Waiting, once again.

[Whoey Louie]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 5:56:03 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 8/31/19 2:04 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:

There are too many cars to move them all out of an area on relatively
short notice.

Oh, BS. With most of these storms there are days of warning and
still there are cars flooded all over the place. It's not the notice
it's that people are stupid.


Even if the roads could support the amount of traffic
there are more cars than able-bodied adults available at any given time
to drive them all out.

BS and double BS


I don't think it's a matter of desire nobody wants their car to be
flooded out I don't suppose. but it's a resource/logistical problem that
can't be solved either by government or citizens operating in
coordination, on short notice, effectively.

It's mostly a problem of being really stupid.


275 million registered passenger vehicles in the US and only 225 million
registered drivers. Not all those registered drivers are actually able
or available to drive a vehicle at any given time.

I'd ballpark in a densely-populated storm-threatened coastal area of a
couple hundred miles there are optimistically 2.8 drivers available for
every four registered vehicles sitting in parking lots and driveways.
Optimistcally 20-25% are going to get left behind. 20-25% is plenty of
cars in area that size to make a lot of dramatic pictures of parking
lots filled with flooded-out cars.

And you can't figure out how to have a family member, a neighbor,
a friend, etc help you move a car a mile or in many of the stupid
cases I've seen, just 8 blocks inland, to higher ground etc.
They help you move yours, you help them move theirs. Geez

I suppose next you'll tell us that those dummies that drive their
cars into flood waters, where they see the road is flooded, that
couldn't be helped either. Just have to go, you know. Like that
dopey mother that drowned her kid by driving into flood waters.
They even had the road closed, baracaded and this was right
after the hurricane had passed, there was severe flooding.
I think they charged that dope with manslaughter. But if you kill
you car, I guess everybody else that's responsible just pays for it.

 

[amdx]

On 8/31/2019 5:11 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 5:39:07 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 8/31/2019 1:04 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 1:31:42 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 12:51:28 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

ROFL

Now even a routine hurricane is supposed to be an environmental disaster.
Hurricanes are part of the environment.

Typical ignoramus response...hurricane damage would be less of a disaster if wildlife populations were sustainably large. But many are not. Maybe there's something about endangered you don't understand. The dangerous population declines are almost all due to man made interference, things like habitat destruction, no end of toxins in the environment, massive coastal algae blooms due to agricultural runoff, and introduced species like this thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_pythons_in_Florida
There's much more.
Not to worry, what goes around comes around. Your kind is next.

All I can add is, we lost millions of trees down here in Panama city
Fl. with Michael. The place just looked so different driving to places.
There was a small wooded area maybe 300ft x 60ft stretching to 100ft
in the rear of the woods, that was between my home and a car dealer. The
hurricane destroyed most of it, and the dealer took advantage and
cleared and filled it in making room for more cars.
Still have both movie theaters closed and they don't expect to reopen
the mall. Some of the business's on the outer rim are open, but that's
it. It's not the same place. Still have about 6 homes that are gutted,
two were removed and about 9 still have blue tarps on the roof.
I was surprised how many people didn't carry house insurance.
Glad this one missed us and my kids in Tampa.
Some of the damage at my house,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u5pclrgzvqxsy14/michael%20garage%20db.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c63xmz3yey3ldrr/michael%20inside%20garage%20db.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c63xmz3yey3ldrr/michael%20inside%20garage%20db.jpg?dl=0
We were lucky though, we could stay in our home, many could not!
Mikek

You may be able to go to county and make him plant a tree buffer.

I could probably make a stink about the fact he filled in what might
be considered a wetland, it wasn't huge but it did slow water runoff and
did have standing water at times.
Here's a picture of my back fence, the new ditch and parking lot.
Before Michael, the woods filled out to where the truck is parked and up
to the stump at the front. There was talk about a fence, but I haven't
seen it after 10 months. But the dealership is still missing about 15
12ft by 15 ft bay doors. Neighbors down there keep complaining about the
music from the garage disrupting their pleasure in the backyard.
Oh well, That's minor compared to the two huge trees that were on
their house. >
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4l0p259j1fyg7f/ditch%20in%20back.jpg?dl=0

Mikek

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 12:23:54 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

IDK what projections you're looking at, but the many hurricane forecasts
that I've followed, they get tweaked, but they are definitely not all
new every day. And they always provide plenty of notice to people
that get affected by them. It is the weather, you know.


