Guest
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 06:14:55 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:
But would NOT be acceptable for an engins still under warranty. Here
we go from -25 to +95 F on any average given year
The bottoms of most chevys (and some ford taurus sunframes) Taurus
doglegs, Mazda (any model) rear wheelwells and doglegs and hatch/trunk
lids, and the box sides of Dodge (and some GM) trucks are aften seem
pretty badly rusted up here. - often within 5 or 6 years - sometimes
even less.
Not sure if you call $14.99 each cheap - sometimes available on sale
for just under $10 (Autolite double platinum) or Motorcraft SP515
plugs at $20.75 Canadian (for Ford Triton 5.4)
You think I don't know that???
The cold starts USED to be the big issue with carbureted engines -
due to cyl wash, fuel dilution, and poor barrier lubrication - not so
much today.
Everthing else being the same - which is seldome the case, an engine
run at over 90% output for half it's life will not last as long as an
engine run at less than 30% output for over 75% of it's life.
>
If I have a Ford Ranger with a 2.5 4 cyl and one with a 4.0 V6 - and I
run them both at rated capacity on the highway under the same
conditions, the bigger motor will last longer / wear less than the
smaller engine - whether the gearing is different or not.
Same thing with a Sierra 1500 - 4.3 V6, 4.8 V8 or 5.7 V8. If you work
the truck - towing a trailer or whatever, the 5.7 is going to outlast
the 4.8 or the 4.3 if none of GM's normal gremlins manage to totally
kill the engine before it "wears out" The basic design of those 3
engines is almost identical - just 2 cyls missing on the 4.3 and
smaller displacement on the 4.8 The 6.0 or 6.2, whatever, is a
different kettle of fish, with a hair-spring detonator.
Things like load. Sure - if like MOST pickups on the road today they
are never loaded or worked - no difference.
If a car is just tooled around town with 1 or 2 people in it - no
difference. Neither one is ever being worked hard enough to hurt
itself.
Take that TOTALLY out of the equation - I said "all other things
being equal". 2 trucks. same usage. same loads -(close to limit) same
roads, same drivers, same speeds and traffic. The larger engine (if no
fatal design differences) will generally, in principal and in
practice, outlast the smaller engine. Particularly where two engines
of not TOO big a displacement difference - one being a 4 and another a
6, or an 8 - the lower number of cyls will habe larger displacement
per cyl - usually a longer stroke - and if geared to allow the smaller
engine to putout the same horsepower (needs to run fster) the piston
speed on the lower cyl engine will often be higher than the higher
number of cyl engine due to difference in stroke length - which is a
large determinator of engine life. The v6 or v8 of the same
displacement - or even larger - will also have a shorter crank and a
more rigid crankcase/block (in most cases) affecting bearing and crank
life. I know there is a lot of design variability - but over the years
it has become quite evident that the larger engine GENERALLY outlasts
the smaller engine when the capacity limit of the smaller engine is
approached, and the more cyls, even for the same displacement, the
better the life .
Yes, I'll likely end up owning another 4 cyl vehicle - with today's
trends it's inevitable - and todays 4 cyls are much better than the 4
cyl of 20 years ago - but given the choice of a 2.5 liter V6 and a 2.5
liter 4 cyl, accessibility and serviceability aside, I'll take the 6.
The amount of repairs I've needed to do an ANY of my vehicles in the
last 20 yeats is SO small "getting at" the engine is not much of a
concern to me. I've owned 2 V6 Aerostars (about as miserable as they
come) - a V6 Duratec Mystique (they don't get much uglier to work on)
and now a 3 liter Duratec Taurus - again a WHOLE lot more complex and
harder to "get to" than a vulcan - and it's only been an extra hour?
of frustration over 12 years with the duratecs over what it would
have been with a 4 cyl Mystique or a Vulcan Taurus - assuming the 4
cyl and the Vulcan gave no more trouble than the Duratecs - and other
than taking half an hour longer to change the plugs on the 3.0
Aerostars than on a typical 4 cyl pickup truck, the horrendous
packaging of the aerostar was basically a non-issue for 240,000km on
the 90, and 160000+ on the '89.
And I do virtually ALL of my own service and repairs.
