XP is garbage

[Joel Kolstad]

John,

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
newsr1m51dbd08rbi98cmpvljq7oadf6stmad@4ax.com...

Because all that will do is give me reliable storage of a damaged OS.
It's not so much disk failures I'm concerned about, it's os corruption
and loss of files.

You might want to look at Symantec's "GoBack" program -- works FAR better
than, e.g., Windows "checkpoint" restores, in my experience.

 

[Guy Macon]

Joerg wrote:

What ever happened to Linux with a Windows extension (Lindows?)?

Microsoft paid Lindows $20 million to change the name to Linspire.
[ http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,116947,00.asp ]

Linspire PCs are flying off the shelfs at Wal-Mart.
Here is one for 348.00:
[ http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3212103 ]

Here is one using Xandros for $200:
[ http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3380786 ]

Also see [ http://www.xandros.com/ ] and [ http://www.linspire.com/ ].

--
Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>

 

[Guy Macon]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Jeff,

Lindows is now called Linspire (lawsuit).

Yup. Microsoft sued, got stomped on by the courts, and settled
with an agreement to pay Lindows $20 million to become Linspire.

It was gunning for a Windows-like look & feel
and by default is about as insecure as Windoze.

That doesn't sound encouraging. Then I ask myself, what good does it do
if it doesn't offer a significant stability advantage?

You have to decide whether you want something that runs like Windows
or doesn't run like Windows. If it's like Windows, it's insecure.
If it's secure the user has to do some things in a non-windows
fashion, such as not running as root/administrator.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:43:13 -0700, "Joel Kolstad"
<JKolstad71HatesSpam@Yahoo.Com> wrote:

"j.b. miller" <invalidjbmiller@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:3_B6e.763$K24.697@read1.cgocable.net...
The old adage..if it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to operating
systems!
I still use W98,1st,rock stable,no blue screens of death,etc.

I think Windows 98 in general is far less stable in Win2K and XP. In
particular, ANY PROGRAM WHATSOEVER can willy-nilly can and write anywhere in
the PC's memory, to its I/O ports, etc... yikes!

That's one think I liked about '98: I could write programs that did
I/O without going through DLLs or drivers. I could dimension a
PowerBasic integer array at a physical address that just happened to
be 64K of VME register space. So variable V(dev) directly accessed a
VME module register!

It's not the application programs that punch holes in Windows. It's
usually Windows itself.

John

 

[Guy Macon]

Joerg wrote:

The only rock-stable OSes I know are DOS and QNX.

That has been my experience as well. Those are the ones I reach for
when designing critical systems.

 

[Guy Macon]

Joel Kolstad wrote:

...and unfortunately I suspect that QNX's days might be numbered with so
many companies now switching to Linux for their embedded OSes... :-(

Not until Linux has a true Microkernel. No monolithic kernal
can possibly be as robust and reliable as a microkernel is.

 

[Ted Edwards]

Chris Carlen wrote:

At this point I would pay serious personal money, say $500-$600 for a PC
OS that was very solid, with the flexibility and features that I like
about Linux, and with the vast pool of applications and hardware
available for Windows. But it doesn't exist. And the Mac hardware is

Have you looked at eCS? It certainly has the ease of use and the
reliability. It's still a bit of a pain finding certain classes of
accessories but it is getting better.

Ted

 

[Ted Edwards]

learning@learning.com wrote:

Not that I am touting M$, by any means. Linux, and that old OS/2 thing
make it look like a tinker toy in that department.

OS/2 is still alive and well in its new incarnation as eCS. That's what
I run. I still have W2K on this machine but it is only used for a
couple of apps and I expect them to go away soon.

Ted

 

[Joel Kolstad]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:a1im51lp6ef2k607686mv96u5ru07pfkfv@4ax.com...

That's one think I liked about '98: I could write programs that did
I/O without going through DLLs or drivers.

Well, with Win2K and XP you can get "generic" drivers that will let you play
directly in memory or I/O space all you want, and I don't think there's
anything wrong with using such drivers for one's own
testing/learning/hacking purposes, but in general I LIKE the idea that the
OS provides some amount of protection from errant programs.

It's not the application programs that punch holes in Windows. It's
usually Windows itself.

In Win2K and XP I'd tend to agree... in Win98 I think it was far more often
the applications.

In Win2K and XP there are a lot of pretty crappy drivers out there. Even
Creative Devices had drivers for their sound cards (at one time) that failed
on multi-processor systems, which is pretty embarassing IMO.

---Joel

 

In <vlI6e.22975$vt1.3094@edtnps90>, on 04/12/05
at 04:43 AM, Ted Edwards <Ted_Espamless@telus.net> said:

learning@learning.com wrote:
Not that I am touting M$, by any means. Linux, and that old OS/2 thing
make it look like a tinker toy in that department.

OS/2 is still alive and well in its new incarnation as eCS. That's what
I run. I still have W2K on this machine but it is only used for a
couple of apps and I expect them to go away soon.

That is good to hear. Its still the finest OS written for the PC. I have
to use PCB/SCH software to make any money, so I am in Win2K and rarely get
back to OS/2 anymore because of the CAD requirements I have.

