Why Won't a Frozen Battery Start a Vehicle.

[Denny B]

As you state below that is how it is in the world I
live in in Alberta.
I observe many people who try to participate in a thread
have no concept what its like to face a frozen vehicle day
after day in winter.

I've just removed the extension cable from my block heater
started my vehicle ( have a 3 day old battery) removed the snow
scraped the ice off my windows and will leave shortly to face
the day. After work it will be repeated.

Denny B

As the man said- you obviously do not have experience in trying to
start an
engine at -30 to -45. At -30, running the vehicle for a little
while every
2-3 hours will work, if it isn't too windy. As you say, viscosity is
a
problem but the main factor is that the battery simply says to hell
with it
and may turn the engine a few slow revs then die. A squirt of ether
in the
carb may help- not always. Flooding is another problem and if that
occurs,
you might as well give up. Warming the battery is often as helpful
as
warming the engine coolant. Do both if possible. Then, if you do get
started, there are other problems such as "square" wheels and, if
cold
enough, the wheel bearings and steering gear are frozen solid
(usually
bout -45 to -50).
Note that the US government hired Canadian planes and crews, who
specialise
in arctic operations, for emergency rescues at the South Pole and
even then
special precautions had to be taken. They went to those with the
knowhow
and experience.
--
Don Kelly
dhky@peeshaw.ca
remove the urine to answer

 

[Bob Myers]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
newsgft10pa826a19v3mb637u9ka5cqnrik32@4ax.com...

I used to build racing engines... way back in the early seventies
thru the early eighties.

Since elsewhere, the inimitable "Dark Matter" (does anyone
else get the impression that this name refers to what in most
people would be considered "gray" matter?) says that he's now
45, in the "early seventies" this poser would have been in junior
high and high school. In DarkSpeak, "build racing engines"
rather clearly translates to "changed the oil filer on Mom's
Gremlin"...

 

[DarkMatter]

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:04:10 -0700, "Bob Myers"
<nospamplease@addressinvalid.com> Gave us:

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
newsgft10pa826a19v3mb637u9ka5cqnrik32@4ax.com...

I used to build racing engines... way back in the early seventies
thru the early eighties.

Since elsewhere, the inimitable "Dark Matter" (does anyone
else get the impression that this name refers to what in most
people would be considered "gray" matter?) says that he's now
45, in the "early seventies" this poser would have been in junior
high and high school.

I built engines with my older brother all through school. I THEN
built engines in a machine shop after high school as one of my first
jobs. I started in '68 at 8 years old. My dad worked at the Cinti.
Milacron, and I had quite a garage full of gear. I learned more about
things mechanical than any 8 year old before or since. I spent years
doing it before ever taking a course as well.

Do you have a problem with that?

In DarkSpeak, "build racing engines"
rather clearly translates to "changed the oil filer on Mom's
Gremlin"...

You are about as clueless as the other troll bastards in here.
Your stupid, unqualified assessment clearly translates into typical
male ignorance. So... how's that shoe taste?

I knew about 100 thousandth inch tolerances before you likely knew
what a cadillac division was, much less what detroit was all about.
Fits and tolerances were my breakfast, little boy.

Cinti. Milacron made the machines that made the auto industry
function.

I have seen more machine tools than you probably ever will.

In any case, your analysis is ignorant. You know nothing of my
life's experiences, and idiots like you should be shot where you stand
for your blatantly retarded behavior. I was repairing watches before
you even knew what a millimeter was. Much less sub-millimeter shaft
sizes. If you want to call me a liar to my face, I'll gladly knock
your dick in the dirt for it, and I'll use my valve spring compressor
on your head!

You couldn't be more without a clue, boy.

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <57dv105hhhjel937dicceqtjcq7h6v8dsk@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:25:55 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

You're a fool, as you constantly demonstrate. Note that you
didn't mention oil viscosity until *I* brought it up.

] Leave it to some usenet twit to think that he is the sole initiator
in someone else's thought processes.

