War on humanity

[John Fields]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 21:32:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 04 May 2004 19:49:07 -0500) it happened John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in
67bg90l9vbnhb1op2qv7csvsraokqfucgs@4ax.com>:

John Fields
You still have no clue.
And no useful input.

---
LOL!

If that's an example of your analytical prowess I suggest that the
endless repetition of "Uhhh... d'ya want fries with that?" might be
more in line with your intellectual capabilities.

--
John Fields

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 21:14:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

As long as one can learn, and all people can, there is little you cannot
do.

---
Crap.

Even assuming that everyone can learn, (which is an unwarranted
assumption) and using you for an example, what you _can_ do would
fill, at most, a page or two while what you _can't_ do would fill
volumes.

--
John Fields

 

[Mark Fergerson]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

<snip>

I've kept out of this thread because you've been doing so
well so far.

But you wrote:

Will Rogers always appealed to the worst and most pessimistic about
government and democracy. Remember, humorists never have anything
true or positive to say ONLY because that just wouldn't be very
funny, not because they're right. Humor is the last refuge of
someone who can't commit to anything important.

It may also be the sole way to express political ideas
that would get you Gulaged if you presented them _as_
political thought. Examples; Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and
Yakov Smirnoff.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Richard Henry]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 00:36:19 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

You will be rewarded the same per hour IF and ONLY IF you perform
labor that is authorized by the Majority to BE paid.

So now you're advocating slavery?
-------------------
You're merely trying to define employment as slavery.

Employment is only slavery if I don't have a choice as to
where I work and what I do.
-----------------------

Just as here and now: You can work how and where you want, but
the rest of us don't have to pay you!! Now: If you want to get
paid, then the rest of us have a big say in how and what you do
if we have to pay you!!

So as I have told you, you are not enslaved, but if you don't
cooperate with the society, you may not eat!!

Now, as in that Future: If you really want to make buggywhips,
you may have to learn to eat bugs!

Not only does the State determine where I live, but the State
determines what labor I do?
---------------------
You mean the People do, you just say "State" in order to try to
enflame knee-jerk rightwing scum.

Nope. "The People" aren't going to vote on every hiring decision, some
organization is going to do that. If that organization is authorized
to use coercion to enforce its decisions, it's a government.
----------------------------------

The People are going to vote on how much of what they all want done,
and so they will authorize those jobs and only those jobs to be paid.

Actually the People doing it is the same as the Market doing it,
since it is also out of your control.

Nope.
-----------------------------

Yup. Saying Nope does nothing contentful.

In a free market, I can seek employment with any of thousands of
employers, or attempt to free-lance.
---------------------------------

You can try, but if you don't do what some of them want you won't
get paid either. Same in My Society. The People will vote for what
they want, but they will want different things, and they will want
everyone to get much of what they want, and they will likely bargain
politically to get what each little interest or affinity group wants.

At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all
spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic
and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats.
- P.J. O'Rourke
---------------------------

Sounds like he's describing free men to the British monarchists.
Everyone who wishes to enslave people calls them brats if they
won't put on their chains like good little serfs.

At the core of P.J. O'Rourke is a whining little rightist piece of
crap who can't argue rationally about anything, which is why he is
a writer instead of a scholar. That way he doesn't have to answer
anyone's questions and can merely blather meaningless verbal insults.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 00:49:43 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:

In spite of your delusions, all people are not endowed with equal
abilities. You can't teach a moron to think like a genius. You
can't teach me to sing like Pavoratti.
-------------------------
Nor do we need to. That doesn't mean some should be slaves to others
by underpaying them. And slavery it is, because when one man pays
another less for his hour than he demands for himself, he is stealing
part of that man's hour of labor without paying for it.

My labor is worth more than yours is.
-------------------------

No it's not. An assertion without reason is meaningless.

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
-------------------------------

And out of these slaves hands.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:02:10 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
If there is too much clamor a place, we will have to remove everyone
from that area and make it a time-shared resource that everyone can
enjoy on scheduled vacations.

So now you're espousing ethnic cleansing?
--------------------------

Hah!! I was thinking more of evacuation on buses and trucks.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:04:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

When National Health came in they said that Canadian doctors would
all take up other fields, or even flee to the US, well, they didn't.

Actually, yes they did, many of them.
------------------------

Many means "some" or "a few". Name names, I dare you.

The best of them.
------------------

Now your opinion, which you are unfit to give, not being medically
trained.

Nope. You made another empty assertion.
Every review of the events of that time reveal that nothing happened
as the Right claimed doctors would respond.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Mark Fergerson wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:

snip

I've kept out of this thread because you've been doing so
well so far.

