What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 06:14:55 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Gotta agree. Mine leaks not a drop.

Doesn't burn any either - and it's 0w20, not 20w50.

The whole viscosity thing is a red herring where I live.
You probably live in really cold areas, where it matters.

Where I live, a straight 30 or 40 would work just fine.

But would NOT be acceptable for an engins still under warranty. Here
we go from -25 to +95 F on any average given year
The whole "W" thing only lasts for a minute or two so it's gotta be cold to
matter even the slightest bit.

Gotta be true because rust buckets don't seem to exist anymore.

Except Mazdas, Chevys, and Dodge trucks - - -
Funny, but I never had any of them.
I never had a truck though.
Just cars and vans and SUVs, and, oh, yeah, station wagons in the days of
yore.

The bottoms of most chevys (and some ford taurus sunframes) Taurus
doglegs, Mazda (any model) rear wheelwells and doglegs and hatch/trunk
lids, and the box sides of Dodge (and some GM) trucks are aften seem
pretty badly rusted up here. - often within 5 or 6 years - sometimes
even less.
They now come pre-gapped - and the gap is HUGE - .060 to .085"
instead of .028 to .035 - so accuracy is relative.

Yeah. Plugs got easier.
a. They last forever
b. You don't gap them anymore (except in home tools)

They don't wear/erode any more, so you don't "re-gap" them any more,
By the time the gap has changed the combustion seals are getting iffy
too, so younjust replace them.

And they're still cheap as they always were.

Not sure if you call $14.99 each cheap - sometimes available on sale
for just under $10 (Autolite double platinum) or Motorcraft SP515
plugs at $20.75 Canadian (for Ford Triton 5.4)
With 20,000 volts, the gap was critical With 60,000 - not so much!!!
Yup.
High voltage is nice.
You'd think it would wear the metal, but with platinum, it doesn't.

Not gonna take you up on this one. There's no such thing as 'working
harder'. Just not gonna fly with me. The torque curve is the torque curve
and the gears do the fixing of that for me.

When I drive a 2.3 liter 4 cyl ranger down the 401 , my foot is
pretty much on the floor, the manifold vacuum is zero, and the engine
is working it's poor tail off. The 4 liter V6, is just loafing,
throttle barely open - manifold pressure about 13-15 inches - barely
working. A LOT easier on the engine. The gearing is such that the 4
cyl is turning 3000 RPM, the 4 liter 2200, and a 5.7 liter iforce
Tundra about 1200 RPM at the same road speed.

The I4 and V6 engines are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engines.
Take Toyota's 3RZFE and the 5RZFE (from memory).
Completely different engines.
Both last forever.

Sure, one makes for more BHP, but in reality the gearing handles all that.
Besides, did I mention they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engines?

You can't say one "lasts longer" than the other when all you're comparing
is the external size of the engine.

All I'm saying is that the I4 leaves more room in the engine bay than does
the V6. You don't argue with that, so we can accept that as a fact.

Now you're saying the I4 works harder and hence won't last as long, but I
just don't take that on face value because I might not have mentioned this
yet, but they're completely different engines.

You think I don't know that???
Whether they last longer or not will depend on those billion completely
different things, and not on whether they're working harder cruising at
60mph on the freeway or pulling into or out of your driveway.

How long an engine lasts has more to do with how many cold starts it has
than what you call "working harder".

The cold starts USED to be the big issue with carbureted engines -
due to cyl wash, fuel dilution, and poor barrier lubrication - not so
much today.
Besides, I might not have mentioned this, but they're completely different
engines, so you can't compare one thing and say that one thing will make
one last longer or shorter. You just can't.

Everthing else being the same - which is seldome the case, an engine
run at over 90% output for half it's life will not last as long as an
engine run at less than 30% output for over 75% of it's life.
>
If I have a Ford Ranger with a 2.5 4 cyl and one with a 4.0 V6 - and I
run them both at rated capacity on the highway under the same
conditions, the bigger motor will last longer / wear less than the
smaller engine - whether the gearing is different or not.

Same thing with a Sierra 1500 - 4.3 V6, 4.8 V8 or 5.7 V8. If you work
the truck - towing a trailer or whatever, the 5.7 is going to outlast
the 4.8 or the 4.3 if none of GM's normal gremlins manage to totally
kill the engine before it "wears out" The basic design of those 3
engines is almost identical - just 2 cyls missing on the 4.3 and
smaller displacement on the 4.8 The 6.0 or 6.2, whatever, is a
different kettle of fish, with a hair-spring detonator.
At least not with a serious look on your face you can't.