You *fool*. Your first, and simple, thought was air density.
That has little or nothing to do with starting a car at -30C.
The battery and oil temperature have *everything* to do with it.

You couldn't be more retarded, boy.

When corrected you yell obscenities, then move the goal posts.
Everyone knows your style by no DimBUlb. It's time to dump that
dumb moniker you use and get a new one. ...perhaps
"KickMeIcantHelpItButImStupid" would suit you better.

What a maroon.

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <9bdv10pv1c2636b3lctuvbs2768sus0flq@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:25:55 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

DimBulb? Have you ever heard of CCA? DO you have a *clue* what
it means? ...I thought not.

You have said this twice now.

I knew what it meant at ten, 35 years ago. You likely did not.

You're a fool. Why did you say that air density was the issue
then. Eh? Fool...

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <7ddv10pkl7rgv8dsarj0kidbffqdrrpn23@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:25:55 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:


You really are a retarded nutcase. Who the hell is talking about
72F? We're talking about -20F! Batteries have very little
output to crank a glued together engine at -30C. ...what a
maroon.


You couldn't read if it saved your life. The statement clearly
refers to oil pumps having a harder time at the temperatures
mentioned in the thread than they do at 72 degree ambients.

It's a comparison. You do know what a comparison is, right?

Density? What a moron.

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <ajdv1091daercec860ru9u3r3umgildmio@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:25:55 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

You've obviously never lived where it gets cold. Even a little
ol' granny understands these simple facts.

You obviously draw conclusions based on your stupid little brain
fart mind making shit up about people.
You obviously don't know a goddamned thing about me.

I know more than I want. You're an obnoxious idiot. You're so
full of yourself that you're willing to constantly make a damned
fool of your yourself. You have zero knowledge of engineering,
and brag about it incessantly. When caught in your errors you
shift blame to others and change the numbers or subject (or
both).

You are obviously a fucking troll.

I can understand why you're pissed at what McD's burger flippers
make. They *earn* a living that you can only dream of.

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <s1m0205iu0tihti51b81usvpq4iijcb7rf@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:04:10 -0700, "Bob Myers"
nospamplease@addressinvalid.com> Gave us:

In DarkSpeak, "build racing engines"
rather clearly translates to "changed the oil filer on Mom's
Gremlin"...

DimBulb, have you ever considered the fact that there is
something wrong with *you*. You seem to attract the ire of
everyone you meet. Get a clue and ask your mommy for an
abortion.

--
Keith

 

[Bob Myers]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:s1m0205iu0tihti51b81usvpq4iijcb7rf@4ax.com...

I built engines with my older brother all through school. I THEN
built engines in a machine shop after high school as one of my first
jobs. I started in '68 at 8 years old. My dad worked at the Cinti.
Milacron, and I had quite a garage full of gear. I learned more about
things mechanical than any 8 year old before or since. I spent years
doing it before ever taking a course as well.

Yes, you've given us little reason to doubt that
you're a legend in your own mind.

Bob M.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:43:34 -0700, "Bob Myers"
<nospamplease@address.invalid> Gave us:

Yes, you've given us little reason to doubt that
you're a legend in your own mind.

I don't have to measure up to your unsolicited, unqualified,
unprofessional, E-1 grade bullshit assessments, do I, asswipe?

I was using coordinate measuring machines on turbine blades for GE
Evendale before they were even used in machine shops all over the
world (1971) I knew 100 thousandth inch tolerances on machine tools
before you knew what a hundred thousandth inch was.

I've seen "One thousandth inch diameter" drills claimed to be "the
world's smallest drill" by Russia get sent back to them with a 3 ten
thousandth inch hole drilled into the shaft.

I have recently made machinery that actuates piezo motors of the
linear variety at kHz rates to the tune of tens of microns...
accurately. To the point of being able to cut optical quality
surfaces on a single pass that do not need further finishing, and can
even cut a square peg on a rotating shaft in a lathe at such
accuracies and rates.

