Wind turbines used to absorb a power surplus?...

[Ricky]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 1:24:06 PM UTC-4, alan_m wrote:

On 18/03/2023 16:45, John Larkin wrote:


Does not make any sense. I think it is done with hydroelectric where
water is pumped back up at night when usage is down but what do you
do, pump back wind?

See:
https://www.energy-storage.news/delivering-pumped-hydro-storage-in-the-uk-after-a-three-decade-interlude/

\"Up to days at a time\".

Yep, this 1,500 MW scheme will make up for the UK shortfall when the
wind doesn\'t blow. The difference for the UK wind between blowing and
not blowing is close to 15,000 MW so to just backup the existing
windmills we need 10 of these pumped storage facilities. When even more
windmills are built the shortfall when the wind is absent requires
perhaps 20 to 30 of these facilities. And what happens for when the wind
doesn\'t blow for 14 days and the pumped water head runs dry after a
couple of days?

This scheme probably only makes financial sense if we rely on windmills
where they can sell back the electricity at 10x the going rate when
there is no wind.

Maybe I should check my sources, but I thought UK peak usage was 50 to 60 GW. So you are talking about backing up the entire UK power generation capacity?

Yeah, it will eventually come to that, but not soon. As costs drop, this will become more feasible.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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[alan_m]

On 18/03/2023 17:50, Tim+ wrote:

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

The only incandescent bulb I have is in the microwave,

What kind of bulb do you have in your oven?

Gas hob
Combined microwave/oven

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 08:31:25 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Windmills will still be useless when there\'s no wind. Pity that there\'s
no good way to store electricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Northfield_Mountain_(hydroelectricity_facility)

https://www.wbur.org/news/2016/12/02/northfield-mountain-hydroelectric-
station

The company I worked for at the time was a distributor for Trabon
automatic lubrication systems. I didn\'t have much to do with that part of
the business but tagged along with the crew doing the installation one
day.

It was impressive. There were many workstations throughout the cavern each
equipped with every Rigid pipe tool known to man, all virginal. That was
\'71. I wonder what it looks lie today?

All you need is a river and a handy mountain.

 

[alan_m]

On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds to
read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:31:38 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Windmills will still be useless when there\'s no wind. Pity that
there\'s no good way to store electricity.

False, if one has an electric car.
The \'useless when\' formula is weak; every roll of toilet paper is useless
beside the toilet... until the time is right, you don\'t use it.

But, it\'s good to have it.

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:36:50 +0000, alan_m wrote:

But you probably would have got the bulbs cheaper by purchasing them
yourself rather than overpaying on your bills and then being given some
of your own money back (via bulbs) minus an administration charge.

There was never \"FREE\" LED bulbs - you just paid for them in a
convoluted way.

I\'m in a power co-op that sent out CFLs and the LEDs. The mail person
really loved the pile of boxes suddenly appearing to be delivered.

The co-op also pays out a dividend. It isn\'t much, usually around $50, but
it\'s refreshing getting money back. It is associated with the Bonneville
Power Authority so we weren\'t hit with massive rate increases after the
deregulation fiasco.

Historically it goes back to Roosevelt\'s Rural Electrification Act of
1936. The utility companies didn\'t want to get involved so the farmers and
ranchers formed co-ops.

I\'m waiting for the Rural Fiber Cable Act but I don\'t think that\'s going
to happen.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:

On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.

Never heard or that long. Been once a month here for over 70 years that
I know of. 30 seconds? Really? So five minutes for 10 houses. Try it
and get back to us.

 

[Peeler]

On 18 Mar 2023 18:49:58 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I\'m in a power co-op

You are, first and foremost, full of yourself, pathological bigmouth!

--
Gossiping \"lowbrowwoman\" about herself:
\"Usenet is my blog... I don\'t give a damn if anyone ever reads my posts
but they are useful in marshaling [sic] my thoughts.\"
MID: <iteioiF60jmU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Peeler]

On 18 Mar 2023 18:40:46 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Northfield_Mountain_(hydroelectricity_facility)

https://www.wbur.org/news/2016/12/02/northfield-mountain-hydroelectric-
station

The company I worked for

Oh, no! Blabbermouth is at it again...

<FLUSH crap>

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
\"My family loaded me into a \'51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in \'52. I\'m alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going.\"
MID: <j2kuc1F3ejsU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 05:12:49 +1100, Jack Harry Teesdale
<noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 17:00, Rod Speed wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote

And in the UK that comes from green tax.

Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.

It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.
And that is a completely insane thing to do, tax everyone,
pump that money thru the bureaucracy and staight back to
precisely the same people that it came from in the first place.
Only advantage is that in theory it forces people to have
CFL light bulbs which they would otherwise not bother
with and might see some use them given they are \'free\'
We were never actually stupid enough to have a green tax
and our electricity suppliers did hand out free CFL light
bulbs. I ony ever used a couple of the dozens I got given.