Makes a BIG difference on engine wear and life.

Nope. Not gonna buy that elixer today.
Logic prevails.

There are so many OTHER factors that matter far more to engine life than
the size of the engine displacement.

Things like load. Sure - if like MOST pickups on the road today they
are never loaded or worked - no difference.

If a car is just tooled around town with 1 or 2 people in it - no
difference. Neither one is ever being worked hard enough to hurt
itself.


Just too many.

As for "working harder" - specific power output - the amount of
torque and horsepower per cubic inch of displacement -

I'm not gonna argue that the V6 has develops more BHP than the I4 but I am
gonna let you know a little secret.

Two little secrets in fact.
1. They are completely different engines.
2. Even if they were the same engine, there are so many factors that matter
MORE to engine life than displacement that displacement isn't a major
factor in engine life anyway.

Now if you told me one engine had 10K cold starts and 20K short trips,
while the other only had 1K cold starts and had mostly long trips, then
*that* would be a factor in engine life.

Take that TOTALLY out of the equation - I said "all other things
being equal". 2 trucks. same usage. same loads -(close to limit) same
roads, same drivers, same speeds and traffic. The larger engine (if no
fatal design differences) will generally, in principal and in
practice, outlast the smaller engine. Particularly where two engines
of not TOO big a displacement difference - one being a 4 and another a
6, or an 8 - the lower number of cyls will habe larger displacement
per cyl - usually a longer stroke - and if geared to allow the smaller
engine to putout the same horsepower (needs to run fster) the piston
speed on the lower cyl engine will often be higher than the higher
number of cyl engine due to difference in stroke length - which is a
large determinator of engine life. The v6 or v8 of the same
displacement - or even larger - will also have a shorter crank and a
more rigid crankcase/block (in most cases) affecting bearing and crank
life. I know there is a lot of design variability - but over the years
it has become quite evident that the larger engine GENERALLY outlasts
the smaller engine when the capacity limit of the smaller engine is
approached, and the more cyls, even for the same displacement, the
better the life .
Yes, I'll likely end up owning another 4 cyl vehicle - with today's
trends it's inevitable - and todays 4 cyls are much better than the 4
cyl of 20 years ago - but given the choice of a 2.5 liter V6 and a 2.5
liter 4 cyl, accessibility and serviceability aside, I'll take the 6.

The amount of repairs I've needed to do an ANY of my vehicles in the
last 20 yeats is SO small "getting at" the engine is not much of a
concern to me. I've owned 2 V6 Aerostars (about as miserable as they
come) - a V6 Duratec Mystique (they don't get much uglier to work on)
and now a 3 liter Duratec Taurus - again a WHOLE lot more complex and
harder to "get to" than a vulcan - and it's only been an extra hour?
of frustration over 12 years with the duratecs over what it would
have been with a 4 cyl Mystique or a Vulcan Taurus - assuming the 4
cyl and the Vulcan gave no more trouble than the Duratecs - and other
than taking half an hour longer to change the plugs on the 3.0
Aerostars than on a typical 4 cyl pickup truck, the horrendous
packaging of the aerostar was basically a non-issue for 240,000km on
the 90, and 160000+ on the '89.

And I do virtually ALL of my own service and repairs.
If I ever have to change the catalytic converter on the back bank of
the taurus, that will be a different stoty - but it's 16 years old
now. If and when that happens I'll buy a different car - - -

But even then, it would only be one of a zillion factors.
Displacement is just not gonna be a major determinant in engine life.

Call it whatbyou may, but a small engine "works a lot harder" than a
big engine to do the same work. - and generally doesn't last as long.

You can sell that one to other people. Just not to me.
Displacement is just not gonna be a major determinant in engine life.
Not on a lightly loaded vehicle.

But that's another difference in the days of yore!
Yup - no service on planes now unless you pay for it through the nose

And even then, you still get no service. :)
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 06:29:47 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I gave up on patching mufflers after the first one.

I agree also.
I used to patch the junction between the pipes with that white stuff.
Yuck.
Never worked for more than a week (to get through inspection).

