45-degree diagonal cutters?

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:47:27 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com>
wrote:

Full context restored for unanswered questions.

On Feb 11, 2:39 am, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:
SS > I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers
SS > from a place I worked at years ago. They were
SS > going belly up and tossed out boxes of the things.
SS > I'm still using the few that I haven't given away
SS > or broken. As long as you don't use them to cut
SS > steal (hence the broken cutters) they are
SS > awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.


G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G
G > At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt
G > companies, sometimes I have seen hard,
G > tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.


lifeimitateslife wrote:
lil > I think you assign "hard and tangible" to
lil > others when it can be assigned to you.
lil > Hard and tangible evidence that your
lil > statistical analysis prowess ain't that great.
lil
lil > If the difference between buying $600
lil > worth of cheap shit tools or $5000
lil > worth of long lasting, high quality tools
lil > is a figure that you think could break
lil > just about any company, < snip

G > Are you saying that the outfit that
G > Sansui Samurai described as having
G > gone belly up did the right thing by
G > buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
G > hand tools rather than the Xcelite
G > ones which would have cost $600?

lil > No. I am saying that your claim that it is any indication of a
lil > causation for having gone bankrupt, is a fallacy, and it is.

G > That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.

G > Wasteful overspending and overcommitment
G > in purchasing are common contributors to
G > business failure. The number one cause of
G > failure for small business is undercapitalization
G > or excessive cost of money. ie Cost controls.

G > The stuff that "belly up" companies throw away
G > or liquidate MAY VERY WELL reveal important
G > symptoms of problems that destroyed them.

G > Like most people here I enjoy and appreciate
G > truly good quality tools, FOR ME.

G > As others have mentioned, theftability, loss
G > and abuse CAN MEAN that the Xcelite tools
G > provide a better Return On Investment.

G > The nature of the work, the security of
G > individuals toolboxes, the number of people
G > who might potentially forget to return a
G > tool are all variables that could decide
G > whether the ROLLS ROYCE quality of
G > nippers are a good or bad idea.

G > Fluorescent light bulbs at $ 4 a shot are
G > great if your mortgage is totally paid off.
G > If you're selling your home next week
G > or if you're a landlord the ROI's not there.

G > Businesses OWNING their own facilities
G > sometimes find that they are better off to
G > sell their own building and rent it back
G > because they can't charge off any building
G > cost if they OWN the building.

G > I neither condone this nor like it, I just report it.

G > I LOVE well machined high quality tools
G > and craftsmanship, but it doesn't always
G > show up on the P&L sheet. I wish it did.

G > You seem to be applying personal taste
G > to profitability rationalizations.

G > That's partly why "bean counters" are
G > so widely disliked, isn't it?

G > My background is in small businesses
G > where you wear many hats and can't
G > blame "that other guy".

G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G
G > Didn't I convey two alternatives there?
G
G > That the outfit failed:
G > A. BECAUSE they buy "only the finest" or
G > B. DESPITE buying "only the finest"?
G
G > It's like option A set you off so much that
G > you overlooked option B.

G > Did you miss option B, lil ?

G > Judging from the way you took it very
G > personally, I'm guessing that you worked
G > somewhere where you groused about
G > the shit Xcelite nippers all day long....

G > How is that different from the
G > MacIntosh kooks?

G > I wrote this BEFORE I read your posted
G > story about exploding at a new guy for
G > using your tools. Did somebody at the
G > company give him permission to do so?

G > Telling the new guy to use your toolbox
G > would seem to be fairly typical hazing or
G > office politics considering your reaction.

-------------------------------------



G > That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.

AL > No, but the remark was incorrect because there
AL > are plenty of examples of companies that have
AL > no problem stocking or using expensive items
AL > along with their other assets.

Those would fall under option B that I suggested from the beginning.

AL > Your remark had/has absolutely no basis in fact.

Please diagram your logic.
Click to expand...
It is like you are trying to say that a company would go under because
it chose an expensive Mac over a PC. It is severely flawed logic.

AL > And that "theftability" remark was about as stupid as it gets.

So extremely so that you didn't have to explain how, logically, right?
Click to expand...

Maybe not in the little hick town hick shop you worked in, but where I
work all the employees are honorable.
 
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:53:56 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com>
wrote:

AwlSome Auger wrote:
AA > The lindstroms are not forged. They are
AA > fully machined from ball bearing steel.

That's a strange way to pretend you have balls.
Click to expand...
Grow the fuck up, retard boy.
Did anybody else get the feeling that "life imitates life"
is somehow getting a kickback from lindstrom?

LOL
Click to expand...
Dude, you are a fucking idiot. They are not forged.

One does not have to get a kickback to simply iterate facts.