Not the weather, the simulations of weather.

Tweaked in this case is about 90 degrees.

The path of a hurricane depends on ocean surface temperatures and salinity;
back in 1900, the Galveston storm was known in advance, and preparations made for it
to land... in New Jersey. Texas was surprised, though.

We actually CAN monitor ocean surface broadly nowadays, and path predictions
are quite good. Predictions are always simulations, so simulations
too are quite good nowadays. Bet you a dollar the path of Dorian won't hit Galveston!

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:09:47 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 3:19:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

But no different from what's been going on for thousands of years.

Really? And you can imagine no difference between eastern coastal North America of today and the vast wilderness that existed 1000 years ago?

Of course it's different. It was even more different before the native
Americans moved in. The ice ages were yet more different.

The Garden of Eden was a long time ago.

The bird populations of almost every species in NA are at 50% of 1970s numbers. There are some species, especially in the Everglades, that are down to just a handful of mating pairs. Handful means less than a dozen. Storms like Dorian could be an extinction event for them.

You probably think the alley behind your house overgrown with weedy invasives is a wilderness...

We don't have alleys here.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc trk

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 5:45:10 AM UTC+10, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Whoey Louie wrote...

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 1:51:43 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
Whoey Louie wrote...

On August 31, 2019, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

ROFL

Now even a routine hurricane is supposed to be an environmental
disaster. Hurricanes are part of the environment.

Yes, Mother Nature can beat up on itself, but hey, that's
still an environmental disaster!! Anyway, categories 4
and 5 didn't used to be routine.

That's obvious BS.

The links you put up support my statement.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Perhaps you missed this part:

"It is likely that the increase in Atlantic tropical storm and hurricane frequency is primarily due to improved monitoring."

And you missed this part "There has been a very pronounced increase in the number of tropical storms and hurricanes in the Atlantic since the late-1980s."

Gabriel A. Vecchi and Thomas R. Knutson seem to have missed the point that anthropogenic global warming has been accelerating over the past forty years.

By 1980 had been about half a degree of anthropogenic global warming above the normal interglacial average temperature - comparable with the statistical noise on the signal from the El Nino/La Nina alternation and the slower atlantic Multidecadal oscillation. Since then we've had another half degree of anthropogenic global warming.

https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/historical-atlantic-hurricane-and-tropical-storm-records/

Being obsessed with historical records can blind you to what's actually going on now.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 5:22:04 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On 31 Aug 2019 10:51:35 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Whoey Louie wrote...

On August 31, 2019, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

ROFL

Now even a routine hurricane is supposed to be an environmental
disaster. Hurricanes are part of the environment.

Yes, Mother Nature can beat up on itself, but hey, that's
still an environmental disaster!! Anyway, categories 4
and 5 didn't used to be routine.

Not until humans invented catagories.

And now doppler radar and storm tracker planes can find the absolute
peak wind speed that people used to miss. Category inflation.

Another bit of Anthony Watts' denialist message. The anthropogenic global warming we've already had is delivering extra energy to the hurricane forming mechanism, and hurricanes really are getting more intense.

Very intense hurricanes are still rare, but not as rare as they used to be.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 5:19:33 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

But no different from what's been going on for thousands of years.

John Larkin hasn't got the message that the one degree Celcius of global warming that we've already puts 6% more water vapour into the atmosphere above the oceans, which is the energy store that drives hurricanes and other extreme weather.

That's not been true for the past few thousand years.

Since hurricanes depend on the existence of a large area of ocean that is warmer than 26C down to depth of about 50 metres, global warming opens out the area that can spawn them.

The modelling that has been done suggests that the extra area is going to translate into more intense hurricanes rather than more frequent hurricanes, which is going to make the consequences more severe than they have been for the past few thousand years.

