Volt Amps = ??

[Phil Allison]

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com>

Phil A wrote:

** Pure inductive loads are just a tad rare - so your example is not
typical.

If you use a 1000 VA load with a reactive PF of 0.7 then add a
resistive
load of 1000 VA the sum is 1800VA.


Still a saving of 10%. Well worthwhile saving.

** Save 10% of what exactly ?

If the sparkie does nothing but add VAs he may slightly under-utilise a
circuit.

If he uses his trusty clamp meter - then guess what ?

If you have electronic loads with whatever PF then the VAs just add.


Only if the the power factors are the same.

** Same current wave shape ???

Transformers supplied loads tend to be lagging, and switch mode supplies
tend to be leading, so
they will cancel to some degree. Properly designed high power factor
electronic loads will have a power factor very close to unity.

** There is no PFC in the vast majority of electronic items - including
some that draw up to 4000 VA from a single phase circuit. Also there is
virtually no phase angle, peak current draw co-insides exactly with peak
voltage. The PF of such loads is about 0.5.




......... Phil

 

[David]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 00:11:07 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com

Phil A wrote:


** Pure inductive loads are just a tad rare - so your example is not
typical.

If you use a 1000 VA load with a reactive PF of 0.7 then add a
resistive
load of 1000 VA the sum is 1800VA.


Still a saving of 10%. Well worthwhile saving.


** Save 10% of what exactly ?

As the current will 10% less, then the conductor size can be smaller.
As coppper cables typically come in standard size, ie 1mm^2,
1.5mm^2, 2.5mm^2 and so on, the savings can be large.

Assuming the above example, 2000VA at 240V is 8.3A, 1800VA is 7.5A.
Depending on the installation method, and voltage drop requirements,
1.5mm^2 cable may only have a rating of say 8 Amps, calculated using
AS3008.1 If you assume 2000VA, you would have to use 2.5mm cable, which
costs more than 1.5mm cable.

Also in larger installations, a distribution transformer or switchboard
may have to be upgraded. If the incorrect calculations are used,
then a larger, and more expensive upgraded may be required. A correct
calculation may indicate existing equipment is adequate.

If the sparkie does nothing but add VAs he may slightly under-utilise a
circuit.

Or cost the customer extra installation costs, or over price a quote and
do himself out of a job. His calculation may indicate that the existing
cable can not cope with the current, and needs replacing. Correct
calculation may indicate that the existing cable is still within its
rating, and does not need replacement.

If he uses his trusty clamp meter - then guess what ?

If it's not a true RMS clamp meter then he is stuffed.

Also, a bit late to use a clamp meter after the installation has been
completed, and he has discovered that he has installed cable heavier than
required, and has cost himself profit by using oversized cables.

If you have electronic loads with whatever PF then the VAs just add.


Only if the the power factors are the same.


** Same current wave shape ???


Transformers supplied loads tend to be lagging, and switch mode supplies
tend to be leading, so
they will cancel to some degree. Properly designed high power factor
electronic loads will have a power factor very close to unity.


** There is no PFC in the vast majority of electronic items - including
some that draw up to 4000 VA from a single phase circuit. Also there is
virtually no phase angle, peak current draw co-insides exactly with peak
voltage. The PF of such loads is about 0.5.

Florescent lamps are common devices which have power factor correction. In
the older types capacitors were fitted. Electronic ballasts can achieve
high power factors, very close to unity. Electrical Authorities do
require minimum power factors for loads.

Computer power supplies are also available which have power factor
correction to comply with harmonic current emission standards (they just
cost more than your el cheapo chinese power supply).


David

 

[Bristan]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ff3c321$0$18690$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

** Who says there is **any phase angle** or the current is a sine wave
?????????????????????????????????????

What are you talking about ???????????????????????
If the PF is less than one then there is a phase angle.
You are on a different planet.....

What you have forgotten from your Uni days is the crucial qualification:
"
.... in an all sine wave system.... "

The OP was talking about an electric globe operating from the 240v mains.
last time I checked it was a sine wave........