Wouldn't get through inspection here - Not legitimately anyway.
I did patch a holed gas tank once.
Amazingly, it worked for the remaining life of the car.
I've patched gas tanks by soldering, brazing, and using "liquid
metal"
I've brazed punctured oil pans - both on and off the car (really
extreme measures when on the car - involved use of hot water and a big
CO2 fire extinguisher, but 8-12 hours to pull the engine was NOT in
the cards!!!

And you didn't sat what the "remaining life" of the car was. A cake
of soap has gotten many a car home - or through a cursoty inspectin to
trade it off - - -
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 06:29:52 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Most are made of polypropelene.
Some are made of Polyethelene. The table was likely made of ABS orPVC

If it's that simple, what happened to the "UV coating" someone suggested?

Anyway, if it's that simple, I'm all for it.

Just like getting oil is simple (you aim for the lowest spread in viscosity
and the highest SX rating alphabetically) and just like getting pads is
simple (you aim for the highest cold/hot friction you can get) I'm all for
simplicity in specifications.

So your recommendation is:
a. Polypropylene or Polyethylene
b. but not ABS or Polyvinylchloride

If that works, I'm ok with that.
Simplicity is good. When it exists.

Still ... what about UV coating?

Even wiping down with armor-all will extend the life significantly as
it contains U-V inhibitors and restores the plasticisers somewhat.
For example, eyeglasses get complex when it comes to UV coatings because
some plastics don't need it while others do (although I always argue that
naked eyeballs don't come with UV coatings so why do people with glasses
need them when people without glasses don't need them?).

Bercause EVERONE needs UV protection - one reason people wear
sun-glasses. My Crizal lenses block almost 100% of UV - by the end of
the summer I look like a racoon when I take my glasses off - no tan
behind the glasses. The UV protection is for the eyes - not the
plastic (generally)
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 01:33:03 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

RS Wood wrote on 11/5/2017 12:59 AM:
rickman wrote:

Because they are making the table to sell at the lowest price while the bin
has a specification. Price, stop buying things based on the price! I bet
you didn't even ask about the materials used in the table. I can assure you
the city who bought the bin asked what it was made of. So the fault,
really, is yours.

While I'm sure the fault is always mine for buying *anything* but garbage
bins that is made of plastic, I'm not as confident as you that the material
is so easy to figure out.

For one, we still don't know what material the garbage bins are made out of
(coating or otherwise).

So asking wouldn't work unless we knew what answer we wanted to hear.
What I'm saying is that it's not so simple.

I'm also assuming that NOBODY here knows what the answer should be.
Do you?

What chemical are we looking for?

I'd have to do a little digging, but it's not an impossible question to
answer. Google is your friend, but more importantly, you won't get a useful
answer unless you can find out what plastic the table is made of before you
buy it.

I am currently designing something that will be used outside and needs to be
clear. Initially I was going to use polycarbonate as it is very strong.
But it is not very tolerant of UV light unless coated, so I'm going with
acrylic which withstands UV without coatings.


When you return the table tell them that... and you will be ignored because
they made a lot of money selling the same crap they sold last year in spite
of the few who returned them.

Luckily, Costco takes anything back (except electronics), even years later.

I know, I returned a lawn mower 10 years later. In my defense, it actually
quit after two years and I got ticked off and shoved it in a shed. I
couldn't find anyone I trusted who could work on a Honda mower, so I hired
someone to mow the lawn. Eventually I cleaned out the shed and took the
mower back to Costco. They didn't accept it back without... discussion, but
I repeatedly referred them to their own policy written on the wall I was
facing. So don't think Costco will honor the return policy completely.


I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.

Illegal because the patches are crap and the rest of the muffler won't last
another six months. My mufflers don't get leaks, the flange breaks off on
the pipe. Try fixing that.

I don't disagree. I hated working on mufflers. That was before my gas
welding days.

With a gas welder, removing mufflers would have been a *lot* easier.

A cut-off wheel on a grinder or a "muffler chisel" - preterably on an
air hammer, also makes muffler repair a lot easier - but the "blue tip
wrench" is pretty universal
Because it isn't worth it. When any part of the exhaust system goes bad you
are better off replacing it all.

Not gonna disagree. It's like replacing "just" the water pump. Once you rip
all that stuff off, you may as well do the thermostat, hoses, radiator,
cap, overflow tank, etc.


I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

No, it's not. It's still the same steel that lasts around 4 years.

My bimmer is approaching 20 years on the same exhaust system.