Yes, that's complex part milling and cutting on a rotating lathe
spindle where the cutting head has nanometer-precision accuracy, and
kHz translation rates and speeds. The piezo stack has to be excited
by several hundred volts at a couple kW, so that has to be one clean
high power "audio" amp, eh? The stack generates several hundred
pounds of force in the tightly controlled, nanometer precise linear
translations it performs. The computer adjusts the entire system for
the physical backlash contained in the mechanics of the machinery.

Hell, I even made one for LLNL. Naaaahhh... I don't know what I'm
doin'... at all. Right. We are up to 2.5kW now with a full 2mm
action.

Next quarter, we will make a 2.5 kW RF amplifier for FM band that
will replace a 2kW competitor's model in a smaller space with a much
higher power factor! Naaah... I sit around drinking beer. I didn't
do any of that stuff.... Sure...

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:08:06 -0500, Keith R. Williams
<krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

I can understand why you're pissed at what McD's burger flippers
make. They *earn* a living that you can only dream of.

You're an idiot, little boy.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:04:35 -0500, Keith R. Williams
<krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

Density? What a moron.

Yeah, you know, dipshit... Barometric pressure.

See that derivative word in there? METRIC.

That means that more is more, you moron! Or should that be LessOn!

You are More Off than On! Hahaha..

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:04:05 -0500, Keith R. Williams
<krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

You're a fool. Why did you say that air density was the issue
then. Eh? Fool...

Look retard... where did I ever say that it was the only factor?

Answer, dipshit! Oh... that's right. When you get caught in your
bullshit, you tangent off onto more bullshit.

Answer... I did not. There are several factors involved. One is
simply tighter tolerances between the dissimilar metal parts of the
engine, namely the pistons and the cylinder walls.

This is the reason that ALL motor operators, even in warmer climes,
should ALWAYS start the engine, and let it run without any loading for
a good minute or two, and longer in the severe cold regions.

The piston slugs are sized for the final hot engine tolerances, and
when cold, they are a lot closer to the more slowly moving engine
block and cylinder walls. Loading up your freshly started, cold as
ice motor by driving it out onto the road, and barreling down the
street is a sure way to a reduced engine life.

So THAT is a fourth reason why the engine is tighter when it is
cold.

You should read up in the bible where Jesus talks about calling
people a fool. You fit the story.


So, thick oil, tight slugs, heavier compression are the reasons it
takes more juice, and COLD is the reason the battery has less to give.

I knew this before you ever did. I understood it more thoroughly
than you ever have or ever will.

Goodbye once again, oh Tard of great Keithness.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:03:14 -0500, Keith R. Williams
<krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

In article <57dv105hhhjel937dicceqtjcq7h6v8dsk@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:25:55 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

You're a fool, as you constantly demonstrate. Note that you
didn't mention oil viscosity until *I* brought it up.

] Leave it to some usenet twit to think that he is the sole initiator
in someone else's thought processes.

You *fool*.

You should really see someone about this problem you have. Or at
least pray or something.

Your first, and simple, thought was air density.

No. My first addition to those posts which were being made on the
thread mentioned air density as one factor. The actual post where I
only wrote one word... "density" was actually a reference to the
electrolyte.

That has little or nothing to do with starting a car at -30C.
The battery and oil temperature have *everything* to do with it.

This is where YOU have it wrong. It DOES have something to do with.
Quite a lot, in fact. Do some math, dipshit.

You couldn't be more retarded, boy.

When corrected you yell obscenities, then move the goal posts.

You corrected nothing as you have yet to be correct since you fail
to admit that the air density IS a factor.

Everyone knows your style by no DimBUlb.

When confronted by convoluted fucks like you and the RossTard, where
you retarded bastards make shit up based on your bullshit
interpretations of reality... sure. I call you on it, and you ignore
it.

It's time to dump that
dumb moniker you use and get a new one. ...perhaps
"KickMeIcantHelpItButImStupid" would suit you better.

More RossTard/KeithTard baby bullshit. Par for your courses.

What a maroon.

You even insult bugs you are so bad at life.