You could use a bath, however, fucktard.
 
life imitates life wrote:
Maybe not in the little hick town hick shop you worked in, but where I
work all the employees are honorable.
Click to expand...
It's not always a question of honor. In a socialist/communist environment
work (or the workers) own the tools and not each individual worker.

As China and India come up in the world, it's going to be the way things
are done.

What keeps the small craftsmen in the west going is that no one can duplicate
the work they do, at the price they do it. Eventually due to improved skill
and more automation, they will.

When it gets to the point that a designer in the US can email a design file
to a shop in Hong Kong, or elsewhere in the PRC, and get a perfect model
delivered by FedEx in a few days for 1/2 the cost of producing locally,
those companies will close quickly.

Look at what happened to the printing industry.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.
 
In article <slrnhnf38k.8km.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@cable.mendelson.com> wrote:
It's not always a question of honor. In a socialist/communist environment
work (or the workers) own the tools and not each individual worker.

As China and India come up in the world, it's going to be the way things
are done.
Click to expand...
You think India communist? ;-)

--
*I thought I saw an eye doctor on an Alaskan island, but it turned out to

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:44:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@cable.mendelson.com> wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
Maybe not in the little hick town hick shop you worked in, but where I
work all the employees are honorable.

It's not always a question of honor. In a socialist/communist environment
work (or the workers) own the tools and not each individual worker.

As China and India come up in the world, it's going to be the way things
are done.

What keeps the small craftsmen in the west going is that no one can duplicate
the work they do, at the price they do it. Eventually due to improved skill
and more automation, they will.

When it gets to the point that a designer in the US can email a design file
to a shop in Hong Kong, or elsewhere in the PRC, and get a perfect model
delivered by FedEx in a few days for 1/2 the cost of producing locally,
those companies will close quickly.

Look at what happened to the printing industry.

Geoff.
Click to expand...

Printing hell! You can "print" hard 3D prototypes now.

But according to the dumbass, buying such a machine will surely take
your company down.
 
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You think India communist? ;-)
Click to expand...
No, but what I do think is common in India, is that the low paid workers
have tools provided by their employers and the employers own the tools.

The workers are paid far too little to buy their own tools and if they were
given them, sell them to buy cheap tools and use the money for food, etc.

The philosophy may be different, but the result is the same.

Note that India is a very large place and not everyone who lives there is
poor.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.
 
life imitates life wrote:
Printing hell! You can "print" hard 3D prototypes now.

But according to the dumbass, buying such a machine will surely take
your company down.
Click to expand...
I don't know to whom you refer, but it could be thought that way. (just
a stretch, not a position I'm supporting)

Let's go back to the small company with designers and engineers and a bunch
of people (titles irrelevant) who build 3d models of things. If you buy one
of the machines, the lower skilled model/prototype makers will be replaced
by it.

This leads to the higher skilled (and older) makers retiring and leaving the
company, assuming they stay around that long. As the devices get better,
which they will over time, the more skilled makes they can replace.

In some ways it's sad, the son of a friend of mine took a course to run
a CNC device. Twenty years ago he would have been called an operator, now
his title is engineer.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:39:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@cable.mendelson.com> wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
Printing hell! You can "print" hard 3D prototypes now.

But according to the dumbass, buying such a machine will surely take
your company down.

I don't know to whom you refer, but it could be thought that way. (just
a stretch, not a position I'm supporting)

Let's go back to the small company with designers and engineers and a bunch
of people (titles irrelevant) who build 3d models of things. If you buy one
of the machines, the lower skilled model/prototype makers will be replaced
by it.
Click to expand...
NO. The company get a prot-type without having to pay the machine shop
a tooling charge. The model maker IS your designer, and his position
remains. Most companies do not have their own machine shops.
This leads to the higher skilled (and older) makers retiring and leaving the
company, assuming they stay around that long. As the devices get better,
which they will over time, the more skilled makes they can replace.
Click to expand...
Grasping at straws. We advance as we advance, and the skilled craftsmen
remain and skills get handed down. Why do you think a YF-22 costs $230M?
In some ways it's sad, the son of a friend of mine took a course to run
a CNC device. Twenty years ago he would have been called an operator, now
his title is engineer.
Click to expand...
Oh boy. I studied them at ten years old back in 1970. They call these
things paradigm shifts. Computer controls allow precision machinists to
precisely machine. Piss and moan machinists fall away as chaff. Time
and progress marches on.
 
life imitates life wrote:
Grasping at straws. We advance as we advance, and the skilled craftsmen
remain and skills get handed down. Why do you think a YF-22 costs $230M?
Click to expand...
Just because you mentioned the YF-22, I submit the following video for your
entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQOLO4U5iQ

Just in case you don't get it right away, this was shown at an Indian Defense
Conference. The man represents Israel, the woman India, and the company
who made it, Rafael, has its products placed around the stage.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:19:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@cable.mendelson.com> wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
Grasping at straws. We advance as we advance, and the skilled craftsmen
remain and skills get handed down. Why do you think a YF-22 costs $230M?