Maybe they used stainless, but you paid for it, no?
My 16 year old taurus has stainless exhaust, as does my 22 year old
Ranger. So did my Mystique, originally - but when a flange broke for
the original owner some bandit sold him a complete walker mild steel
system. After I got it, I replaced it again with stainless. The last
car s I ownwd without factory stainless exhaust were th '90 aerostar
and the '88 New Yorker. My daughres' Honda Civic and Hyundai Elantra
both have stainless systems - the Honda's a 2008.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 01:35:12 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote on 11/5/2017 1:27 AM:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:40:49 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

RS Wood wrote on 11/4/2017 11:55 PM:
rickman wrote:

The only plastic that I know of which lasts forever outside is whatever
plastic the garbage company uses for those blue, green, and gray wheeled
bins!

That's your standard? Things have to last "forever"???

I leave plastic stuff outside and within a year or two, it crumbles in my
hands. So two years is too short.

Meanwhile, the garbage bins last forever outside.

Why can they make a garbage bin last forever but not a Costco picnic table?

Because they are making the table to sell at the lowest price while the bin
has a specification. Price, stop buying things based on the price! I bet
you didn't even ask about the materials used in the table. I can assure you
the city who bought the bin asked what it was made of. So the fault,
really, is yours.


I wish *all* plastic things were made out of *that* plastic, especially
pool tools.

You can ask about the materials when you buy stuff. It's not the plastic,
but whether the plastic has UV resistance additives.

Is that what makes those garbage bins last forever outside?
If so, that's what I want in my picnic table from Costco!
And in all the pool equipment.

When you return the table tell them that... and you will be ignored because
they made a lot of money selling the same crap they sold last year in spite
of the few who returned them.


I still have to replace the exhaust system ever four years. That part
hasn't changed. If you know anything about why they fail, you would
understand the only alternative is stainless steel which is *much* more
expensive.

I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.

Illegal because the patches are crap and the rest of the muffler won't last
another six months. My mufflers don't get leaks, the flange breaks off on
the pipe. Try fixing that.


I do it all the time. Cut off the flanges and fit a pipe over the
joint. Clamp or weld the sleave. Use stainless pipe and stainless
clamps. The flanges rust off because they are welded with mild steel
amd/or are not passivated after welding.

And we all know what a pain it was to get the old ones off.
Forget about those u-bolt nuts ever twisting off.

But I haven't replaced a muffler in decades.
Why?
I'm not sure why.

Because it isn't worth it. When any part of the exhaust system goes bad you
are better off replacing it all.


You could get a stainless steel exhaust system the first time
you replace it, but you would need to keep the vehicle for twenty more years
to make it pay off.

I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

No, it's not. It's still the same steel that lasts around 4 years.

What crap are you driving??? Most have been stainless steel for over
20myears.

A 20 year old Toyota T100 with 240,000 miles. Is that your typical crap?
At 20 years old, possibly the last Toyota made without stainless
exhaust.
 
On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 23:37:11 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 11/04/2017 10:24 PM, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 21:39:37 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com
wrote:

On 11/04/2017 05:49 PM, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:33:57 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com
wrote:

I cut my hands to ribbons on the first water pump -- the fan (which had
to be removed) was attached with at least 4 bolts which could only move
1/4 turn without repositioning the 12-point box wrench, the only thing
that would fit. I swore I'd never do that again no matter how much it
cost -- until I found out how much it DID cost. Some of us are too
cheap for our own good.

KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
suffering, cheap at twice the price

30+ years ago. Ratchet box wrench?
Nope - just a real shallow socket on a steel bar about 1/8 x 1/2 x
16"

I may have seen a tool like that somewhere and wondered what it was for :-(

I could only move the wrench in a <90 degree arc before it bumped into
immovable objects and I think that 16" might have been too long -- I
might have thought of slipping a hunk of pipe over the wrench if that
was possible or helpful. Putting the wrench on the bolt was the hard
part -- my fingers were right down between the fan and the bolts.

Never again!
Find a place to get the wrench through to the bolt and spin the fan -
don't need to move the handle more than a few degrees.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 06:39:45 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>
wrote:

rickman wrote:

I'd have to do a little digging, but it's not an impossible question to
answer. Google is your friend, but more importantly, you won't get a useful
answer unless you can find out what plastic the table is made of before you
buy it.

That's my point. I have bought stuff from TAP Plastics for example, and
that's all they sell, and even THEY often have trouble telling me what the
plastic is that I'm buying.

