XP is garbage

[Guy Macon]

learning@learning.com wrote:

But if you remove the desktop from windows, it will scream as well.

Try it and see. Hit CTL-Alt-Delete to run task manager, then
terminate the explorer.exe process. Let me know haw that works
out for you.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Guy,

Actually, you aren't stuck and neither is anyone else. Look here:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMware
http://www.vmware.com/

Maybe it works for much of the software. But usually you get stung when
some driver isn't available or when HW-near stuff such as a uC
programmer has to be operated, in my case for the MSP430.

Pass-through USB and other pass-throughs have been tried before. Most of
the time it ain't working or at least you could be losing features like
step debugging. Then when that happens and you have to call tech support
they won't have a clue how your custom virtual machine runs and can't
help you.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Guy Macon]

learning@learning.com wrote:

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> said:

learning@learning.com wrote:

I don't think its so much that linux is a bad thing, but
its supporters really need some counseling.

"When anyone resorts to personal attacks, it is almost always
because they are losing an argument." -The Happy Heretic

When people are unable to come up with their own rebuttal, and have to
resort to quoting someone else, it usually means that can't think for
themselves.
- Me

*plonk*

 

In <115o12mhnqfhaa9@corp.supernews.com>, on 04/12/05
at 05:24 PM, Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> said:

learning@learning.com wrote:

But if you remove the desktop from windows, it will scream as well.

Try it and see. Hit CTL-Alt-Delete to run task manager, then terminate
the explorer.exe process. Let me know haw that works out for you.

I didn't say one could, I said comparing the Windows2K operating system
with a GUI, to the Linux operating system without the GUI is not a
reasonable thing to do.

Before XP/2000 you could just run DOS mode and windows was quicker than
anything linux had at the time. OS/2 can be run without a GUI and there is
nothing faster, more stable and more reliable than that, but few would
want to use it that way.

Anytime I lament to a Linux user that I find Linux to be too slow and
system intensive to be considered useful to me, the response is always
"take off the GUI" I think that is a pointless argument. If an SUV gets
crappy gas mileage, strip off the sheet metal/plastic and gut the frame.
Then that SUV will be a sleek, efficient, ..... unusable vehicle. Hardly a
viable solution.

Relax.... Its gonna be alright <g>

 

In <115o176nvpq5v2d@corp.supernews.com>, on 04/12/05
at 05:26 PM, Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> said:

learning@learning.com wrote:

Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> said:

learning@learning.com wrote:

I don't think its so much that linux is a bad thing, but
its supporters really need some counseling.

"When anyone resorts to personal attacks, it is almost always
because they are losing an argument." -The Happy Heretic

When people are unable to come up with their own rebuttal, and have to
resort to quoting someone else, it usually means that can't think for
themselves.
- Me

*plonk*

Thanks goodness. One down.....

 

[Joerg]

Hello Guy,

Linspire PCs are flying off the shelfs at Wal-Mart.
Here is one for 348.00:
[ http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3212103 ]

Nice. But besides Office Suite this PC seems geared towards gamers, or
kids. And 128MB RAM ain't much in these times where programmers think
RAM is the same as cheese crackers.

Here is one using Xandros for $200:
[ http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3380786 ]

Now that is indeed a good deal. When I was young there was no way I
could own a computer, even building one required lots of savings.
Nowadays you can buy them for a song.

Walmart is certainly a motor when it comes to pushing a certain item
into the marketplace, just because of their sheer size and sales volume.
But I vaguely remember that when I looked at their laptops they were
Windows based.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Mark Fergerson]

learning@learning.com wrote:

In <Do6dnU3-G8SPacbfRVn-hw@buckeye-express.com>, on 04/12/05
at 12:13 PM, Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1> said:


What the hell are you guys doing to corrupt your WinXP installs? I've
heard bad reports about the SP2, but other than that XP is more stable
and robust than 2K.
PIC programmer, etc... I have ZERO complaints about XP's stability. It is
by far, the most stable M$ OS I've ever seen. Where you guys are getting
your piss and vinegar from, sounds more like an alterior motive than
statistical data IMHO.

Let's take a look at that position..... Several hundred million users,
and you. You don't have problems, odds are some of those several million
users do. Therefore, the perception is that some people don't have
trouble, while many, many more have lots of troubles.