I did spring for $50 and got Object Desktop which is a very nice addon to
windows that lets me have a desktop that looks a lot like OS/2 with the
toolbar/launchpad instead of icons all over and the menu bar. It lets me
"skin" the apps to appear like OS/2 as well, so that most people who see
it have no idea that its Windows. Of course its still windows under it
all, but time has made me into someone who just wants to be productive,
having spent twenty years hacking and horsing around trying to avoid M$
altogether. If you use CAD, it can't be done <shrug>

Nice to know others are still hanging with eCS. I wish I could....

JB

 

[Paul Burke]

John Larkin wrote:

The three most important things about Windows are still: reboot,
reboot, and reboot.

I thought Microsoft was part of the American Constitution, and you swore
loyalty every July 4th?

 

[Daniel Haude]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:20:53 -0700,
Chris Carlen <crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote
in Msg. <d3em74031k3@news1.newsguy.com>

Linux might very well be getting worse. The different distros all have
their own way of doing things, so no apps work the same across all of
them.

This configurability is exactly what I think is keeping Linux from gaining
more desktop popularity. The look and feel of Windows isn't configurable,
so it works in the same lame way everywhere, which is a great plus.

And no matter what I do, more and more of the web sites that I simply
must use to run my life, have show stopping quirks or issues unless IE
is used. Or even more depressingly, they work with an alternative
browser such as Firefox on Windows, but not on Linux.

I'm very happy with firefox on Linux. I've used Opera before, but Firefox
seems to be even better.

isn't providing ordinary users with an escape path, only a narrow group
of highly technically skilled developers/users. I am becoming convinced
that Linux will never become the solution to the Microsoft problem, for
reasons the Linux community will never ever be able to admit.

That's because it's hard to admit that the advantages of a better system
are its main obstacles against wider acceptance.

At this point I would pay serious personal money, say $500-$600 for a PC
OS that was very solid, with the flexibility and features that I like
about Linux, and with the vast pool of applications and hardware
available for Windows.

Linux/Unix already is that, except that to really unleash its power
(and to fix things if they break) you need to get somewhat familiar with
its mechanics, which can't and shouldn't be expected from a normal home or
office user.

Linux will only ever make it to desktops in offices where there is a
sysadmin to keep things running, or with people like me who actually know
how things work. Which means that Linux is dead for the mass desktop and
always has been.

--Danial (happy Linux user for 15 years)

 

[Daniel Haude]

On 11 Apr 2005 18:23:10 -0700,
JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> wrote
in Msg. <1113268990.624221.62420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

OS X pops up sudo dialogs for priviledged tasks.
It seems that Apple is getting it right.

....because there's a UNIX-like kernel throbbing under the hood.

--D.

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"Chris Carlen" <crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> schreef in bericht
news:d3em74031k3@news1.newsguy.com...

[snip]

of highly technically skilled developers/users. I am becoming convinced
that Linux will never become the solution to the Microsoft problem, for
reasons the Linux community will never ever be able to admit.

That's not the Chris that I know But I agree totally. Linux (+ apps)
grows bigger and bigger, becomes the same 'bloatware' as windows is.
What we see on the outside of our computer, the screen and printer, suggests
that it is all pretty simple and should be able to work perfect. But it
is so incredibly complicated to make it all happen. Third parties adding
hardware and drivers that have small flaws, end-users that install all
kinds of crap software. Maintaining backward-compatiblity even back to
the old dos stuff. What can you expect. The fact that it even sort of
works, is a miracle and nothing less.

It would be nice if Microsoft stopped adding features and focussed on
improving reliability. In a way they are already doing this. But it's
not only Microsoft. Try installing one of those HP multipurpose printers
with build-in scanner and cardreader. What a load of junk is that. Or
look at Acrobat reader, what happened to that lean and mean reader? Yes
there are alternative readers, but they don't work 100% either.

If we had the kind of competition in the software industry as we have
say, between AMD and Intel, then we might really have something
worthwhile. Two or more 99.9% compatible PC OSes trying to one-up each
other all the time on straightforwardness and stability.

99.9% compatible. That is exactly the problem. Software running on
our machines is 99.9% compatible with the OS. Tasks within the
the OS are 99.9% compatible with each other. Drivers are 99.9%
compatible with the hardware. The alternative browser that is 99.9%
compatible, the PDF reader that is 99.9% compatible. In short, you
have a 99.9% reliable machine. The missing 0.1% gives you those 5
minutes to reboot your machine twice a day

Oh what a dream.

A perfect OS only opens your eyes wider to other misery in life.

At this point I would pay serious personal money, say $500-$600 for a PC
OS that was very solid, with the flexibility and features that I like
about Linux, and with the vast pool of applications and hardware
available for Windows. But it doesn't exist. And the Mac hardware is
way too expensive, though it's a possible contender for the first
criterion, except for the applications.