Not only do you have to know what plastic (and coating) you want, but you
also have to ask someone who knows what they are selling.

It works for eyeglasses, for some reason, but I doubt it's gonna be easy to
figure out the plastic on anything else that easily (at least not when
you're in the store).

I am currently designing something that will be used outside and needs to be
clear. Initially I was going to use polycarbonate as it is very strong.
But it is not very tolerant of UV light unless coated, so I'm going with
acrylic which withstands UV without coatings.

I get your point, which is that there are plastics which handle the
sunlight (which I agree since my garbage cans handle it better than anythin
else I've ever seen that is stored outside).

You just have to know the answer.
And the people who sell the stuff have to know the answer.
If it has a recylcling logo on it the number tells you what it is - -
- -
 
"John-Del" <ohger1s@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:59fb20df-30f5-4e2d-9199-e8d8d0a0b5a3@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 11:02:05 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 11/03/2017 08:42 PM, RS Wood wrote:
What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have
never
done?

Painting is something I have done and wish I never had... The best
paint guy I ever knew was someone you had to catch in the zone between
sober but shaky and falling down drunk. The runner up was a complete
stoner.

I've done all those jobs OP mentioned, but painting (once mastered) is the
easiest. Anyone can paint. It's the prep work that's daunting. The
metal work, the skim coats of filler, the half dozen or more alternate
coats of red and gray primer all block sanded off and the seal coat. The
color and clear coats are easy. The problem today is the enormous cost of
paints, clears and other coatings.

Everything from 3 onwards on motorcycles - my attempts at painting weren't
pretty, and bodging wheels in a straight line after some twat drove his car
over it was definitely a; "don't try this at home kids".
 
On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 23:46:38 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 11/04/2017 10:27 PM, RS Wood wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:

One more thing, the word "brake warp" or "rotor warp" is banished from your
vocabulary. Anyone who uses those two words, is simply proving they're an
utter fool.

BUT you do need to replace the rotors (wrecking yard is probably OK) if
you kept putting off changing the pads until they stopped squealing and
the backing plates started grinding deep (1/4") grooves into the rotors.
Amazingly enough, braking worked just fine until the hogging-in started.

I'm confused by what you wrote, especially in context with the words "warp"
when rotors never warp (or almost never, and never in terms of mattering).

Just an aside.

So anyone who *thinks* rotors warp, is an idiot.

It might have happened a little on my mom's (end eventually mine) 88
Caddy. Slight vibration when braking, but they felt OK. Until 2 of the
calipers seized 8 years later, of course :-( POS, I'll never own
another GM product.

The replacing of rotors is also determined by idiots most of the time
because people don't have the concept of measuring the thickness because
many people don't have the concept of owning a micrometer.

I can't count the number of times I've heard someone say to replace the
rotors on the second pad change, where the real answer is to replace the
rotors when they are worn down to the minimum thickness (everything else
being ok).

In general, the rotors are ok except for pad deposition which is solely a
driver-caused problem (long story later if people ask).

Sure, grooves can be there but gouges have to be the size of the Grand
Canyon to matter (just look up the specs, you'll see) so grooves are, in
reality, not what makes rotors into paperweights.

These looked like a high-school first-time lathe project. Each of the
steel projections on the backing plate had dug out its own trench.
Godawful noise, but the brakes still worked fine so I figured I could
wait another month :-( (Not the Caddy, this was a 68/9 LTD.)
as a retired auto tech, I have to dissagree. A "plowed" rotor can NOT
bed properly to the rotor, it cannot "bed" proerly and it WILL
overheat parts of the pad before the rest even contacts the rotor. A
"scored" rotor does NOT pas an Ontario DOT test - nor should it. If a
new pad and rotor wear together and smoothe "ridges" develop, thats a
slightly different situation - but you should NEVER put new pads on a
grooved rotor -
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 02:04:17 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

RS Wood wrote on 11/5/2017 1:29 AM:
clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Most are made of polypropelene.
Some are made of Polyethelene. The table was likely made of ABS orPVC

If it's that simple, what happened to the "UV coating" someone suggested?

Anyway, if it's that simple, I'm all for it.

Just like getting oil is simple (you aim for the lowest spread in viscosity
and the highest SX rating alphabetically) and just like getting pads is
simple (you aim for the highest cold/hot friction you can get) I'm all for
simplicity in specifications.