But you wrote:

Will Rogers always appealed to the worst and most pessimistic about
government and democracy. Remember, humorists never have anything
true or positive to say ONLY because that just wouldn't be very
funny, not because they're right. Humor is the last refuge of
someone who can't commit to anything important.

It may also be the sole way to express political ideas
that would get you Gulaged if you presented them _as_
political thought. Examples; Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and
Yakov Smirnoff.

Mark L. Fergerson
--------------

Agreed.
But they are still not suited to represent absolute truth.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------

You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 06 May 2004 02:13:28 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
<rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <4099A011.1F4@armory.com>:

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...
Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 05 May 2004 06:02:55 GMT) it happened "R. Steve
Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <40988457.186F@armory.com>:

No, I simply turn it to mine own meaning, as I do indeed see it
that way. I know True Human Nature.

Then why carry on about such a weard system?
JP
-----------------------
"Weird"??

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last century or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

-Steve
No, wait a minute, some month ago I did see this fantastic documentary

about some sort of apes (don't remember what sort), and they had a leader.
(Because Darwin, ancestors, apes.. see the link?).
Anyways this leader REALLY had control, his own spies even, and some of his
women cheating on him, and the spies reporting that to him, upon which he went
to beat up the ape who did it with one of his women.
Man that REALLy was so human what happened there. But there also was a
different type of apes that were sharing everything (land) and living in
harmony in groups.
So I think you are both right, both systems existed even when 'we were apes'....
So perhaps it is better to have these systems co-exist, you should be free
to chose what you want and go there, but that system may not allow it.
Again I did read today that China closed 800 internet cafes, because of bad
influence on the youth.
Now I know they read us...
But this looks like surpression.
I used to say: Read the stuff, all stuff, like inocculation, you get stronger.
So this exposes a future weakness in China...
Hi guys, your leader sucks!
JP

 

[Richard Henry]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AAE89.27F5@armory.com...

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last
century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------
You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

Those are assertions, not proof.

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:50:58 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

Employment is only slavery if I don't have a choice as to
where I work and what I do.
-----------------------
Just as here and now: You can work how and where you want, but
the rest of us don't have to pay you!! Now: If you want to get
paid, then the rest of us have a big say in how and what you do
if we have to pay you!!

You don't have _any_ say in how and what I do, because you're not paying
me.

--
It is impossible to address the problem of rampant crime without talking
about the moral responsibility of the intended victim. Crime is rampant
because the law-abiding, each of us, condone it, excuse it, permit it,
submit to it. We permit and encourage it because we do not fight back,
immediately, then and there, where it happens. Crime is not rampant
because we do not have enough prisons, because judges and prosecutors are
too soft, because the police are hamstrung with absurd technicalities. The
defect is there, in our character. We are a nation of coward and shirkers.
- Jeffrey R. Snyder, "A Nation of Cowards"

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:53:51 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:02:10 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
If there is too much clamor a place, we will have to remove everyone
from that area and make it a time-shared resource that everyone can
enjoy on scheduled vacations.

So now you're espousing ethnic cleansing?
--------------------------
Hah!! I was thinking more of evacuation on buses and trucks.

But you'd forcibly evacuate thousands or millions of people, because
their presence is inconvenient to your vision of how society should work.

--
Only justice, and not safety, is consistent with liberty, because safety
can be secured only by prior restraint and punishment of the innocent,
while justice begins with liberty and the concomitant presumption of
innocence and imposes punishment only after the fact.
- Jeffrey Snyder

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:58:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:04:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

When National Health came in they said that Canadian doctors would
all take up other fields, or even flee to the US, well, they didn't.

Actually, yes they did, many of them.
------------------------
Many means "some" or "a few". Name names, I dare you.


The best of them.
------------------
Now your opinion, which you are unfit to give, not being medically
trained.

Nope. You made another empty assertion.
Every review of the events of that time reveal that nothing happened
as the Right claimed doctors would respond.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/102703C.html

Exodus! Movement of the Doctors

But the dissatisfaction in Canada goes beyond venting in surveys. Since
the 1990's, Canada has experienced an exodus of physicians. Their number
one destination? The United States and its much maligned healthcare
system. At last estimate, there were over 8,000 Canadian physicians
practicing in the United States. The vast majority have let their Canadian
licenses lapse, indicating no desire to return.

