varicaps?

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:44:23 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

On 7/4/20 10:27 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-06 19:37, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/4/20 8:11 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-05 15:48, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-05 11:23, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 12:23:14 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-04 19:04, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-03 07:42, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-03 03:56, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:21:17 -0700, Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

On 2020-04-01 17:29, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 7:31:01 PM UTC-4, Phil
Allison wrote:
Joerg wrote:

-------------

Up to about 30pf they'll likely remain. Skyworks and
such. Those with large capacitances lost their
market.



** AM radio has disappeared ??

News to me.

My car doesn't even receive AM, only FM, Sirius XM and
Slacker Internet radio.


I would not want that radio in my car. I listen to AM most
of the time when driving, and not just then.


..  Oh, and bluetooth from your phone.  But no AM radio.
I think they could do that 100% in software if they
wanted to.  It's only 1600 kHz max frequency.


Well, they don't go that far but everything is PLL or DDS
nowadays. There simply isn't a need any longer for large
capacitance varicaps to run the local oscillator. As for
the preselector (adjustable filter in front of the mixer),
that has fallen victim to the red pencil of the bean
counter, which has cost performance when in the vicinity of
other strong signals.

Selectivity ahead of the mixer was needed in the old days due
to mediocre mixers, usually a single transistor biased into
non-linearity. These mixers produced all kind of mixing
products, including images, mixing between all harmonics and
letting RF and LO frequencies through.


Using strong double balanced mixers (e.g diode rings), much
of the problems disappeared. By using a higher first IF, it
is also easy to get away with the image frequency response.
Thus, fixed tuned high pass filters below low end of the band
and low pass above the band is usually sufficient.

An arbitrarily strong mixer still needs selectivity to get rid
of the image frequency.  SSB mixers help, but are a lot more
complicated than a tuned RF stage, and rarely have better than
30-40 dB rejection.


That's why many professional receivers have a very high IF, tens
of MHz and sometimes above 100MHz, then mix down straight to
455kHz or wherever one can buy the best filters.



In battery powered equipment, in which the power consumption
is the premium issue, very strong mixers can't be used, but
in car and mains powered  receivers the use of strong high
power mixers is not a problem.


Not just that. With car radios every penny counts and I doubt
they will contain high-IP3 mixers. Probably not much more than a
glorified Gilbert cell in there.

Well, the TMUX1511 is only 40 cents in reels.  I use them in
switched attenuators, and they're the greatest--2 pF C_off, 5 ohms
R_on.  Almost like a relay.

When I looked for low resistance switches I found no shortage of low
voltage parts.  ą12 volt parts is a different matter.  But 2 pF is
low.


If you ever need a really fine and well-matched low capacitance quad
switch check out the SD5400 series. Just keep in mind that ESD-wise
they are the princess on the pea. One wee sneeze ... phut ... gone.

The SD5400 series are the same technology as the Si8901, iirc.

Originally designed and made here in Sydney, I believe. Each time that
company invents something useful, the technology gets sold off by
selling the company minus the R&D, and the company is reborn under a
new name, so I can never remember the name(s). They've done it at
least four times though.

CH



And the people probably get to live somewhere where the beer is better
and the wildlife isn't all trying to kill them.  A win all round. ;)

I dunno, the beer scene is incredible in Melbourne (most of those are
available here) and the local Four Pines is pretty good. Modus Operandi
is fantastic but at a silly price (like $double most craft beers). I've
been enjoying Grand Ridge recently, from Gippsland. If you haven't
visited Melbourne in the last five years, I daresay you really don't
know enough to comment on the beers. And the coffee scene is better than
anywhere else on earth, including Seattle.

Wildlife... well I haven't died yet. Seen the odd shark while swimming
(even a few scary ones - we get out!) and a funnel-web spider once, but
apart from that, the worst I've had is a couple of tick bites.

CH

The Monk's Kettle near here always has one draft available for about
$75 a glass.

The burgers are good. And there is always a Pot Pie of the Night.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 20:27:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-04-06 19:37, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/4/20 8:11 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-05 15:48, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-05 11:23, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 12:23:14 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-04 19:04, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-03 07:42, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-03 03:56, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:21:17 -0700, Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

On 2020-04-01 17:29, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 7:31:01 PM UTC-4, Phil
Allison wrote:
Joerg wrote:

-------------

Up to about 30pf they'll likely remain. Skyworks and
such. Those with large capacitances lost their
market.