So your recommendation is:
a. Polypropylene or Polyethylene
b. but not ABS or Polyvinylchloride

If that works, I'm ok with that.
Simplicity is good. When it exists.

Still ... what about UV coating?

For example, eyeglasses get complex when it comes to UV coatings because
some plastics don't need it while others do (although I always argue that
naked eyeballs don't come with UV coatings so why do people with glasses
need them when people without glasses don't need them?).

Do some research. Polyethylene is an incomplete description. It can be
high density (milk cartons and canoes/kayaks and some lawn furniture) or low
density (and a few other newer, specialty forms). Both types are
susceptible to UV damage unless stabilizers are added.

I'm not so familiar with polypropylene and UV. I know most plastics are
susceptible unless additives are used. There are lots of references
available... read!
For PE see
https://rotoworldmag.com/polyethylene-long-term-uv-performance/
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 19:48:11 +1100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 2:47 PM, RS Wood wrote:
gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

I still don't see how the *gas* has anything to do with engines lasting
longer. Maybe it does, but I don't see the connection.

Lead free along with EFI is why plugs last forever.

That's an enigma to me, but if I think it through, EFI allowed for higher
voltages which I'd think would melt a spark plug even more than the lower
voltages, but maybe what happened is a higher voltage zap keeps the plugs
from fouling. The zap may even be shorter for all I know.

In the emissions world, a longer zap is what you need. A short zap can
lead to a misfire so that's a no no. In order to get a longer term
spark, there arose a need to go to high energy ignition systems.

The lack of tetraethyl lead, I guess, besides meaning harder valve seats,
means fewer deposits on the plugs I guess, where deposits that conduct
electricity cause the voltage to bleed off down the center electrode to the
threads.

Is that how the lead and efi helped plugs last forever?

The enigma is that the higher voltage "should" eat the metal faster.
MSD - mult-spark-Discharge ignition was a performance add-on in the
late seventies - before computer controlled ignition.
 
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 19:56:38 +1100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

On 5/11/2017 3:15 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 11/4/2017 9:32 PM, RS Wood wrote:
We were talking about timing belts inside car engines.

The problem with timing belts on some engines is when they break, the
pistons can contact the valves, which is the dumbest bit of engineering I
have ever seen in my life.

A belt is a belt. The point I was trying to make, albeit awkwardly, was
visual inspection of the belt tells you nothing in most cases. You
replace the thing after N miles based on the mean time to failure. If
you have a timing belt that fails before that and an interference engine
you can plan on replacing valves too. There are many things on an
automobile that give you hints they should be replaced; timing belts
just break.

Timing chains used to be less dependable but the newer ones are greatly
improved. I'm happy my Toyota has a chain. I haven't researched it but I
do believe some manufacturers are going back to chains. Belts are
cheaper but pissed off customers aren't.

I have Toyotas precisely because they have a chain.
Some do, some don't. (perhaps today they all do - not sure)
 
<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 01:35:12 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

What crap are you driving??? Most have been stainless steel for over
20myears.

A 20 year old Toyota T100 with 240,000 miles. Is that your typical crap?
At 20 years old, possibly the last Toyota made without stainless
exhaust.

If it's a 20-year-old Toyota the original exhaust was stainless, but it was
a ferritic stainless that will eventually corrode with enough heating cycles.

"Stainless Steel" is actually a whole lot of totally different things in
three different and hardly-even-related families.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
 
<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:5v1vvc910pue1sjvbmdc4dt9lga0bi32jb@4ax.com...
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 01:33:03 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

RS Wood wrote on 11/5/2017 12:59 AM:
rickman wrote:

Because they are making the table to sell at the lowest price while the
bin
has a specification. Price, stop buying things based on the price! I
bet
you didn't even ask about the materials used in the table. I can
assure you
the city who bought the bin asked what it was made of. So the fault,
really, is yours.

While I'm sure the fault is always mine for buying *anything* but
garbage
bins that is made of plastic, I'm not as confident as you that the
material
is so easy to figure out.

For one, we still don't know what material the garbage bins are made out
of
(coating or otherwise).

So asking wouldn't work unless we knew what answer we wanted to hear.
What I'm saying is that it's not so simple.

I'm also assuming that NOBODY here knows what the answer should be.
Do you?

What chemical are we looking for?

I'd have to do a little digging, but it's not an impossible question to
answer. Google is your friend, but more importantly, you won't get a
useful
answer unless you can find out what plastic the table is made of before
you
buy it.