In any case I was endeavouring to give a not too technical explanation to
the OP and not get involved in another one of your wanking sessions where
you try to boost your low self esteem by dropping lots of jargon and
revealing your lack of real knowledge.
if you don't know what the phase angle between current and voltage in a
(single)phase reactive load is all about then you should read up on it or
shut up.

to sum and give a simple explanation of volt amperes.

in a dc circuit the VA is identical to the watts and IS the power
in an ac circuit with PF =1 the VA is identical to the watts and IS the
power
in an ac circuit with PF less than 1 the VA is the watts multiplied by the
reciprocal of the power factor and IS the power with an allowance for the
increased current due to the reactive load.
The VA is equal to the max power which the device will use IF the power
factor is one.
So to the layman the VA IS the power.
and the va marking on the OP light globe IS to most people ,the power.

Not of course to pedantic chip on shoulder wankers like you Allison who
immediatley jump on to it and perform another one of you pathetic,chest
beating, moronic ego trip attempts.
To which you will no doubt reply with a childish and illogical denial and
attempt to discredit the above.
If you ever grow up and overcome your inferiority complex you may be able to
make a positive contribution, then would you care to do that anyway?.....I
doubt not.



>

 

[Phil Allison]

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.01.14.44.52.484000@hotmail.com...

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 00:11:07 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:


** Save 10% of what exactly ?

As the current will 10% less, then the conductor size can be smaller.

** That is sheer pedantry.

Assuming the above example, 2000VA at 240V is 8.3A, 1800VA is 7.5A.
Depending on the installation method, and voltage drop requirements,
1.5mm^2 cable may only have a rating of say 8 Amps, calculated using
AS3008.1 If you assume 2000VA, you would have to use 2.5mm cable, which
costs more than 1.5mm cable.

** Yawn. You are inventing fanciful examples again.

If the sparkie does nothing but add VAs he may slightly under-utilise
a
circuit.


Or cost the customer extra installation costs, or over price a quote and
do himself out of a job. His calculation may indicate that the existing
cable can not cope with the current, and needs replacing. Correct
calculation may indicate that the existing cable is still within its
rating, and does not need replacement.

** More fanciful stuff.

If he uses his trusty clamp meter - then guess what ?


If it's not a true RMS clamp meter then he is stuffed.

* Standard rms calibrated meters are fine for any non distorting load.

Also, a bit late to use a clamp meter after the installation has been
completed, and he has discovered that he has installed cable heavier than
required, and has cost himself profit by using oversized cables.

** You seem to be assuming something without ever saying it. Are you
assuming some industrial situation with the permanently wired loads ?? I
was not.

If you have electronic loads with whatever PF then the VAs just add.

Only if the the power factors are the same.

** Same current wave shape ???

** No answer noted.

There was nothing about it on the web site.

Transformers supplied loads tend to be lagging, and switch mode supplies
tend to be leading, so
they will cancel to some degree. Properly designed high power factor
electronic loads will have a power factor very close to unity.


** There is no PFC in the vast majority of electronic items -
including
some that draw up to 4000 VA from a single phase circuit. Also there is
virtually no phase angle, peak current draw co-insides exactly with
peak
voltage. The PF of such loads is about 0.5.

** No answer noted - terrible how web site cannot answer
questions.

Florescent lamps are common devices which have power factor correction. In
the older types capacitors were fitted. Electronic ballasts can achieve
high power factors, very close to unity. Electrical Authorities do
require minimum power factors for loads.

** This David fuckwit is now quoting whole chunks from some web site -
parrot fashion.

Computer power supplies are also available which have power factor
correction to comply with harmonic current emission standards (they just
cost more than your el cheapo chinese power supply).

** Don't ya just hate talking to a parrot.




........... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

Bristan the wanker:

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ff3c321$0$18690$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...


** Who says there is **any phase angle** or the current is a sine wave
?????????????????????????????????????


What are you talking about ???????????????????????
If the PF is less than one then there is a phase angle.

** No fucking way.

There is NO mention of phase angle in the general definition of power
factor.

You are on a different planet.....

What you have forgotten from your Uni days is the crucial
qualification:
"
.... in an all sine wave system.... "



The OP was talking about an electric globe operating from the 240v mains.
last time I checked it was a sine wave........

** Bullshit - the word used by the OP was "device".

BTW I aint seen to many bulbs with VA figures on them !!!!!!!!