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <db6620l3jg1o48l5u6jaiakinll79tri5q@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:43:34 -0700, "Bob Myers"
nospamplease@address.invalid> Gave us:

Yes, you've given us little reason to doubt that
you're a legend in your own mind.

I don't have to measure up to your unsolicited, unqualified,
unprofessional, E-1 grade bullshit assessments, do I, asswipe?

I was using coordinate measuring machines on turbine blades for GE
Evendale before they were even used in machine shops all over the
world (1971) I knew 100 thousandth inch tolerances on machine tools
before you knew what a hundred thousandth inch was.

Yeah, yeah, we've heard all about your legend status. You helped
AlGore invent the Internet too.

<snipped the rest of RetardMatter's self aggrandizement>

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <h18620hddcah60usvjdmjb4vjqvrmak3ep@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:03:14 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

In article <57dv105hhhjel937dicceqtjcq7h6v8dsk@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:25:55 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

You're a fool, as you constantly demonstrate. Note that you
didn't mention oil viscosity until *I* brought it up.

] Leave it to some usenet twit to think that he is the sole initiator
in someone else's thought processes.

You *fool*.

You should really see someone about this problem you have. Or at
least pray or something.

I'm not the one who should see someone about a problem.

Your first, and simple, thought was air density.

No. My first addition to those posts which were being made on the
thread mentioned air density as one factor. The actual post where I
only wrote one word... "density" was actually a reference to the
electrolyte.

Nonsense. Electrolyte's density doesn't significantly change
with temperature. The chemical reactions certainly do.

That has little or nothing to do with starting a car at -30C.
The battery and oil temperature have *everything* to do with it.

This is where YOU have it wrong. It DOES have something to do with.
Quite a lot, in fact. Do some math, dipshit.

Do some math? You're one to talk. You answere "density" before
any other alternatives were thrown out, as if it were a primary
consideration. It's *not*. Amps available from the battery
(rate of chemical reaction) and amps needed to spin the crank are
by *far* the largest issues in starting a cold car. Density of
anything (other than perhaps your head) has little to do with the
problem, in comparison.

You couldn't be more retarded, boy.

When corrected you yell obscenities, then move the goal posts.

You corrected nothing as you have yet to be correct since you fail
to admit that the air density IS a factor.

Density has nothing to do with the issue, in comparison with the
other issues. Once again you attempt to wiggle. ...just like
the worm you are.

Everyone knows your style by no DimBUlb.

When confronted by convoluted fucks like you and the RossTard, where
you retarded bastards make shit up based on your bullshit
interpretations of reality... sure. I call you on it, and you ignore
it.

We're not making up anything. We're simply rubbing your nose in
your own verbal feces.

It's time to dump that
dumb moniker you use and get a new one. ...perhaps
"KickMeIcantHelpItButImStupid" would suit you better.

More RossTard/KeithTard baby bullshit. Par for your courses.

We're only trying to be helpful. ...by pointing out you
incredible ignorance to others.

What a maroon.

You even insult bugs you are so bad at life.

That would be "Bugs", not those little crawlies or errors,
"bugs", like you. Yes, perhaps equating you and Daffy is an
insult to Daffy. Though daffy rather describes you well too.

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <cg76205l99u1t61rjoe62dvvc7q34q5bmq@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:04:05 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

You're a fool. Why did you say that air density was the issue
then. Eh? Fool...

Look retard... where did I ever say that it was the only factor?

It was your first answer, thus you must have thought it to be the
most important factor. No one else had brought up the major
factors by:

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:51:44 -0800

Answer, dipshit! Oh... that's right. When you get caught in your
bullshit, you tangent off onto more bullshit.

Nope I've pointed out your lies, goal-post shifting, and attempts
to wiggle out of *your* statements.

Answer... I did not. There are several factors involved. One is
simply tighter tolerances between the dissimilar metal parts of the
engine, namely the pistons and the cylinder walls.

Nonsense. Oil viscosity and available current trump all other
issues.