I am currently designing something that will be used outside and needs to
be
clear. Initially I was going to use polycarbonate as it is very strong.
But it is not very tolerant of UV light unless coated, so I'm going with
acrylic which withstands UV without coatings.


When you return the table tell them that... and you will be ignored
because
they made a lot of money selling the same crap they sold last year in
spite
of the few who returned them.

Luckily, Costco takes anything back (except electronics), even years
later.

I know, I returned a lawn mower 10 years later. In my defense, it
actually
quit after two years and I got ticked off and shoved it in a shed. I
couldn't find anyone I trusted who could work on a Honda mower, so I hired
someone to mow the lawn. Eventually I cleaned out the shed and took the
mower back to Costco. They didn't accept it back without... discussion,
but
I repeatedly referred them to their own policy written on the wall I was
facing. So don't think Costco will honor the return policy completely.


I used to patch mufflers, like we all did.

Illegal because the patches are crap and the rest of the muffler won't
last
another six months. My mufflers don't get leaks, the flange breaks off
on
the pipe. Try fixing that.

I don't disagree. I hated working on mufflers. That was before my gas
welding days.

With a gas welder, removing mufflers would have been a *lot* easier.

A cut-off wheel on a grinder or a "muffler chisel" - preterably on an
air hammer, also makes muffler repair a lot easier - but the "blue tip
wrench" is pretty universal

Because it isn't worth it. When any part of the exhaust system goes
bad you
are better off replacing it all.

Not gonna disagree. It's like replacing "just" the water pump. Once you
rip
all that stuff off, you may as well do the thermostat, hoses, radiator,
cap, overflow tank, etc.


I don't even look at the exhaust anymore, it's that reliable.
I thought the whole thing from the cat back was stainless steel.
Is it not?

No, it's not. It's still the same steel that lasts around 4 years.

My bimmer is approaching 20 years on the same exhaust system.

Maybe they used stainless, but you paid for it, no?
My 16 year old taurus has stainless exhaust, as does my 22 year old
Ranger. So did my Mystique, originally - but when a flange broke for
the original owner some bandit sold him a complete walker mild steel
system. After I got it, I replaced it again with stainless. The last
car s I ownwd without factory stainless exhaust were th '90 aerostar
and the '88 New Yorker. My daughres' Honda Civic and Hyundai Elantra
both have stainless systems - the Honda's a 2008.

My 2000 Acura TL has an all stainless exhaust system. I'll never buy another
car or truck without a stainless exhaust system. That is one headache no one
needs.
 
On 6/11/2017 1:27 AM, RS Wood wrote:
Xeno wrote:

In the emissions world, a longer zap is what you need. A short zap can
lead to a misfire so that's a no no. In order to get a longer term
spark, there arose a need to go to high energy ignition systems.

Thank you for correcting my assumption.

So it's a higher voltage zap for a longer period of time.

It's higher voltage to get a spark happening more easily in lean mixture
land but it's the *high energy* that allows the longer duration spark.
It's one of the reasons manufacturers went to individual coils - only
need to supply spark to one cylinder so gets a very long dwell time with
plenty of coil saturation.
What's the old voltage? Something like 10K to 15K volts, right?

Up to 20k. All the old oscilloscopes had a range, from memory, up to 25-30k.

What is the new voltage zap?

60k or better.

--

Xeno
 
On 6/11/2017 1:25 AM, RS Wood wrote:
Xeno wrote:

They control the spark timing to prevent detonation and pre-ignition.
The small amount of combustion detonation sufficient to trigger the
knock sensor serves to remove potentially harmful combustion chamber
deposits.

Now that's an interesting concept!

If my bimmer requires higher-octane fuel, and if I add lower-octane fuel
instead, and if I can induce pinging, then the moment that the engine
pings, it vibrates "just enough" to shake loose carbon deposits (until the
engine timing is retarded to eliminate the pinging).

A lot of cars these day have EMS that learn and that means they can
compensate for poor quality fuel and take advantage of better quality
fuel by modifying the ignition map to suit.
I have never heard of that, but, it kind of sort of makes sense.
Is that what you're implying can happen?
Not can, does happen. For the knock sensor to operate, there needs to be
a knock first. FWIW, you don't generally get a really big knock first
off. It's progressive and starts with a small knock which generates more
heat which generates a bigger knock and so on.