I'm not complaining. Many days I don't need to reboot my windows PC.
If I am going to do a lot of work in Protel, I know I will have
to reboot once or twice, often *after* closing Protel. It's not
that bad.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Frank Bemelman
<f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote (in
<425b8934$0$141$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl&gt about 'XP is garbage', on Tue,
12 Apr 2005:

99.9% compatible. That is exactly the problem. Software running on our
machines is 99.9% compatible with the OS. Tasks within the the OS are
99.9% compatible with each other. Drivers are 99.9% compatible with the
hardware. The alternative browser that is 99.9% compatible, the PDF
reader that is 99.9% compatible. In short, you have a 99.9% reliable
machine.

If you have six things that are each 99.9% compatible, the overall
compatibility is 99.4%. If incompatibility = crash, then you have a
99.4% reliable machine. But the number of potentially-fatal
incompatibilities is probably much larger. For 100, the overall figure
is 90.48%
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Richard Hosking]

The latest Mandrake distros are easy enough to install and seem pretty
solid on several computers now for me. My only complaint is their
commercial approach makes it hard to install the latest patches etc.
I only do standard apps such as office/internet/mail etc., so I dont
need M$ much at all. Have installed Kdevelop's latest version after a
bit of a struggle, but this is a terrific IDE for code (C/C++,
PERL,PHP,scripting, Python etc) The machine works in a home network with
XP machines and a Linux firewall. The XP computers are pretty buggy, but
then the kids are always downloading stuff and picking up all sorts of
garbage

R

John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:31:45 -0400, "j.b. miller"
invalidjbmiller@cogeco.ca> wrote:


The old adage..if it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to operating systems!
I still use W98,1st,rock stable,no blue screens of death,etc. I finally
figured out to NOT buy the 'latest and greatest' PC as long as this one does
what I want, i don't care about the rest of the world. I'm a 2 finger typer
and need an ISA slot for my eprom burner. The $50 scanner (USB 1) works fine
too.
Nice thing about W98 is that I have my D drive as a clone so IF C goes
'funny' I can pull D out and slide it in C's slide mount. Simple,easy, the
way it should be.
Now if I could only figure out why the 'screen saver display timer' goes
funny some days, I'd be real happy.
XP = Xtra Problems

jay




I ran 98 up until a month ago, when my new Dells arrived (one for
work, one for home) and I made the cutover to XP; I have almost
recovered from the experience. 98 was OK, but crashed a lot for me and
had to be rebooted daily to be reliable. It did run DOS apps well,
including ones that did real, direct I/O.

Each new Dell has 2 identical hard drives. I bought TrueImage to clone
the drives; one master setup on one pc gets cloned to all three other
drives. I wanted to also image the pristine setup to DVDs, which
TrueImage is supposed to do, too, but that doesn't work. So I ordered
two more identical hard drives and I'll image onto them, pull, and
stash them in storage for when something breaks.

Our realtime test sets all run DOS.

John

 

[Winfield Hill]

Richard Hosking wrote...

The latest Mandrake distros are ...

Mandriva distros http://www.mandriva.com/




--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Guy Macon]

Frank Bemelman wrote:

That's not the Chris that I know But I agree totally. Linux
(+ apps) grows bigger and bigger, becomes the same 'bloatware'
as windows is.

Try Slackware. It runs great on 32MB of RAM and 520MB of hard disk.
Use Icewm instead of Gnome or KDE, or simply stay on the command line.
Use Links or w3m for your browser. Then come back and tell me whether
Linux is as bloated as Windows.

Also see [ http://www.volny.cz/basiclinux/oldpc/ ].

 

[Chris Carlen]

Ken Smith wrote:

In article <r3dl51lsq51p8stn501786q53op9dkj1le@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
[...]
It's still slow and buggy.

I had a XP machine at work for a while. When a 2GHz machine can't keep up
with my typing something is very wrong.

Now I have a multiboot system. It runs SuSE and/or Win98. I use the SuSE
to make a backup image of the windows side so I can just plunk it back in
when the Win98 mungs its files.


[...]
The three most important things about Windows are still: reboot,
reboot, and reboot.

No, its reboot, reinstall, reboot.

BTW: I have found that well written windows apps run just fine under
"wine". Unfortunately only about 1% or less of windows apps are well
written.

LTSpice qualifies. Works great, except for one minor problem. When I
try to print, circles don't make it through the PS interpreter. But the
application is actually quite stable.


Good day!


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[Chris Carlen]

learning@learning.com wrote:

There is no such thing a a real *nux box anymore, as they are ALL
different. Apps don't work across the board, they have to be compiled for
the specific distro and often become unusable when the next revision hits.
Its all quite a joke, and most laughable.

Yeah.

As was said at the front of this linux stuff, Linux is splintered, and has
no future outside of the hard core hacker willing to invest hundreds of
hours every time a new distro hits. I ain't touting it. I have tried at
least a dozen apps, and the only thing that sucks more than linux itself
is the people who live and die by it, and go ballistic when you say
anything negative about it.<shrug> Others enjoy it, so I posted what I had
actually seen by using it, not just some quotes from a microsoft loving
web site.

And when someone with 9 years of Linux experience, not just occasionally
tinkering but *using* it every day for almost all my PC desktop
computing goes and posts something negative, they call me a troll.

Pathetic.



--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.