** AM radio has disappeared ??

News to me.

My car doesn't even receive AM, only FM, Sirius XM and
Slacker Internet radio.


I would not want that radio in my car. I listen to AM most
of the time when driving, and not just then.


..  Oh, and bluetooth from your phone.  But no AM radio.
I think they could do that 100% in software if they
wanted to.  It's only 1600 kHz max frequency.


Well, they don't go that far but everything is PLL or DDS
nowadays. There simply isn't a need any longer for large
capacitance varicaps to run the local oscillator. As for
the preselector (adjustable filter in front of the mixer),
that has fallen victim to the red pencil of the bean
counter, which has cost performance when in the vicinity of
other strong signals.

Selectivity ahead of the mixer was needed in the old days due
to mediocre mixers, usually a single transistor biased into
non-linearity. These mixers produced all kind of mixing
products, including images, mixing between all harmonics and
letting RF and LO frequencies through.


Using strong double balanced mixers (e.g diode rings), much
of the problems disappeared. By using a higher first IF, it
is also easy to get away with the image frequency response.
Thus, fixed tuned high pass filters below low end of the band
and low pass above the band is usually sufficient.

An arbitrarily strong mixer still needs selectivity to get rid
of the image frequency.  SSB mixers help, but are a lot more
complicated than a tuned RF stage, and rarely have better than
30-40 dB rejection.


That's why many professional receivers have a very high IF, tens
of MHz and sometimes above 100MHz, then mix down straight to
455kHz or wherever one can buy the best filters.



In battery powered equipment, in which the power consumption
is the premium issue, very strong mixers can't be used, but
in car and mains powered  receivers the use of strong high
power mixers is not a problem.


Not just that. With car radios every penny counts and I doubt
they will contain high-IP3 mixers. Probably not much more than a
glorified Gilbert cell in there.

Well, the TMUX1511 is only 40 cents in reels.  I use them in
switched attenuators, and they're the greatest--2 pF C_off, 5 ohms
R_on.  Almost like a relay.

When I looked for low resistance switches I found no shortage of low
voltage parts.  ą12 volt parts is a different matter.  But 2 pF is
low.


If you ever need a really fine and well-matched low capacitance quad
switch check out the SD5400 series. Just keep in mind that ESD-wise
they are the princess on the pea. One wee sneeze ... phut ... gone.

The SD5400 series are the same technology as the Si8901, iirc.

Originally designed and made here in Sydney, I believe. Each time that
company invents something useful, the technology gets sold off by
selling the company minus the R&D, and the company is reborn under a new
name, so I can never remember the name(s). They've done it at least four
times though.

CH



And the people probably get to live somewhere where the beer is better
and the wildlife isn't all trying to kill them. A win all round. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I've been told that Aussies won't drink Fosters themselves. They only
export it.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On 2020-04-06 20:44, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/4/20 10:27 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-06 19:37, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/4/20 8:11 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-05 15:48, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-05 11:23, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 12:23:14 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-04 19:04, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-03 07:42, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-03 03:56, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:21:17 -0700, Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

On 2020-04-01 17:29, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 7:31:01 PM UTC-4, Phil
Allison wrote:
Joerg wrote:

-------------

Up to about 30pf they'll likely remain. Skyworks and
such. Those with large capacitances lost their
market.



** AM radio has disappeared ??

News to me.

My car doesn't even receive AM, only FM, Sirius XM and
Slacker Internet radio.


I would not want that radio in my car. I listen to AM most
of the time when driving, and not just then.


..  Oh, and bluetooth from your phone.  But no AM radio.
I think they could do that 100% in software if they
wanted to.  It's only 1600 kHz max frequency.


Well, they don't go that far but everything is PLL or DDS
nowadays. There simply isn't a need any longer for large
capacitance varicaps to run the local oscillator. As for
the preselector (adjustable filter in front of the mixer),
that has fallen victim to the red pencil of the bean
counter, which has cost performance when in the vicinity of
other strong signals.

Selectivity ahead of the mixer was needed in the old days due
to mediocre mixers, usually a single transistor biased into
non-linearity. These mixers produced all kind of mixing
products, including images, mixing between all harmonics and
letting RF and LO frequencies through.


Using strong double balanced mixers (e.g diode rings), much
of the problems disappeared. By using a higher first IF, it
is also easy to get away with the image frequency response.
Thus, fixed tuned high pass filters below low end of the band
and low pass above the band is usually sufficient.