Just because you mentioned the YF-22, I submit the following video for your
entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQOLO4U5iQ
Click to expand...
Wow. Rafael makes some very advanced stuff to have such a lame ad
evolutionary position.

Hell, it is even illegal in India to make such a suggestive "movie". Or
at least it was.

Just in case you don't get it right away, this was shown at an Indian Defense
Conference. The man represents Israel, the woman India, and the company
who made it, Rafael, has its products placed around the stage.
Click to expand...
In India, even staring at a tomato in the rain was too suggestive. Big
missiles with veils draped over them.

How quaint.



Geoff.
Click to expand...
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:44:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

When it gets to the point that a designer in the US can email a design file
to a shop in Hong Kong, or elsewhere in the PRC, and get a perfect model
delivered by FedEx in a few days for 1/2 the cost of producing locally,
those companies will close quickly.
Click to expand...
Thereby releasing details of the product beyond your control and into the
hands of a foreign power, I don't think so.

How do you think Iran and North Korea get hold of technology they
shouldn't have?

I'll keep outsourced production within US jurisdiction and control, if
you don't mind.


--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)
 
How do you think Iran and North Korea get hold of technology they
shouldn't have?

I'll keep outsourced production within US jurisdiction and control, if
you don't mind.
Click to expand...
I don't mind at all. I just think that ship sailed in 1947. You would be
surprised (or maybe you would not, I don't know) how much US technology isn't.

The company name is "American", the patents were filed in the US (among other
places), but the actual invention, development and manufacturing are somewhere
else.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.
 
On 2/10/2010 12:29 PM, DaveC wrote:
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave

I picked up a barely used set of Lindstrom (Sweden)Model Rx 8142. I am
Click to expand...
not sure if the angle is more than 30 degrees, but very well balanced
and cushioned. I have forbidden the family to use them! My other cutters
look like they have been used for cutting iron nails!

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P
 
On 2/12/2010 6:41 AM, Greegor wrote:


Can anybody tell me why Xcelite nut drivers smell like puke?


--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P
 
On 2/14/2010 8:14 PM, RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:
On 2/10/2010 12:29 PM, DaveC wrote:
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles
met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut
desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave

I picked up a barely used set of Lindstrom (Sweden)Model Rx 8142. I am
not sure if the angle is more than 30 degrees, but very well balanced
and cushioned. I have forbidden the family to use them! My other cutters
look like they have been used for cutting iron nails!
Click to expand...
I guess the $6 at Skycrafters was well spent given the furor being
raised over US industry buying these Commie Rolls Royce tools versus
buying puke smelling Xcelite junk. Nothin' like the smell of Xcelite in
the morning to go with your coffee!

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P
 
RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:
On 2/12/2010 6:41 AM, Greegor wrote:

Can anybody tell me why Xcelite nut drivers smell like puke?
Click to expand...

Mold is eating the plastic.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:54:58 -0500, RFI-EMI-GUY
<Rhyolite@NETTALLY.COM> wrote:

On 2/12/2010 6:41 AM, Greegor wrote:
Can anybody tell me why Xcelite nut drivers smell like puke?
Click to expand...
Cellulose Acetate Butyrate.
<http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=384>
It's mildly aromatic forming Butyric Acid, which is what makes rancid
butter and vomit smell so disgusting.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid>
Old Sears Craftsman handles are made from the same stuff. My ancient
Xcelite nut driver set still reeks after about 40 years. The stuff is
an organic fatty acid as my plastic handles have now accumulated a
layer of white mold or fungus. You can use any chlorinated
hydrocarbon solvent to clean the plastic, but that will draw out the
Butyric Acid, resulting in even a worse smell.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:14:38 -0500, RFI-EMI-GUY <Rhyolite@NETTALLY.COM>
wrote:

On 2/10/2010 12:29 PM, DaveC wrote:
I used to own a pair of flush cutters where the jaws and the handles met at
about a 45-degree angle. Made for a nice tool for getting in between
components when you needed to nip something off flush with the PCB.

I think they were Xcelite.

I can't find anything like those Xcelites anymore. Everything is either
straight (no angle between the jaws and handles) or maybe a slight angle.

Anyone know of a good cutter that has a 45-degree angle? Flush-cut desirable
but not critical. A 1/2" (12 mm) jaw opening would be nice, though.

Thanks,
Dave

I picked up a barely used set of Lindstrom (Sweden)Model Rx 8142. I am
not sure if the angle is more than 30 degrees, but very well balanced
and cushioned. I have forbidden the family to use them! My other cutters
look like they have been used for cutting iron nails!
Click to expand...