Why do you think that just because your system is without any problems,
everyone else's must also be that way? I have used win2K SP2 for years,
and it next to OS/2, it is the most reliable system I have ever used on a
PC. If you are trouble free, knock on wood, because that is an anomaly
for sure.

No probs here (XPHome SP2 on a Dell Dimension 2400 w/ Celeron @
2.2GHz, a mere 512M of RAM, and plain vanilla video, audio, and
cable modem). I prefer ZoneAlarm over the stupid built-in excuse for
a firewall, IrfanView over any M$ viewer, Mozilla over Exploder and
like that. I'm a big fan of "lean 'n' mean", you see. ;&gt

If you look at what they had to do to make XP out of Win2K, you will see
that, by design, XP will be more unstable than Win2K. Given the number of
installations, an occasional one will probably be fine, but many more will
suffer due to the inherent flaws created by turning a robust server into
a game machine.

Aha... I don't play games at all (OK, rarely Spider Solitaire).

I have used XP on a number of machines. From this perspective, it is not
as robust and reliable as Win2K. Everyone will see different results, so
its rather rude to imply that some people are doing anything wrong.

I'm wondering if it isn't more a matter of user-app-specific
troubles than "wrong". Why else would you mention "game machine"?
Could be that XP remains fairly stable if you don't ask it to do too
much. Might influence the stats if you break them down to include
those trying to get it to do many things, especially at once.

Some folks swear that Win98SE is the best OS, and for them, it may well
be.

Still have two boxes running that; BSOD maybe twice/monthly each.
Never had to reinstall, but then they've never been online.

Everyone's mileage will vary.

Ain't that the truth.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Ted Edwards]

Jim Thompson wrote:

I thought it stood for eXPerimental ;-)

Oh. I thought it stands for eXasPerating.

Ted

 

[Ted Edwards]

John Larkin wrote:

I sure wish I could image the hard drive to a DVD or two. TrueImage
bombs... anybody know of something that works?

DFSee will do compressed drive images and/or partition images. It will
also save/restore partition info so you can re-create your system from
scratch should it ever be necessary.

(You 'doze users would know more about that than me since I have used
OS/2-eCS for years and only once managed to blow away a partition.)

DFSee won't write DVDs (yet) but you could run it from a bootable CD and
store the compressed image(s) on your HD then write them to DVDs later.
He allows you to set max file size so you can back up to multiple
disks be they CDs or DVDs.

http://www.fsys.nl/dfsee.htm

Ted

 

[Clifford Heath]

learning@learning.com wrote:

What is this all about? Virtual PCs have been around for years, but you
still have to own and operate M$ windows to run it as a virtual machine.

When you get your Windows set up the way you want it (notice I didn't
say *like* it), you can set a savepoint. Save all your work to network
drives on the host PC, and when you shut down VMWare, simply revert to
the savepoint - and all the inevitable accumulating cruft is magically
gone!

All VMware is, along with its cousins and brothers, is another layer of
bloat to add to whatever you are running.

VMWare is the first virtual PC that runs direct on the silicon without
interpretation - Windows under Linux is sometimes actually *faster*
than native on the same hardware. You do need more RAM, but that's a
fact of life anyhow.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Jeff,

In the brick & mortar outlets?
Last I heard, all their Linux products were online-only.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/search-ng.gsp?search_query=Linspire

Might have been online. Nowadays that gets to be a drag. Last time I
went to another store to look at a steamer to clean our tile floor. It
was in the ads in the morning papers. Oh, it's probably only available
online, they said. 40 wasted miles of driving.

Problem is, unless you can touch stuff you don't know whether it is
solid or on the flimsy side. So I only buy what I already know, in my
case Dell. Their low-end systems actually come really close to Walmart's
in price.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Keith Williams]

In article <esgl5152i89nmetc0p1r5gj2dcplouact3@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:33:24 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello John,

Welcome to progress in the world of computers. Similar frustrations
here, I do not like XP at all.

Last time I bought a new laptop I could convince them to ship it with an
older and thus more stable version. For a fee, of course. This time I
could not cajole them into it so I got an XP box. And I don't like it.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

I managed to install Win2K over the crap that came on my Sony Vaio,
but it took me MONTHS of scrounging to get all the power control and
video features working correctly.