An arbitrarily strong mixer still needs selectivity to get rid
of the image frequency.  SSB mixers help, but are a lot more
complicated than a tuned RF stage, and rarely have better than
30-40 dB rejection.


That's why many professional receivers have a very high IF, tens
of MHz and sometimes above 100MHz, then mix down straight to
455kHz or wherever one can buy the best filters.



In battery powered equipment, in which the power consumption
is the premium issue, very strong mixers can't be used, but
in car and mains powered  receivers the use of strong high
power mixers is not a problem.


Not just that. With car radios every penny counts and I doubt
they will contain high-IP3 mixers. Probably not much more than a
glorified Gilbert cell in there.

Well, the TMUX1511 is only 40 cents in reels.  I use them in
switched attenuators, and they're the greatest--2 pF C_off, 5 ohms
R_on.  Almost like a relay.

When I looked for low resistance switches I found no shortage of low
voltage parts.  ¹12 volt parts is a different matter.  But 2 pF is
low.


If you ever need a really fine and well-matched low capacitance
quad switch check out the SD5400 series. Just keep in mind that
ESD-wise they are the princess on the pea. One wee sneeze ... phut
... gone.

The SD5400 series are the same technology as the Si8901, iirc.

Originally designed and made here in Sydney, I believe. Each time
that company invents something useful, the technology gets sold off
by selling the company minus the R&D, and the company is reborn under
a new name, so I can never remember the name(s). They've done it at
least four times though.

CH



And the people probably get to live somewhere where the beer is better
and the wildlife isn't all trying to kill them.  A win all round. ;)

I dunno, the beer scene is incredible in Melbourne (most of those are
available here) and the local Four Pines is pretty good. Modus Operandi
is fantastic but at a silly price (like $double most craft beers). I've
been enjoying Grand Ridge recently, from Gippsland. If you haven't
visited Melbourne in the last five years, I daresay you really don't
know enough to comment on the beers. And the coffee scene is better than
anywhere else on earth, including Seattle.

Well, local loyalty is a nice thing. Have you been to Seattle or NY
recently?

Wildlife... well I haven't died yet. Seen the odd shark while swimming
(even a few scary ones - we get out!) and a funnel-web spider once, but
apart from that, the worst I've had is a couple of tick bites.

CH

<https://preview.tinyurl.com/rg7mtru>

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On 7/4/20 11:24 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 20:27:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
And the people probably get to live somewhere where the beer is better
and the wildlife isn't all trying to kill them. A win all round. ;)
I've been told that Aussies won't drink Fosters themselves. They only
export it.

I forget when I last drank any CUB product, but it must be well over a
decade.

CH
 
On 7/4/20 11:10 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-06 20:44, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/4/20 10:27 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-06 19:37, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/4/20 8:11 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-05 15:48, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-05 11:23, Ricky C wrote:
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 12:23:14 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-04 19:04, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-04-03 07:42, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-04-03 03:56, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:21:17 -0700, Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

On 2020-04-01 17:29, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 7:31:01 PM UTC-4, Phil
Allison wrote:
Joerg wrote:

-------------

Up to about 30pf they'll likely remain. Skyworks and
such. Those with large capacitances lost their
market.



** AM radio has disappeared ??

News to me.

My car doesn't even receive AM, only FM, Sirius XM and
Slacker Internet radio.


I would not want that radio in my car. I listen to AM most
of the time when driving, and not just then.


..  Oh, and bluetooth from your phone.  But no AM radio.
I think they could do that 100% in software if they
wanted to.  It's only 1600 kHz max frequency.


Well, they don't go that far but everything is PLL or DDS
nowadays. There simply isn't a need any longer for large
capacitance varicaps to run the local oscillator. As for
the preselector (adjustable filter in front of the mixer),
that has fallen victim to the red pencil of the bean
counter, which has cost performance when in the vicinity of
other strong signals.

Selectivity ahead of the mixer was needed in the old days due
to mediocre mixers, usually a single transistor biased into
non-linearity. These mixers produced all kind of mixing
products, including images, mixing between all harmonics and
letting RF and LO frequencies through.


Using strong double balanced mixers (e.g diode rings), much
of the problems disappeared. By using a higher first IF, it
is also easy to get away with the image frequency response.
Thus, fixed tuned high pass filters below low end of the band
and low pass above the band is usually sufficient.