John Larkin gets his information from Anthony Watts' denialist website, which isn't a particularly reliable source, even if it offers enough flattery to it's readers to keep John Larkin happy.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 8/31/19 2:11 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 1:47:53 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 8/31/19 1:40 PM, bitrex wrote:

It's interesting in so many of these hurricanes or other heavy rains
that were correctly forecasted, how afterwards there are endless pictures
of cars that are covered with water.  Obviously they were left in low
lying areas, near the beach, etc.  How hard is it to just move them
to an area that isn't prone to flooding?  Totally stupid.  And then
other people wind up paying for a lot of them through insurance.
IMO, insurance companies should just deny most of those claims.


There are too many cars to move them all out of an area on relatively
short notice. Even if the roads could support the amount of traffic
there are more cars than able-bodied adults available at any given time
to drive them all out.

I don't think it's a matter of desire nobody wants their car to be
flooded out I don't suppose. but it's a resource/logistical problem that
can't be solved either by government or citizens operating in
coordination, on short notice, effectively.


Government emergency services aren't going to help at all with that
process either if even one person dies in a storm and the citizens and
media go to the government and are like "Hey what were you doing?" "Oh
we were also organizing an effort to move all the Toyota Corollas to
safety" it's not going to look good.

Oh please. All you have to do is drive your freaking car to high ground.
How do you get to an organized effort to move Toyotas? Does it take a
village now to move your freaking car?




They're going to say all non-essential vehicles that are not emergency
vehicles or directly engaged in the evacuation of people need to stay
off the road.

Only if you're stupid and wait until the last minute.
Right now the hurricane is forecasted to come ashore in SC on Thurs.
If I had a car in an area where it's known to flood, I'd be planning
right now, ie where can I move it to, when will I move it, etc.
Plenty of videos of the smart, reasonable people preparing as
hurricanes approach, everything from boarding up windows, to taking
in furniture. It's the dopes that wind up with cars under water.
And in many videos of the aftermath, you only had to move cars ten
blocks! Imbeciles left them right at the beach block.

Drive it to the airport, rent a car with the damage waiver, drive home.

My elder daughter's car was parked at La Guardia airport when Hurricane
Sandy hit...it was flooded with sea water up to the
windows...fortunately it was new and she had replacement-value
insurance...the dealer gave her a quantity discount for buying two cars
in two months...so she wound up several hundred dollars ahead.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 9:55:45 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:09:47 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 3:19:33 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

But no different from what's been going on for thousands of years.

Really? And you can imagine no difference between eastern coastal North America of today and the vast wilderness that existed 1000 years ago?

Of course it's different. It was even more different before the native
Americans moved in. The ice ages were yet more different.

The Garden of Eden was a long time ago.

The people who think that there was a Garden of Eden presumably also think that Bishop Ussher's chronology tells them when it was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology

" Ussher deduced that the first day of creation fell upon, October 23, 4004 BC, in the proleptic Julian calendar, near the autumnal equinox."

The native American had moved into north America rather earlier than that. There's strong evidence that they've been there since the end of the last ice age. There are suggestions that there was an earlier migration, but that population - if it existed - got swamped by the people who moved in at the end of the last ice age.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 8/31/19 7:18 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:

275 million registered passenger vehicles in the US and only 225 million
registered drivers. Not all those registered drivers are actually able
or available to drive a vehicle at any given time.

I'd ballpark in a densely-populated storm-threatened coastal area of a
couple hundred miles there are optimistically 2.8 drivers available for
every four registered vehicles sitting in parking lots and driveways.
Optimistcally 20-25% are going to get left behind. 20-25% is plenty of
cars in area that size to make a lot of dramatic pictures of parking
lots filled with flooded-out cars.

And you can't figure out how to have a family member, a neighbor,
a friend, etc help you move a car a mile or in many of the stupid
cases I've seen, just 8 blocks inland, to higher ground etc.
They help you move yours, you help them move theirs. Geez

Neighbors and friends might be pretty busy sorting out their own
evacuation problems and trying to save what they can of their own gear.

I've noticed after being a native-born American and living in America
for the better part of 40 years Americans tend to be fairly protective
and possessive about their gear, automobiles particularly. I think most
Americans would find a way to save all their vehicles if it were really
so simple to move everything out of the area effectively, even with some
warning.