The plight and flight of Canadian doctors reached its peak in the
mid-1990's when the government tightened its healthcare budget and
physician reimbursement declined dramatically. And yet, although the
Canadian government has tried to reverse the trend by committing more
tax dollars to its healthcare system, physician emigration still jumped
by 68% in 2001. According to Dr. Hugh Scully, co-chair of a Canadian
task force on physician supply, the equivalent of two or three medical
school classes are leaving the country each year. It's a not a situation
that a country with too few medical students can afford to maintain.



http://www.ncpa.org/iss/hea/2003/pd101703b.html

Canadian Doctors Eyeing United States
Daily Policy Digest

Health Issues / Health Care Systems in Other Countries (Canada)

Friday, October 17, 2003

The residents of Windsor, Ontario, might lose two of their four
neurosurgeons if Drs. Siva Sriharan and Srinivas Chakravarthi move their
practices to nearby Detroit, Mich.

The two surgeons are sharply critical of Canada's health care system,
which features government-financed insurance for all, but increasingly
rations service because of shortages of technology and personnel. Both
doctors say they are fed up with a two-tier medical system in which
those with connections go to the head of the line for surgery.

Many other Canadian doctors feel the lure of the United States these days,
particularly if they live close to the border:

* The supply of family doctors has increased at a rate lower than
population growth in recent years, a problem that is complicated by
an aging population and doctors seeking shorter hours.

* There was a net migration of 49 neurosurgeons from Canada from 1996
to 2002, according to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, a
large loss given that there are only 241 neurosurgeons in the country.

* Waiting time for elective surgery is growing across the country, and
becoming a hot political issue.

The brain drain of medical talent, particularly specialists to the United
States and is becoming a serious problem.

"Physicians across Canada are in an advanced stage of burnout due to
work conditions," said Dr. Sunil V. Patel, president of the Canadian
Medical Association, who attributed much of the problem to technological
shortages and the powerlessness doctors feel when patients complain about
long waits for treatment. "That burnout causes them to retire early or
pull away from certain kinds of work or simply leave."


--
Only justice, and not safety, is consistent with liberty, because safety
can be secured only by prior restraint and punishment of the innocent,
while justice begins with liberty and the concomitant presumption of
innocence and imposes punishment only after the fact.
- Jeffrey Snyder

 

[Rich Grise]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:lb4k90lrlh62irrbhdrsr37v1q56n22v6q@4ax.com...

On Wed, 05 May 2004 21:39:11 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

No, I am not sure about that, I would still be interested in electronics,
science, and if I had a choice would do what I liked, EVEN it if was more
complicated to do.

---
Poor baby... Your hands are tied and you're being forced to live a
life you don't like?

Since when _don't_ you have a choice?

Haven't you been paying attention? Ever since God abdicated and
installed Walz in his place.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:765k90to1otru9242nqsi0t1m1bh6npv2b@4ax.com...

On Wed, 05 May 2004 21:14:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:


As long as one can learn, and all people can, there is little you cannot
do.

---
Crap.

Even assuming that everyone can learn, (which is an unwarranted
assumption) and using you for an example, what you _can_ do would
fill, at most, a page or two while what you _can't_ do would fill
volumes.

John, you poor unfortunate limited little man.

I can do absolutely anything anyone else on the planet can do.

I just use the proper tool.

If I need to go a mile in four minutes, I'll use a bicycle. Or a
car. ;-)

If I need to lift a ton, I'll use a crane.

If I need to design a digital signal processing system, I'll hire
somebody.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AAE89.27F5@armory.com...

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last
century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------
You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

If so, let's see citations.

Put your money where your BS is.

feh.

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AA5FC.7D3C@armory.com...

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 00:36:19 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

You will be rewarded the same per hour IF and ONLY IF you perform
labor that is authorized by the Majority to BE paid.

So now you're advocating slavery?
-------------------
You're merely trying to define employment as slavery.

Employment is only slavery if I don't have a choice as to
where I work and what I do.
-----------------------
Just as here and now: You can work how and where you want, but
the rest of us don't have to pay you!! Now: If you want to get
paid, then the rest of us have a big say in how and what you do
if we have to pay you!!

Sorry to bust your bubble, Steve, but I don't recall Joe ever
checking with King Steve to decide how much to pay me.

Idiot.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AAE89.27F5@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last
century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------
You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

Those are assertions, not proof.
--------------------------

They're also the Truth.
Of course, they're not "proof".

I don't publish "proof", as that is altogether impossible on Usenet,
nor should anyone pretend that they publish "proof" here, because
ANY disingenuous liar can make any supposed "proof" you offer look
otherwise here, so no one CAN publish ANY supposed "proof" on Usenet.

But what I DID say is documented elsewhere in countless places,
and ANYONE who has a committment to proof and wishes to know for
themselves can go ascertain it for themselves if they are not
intellectually dishonest.

No pearls before swine. Do your own homework, I did.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public