An arbitrarily strong mixer still needs selectivity to get rid
of the image frequency.  SSB mixers help, but are a lot more
complicated than a tuned RF stage, and rarely have better than
30-40 dB rejection.


That's why many professional receivers have a very high IF, tens
of MHz and sometimes above 100MHz, then mix down straight to
455kHz or wherever one can buy the best filters.



In battery powered equipment, in which the power consumption
is the premium issue, very strong mixers can't be used, but
in car and mains powered  receivers the use of strong high
power mixers is not a problem.


Not just that. With car radios every penny counts and I doubt
they will contain high-IP3 mixers. Probably not much more than a
glorified Gilbert cell in there.

Well, the TMUX1511 is only 40 cents in reels.  I use them in
switched attenuators, and they're the greatest--2 pF C_off, 5 ohms
R_on.  Almost like a relay.

When I looked for low resistance switches I found no shortage of low
voltage parts.  ¹12 volt parts is a different matter.  But 2 pF is
low.


If you ever need a really fine and well-matched low capacitance
quad switch check out the SD5400 series. Just keep in mind that
ESD-wise they are the princess on the pea. One wee sneeze ... phut
... gone.

The SD5400 series are the same technology as the Si8901, iirc.

Originally designed and made here in Sydney, I believe. Each time
that company invents something useful, the technology gets sold off
by selling the company minus the R&D, and the company is reborn
under a new name, so I can never remember the name(s). They've done
it at least four times though.
And the people probably get to live somewhere where the beer is
better and the wildlife isn't all trying to kill them.  A win all
round. ;)

I dunno, the beer scene is incredible in Melbourne (most of those are
available here) and the local Four Pines is pretty good. Modus
Operandi is fantastic but at a silly price (like $double most craft
beers). I've been enjoying Grand Ridge recently, from Gippsland. If
you haven't visited Melbourne in the last five years, I daresay you
really don't know enough to comment on the beers. And the coffee scene
is better than anywhere else on earth, including Seattle.

Well, local loyalty is a nice thing.  Have you been to Seattle or NY
recently?

Not since 2016, and only west coast then. How recently do you mean?

Wildlife... well I haven't died yet. Seen the odd shark while swimming
(even a few scary ones - we get out!) and a funnel-web spider once,
but apart from that, the worst I've had is a couple of tick bites.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/rg7mtru

Love that shot and caption :)

I have a similar shot I took when I caught a micro-bat in our house
once, before I released it outside. It had come down the chimney and was
flying about the living room. I cornered it in the laundry and managed
to throw a hand-towel over it to catch it without getting bitten, then
got it by the scruff of the neck. Impressive teeth and snarl for
something the size of a mouse.

CH
 
On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 4:42:26 AM UTC-7,
> They can self-report the chip temperature, which can be fun.

What I've found is that the Artix built-in ADC is OK for supply voltage/
current monitoring, but poor for temperature. The error varies from one
part to the next, but I often see 30C to 33C right after power-on in
a 25C environment. The reading is always artificially high.

No idea about the linearity, but given how bad the +b part is, I'm not
optimistic about the Mx part.

It probably doesn't help the overall XADC performance to put the relevant
power and reference pins right in the middle of the BGA footprint, where
it's hard to get clean voltage to them. That's not the cause of the
temperature anomaly, but it might have something to do with whatever
problems you've had.

-- john, KE5FX
 
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:25:56 -0700 (PDT), "John Miles, KE5FX"
<jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 4:42:26 AM UTC-7,
They can self-report the chip temperature, which can be fun.

What I've found is that the Artix built-in ADC is OK for supply voltage/
current monitoring, but poor for temperature. The error varies from one
part to the next, but I often see 30C to 33C right after power-on in
a 25C environment. The reading is always artificially high.

No idea about the linearity, but given how bad the +b part is, I'm not
optimistic about the Mx part.

It probably doesn't help the overall XADC performance to put the relevant
power and reference pins right in the middle of the BGA footprint, where
it's hard to get clean voltage to them. That's not the cause of the
temperature anomaly, but it might have something to do with whatever
problems you've had.

-- john, KE5FX

We've used the XADC for power supply monitoring and for compensating
delay tempcos internal to the chip. Neither needs a very good ADC, so
we can't complain of problems. It's a free, mediocre ADC.

On some older chips, we've used a ring oscillator to measure die
temperature, to evaluate pcb thermals and fpga heat sinking.





--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 

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