I suppose next you'll tell us that those dummies that drive their
cars into flood waters, where they see the road is flooded, that
couldn't be helped either. Just have to go, you know. Like that
dopey mother that drowned her kid by driving into flood waters.
They even had the road closed, baracaded and this was right
after the hurricane had passed, there was severe flooding.
I think they charged that dope with manslaughter. But if you kill
you car, I guess everybody else that's responsible just pays for it.

Nah there are surely plenty of stupid or ignorant or arrogant or all
three people out there who ignore signs, ignore warnings, ignore advice,
and just do generally dumb things, either occasionally as most everyone
does from time to time, or as a habitual lifestyle choice of living on
ego and feelings of invulnerability.

Fast moving water is deceptive; people maybe got consumer 4x4 SUV or
truck (that was sold to them on the notions of "ruggedness" and that it
is somehow designed for situations like that) it's like 14" of water?
Pfft I'll just power through all that - 14" of fast-running water is
tremendously powerful it'll shove that SUV off its footing and
downstream quickly, not a problem at all.

It's the kind of power that modern suburban 1st world humans who tend to
spend very little of their lives in situations where nature crashes
right into their neighborhood understandably, perhaps don't have a good
intuitive grasp of.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

One problem is that there is no longer a firm definition of "species."
Nowadays, one batch of squirrels with a stripe on their tails is
declared to be a new species. There are many more species than there
were by the classic definition.

(Except humans of course. We can't have species.)

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc trk

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[bitrex]

On 9/1/19 12:14 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

One problem is that there is no longer a firm definition of "species."

There never was...

Nowadays, one batch of squirrels with a stripe on their tails is
declared to be a new species. There are many more species than there
were by the classic definition.

"a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable
of exchanging genes or interbreeding." The word "similar" has always
been open to wide subjective interpretation and what species some
current or historical organism is or isn't was the kind of things
biologists and anthropologists might try to have a pistol duel about in
the 1800s

(Except humans of course. We can't have species.)

You sound disappointed. What scientific purpose would classifying modern
humans into different species serve? That is the purpose of
classification schemes it isn't to make non-biologists or
non-anthropologists happy.

 

[bitrex]

On 9/1/19 12:47 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 9/1/19 12:14 AM, John Larkin wrote:

(Except humans of course. We can't have species.)


You sound disappointed. What scientific purpose would classifying modern
humans into different species serve? That is the purpose of
classification schemes it isn't to make non-biologists or
non-anthropologists happy.

That is to say they classify so they have a common baseline terminology
so in scientific literature and correspondence there's less ambiguity
about what's being talked about; not even every biologist knows what a
Euphorbia antiquorum vs.Euphorbia milii is off the top of their head but
if they don't they can go look it up in a book or online.

Every modern human knows what a "modern human" is.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 2:14:43 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

One problem is that there is no longer a firm definition of "species."

It's firm enough, but more complicated than it used to be.

As an undergraduate I got taught about "ring species" where a bunch of subspecies were spread around a geological feature. Each sub-species could interbreed with the next, but by the time you got all the way around the feature the adjacent subspecies were different enough that they didn't interbreed..

Essentially a species is a group which doesn't interbreed with adjacent similar species - you need reproductive isolation to get distinct species, and you can't be too prescriptive about how it happens.

Nowadays, one batch of squirrels with a stripe on their tails is
declared to be a new species.

Only if they don't interbreed with similar species.

> There are many more species than there were by the classic definition.

Cite?

> (Except humans of course. We can't have species.)

We don't, now. Neanderthals, Denisovians and the like might have qualified when they were around. There clearly was some interbreeding, but not all that much, and we don't seem to be able to work out enough about the interactions to make a defensible judgement.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 9/1/19 12:14 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

One problem is that there is no longer a firm definition of "species."
Nowadays, one batch of squirrels with a stripe on their tails is
declared to be a new species. There are many more species than there
were by the classic definition.

(Except humans of course. We can't have species.)

From 10th grade biology, the classical definition is that a male and
female are of the same species if they can have fertile offspring. So
dogs and wolves are the same species, but horses and donkeys aren't.