In any case I was endeavouring to give a not too technical explanation to
the OP and not get involved in another one of your wanking sessions where
you try to boost your low self esteem by dropping lots of jargon and
revealing your lack of real knowledge.

** Well fuck you Mr Arrogant Prick - the one who lacks basic knowledge is
YOU.

if you don't know what the phase angle between current and voltage in a
(single)phase reactive load is all about then you should read up on it or
shut up.

** You are the one who needs to read up - on the definition of VA for a
start.

See any textbook - look for two formulae.

One which is general - the other for "all sine wave" systems.

in an ac circuit with PF less than 1 the VA is the watts multiplied by
the
reciprocal of the power factor and IS the power with an allowance for the
increased current due to the reactive load.

** The load does NOT have to be reactive in the LEAST.

The VA is equal to the max power which the device will use IF the power
factor is one.

So to the layman the VA IS the power.
and the va marking on the OP light globe IS to most people ,the power.

** VA markings on a light globe ????

Not of course to pedantic chip on shoulder wankers like you Allison who
immediately jump on to it and perform another one of you pathetic,chest
beating, moronic ego trip attempts.

** You are a cretin, Bristan .

To which you will no doubt reply with a childish and illogical denial and
attempt to discredit the above.

** Sorry if basic electrical theory goes over the head of a posturing
software wanker.


( snip rest of Bristan's juvenile gratuitous insults)



........... Phil

 

[Kevin Ettery]

Guys,

I AM an Electrical Engineer and do know a bit about this subject.

Real Power (what provides the apparent power output) in an ac circuit is
given by:
P =VI cos theta
where theta is the angle between the current and the voltage.
and the product VI is called the VOLT-AMPS (written as VA).
cos theta is the power factor.

When the current is in phase with the voltage then theta =0, power factor =1
(sometimes referred to as unity power factor), and P =VI
In this case, a non-reactive load the VA *ARE* equal to the watts.

In most ac circuits there is an inductive or capacitive component to the
load and so watts will not be the same as VA. Thus the VA will be greater
than the watts. Assuming the volts remain the same (usually valid) this
means that there will be larger currents flowing than the watts measured
would indicate, and thus the cables used MUST be rated for this increased
current. Failure to do so can result in the cable being overstressed and
failing - not a pretty sight!

Power factor correction devices are capacitor banks, as it is very very rare
for a ac load to be capacitive (causes a host of other problems when it is
too!!). They work on the fact that, in an ac circuit, capacitance can
cancel out inductance. By switching in enough capacitance (which is what
the power factor correction control circuitry does) it is possible to cancel
out the inductance and return the power factor to unity. The reason it is
done is that the closer to unity you can get the power factor the lower the
VA for the same power output requirements, and so you can reduce the rating
of the power conductors. Also by reducing the current demand you reduce the
voltage drop in the cable - every cable has a certain resistance per metre
and if you can reduce the current you can thus reduce the voltage drop in
the cable.

Harmonics are totally unrelated to power factor, and are in fact a measure
for the distortion of the ac waveform which should be a pure 50 Hz
sinusoid - harmonics are multiples of the fundamental frequency (50 Hz) with
usually only odd harmonics (150, 350, 450, etc) being present (even
harmonics are bad news in a power system). Removing harmonics is done for
many of the same reasons power factor correction in done, and also because
the harmonic frequencies can play merry hell with many instruments and even
power factor correction devices can have trouble handling harmonics (the
apparent capacitance or inductance - called reactive impedance - is a
function of frequency, so at each harmonic these values appear different).


A few minor additions.
There is such a term as Reactive Power, which is given by VI sin theta.
Real Power is measured in Watts, Reactive Power is measured in VARs (Volt
Amps Reactive).
Reactive power is usually written as P with a subscript 'r'.

In vector terms both the current and voltage are vectors rotating in space.
Leading or lagging Power Factor indicates whether the current vector is in
front of (leading) or behind (lagging) the voltage vector. The following is
a good memory aid.

CIVIL

C (Capacitive)
I (Current)
V (Voltage)
I (Current)
L (Inductive)

So if load Capacitive then Current is before (leads) Voltage.
If load Inductive then Current is after (lags) Voltage.


So there ends a potted version of the fundamentals of AC power terminology
and calculations.