Does that say something about you, or are you saying that the other
members of your family were never properly educated on tool care? :)
 
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:54:58 -0500, RFI-EMI-GUY <Rhyolite@NETTALLY.COM>
wrote:

On 2/12/2010 6:41 AM, Greegor wrote:


Can anybody tell me why Xcelite nut drivers smell like puke?
Click to expand...
Cause their polymer formulation sucks compared to that which
Sears uses.
 
life imitates life wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:47:27 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com
wrote:

Full context restored for unanswered questions.

On Feb 11, 2:39 am, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:
SS > I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers
SS > from a place I worked at years ago. They were
SS > going belly up and tossed out boxes of the things.
SS > I'm still using the few that I haven't given away
SS > or broken. As long as you don't use them to cut
SS > steal (hence the broken cutters) they are
SS > awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.


G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G
G > At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt
G > companies, sometimes I have seen hard,
G > tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.


lifeimitateslife wrote:
lil > I think you assign "hard and tangible" to
lil > others when it can be assigned to you.
lil > Hard and tangible evidence that your
lil > statistical analysis prowess ain't that great.
lil
lil > If the difference between buying $600
lil > worth of cheap shit tools or $5000
lil > worth of long lasting, high quality tools
lil > is a figure that you think could break
lil > just about any company, < snip

G > Are you saying that the outfit that
G > Sansui Samurai described as having
G > gone belly up did the right thing by
G > buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
G > hand tools rather than the Xcelite
G > ones which would have cost $600?

lil > No. I am saying that your claim that it is any indication of a
lil > causation for having gone bankrupt, is a fallacy, and it is.

G > That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.

G > Wasteful overspending and overcommitment
G > in purchasing are common contributors to
G > business failure. The number one cause of
G > failure for small business is undercapitalization
G > or excessive cost of money. ie Cost controls.

G > The stuff that "belly up" companies throw away
G > or liquidate MAY VERY WELL reveal important
G > symptoms of problems that destroyed them.

G > Like most people here I enjoy and appreciate
G > truly good quality tools, FOR ME.

G > As others have mentioned, theftability, loss
G > and abuse CAN MEAN that the Xcelite tools
G > provide a better Return On Investment.

G > The nature of the work, the security of
G > individuals toolboxes, the number of people
G > who might potentially forget to return a
G > tool are all variables that could decide
G > whether the ROLLS ROYCE quality of
G > nippers are a good or bad idea.

G > Fluorescent light bulbs at $ 4 a shot are
G > great if your mortgage is totally paid off.
G > If you're selling your home next week
G > or if you're a landlord the ROI's not there.

G > Businesses OWNING their own facilities
G > sometimes find that they are better off to
G > sell their own building and rent it back
G > because they can't charge off any building
G > cost if they OWN the building.

G > I neither condone this nor like it, I just report it.

G > I LOVE well machined high quality tools
G > and craftsmanship, but it doesn't always
G > show up on the P&L sheet. I wish it did.

G > You seem to be applying personal taste
G > to profitability rationalizations.

G > That's partly why "bean counters" are
G > so widely disliked, isn't it?

G > My background is in small businesses
G > where you wear many hats and can't
G > blame "that other guy".

G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G
G > Didn't I convey two alternatives there?
G
G > That the outfit failed:
G > A. BECAUSE they buy "only the finest" or
G > B. DESPITE buying "only the finest"?
G
G > It's like option A set you off so much that
G > you overlooked option B.

G > Did you miss option B, lil ?

G > Judging from the way you took it very
G > personally, I'm guessing that you worked
G > somewhere where you groused about
G > the shit Xcelite nippers all day long....

G > How is that different from the
G > MacIntosh kooks?

G > I wrote this BEFORE I read your posted
G > story about exploding at a new guy for
G > using your tools. Did somebody at the
G > company give him permission to do so?

G > Telling the new guy to use your toolbox
G > would seem to be fairly typical hazing or
G > office politics considering your reaction.

-------------------------------------



G > That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.

AL > No, but the remark was incorrect because there
AL > are plenty of examples of companies that have
AL > no problem stocking or using expensive items
AL > along with their other assets.

Those would fall under option B that I suggested from the beginning.

AL > Your remark had/has absolutely no basis in fact.

Please diagram your logic.

It is like you are trying to say that a company would go under because
it chose an expensive Mac over a PC. It is severely flawed logic.


AL > And that "theftability" remark was about as stupid as it gets.

So extremely so that you didn't have to explain how, logically, right?

Maybe not in the little hick town hick shop you worked in, but where I
work all the employees are honorable.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you assulting a co-worker is 'real' honorable.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
 
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