Dunno about lions and tabbys.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 10:44:36 -0700, Michael Terrell wrote:

> My first car was a '63 Pontiac Catalina convertible.

That's a coincidence. I was about to say exactly the same make and model,
having wandered around a massive car museum recently. They had an
electric blue '63 Catalina in there which had been stretched (like it
wasn't long enough before!) by some very well-respected auto body
modifier company in the US whose name I can't recall off hand but they'd
added their little decal to the trunk for promotional reasons,
presumably. It was one of the half dozen or so outrageously large cars
there deemed worthy of taking a snap of. Remember this is Yurp and we
don't see such gloriously anachronistic monstrosities very often!

Sorry to hear about you having to survive another storm.




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in news:6e60b79b-
48eb-4d96-907b-72e4f669d774@googlegroups.com:

> I was hit one day by a large Rainbow Beard delivery truck.

Did you hurry out to get a right earring just after or did you
already have one?

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 5:24:58 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 10:44:36 -0700, Michael Terrell wrote:

My first car was a '63 Pontiac Catalina convertible.

That's a coincidence. I was about to say exactly the same make and model,
having wandered around a massive car museum recently. They had an
electric blue '63 Catalina in there which had been stretched (like it
wasn't long enough before!) by some very well-respected auto body
modifier company in the US whose name I can't recall off hand but they'd
added their little decal to the trunk for promotional reasons,
presumably. It was one of the half dozen or so outrageously large cars
there deemed worthy of taking a snap of. Remember this is Yurp and we
don't see such gloriously anachronistic monstrosities very often!

Pontiac was advertised as 'Wide Track' because they were big. The trunk was so large that I could lay down in it without my head or feet touching either side. It was a family car. Mine was a metallic blue with a white convertible top. It was built like a tank. I was hit one day by a large Rainbow Beard delivery truck. It knocked me one and a half lanes sideways into the curb, and didn't even scratch the paint. I had just had it painted one week before that. It only had an AM radio, so I mounted an FM tuner inside the glove compartment, and used the radio as an amplifier.. It confused the crap out of my neighbor. He was one of those who would change the radio to a crappy rock station without asking, then turn it all the way up. He freaked when the tuner didn't work, and it would only play Country Music. He was ranting, "There's something wrong with the radio!!!"

> Sorry to hear about you having to survive another storm.

It's part of life.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 01 Sep 2019 07:24:27 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

My older daughter, thednageek, is a PhD biologist, and she has
discovered scores of new insect species, but she can't define "species."

Funny I don't remember you ever mentioning you having such a child
prodigy before, John. Unlike dearly-departed Jim, who practically force-
fed us at every opportunity how great his offspring were (God bless him).



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 04:06:10 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 9/1/19 12:14 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting to see what path Dorian will take.

Waiting for the county to decide if we have to evacuate, or if we are to shelter in place.

Waiting for yet another extended Power failure.

It figures that I will have a doctor's appointment during the upcoming mess.


It might not make land in Florida.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTWKADU4AIE38E?format=jpg&name=small


It's fun to watch the computer track projections. They are all new
every day.

(I'll regrain from commenting on computer climate projections.)

When I was a teenager, Betsy was scooting West towards Texas, and a
famous pompous NOLA weatherman assured us it would miss us. Then it
did a 90 degree turn to the north, and the eye passed over us late in
the night.

It's not going to make landfall there. But it is threatening a huge swath of coastline from north Florida all the way to North Carolina. The coastal wetlands there are really low elevation and serve as habitat for millions of birds and other wildlife, with more than a few species already critically endangered. So it's looking like it will be another environmental disaster.

One problem is that there is no longer a firm definition of "species."
Nowadays, one batch of squirrels with a stripe on their tails is
declared to be a new species. There are many more species than there
were by the classic definition.

(Except humans of course. We can't have species.)


From 10th grade biology, the classical definition is that a male and
female are of the same species if they can have fertile offspring. So
dogs and wolves are the same species, but horses and donkeys aren't.

That was the classic definition. No longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

My older daughter, thednageek, is a PhD biologist, and she has
discovered scores of new insect species, but she can't define
"species."


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc trk

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com