Hope it cleared a few things up.

Regards



Kevin



"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ff3c321$0$18690$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Bristan" <daed

To make it clear
I am not a power engineer and don't profess to be an expert however I
am
prompted to recall an explanation from my university days, as you seem
to
have a rather garbled idea of what is going on.


** Sorry - you have the garbled idea, and a very common form of
garble
it is.



The average power in an ac circuit is given by
P =VIcos phi
where phi is the phase angle between the current and the voltage.


** Who says there is **any phase angle** or the current is a sine wave
?????????????????????????????????????

What you have forgotten from your Uni days is the crucial qualification:
"
.... in an all sine wave system.... "



Therefore as I said before, electrical machinery for ac is usually
rated
in
kva to take account of this occurrence.


** So what ?????????

Since when is this NG or was the OP speaking of "electrical machinery "
?????

Cripes - even my floor fan blowing on me as I type has a PF of 0.97.




......... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Kevin Ettery" <kpettery@dcsi.net.au>

Guys,

I AM an Electrical Engineer and do know a bit about this subject.

** Shame you are not an electronics engineer - then you might just get it
right.

Real Power (what provides the apparent power output) in an ac circuit is
given by:
P =VI cos theta
where theta is the angle between the current and the voltage.
and the product VI is called the VOLT-AMPS (written as VA).
cos theta is the power factor.

** Tell me Kevin - in the EE game, is the phrase "ac circuit" code speak
for something ? Is is code speak for those systems where voltages and
current waveforms are all sinusoidal ???????????

If so - get outta here.




.......... Phil

 

[David]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:27:01 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.01.14.44.52.484000@hotmail.com...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 00:11:07 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:


** Save 10% of what exactly ?

As the current will 10% less, then the conductor size can be smaller.


** That is sheer pedantry.



Assuming the above example, 2000VA at 240V is 8.3A, 1800VA is 7.5A.
Depending on the installation method, and voltage drop requirements,
1.5mm^2 cable may only have a rating of say 8 Amps, calculated using
AS3008.1 If you assume 2000VA, you would have to use 2.5mm cable, which
costs more than 1.5mm cable.


** Yawn. You are inventing fanciful examples again.

This is an example from your figures. Real examples from real situations
can have similar outcomes. Some of us do have practical experience.

If the sparkie does nothing but add VAs he may slightly under-utilise
a
circuit.


Or cost the customer extra installation costs, or over price a quote and
do himself out of a job. His calculation may indicate that the existing
cable can not cope with the current, and needs replacing. Correct
calculation may indicate that the existing cable is still within its
rating, and does not need replacement.


** More fanciful stuff.



If he uses his trusty clamp meter - then guess what ?


If it's not a true RMS clamp meter then he is stuffed.


* Standard rms calibrated meters are fine for any non distorting load.

Opps - You slipped up there Phil, assuming a sine wave are we?

Also, a bit late to use a clamp meter after the installation has been
completed, and he has discovered that he has installed cable heavier than
required, and has cost himself profit by using oversized cables.


** You seem to be assuming something without ever saying it. Are you
assuming some industrial situation with the permanently wired loads ?? I
was not.

I have assumed nothing. Domestic installations have permanently wired
loads.

If you have electronic loads with whatever PF then the VAs just add.

Only if the the power factors are the same.

** Same current wave shape ???


** No answer noted.

There was nothing about it on the web site.





Transformers supplied loads tend to be lagging, and switch mode supplies
tend to be leading, so
they will cancel to some degree. Properly designed high power factor
electronic loads will have a power factor very close to unity.


** There is no PFC in the vast majority of electronic items -
including
some that draw up to 4000 VA from a single phase circuit. Also there is
virtually no phase angle, peak current draw co-insides exactly with
peak
voltage. The PF of such loads is about 0.5.



** No answer noted - terrible how web site cannot answer
questions.

You may need a web site to answer your questions. I don't.

Florescent lamps are common devices which have power factor correction. In
the older types capacitors were fitted. Electronic ballasts can achieve
high power factors, very close to unity. Electrical Authorities do
require minimum power factors for loads.