This is the reason that ALL motor operators, even in warmer climes,
should ALWAYS start the engine, and let it run without any loading for
a good minute or two, and longer in the severe cold regions.

Another tanged to attempt to show how dumb you are?

The piston slugs are sized for the final hot engine tolerances, and
when cold, they are a lot closer to the more slowly moving engine
block and cylinder walls. Loading up your freshly started, cold as
ice motor by driving it out onto the road, and barreling down the
street is a sure way to a reduced engine life.

That's not the issue at -30F.

So THAT is a fourth reason why the engine is tighter when it is
cold.

Rou're being redundant (or is that redumbdant). Your third and
fourth "reasons" are the same.

You should read up in the bible where Jesus talks about calling
people a fool. You fit the story.

You're a fool. Happy?

So, thick oil, tight slugs, heavier compression are the reasons it
takes more juice, and COLD is the reason the battery has less to give.

Why didn't you give the main reason. ...and I thought you just
said you weren't talking about air density, rather electrolyte
density. More lies from DimBulb.

I knew this before you ever did. I understood it more thoroughly
than you ever have or ever will.

You're a fool.

Goodbye once again, oh Tard of great Keithness.

I guess that's the limit of you argument. What a dim bulb!

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <fa7620536q1po3lic0jt3vb26o442fgdol@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:08:06 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> Gave us:

I can understand why you're pissed at what McD's burger flippers
make. They *earn* a living that you can only dream of.

You're an idiot, little boy.

I know more than I want. You're an obnoxious idiot. You're so
full of yourself that you're willing to constantly make a damned
fool of your yourself. You have zero knowledge of engineering,
and brag about it incessantly. When caught in your errors you
shift blame to others and change the numbers or subject (or
both).

--
Keith

 

[Rich Grise]

I've just blocked sender on what's his face, and lo and behold,
your name is the only other one in the whole remainder of the
thread.

Please stop feeding him, lest you be considered a bird of a
feather, if you know what I mean.

Thanks,
Rich

"Keith R. Williams" <krw@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a8e28506871a3ad98abbd@enews.newsguy.com...

In article <db6620l3jg1o48l5u6jaiakinll79tri5q@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:43:34 -0700, "Bob Myers"
nospamplease@address.invalid> Gave us:

Yes, you've given us little reason to doubt that
you're a legend in your own mind.

I don't have to measure up to your unsolicited, unqualified,
unprofessional, E-1 grade bullshit assessments, do I, asswipe?

I was using coordinate measuring machines on turbine blades for GE
Evendale before they were even used in machine shops all over the
world (1971) I knew 100 thousandth inch tolerances on machine tools
before you knew what a hundred thousandth inch was.

Yeah, yeah, we've heard all about your legend status. You helped
AlGore invent the Internet too.

snipped the rest of RetardMatter's self aggrandizement

--
Keith

 

[Bill Vajk]

Good Grief. Learn some self control.



Rich Grise wrote:

I've just blocked sender on what's his face, and lo and behold,
your name is the only other one in the whole remainder of the
thread.

Please stop feeding him, lest you be considered a bird of a
feather, if you know what I mean.

Thanks,
Rich

"Keith R. Williams" <krw@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a8e28506871a3ad98abbd@enews.newsguy.com...

In article <db6620l3jg1o48l5u6jaiakinll79tri5q@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org says...

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:43:34 -0700, "Bob Myers"
nospamplease@address.invalid> Gave us:


Yes, you've given us little reason to doubt that
you're a legend in your own mind.

I don't have to measure up to your unsolicited, unqualified,
unprofessional, E-1 grade bullshit assessments, do I, asswipe?

I was using coordinate measuring machines on turbine blades for GE
Evendale before they were even used in machine shops all over the
world (1971) I knew 100 thousandth inch tolerances on machine tools
before you knew what a hundred thousandth inch was.

Yeah, yeah, we've heard all about your legend status. You helped
AlGore invent the Internet too.

snipped the rest of RetardMatter's self aggrandizement

--
Keith