You're good! I've been told that Sony tries its best to make this
impossible.

But this past summer I bought a tower "bare", formatted and installed
Win2K... worked "just ducky".

Sure, you had normal hardware. It wasn't in the manufacturer's
interest to make it hard for you to install an OS.

--
Keith

 

[Carl D. Smith]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:57:15 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

I managed to install Win2K over the crap that came on my Sony Vaio,
but it took me MONTHS of scrounging to get all the power control and
video features working correctly.

I was tempted to do that as well. But besides finding another license
for NT there is another lurking issue: Often new hardware isn't
supported anymore. Even some of the SW I use, such as the scanner and
printer driver explicitly says it will not work with any OS other than XP.

You don't need to find a license for NT, if the system you bought
came with XP installed. Buried away in the EULA for XP is this
paragraph below that basically says that you can install over XP
with 2000, NT, or 98, using any old disc you have around, if I
interpret it correctly.


* Use of Previous Version Of Software. In lieu of installing
and using Microsoft Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE,
you may install, use, access, display and run ONE of
the following versions: Microsoft Windows 2000
Professional, Microsoft Windows NT Workstation version
4.0 or Microsoft Windows 98 (Second Edition) ("Downgrade
Software") on the COMPUTER, provided (1) you agree that
Downgrade Software support will NOT be provided hereunder
by Manufacturer, MS or Microsoft Corporation, their
affiliates or subsidiaries: (2) you agree that neither
Manufacturer, MS nor Microsoft Corporation will provide
you with the Downgrade Software or media; (3) you may
not loan, rent, lease, lend or otherwise transfer the
CD or back-up copy of Microsoft Windows XP Professional
to another end user, except as otherwise provided in
the transfer provisions of this EULA; and (4) such
Downgrade Software shall be deemed "SOFTWARE" for the
purposes of this EULA and use of the Downgrade Software
shall be in compliance with all the terms of this EULA,
except that, with respect to Microsoft Windows 98 (Second
Edition), your Connection Maximum shall be limited to
five (5) Devices.

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:r3dl51lsq51p8stn501786q53op9dkj1le@4ax.com...

I think the problem is Outside of the Box, about 40 cm from the screen!

It's inclined to create funny-named folders that can't be opened and
can't be deleted. Good thing I have a big hard drive.

No it is not - Something might, like virus or yourself acidentally enabling
folder sharing with the internet (the funny folders it *does* create for
itself are invisible *unless* made visible by user poking around where user
should not really go (unless he/she/it knows what will/can happen)

Seems like every time I run Registry Mechanic is finds a bunch of
problems, sometimes 100 or so. That's scairy.

Running stuff like that is what's scary: How do you know that the 3-rd party
product work and is even compatible with whatever instance of XP you have
(after many upgrades)?

There is no need for "utilities" in win XP except for a Virus Scanner.

The three most important things about Windows are still: reboot,
reboot, and reboot.

That's because you screwed it up (or your computer is broken)!

There are three kinds of people who will suffer under XP:

1) The "tinkerer" - the person who *have to* change settings on stuff and
poke around in the system, maybe deleting some files "because they should't'
be there".

2) The "gadgetteer" - the person who *just must have* a huge package of
arcane "system utilities" acquired over a long period and seldom compatible
with the OS version at hand, (said utilities mostly duplicating
functionality which the OS actually has implemented correctly anyway).

3) The "control freak" - the person who *absolutely must* disagree with the
OS/application on every aspect of every install so that *everything* is
customized, unique, impossible to explain to support and entirely untested!


The people, who do not have problems do the following:

Let XP and applications install *where they want*, *with the configuration
they want* on *one single partition*.

i.e. Stop Interfering With the Tools! Go with the flow, Let XP and -
everybody else i.e. the apps - do "their thing" and it will work!
Guaranteed!!

XP is an OK product - the First out of Microsoft.

If you MUST "configure" get Linux!

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:%sB6e.530$J12.147@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

Yes. I am just thankful that my car does not need an operating system to
work.

Probably does - if it has an ECU or ABS

Maybe some day my toaster will but then I'll just roast my bread
on the Weber barbeque.

Probably Toaster has joined Legion too - my pop-up toaster has a CPU in it.