** This David fuckwit is now quoting whole chunks from some web site -
parrot fashion.

I don't need to quote a web site. If I did I would post a URL. If you are
so smart and think it is from a web site then prove it and quote a URL,
instead of using foul language.

Computer power supplies are also available which have power factor
correction to comply with harmonic current emission standards (they just
cost more than your el cheapo chinese power supply).


** Don't ya just hate talking to a parrot.

I certainly do! Do you want a cracker?

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David"

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 00:11:07 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:


** Save 10% of what exactly ?

As the current will 10% less, then the conductor size can be smaller.


** That is sheer pedantry.

Assuming the above example, 2000VA at 240V is 8.3A, 1800VA is 7.5A.
Depending on the installation method, and voltage drop requirements,
1.5mm^2 cable may only have a rating of say 8 Amps, calculated using
AS3008.1 If you assume 2000VA, you would have to use 2.5mm cable,
which
costs more than 1.5mm cable.


** Yawn. You are inventing fanciful examples again.


This is an example from your figures.

** No it dam well is not

Real examples from real situations can have similar outcomes. Some of us do
have practical experience.


** But at what ??

If he uses his trusty clamp meter - then guess what ?


If it's not a true RMS clamp meter then he is stuffed.


* Standard rms calibrated meters are fine for any non distorting load.


Opps - You slipped up there Phil, assuming a sine wave are we?

** The slip was yours arsehole - you assumed non sine wave without any
mention.

Sparkies have been successfully using standard clamp meters for many
decades.

Also, a bit late to use a clamp meter after the installation has been
completed, and he has discovered that he has installed cable heavier
than
required, and has cost himself profit by using oversized cables.


** You seem to be assuming something without ever saying it. Are you
assuming some industrial situation with the permanently wired loads ??
I
was not.

I have assumed nothing.

** You have assumed lots of things - and mentioned none of them.

Domestic installations have permanently wired loads.

** Yes - nice, resistive water heaters and stoves .

No need for fancy phasor maths there.

You just shot both feet off.

You may need a web site to answer your questions. I don't.

** Liar.

Florescent lamps are common devices which have power factor correction.
In
the older types capacitors were fitted. Electronic ballasts can achieve
high power factors, very close to unity. Electrical Authorities do
require minimum power factors for loads.


** This David fuckwit is now quoting whole chunks from some web
site -
parrot fashion.


I don't need to quote a web site.

** No need ? Then why do it ?

Computer power supplies are also available which have power factor
correction to comply with harmonic current emission standards (they
just
cost more than your el cheapo chinese power supply).


** Don't ya just hate talking to a parrot.


I certainly do! Do you want a cracker?

** Piss off polly.




........ Phil

 

[David]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 13:29:49 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

If he uses his trusty clamp meter - then guess what ?


If it's not a true RMS clamp meter then he is stuffed.


* Standard rms calibrated meters are fine for any non distorting load.


Opps - You slipped up there Phil, assuming a sine wave are we?


** The slip was yours arsehole - you assumed non sine wave without any
mention.

Sparkies have been successfully using standard clamp meters for many
decades.

Pity switch mode power supplies havent. Sparkies need to keep up to
date. Be carefull playing with that cotton covered rubber insulated cable
in split conduit stuff you use, you may hurt yourself.

Also, a bit late to use a clamp meter after the installation has been
completed, and he has discovered that he has installed cable heavier
than
required, and has cost himself profit by using oversized cables.


** You seem to be assuming something without ever saying it. Are you
assuming some industrial situation with the permanently wired loads ??
I
was not.

I have assumed nothing.


** You have assumed lots of things - and mentioned none of them.


Domestic installations have permanently wired loads.


** Yes - nice, resistive water heaters and stoves .

No need for fancy phasor maths there.

You just shot both feet off.

Forgotten about airconditioners, swimming pool pumps, fridges, Florescent
lamps etc ?

You may need a web site to answer your questions. I don't.


** Liar.



Florescent lamps are common devices which have power factor correction.
In
the older types capacitors were fitted. Electronic ballasts can achieve
high power factors, very close to unity. Electrical Authorities do
require minimum power factors for loads.


** This David fuckwit is now quoting whole chunks from some web
site -
parrot fashion.


I don't need to quote a web site.


** No need ? Then why do it ?

Please answer the question instead of ignoring it.