There are probably thousands of CFL\'s in their original boxes stored in
cupboards in houses in the UK that have NEVER been used!

Yeah, I have two dozen. Bet there are millions in the UK.

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 06:44:53 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 89-year-old senile Australian
cretin\'s pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 3:09:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.

Never heard or that long. Been once a month here for over 70 years that
I know of. 30 seconds? Really? So five minutes for 10 houses. Try it
and get back to us.

Once upon a time, a water meter at my house was read manually. I think these guys run past the tiny display and copy it down as they fly through the neighborhood. One reading was not considered carefully and was off by one in the largest digit, or maybe parallax prevented him from seeing the largest digit. It was like an old style odometer mechanism, but set further back from the cutout in the tiny outdoor unit.

So I get a bill for something like a thousand dollars. When I tried to dispute it, they said I must have a water leak! lol It must be one hell of a water leak. I did the math and pointed out it would be a gallon every 15 seconds. I don\'t think I can fill a gallon jug in 15 seconds from any of my taps. I had to call back a second time and insist they address the issue.. The read the meter again and got it right. My bill was more like $50. Maybe that was quarterly...

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rod Speed]

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds to
read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years.

Knock on the door

Our meter boxes are all on an outside wall of the house.

> with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters,

Same here, peak and off peak meter.

> figures entered in hand held pad,

Same here.

> goodbye.

They never say anything to the house occupant
here unless there is what looks like a dog that
might bite them in the backyard. Since I have 3
massive great 8\'x8\' patio doors between where
I sit and where he walks from the back gate to
the meter box half way up the 100\' long N wall,
I normall can hear him open the 4\'x4\' metal
door with a horizontal hinge on the top edge
and might get a wave as he leaves when he
can see me looking at him leaving.

 

[Bob F]

On 3/18/2023 7:27 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-03-18 12:17, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power stations
they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home.  And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can
be willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing
output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

Yes, they need a different kind of inverter, way more expensive, to do
that.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

On the other hand, any synchronous generator (without electronics) runs
as a motor if the voltage on the output rises (constant speed, though).
I don\'t suppose they like that on hydro places, could do damage.

There are hydro power plants that pump water up during low usage and use
the motors as generators when more is needed.

 

[Bob F]

On 3/18/2023 12:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.



Never heard or that long.  Been once a month here for over 70 years that
I know of.  30 seconds?  Really?  So five minutes for 10 houses.  Try it
and get back to us.

Indoor meter for someone that is never home?

That bill could really hurt.

 

[Peeler]

\"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing \"the big, hard
man\" on the InterNet.\"

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743467.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-18, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 3/18/2023 12:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.



Never heard or that long.  Been once a month here for over 70 years that
I know of.  30 seconds?  Really?  So five minutes for 10 houses.  Try it
and get back to us.

Indoor meter for someone that is never home?

That bill could really hurt.

I\'ve never had an indoor electric or gas meter. Water meters are indoors
to prevent freezing, but now they have a transmitter (or something) wired
from the indoor meter to the outside of the house. Unless they\'ve
become even fancier, a truck drives down the street and reads the
signal from each water meter.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/18/2023 4:41 PM, Bob F wrote:

On 3/18/2023 12:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered
in hand held pad, goodbye.



Never heard or that long.  Been once a month here for over 70 years
that I know of.  30 seconds?  Really?  So five minutes for 10 houses.
Try it and get back to us.

Indoor meter for someone that is never home?

That bill could really hurt.

When I lived in Philadelphia, indoor meters were the norm. There was a
time that mom was home so not a big deal. They would also leave a card
with the meter dials printed and you filled out the position and mailed
it.

There are a lot of stores from meter readers too. Some houses had coal
stoves and people burned all sort of stuff, such as every other step
going to the basement. They also got to know the exhibitionists on the
route too.

My electric meter here is read daily. I can go on line or my phone and
see current charges and projected bill at any time.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 4:59:49 PM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-03-18, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 3/18/2023 12:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.



Never heard or that long. Been once a month here for over 70 years that
I know of. 30 seconds? Really? So five minutes for 10 houses. Try it
and get back to us.

Indoor meter for someone that is never home?

That bill could really hurt.
I\'ve never had an indoor electric or gas meter. Water meters are indoors
to prevent freezing, but now they have a transmitter (or something) wired
from the indoor meter to the outside of the house. Unless they\'ve
become even fancier, a truck drives down the street and reads the
signal from each water meter.

We don\'t have meters here. I\'m 3 miles from a nuclear plant and that power is too cheap to meter!

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 18-Mar-23 10:39 pm, Peeler wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else, another brain dead,
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing output.

And the second retarded troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE appeared and willingly
fed the attention-starved trolling Scottish swine!

You could kill-file me. I promise I won\'t mind.

Sylvia.