--

Xeno
 
On 6/11/2017 1:29 AM, RS Wood wrote:
Xeno wrote:

Positive crankcase ventilation systems were the start of the
improvements that led to long oil life, hence longer engine life. Add to
that better metals, better combustion processes, fuel injection,
computer control, electronic ignition systems.

I see what you mean now.

Keeping the gas and combustion deposits out of the oil has to work.
Of course, so does changing the oil (and SB->SN oil quality).
And polyetheramine detergent in the gasoline.

Getting rid of the carburetor was a big improvement.

Until this thread, I had not realized that the cylinder wall was being
washed with gasoline, but it must have been because that's what a choke
essentially does, and certainly what the accelerator pump did.

The carburetor sprays atomized fuel into the cylinders but when the
intake manifold, cylinder head, cylinders and pistons are cold, it's
very difficult for vapourisation to take place so liquid fuel enters the
cylinders.


It is difficult to rebuild the oil film above the oil control ring. It
takes a little time. In that time the cylinder walls and rings don't
have the protection of the oil film and most wear will take place. That
is why cylinder bores will always wear tapered with most of the taper
occurring above the oil control ring. A vehicle in continuous use and
always warmed up, such as a taxi or a long haul truck, has much less
cylinder wear.

--

Xeno
 
On 6/11/2017 1:42 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 11/4/2017 10:36 PM, RS Wood wrote:
rbowman wrote:

For a Healey with multiple SUs 'tuneup' was  very apropos. I never had
the fancy gauges so I'd just make sure they were whistling in tune.

All you needed for a tuneup on a motorcycle, at least my Japanese bike of
the time, was a screwin dial gage for the number 1 cylinder and a buzzer
for the points to let you know when they opened.

Nothing fancy needed by way of tools other than that.

Valve adjustment with shims under the bucket can be painful. Fortunately
my Harley has hydraulic lifters and the DR650 has screw adjusters. I
checked the DL650 last year and it was still in spec.

Been there, done that, with E Series Leyland Engines. Have to say though
that if the valves and seats are decent, adjustments are not regular
events. There's a lot of margin built in. If you don't mind regular
clearance checking and adjustments, you can run closer than factory
specs and gain the effect of a hotter cam.

A set of pre-measured, marked and sorted shims is a handy thing to have
around.

--

Xeno
 
On 6/11/2017 1:32 AM, RS Wood wrote:
rickman wrote:

Do some research. Polyethylene is an incomplete description. It can be
high density (milk cartons and canoes/kayaks and some lawn furniture) or low
density (and a few other newer, specialty forms). Both types are
susceptible to UV damage unless stabilizers are added.

I'm not so familiar with polypropylene and UV. I know most plastics are
susceptible unless additives are used. There are lots of references
available... read!

Fair enough.
But if someone can't just tell me the answer, then that just means one or
both of two things.

1. Nobody actually knows the answer (because if they can't simplify, they
don't know it).

2. The answer is known but it's so freaking complex that nobody can
summarize it (see #1 above).

If the answer can't be summarized *accurately*, then it's not known.
So if I look it up, I'll just find out the same thing that everyone else
already found out - which is that it's too complex to summarize accurately.

Which was my point.
Look up the process for providing UV protection for tyres. The concept
is essentially the same.

--

Xeno
 
On 6/11/2017 1:46 AM, RS Wood wrote:
Xeno wrote:

You understand the efficacy of slotted and/or drilled rotors the first
time you experience brake fade.

Nope. Not gonna buy it. You'll have to sell that elixer elsewhere.
I have read too much practical stuff to believe in marketing bullshit.

Removing metal is not the best way to dissipate heat in a rotor.
I get the surface area stuff. I do.
I get the water-runoff stuff. I do.
I get the lighter rotor stuff. I do.

Mass is what matters when you want to dissipate heat, all else (e.g.,
airflow over the rotors).

Why do you think the biggest spec for failing rotors is thickness?

Let's not just talk. If you really think that removing mass is the way to
make rotors run cooler, then just show me a valid reference that agrees
with your point of view. (Not marketing bullshit please.)
Pads, under extremes of heat, give off gases. It is the presence of
those gases *between* the pads and the disc that prevents the friction
from happening. The gases make the pads operate more like a hovercraft.
The slots provide a means by which the gases can quickly escape.
In a road going car, slotted rotors are probably overkill. Not so on
high performance vehicles.

--

Xeno
 

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