I don't need to quote a web site. If I did I would post a URL. If you are
so smart and think it is from a web site then prove it and quote a URL,
instead of using foul language.


David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com

Pity switch mode power supplies havent.

** Pity you are posturing jerk.

Forgotten about airconditioners,

** They plug in.

fridges,

** Plug in.

Florescent lamps etc ?

** Like homes have thousands of VA worth - get real.

Florescent lamps are common devices which have power factor
correction.
In the older types capacitors were fitted. Electronic ballasts can
achieve
high power factors, very close to unity. Electrical Authorities do
require minimum power factors for loads.


** This David fuckwit is now quoting whole chunks from some web
site - parrot fashion.


I don't need to quote a web site.


** No need ? Then why do it ?

Please answer the question instead of ignoring it.

** Not worth answering - the likes of you are not worth feeding.

I don't need to quote a web site.

** What you do need is very painful.



.......... Phil

 

[David]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:04:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

Forgotten about airconditioners,

** They plug in.

Most dont.

** What you do need is very painful.

Speaking from experience Phil ?

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.11.27.625000@hotmail.com...

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:04:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:



Forgotten about airconditioners,

** They plug in.

Most dont.

** At least 90 % do - you really are just another Hotmailer idiot.



.......... Phil

 

[David]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:15:52 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.11.27.625000@hotmail.com...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:04:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:



Forgotten about airconditioners,

** They plug in.

Most dont.


** At least 90 % do - you really are just another Hotmailer idiot.

Please provide a reference to back up this figure. Apart from very small
systems, most draw too much current for a 10A socket outlet.

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.24.32.906000@hotmail.com...

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:15:52 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:


"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.11.27.625000@hotmail.com...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:04:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:



Forgotten about airconditioners,

** They plug in.

Most dont.


** At least 90 % do - you really are just another Hotmailer
idiot.


Please provide a reference to back up this figure.

** Open your eyes wanker - or have you already completed the job.




.......... Phil

 

[David]

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:27:11 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.24.32.906000@hotmail.com...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:15:52 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:


"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.11.27.625000@hotmail.com...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:04:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:



Forgotten about airconditioners,

** They plug in.

Most dont.


** At least 90 % do - you really are just another Hotmailer
idiot.


Please provide a reference to back up this figure.



** Open your eyes wanker - or have you already completed the job.

Can't provide any reference to back up you fiction can you? Caught you out
have I ?

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com>


** Open your eyes wanker - and stop farkking about with your little
sister too.



........ Phil

 

[Tony Pearce]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ff50120$0$18752$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"David" <no_way@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.02.05.24.32.906000@hotmail.com...
Please provide a reference to back up this figure.

** Open your eyes wanker - or have you already completed the job.

This is Phil's way of saying you are right David, but he has never owned an
air conditioner, let alone know anything about them!
Better not discuss the inverter types and reason for soft start circuits
etc.

TonyP.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Tony Pearce"

aka 'Trevor"

aka " roverT"

aka biggest fake and cretin on Australian usenet.

This is Phil's way of saying you are right David,

** Fuck you Pearceoid

You are one stinking turd.



........... Phil

 

[James]

snip snip snip

If so - get outta here.




......... Phil

G'day Mates, Happy new year to everyone first up

Phil - please be nice to people, personal insults are unprofessional
to say the least and you are un doing some of the good advice you
give.

In smaller installations you do just add up all the VA's because you
know it will be a safe assumption. Especially if the installation will
use less than 100 amps per phase because thats the size you would
normally install anyway if the load is 100 amps or less so you are
just checking. With larger installations its different because the
costs are much higher. Also with long cable runs, they can get very
expensive very quickly so its a good idea check properly, the savings
are significant.

Sometimes when adding load to the installation it can be a very fine
line whether to upgrade the power supply or not. This is when careful
calculations are critical as you can save a lot of money. Installing
power factor correction equipment can also be done to get out of an
upgrade.

In most office installations I have seen, the load drawn by computers
is not really significant compared to the other loads in the building.
Having said that, they certainly cant be forgotten about, but compared
to the hundred of amps per phase the combined aircon load is, its
pretty small.

Anyway, that is based on what I have seen.

Cheers
James