If I ever have to change the catalytic converter on the back bank of
the taurus, that will be a different stoty - but it's 16 years old
now. If and when that happens I'll buy a different car - - -
wrote:
clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
Gotta agree. Mine leaks not a drop.
Doesn't burn any either - and it's 0w20, not 20w50.
The whole viscosity thing is a red herring where I live.
You probably live in really cold areas, where it matters.
Where I live, a straight 30 or 40 would work just fine.
But would NOT be acceptable for an engins still under warranty. Here
we go from -25 to +95 F on any average given year
The whole "W" thing only lasts for a minute or two so it's gotta be cold to
matter even the slightest bit.
Gotta be true because rust buckets don't seem to exist anymore.
Except Mazdas, Chevys, and Dodge trucks - - -
Funny, but I never had any of them.
I never had a truck though.
Just cars and vans and SUVs, and, oh, yeah, station wagons in the days of
yore.
The bottoms of most chevys (and some ford taurus sunframes) Taurus
doglegs, Mazda (any model) rear wheelwells and doglegs and hatch/trunk
lids, and the box sides of Dodge (and some GM) trucks are aften seem
pretty badly rusted up here. - often within 5 or 6 years - sometimes
even less.
They now come pre-gapped - and the gap is HUGE - .060 to .085"
instead of .028 to .035 - so accuracy is relative.
Yeah. Plugs got easier.
a. They last forever
b. You don't gap them anymore (except in home tools)
They don't wear/erode any more, so you don't "re-gap" them any more,
By the time the gap has changed the combustion seals are getting iffy
too, so younjust replace them.
And they're still cheap as they always were.
Not sure if you call $14.99 each cheap - sometimes available on sale
for just under $10 (Autolite double platinum) or Motorcraft SP515
plugs at $20.75 Canadian (for Ford Triton 5.4)
With 20,000 volts, the gap was critical With 60,000 - not so much!!!
Yup.
High voltage is nice.
You'd think it would wear the metal, but with platinum, it doesn't.
Not gonna take you up on this one. There's no such thing as 'working
harder'. Just not gonna fly with me. The torque curve is the torque curve
and the gears do the fixing of that for me.
When I drive a 2.3 liter 4 cyl ranger down the 401 , my foot is
pretty much on the floor, the manifold vacuum is zero, and the engine
is working it's poor tail off. The 4 liter V6, is just loafing,
throttle barely open - manifold pressure about 13-15 inches - barely
working. A LOT easier on the engine. The gearing is such that the 4
cyl is turning 3000 RPM, the 4 liter 2200, and a 5.7 liter iforce
Tundra about 1200 RPM at the same road speed.
The I4 and V6 engines are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engines.
Take Toyota's 3RZFE and the 5RZFE (from memory).
Completely different engines.
Both last forever.
Sure, one makes for more BHP, but in reality the gearing handles all that.
Besides, did I mention they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engines?
You can't say one "lasts longer" than the other when all you're comparing
is the external size of the engine.
All I'm saying is that the I4 leaves more room in the engine bay than does
the V6. You don't argue with that, so we can accept that as a fact.
Now you're saying the I4 works harder and hence won't last as long, but I
just don't take that on face value because I might not have mentioned this
yet, but they're completely different engines.
You think I don't know that???
Whether they last longer or not will depend on those billion completely
different things, and not on whether they're working harder cruising at
60mph on the freeway or pulling into or out of your driveway.
How long an engine lasts has more to do with how many cold starts it has
than what you call "working harder".
The cold starts USED to be the big issue with carbureted engines -
due to cyl wash, fuel dilution, and poor barrier lubrication - not so
much today.
Besides, I might not have mentioned this, but they're completely different
engines, so you can't compare one thing and say that one thing will make
one last longer or shorter. You just can't.
Everthing else being the same - which is seldome the case, an engine
run at over 90% output for half it's life will not last as long as an
engine run at less than 30% output for over 75% of it's life.
>
If I have a Ford Ranger with a 2.5 4 cyl and one with a 4.0 V6 - and I
run them both at rated capacity on the highway under the same
conditions, the bigger motor will last longer / wear less than the
smaller engine - whether the gearing is different or not.
Same thing with a Sierra 1500 - 4.3 V6, 4.8 V8 or 5.7 V8. If you work
the truck - towing a trailer or whatever, the 5.7 is going to outlast
the 4.8 or the 4.3 if none of GM's normal gremlins manage to totally
kill the engine before it "wears out" The basic design of those 3
engines is almost identical - just 2 cyls missing on the 4.3 and
smaller displacement on the 4.8 The 6.0 or 6.2, whatever, is a
different kettle of fish, with a hair-spring detonator.
At least not with a serious look on your face you can't.
Makes a BIG difference on engine wear and life.
Nope. Not gonna buy that elixer today.
Logic prevails.
There are so many OTHER factors that matter far more to engine life than
the size of the engine displacement.
Things like load. Sure - if like MOST pickups on the road today they
are never loaded or worked - no difference.
If a car is just tooled around town with 1 or 2 people in it - no
difference. Neither one is ever being worked hard enough to hurt
itself.
Just too many.
As for "working harder" - specific power output - the amount of
torque and horsepower per cubic inch of displacement -
I'm not gonna argue that the V6 has develops more BHP than the I4 but I am
gonna let you know a little secret.
Two little secrets in fact.
1. They are completely different engines.
2. Even if they were the same engine, there are so many factors that matter
MORE to engine life than displacement that displacement isn't a major
factor in engine life anyway.
Now if you told me one engine had 10K cold starts and 20K short trips,
while the other only had 1K cold starts and had mostly long trips, then
*that* would be a factor in engine life.
Take that TOTALLY out of the equation - I said "all other things
being equal". 2 trucks. same usage. same loads -(close to limit) same
roads, same drivers, same speeds and traffic. The larger engine (if no
fatal design differences) will generally, in principal and in
practice, outlast the smaller engine. Particularly where two engines
of not TOO big a displacement difference - one being a 4 and another a
6, or an 8 - the lower number of cyls will habe larger displacement
per cyl - usually a longer stroke - and if geared to allow the smaller
engine to putout the same horsepower (needs to run fster) the piston
speed on the lower cyl engine will often be higher than the higher
number of cyl engine due to difference in stroke length - which is a
large determinator of engine life. The v6 or v8 of the same
displacement - or even larger - will also have a shorter crank and a
more rigid crankcase/block (in most cases) affecting bearing and crank
life. I know there is a lot of design variability - but over the years
it has become quite evident that the larger engine GENERALLY outlasts
the smaller engine when the capacity limit of the smaller engine is
approached, and the more cyls, even for the same displacement, the
better the life .
Yes, I'll likely end up owning another 4 cyl vehicle - with today's
trends it's inevitable - and todays 4 cyls are much better than the 4
cyl of 20 years ago - but given the choice of a 2.5 liter V6 and a 2.5
liter 4 cyl, accessibility and serviceability aside, I'll take the 6.
The amount of repairs I've needed to do an ANY of my vehicles in the
last 20 yeats is SO small "getting at" the engine is not much of a
concern to me. I've owned 2 V6 Aerostars (about as miserable as they
come) - a V6 Duratec Mystique (they don't get much uglier to work on)
and now a 3 liter Duratec Taurus - again a WHOLE lot more complex and
harder to "get to" than a vulcan - and it's only been an extra hour?
of frustration over 12 years with the duratecs over what it would
have been with a 4 cyl Mystique or a Vulcan Taurus - assuming the 4
cyl and the Vulcan gave no more trouble than the Duratecs - and other
than taking half an hour longer to change the plugs on the 3.0
Aerostars than on a typical 4 cyl pickup truck, the horrendous
packaging of the aerostar was basically a non-issue for 240,000km on
the 90, and 160000+ on the '89.
And I do virtually ALL of my own service and repairs.
If I ever have to change the catalytic converter on the back bank of
the taurus, that will be a different stoty - but it's 16 years old
now. If and when that happens I'll buy a different car - - -
But even then, it would only be one of a zillion factors.
Displacement is just not gonna be a major determinant in engine life.
Call it whatbyou may, but a small engine "works a lot harder" than a
big engine to do the same work. - and generally doesn't last as long.
You can sell that one to other people. Just not to me.
Displacement is just not gonna be a major determinant in engine life.
Not on a lightly loaded vehicle.
But that's another difference in the days of yore!
Yup - no service on planes now unless you pay for it through the nose
And even then, you still get no service.