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:fMz6e.1731$dT4.1505@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

Hello Jim,

I managed to install Win2K over the crap that came on my Sony Vaio,
but it took me MONTHS of scrounging to get all the power control and
video features working correctly.

Win2K in a nutshell - it is crap, about as bad as a 1995 Win-NT with the
1999 "Windows Me" GUI glued onto it (which is what it really is).

We have it here, Corporate Install. So I get to compare with XP everyday.

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"Chris Carlen" <crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote in message
news:d3em74031k3@news1.newsguy.com...

The PC OS and office software industry is a horrible mess, and there's
no relief in sight. Linux was a reaction to this brokenness. But it
isn't providing ordinary users with an escape path, only a narrow group
of highly technically skilled developers/users.

The problem is first and foremost that the desktop sucks, there is about
1.05 interpretations of "desktop" per user.

Linux is shared Infrastructure - something to build a great product from.
Linux is not a product per se; letting the Users build a desktop system is
like shipping a container of automotive parts to people and expect them to
build great cars for themselves.

A lot of the Telecom infrastructure these days run on various Linux
incarnations; because it is non-ipr-encumbered, stable, there are "batteries
included" (i.e. Tools), and the Source is there to version control

I am becoming convinced
that Linux will never become the solution to the Microsoft problem, for
reasons the Linux community will never ever be able to admit.

That is because there is no "Microsoft Problem", it's a "user meets complex
system with internals exposed" problem:

The problem is that when you give control of complex tools with
not-entirely-undrestood dependencies into the hands of users, they *will*
break something beyond their ability to repair. Users break windows, they
break Linux, they *try* to break other things like Mobile Phones but since
the software is flashed in, they do not have so much luck ;-)

Or think about if TV's came with the casings removed, 20% of all users would
instantly kill themselves while breaking the TV - TV's work reliably because
the users cannot get into them. ;-)

So could computers.

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

<learning@learning.com> wrote in message
news:425bf81b$1$woehfu$mr2ice@news.aros.net...

In <Do6dnU3-G8SPacbfRVn-hw@buckeye-express.com>, on 04/12/05
at 12:13 PM, Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1> said:

Let's take a look at that position..... Several hundred million users,
and you. You don't have problems, odds are some of those several million
users do. Therefore, the perception is that some people don't have
trouble, while many, many more have lots of troubles.

Errr:

Odds are very much *higher* that very, very few people out of serveral
hundred millions actually

a) have problems.
b) know that they do.
c) know enough to gripe about it on usenet.
d) but not enough to leave it be ...

From experience with tech support: the people who have problems with XP, are
people who cannot leave it well enough alone. Default Install *works* -
because that is *the one* that was Tested - try anything else and *you will
suffer*.!!

*That's* how people break their installs.

PS:

Microsoft could eliminate 80% of the XP/Office failures by removing all
forms of interactivity from the installer!!

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"Mark Jones" <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
newso6dnU3-G8SPacbfRVn-hw@buckeye-express.com...

What the hell are you guys doing to corrupt your WinXP installs? I've
heard bad
reports about the SP2, but other than that XP is more stable and robust
than 2K.

They are "Customizing It" - the root of all Evil!

The OS'es and Apps (Linux & Windows) allude to being user-customizable by
giving free acces to many, many options; However, any combination of
applications, OS, patches, and options is a new configuration that one
should really Test and Verify.

This is Impossible to do before the sun becomes a lump of coal, so only the
Default can be assumed to have been tried by enough people to hit most bugs.

Having being bitten many times by a few characters different in some obscure
config file, We now blow a lot of time here on nitting with versioning and
change control for *everything* for systems integrated into embedded
Linux'en so that they do not fail in the field (<joke except boxes in Hawaii
and the one in Rio /joke> ;-).

 

[Guy Macon]

Clifford Heath wrote:

wrote:

All VMware is, along with its cousins and brothers, is another layer of
bloat to add to whatever you are running.

VMWare is the first virtual PC that runs direct on the silicon without
interpretation - Windows under Linux is sometimes actually *faster*
than native on the same hardware. You do need more RAM, but that's a
fact of life anyhow.

You are wasting your time replying to someone who doesn't listen
to reason and who thinks that personal attacks strengthen his
arguments. I advise killfing and moving on to those of us who
wish to have a civil discussion about the topic at hand.