missing one word.

---
Apology excepted.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer