UPS: "Do not connect laser printer..."

"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:urrf65l98b09ihfgaak2kjf7r7ubsrq8re@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:39:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I think then, that you have been very very lucky. Perhaps the ones you
have
are so old that they come from a time when Epson could still build
printers
that were not worthless junk, designed to gobble as much ink as they
possibly can, from every cartridge fitted, when the jets on the end of
just
one of them, have clogged. In fact, I think you are the first person I
have
ever come across, who has not had a bad experience with one (cue hundreds
of
lurkers to now come out of the woodwork, protesting what marvellous
machines
they are ...)

Arfa


OK then. Count me as well, i have an old Epson color 860 that still
works fine and an Epson R200 as my main printer. Of course i only use
them a little bit. Replaced the inks many times due to finally
running out.

Here's a question. Is it because the Epsons that seem to prevail over long
periods, get only light use, as you say yours do, so only get turned on
when
needed ? I think that this has a lot to do with the clogging problems of
the
printers that Epson offer these days. I like to have my printer always on
and 'ready to roll'. I can't be doing with waiting 5 minutes while the
thing
coughs and wheezes its way to being ready. When I need to print something
out, I need to do it now. The HPs seem to have a proper 'sleep' mode where
the heads 'park' over the seal, as it goes to sleep. The Epsons appear to
just 'stop' with the heads where they were last left. They only seem to
park
if you do a full shutdown. IMHO, this is the reason that the heads clog.
Being left out in open space, the ink just dries in the nozzles. Once it
has
done, it can take several cleaning cycles to recover them. The fact that
colours cannot be cleaned individually, is a royal pain in the arse, and
leads to huge ink wastage.

OTOH, my current HP is now probably 3+ years old, and has never been turned
off apart from the occasional need to do a full reset, when for some reason
the network has lost it, and it needs to be forced to talk to the router to
get a new IP address allocated.

To be fair to the Epsons that I have owned, I have never had an issue with
their general performance, speed, or print quality. I just find this head
clogging thing, which is a well known problem, sooooo frustrating, to the
point where I just get mad with them, which ain't good for the old
hypertension ...

Arfa

Interesting. Both of mine are on continuously. And both park the
Click to expand...
heads in sealed cups. Proper head parking is known to make a big
difference. Must be why printers that do not cap the heads combine
the print head into the ink cartridge.

So, how old are your Epsons ? None of the ones that I owned ever parked
properly. I wonder if they stopped doing it on later or cheaper models, for
some reason. OTOH, my HPs have all parked to a sealed area, yet some of them
have had the heads on the cartridge, and some haven't. The 5180 that I
currently use, has external heads, but they have never clogged as long as I
have owned it, so yes, correct parking is definitely significant in this.

Arfa
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:59:43 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>wrote:

"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:atie65p844gn76k5t31d5hne1q9ttrqv5g@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:24:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Well, not really, but it's all been a very long time ago now. You leave
school, go to college, grow up a bit, get married, raise kids, and become
a
responsible citizen :-( Then you start to get old, and become a grump,
remembering what a good bloke you were back in the day. Guess I'm close to
slipping into that phase now. Grown up kids look at me like I'm mad when
they see me with an iPod stuck in my lugholes, listening to the likes of
Uriah Heep and Dr John ...

Arfa


Did they bring you a blunt yet?

Too cryptic for me this time of night ... A blunt what ... ? Knife ?
Instrument ? :)

Arfa
Click to expand...
Cheap cigar unstuffed, contents replaced with a mix of cigar tobacco
and Cannabis.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:58:42 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:cfsf659md8cr929bea11br0o4dttgeodsf@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:59:43 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:atie65p844gn76k5t31d5hne1q9ttrqv5g@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:24:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Well, not really, but it's all been a very long time ago now. You leave
school, go to college, grow up a bit, get married, raise kids, and
become
a
responsible citizen :-( Then you start to get old, and become a
grump,
remembering what a good bloke you were back in the day. Guess I'm close
to
slipping into that phase now. Grown up kids look at me like I'm mad when
they see me with an iPod stuck in my lugholes, listening to the likes of
Uriah Heep and Dr John ...

Arfa


Did they bring you a blunt yet?

Too cryptic for me this time of night ... A blunt what ... ? Knife ?
Instrument ? :)

Arfa

Damn. I forgot the era.

A DOOBIE!

Errr, nope, not with that one either ... An 'Americanism' that I'm not
familiar with, maybe ? ):-|

Puzzled Arfa ...
Click to expand...
A friggin' joint! A SPLEEF.

Or, as was said in "The Magic Christian" Damnable Wog Hemp!
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:35:19 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net>
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:59:43 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>wrote:


"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:atie65p844gn76k5t31d5hne1q9ttrqv5g@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:24:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Well, not really, but it's all been a very long time ago now. You leave
school, go to college, grow up a bit, get married, raise kids, and become
a
responsible citizen :-( Then you start to get old, and become a grump,
remembering what a good bloke you were back in the day. Guess I'm close to
slipping into that phase now. Grown up kids look at me like I'm mad when
they see me with an iPod stuck in my lugholes, listening to the likes of
Uriah Heep and Dr John ...

Arfa


Did they bring you a blunt yet?

Too cryptic for me this time of night ... A blunt what ... ? Knife ?
Instrument ? :)

Arfa


Cheap cigar unstuffed, contents replaced with a mix of cigar tobacco
and Cannabis.
Click to expand...
Does not always involve tobacco, nor does it require any... at all.
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:05:27 -0700, FatBytestard
<FatBytestard@somewheronyourharddrive.org> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:35:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:


My clamp-on amps guesser has a peak hold function. I'll try it out on
some of my LaserJet printers in the office and see what it shows.

Wont you have to open up the IEC power cord and clamp only a single
path?
Click to expand...
Nope. I have an adapter that came with a Radio Shock clamp on
Amps-guesser. 22-161 multiplier.
<http://support.radioshack.com/support_meters/doc21/21584.htm>
It's the device on the right. It's a double loop, with 10 turns in
one loop, and one turn in the other. With the clamp-on ammeter in the
10x loop, the current readings are 10 times larger, making low current
readings much easier. In the 1x loop, it effectively splits the line.
Very handy.

Incidentally, the clamp-on meter is a Honeytek A902 that I bought on
eBay many years ago. Not great, but it has the features I wanted. 2A
full scale, temperature probe, and peak hold. The peak hold is handy
for measuring laser printer inrush current, but I was more interested
in the peak current at a remote radio site, where transmitters are
constantly and randomly drawing current.

I also notice that many of these are powered with standard 10A IEC line
cords. How can that be right for a device with such high usage
declarations?
Click to expand...
Dunno, but I can guess. Current capacity standards for device cords
are tested for maximum wire heating. While the 23A inrush current
might seem rather high, it only appears for perhaps a second, when the
fuser initially warms up. After that, the operating current of the
laserjet is well withing the current limitations of a common #14AWG
power cord. Try it. Does the cord get warm when furiously printing?
Probably not.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:35:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

My clamp-on amps guesser has a peak hold function. I'll try it out on
some of my LaserJet printers in the office and see what it shows.
Click to expand...
Well, I just tried it at home. 46A peak on startup for my HP LaserJet
2100 printer (at US standard 117VAC/60Hz). Ouch. I did it several
different ways and came up with roughly the same result. I couldn't
have done it without the "max hold" function on the Honeytek A902
clamp on ammeter because the inrush current doesn't last very long.
46A peak will certainly cause problems for any UPS running in backup
mode.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:j1qg65dofbhqv4c8er7nq7jf5aml2p5d1g@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:58:42 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:cfsf659md8cr929bea11br0o4dttgeodsf@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:59:43 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:atie65p844gn76k5t31d5hne1q9ttrqv5g@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:24:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Well, not really, but it's all been a very long time ago now. You
leave
school, go to college, grow up a bit, get married, raise kids, and
become
a
responsible citizen :-( Then you start to get old, and become a
grump,
remembering what a good bloke you were back in the day. Guess I'm
close
to
slipping into that phase now. Grown up kids look at me like I'm mad
when
they see me with an iPod stuck in my lugholes, listening to the likes
of
Uriah Heep and Dr John ...

Arfa


Did they bring you a blunt yet?

Too cryptic for me this time of night ... A blunt what ... ? Knife ?
Instrument ? :)

Arfa

Damn. I forgot the era.

A DOOBIE!

Errr, nope, not with that one either ... An 'Americanism' that I'm not
familiar with, maybe ? ):-|

Puzzled Arfa ...


A friggin' joint! A SPLEEF.

Or, as was said in "The Magic Christian" Damnable Wog Hemp!
Click to expand...
Ah ! Right ! Shoulda realised ... Funnily enough, I don't think that I have
ever heard either of the first two words used here. But then the older I
get, the more addled I seem to become, so I probably have, and just
forgotten ... d;~}

Arfa
 
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h49n37$gj7$1@news.eternal-september.org...
And we have the brass neck to lecture *our* kids about responsible
behaviour
!! When I relate some of these tales of schoolboy pranks to my kids,
they
can't believe what a bad lot we were back then ... :))

Simply repeating the common pattern of the last few thousand years, I
think. The younger generation is *always* reckless and irresponsible,
hell-bent on disaster, and disrespectful of the wisdom of their elders
(from the POV of the elders), and the elders are conservative
hypocritical stick-in-the-muds who have forgotten how to live and who
are obviously guilty for completely yngvi'ing up the world (from the
POV of the younger set).

It's been that way at least since Aristotle, and probably a whole lot
longer than that.

I suspect you speak the truth Dave ...

Sorry, but I disagree. The US has been on a downhill path ever since it
decided, after WWII, that children would rule this country.
Click to expand...
Oh, I don't dispute that overall, standards seem to be dropping for the
reason you give, and probably others as well. Same sort of thing here. I was
just agreeing with the general principles of how every generation knows
better than the one coming up, and the one coming up blames the previous one
for all the shortcomings of the world, and treats them as though they know
nothing about life when you're young ...

Arfa
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:20:36 -0700, Jupiter Jaq
<JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org>wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:35:19 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:59:43 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>wrote:


"Jupiter Jaq" <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote in message
news:atie65p844gn76k5t31d5hne1q9ttrqv5g@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:24:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Well, not really, but it's all been a very long time ago now. You leave
school, go to college, grow up a bit, get married, raise kids, and become
a
responsible citizen :-( Then you start to get old, and become a grump,
remembering what a good bloke you were back in the day. Guess I'm close to
slipping into that phase now. Grown up kids look at me like I'm mad when
they see me with an iPod stuck in my lugholes, listening to the likes of
Uriah Heep and Dr John ...

Arfa


Did they bring you a blunt yet?

Too cryptic for me this time of night ... A blunt what ... ? Knife ?
Instrument ? :)

Arfa


Cheap cigar unstuffed, contents replaced with a mix of cigar tobacco
and Cannabis.

Does not always involve tobacco, nor does it require any... at all.
Click to expand...
I'll let you have the honor to be the expert on rolling blunts.
 
On 22 Jul, 11:39, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
The HPs seem to have a proper 'sleep' mode where
the heads 'park' over the seal, as it goes to sleep. The Epsons appear to
just 'stop' with the heads where they were last left.
Click to expand...
This is not true, all Epsons I have seen and repaired park the heads a
few seconds after the last print job.

The fact that
colours cannot be cleaned individually, is a royal pain in the arse, and
leads to huge ink wastage.
Click to expand...
Yes, yet old style Epsons (like Epson stylus 500, color II, stylus
pro, etc) allowed to clean B/W and color separately and they really
did separately, those old printers were very realiable if used with
proper inks and almost never clogged. This started to decay after the
stylus color 400 when they redesigned all and made b/w and color
injectors the same block. Yet, used carefully and with properly
selected inks that do not clog easily they work fine. I have been
using refills for all my Epsons and it turns out a lot cheaper than
HPs and works great.

I have found Epson printers are very sensitive to their environment,
place it near something warm (for example on top of a PC) or where air
circulation is likely and you are going to face lots of clogs. On the
other hand if you place in a cool (ambient temp) non ventilated place
you can have it turned off for months and it will work straight.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:21:51 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

After that, the operating current of the
laserjet is well withing the current limitations of a common #14AWG
power cord. Try it. Does the cord get warm when furiously printing?
Probably not.
Click to expand...
Most 10A IEC line cords use around 20 Ga for the conductors, which is
also a borderline choice IMNSHO.

Whenever a company I am working for goes to throw out the old crap, I
look for heavier gauge IEC line cords every time.

I hate those paper thin jobs that are so proliferant.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:40:56 -0700 (PDT), Jeroni Paul
<JERONI.PAUL@terra.es> wrote:

. Yet, used carefully and with properly
selected inks that do not clog easily they work fine
Click to expand...

I do not want to send print jobs, being sure to do so "carefully". I
want to hit print, and get print, without ANY "extra care". That is
pathetic.

I also have yet to see an Epson that did not have nozzle clog issues,
and use up half your ink flooding them out in attempts to clear them.

Absolutely pathetic print engine paradigm.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:40:56 -0700 (PDT), Jeroni Paul
<JERONI.PAUL@terra.es> wrote:

I have been
using refills for all my Epsons and it turns out a lot cheaper than
HPs and works great.
Click to expand...
If you print so much that you have to run around trying different inks,
and finding ways to economize your print tasks, it sounds to me like you
print enough to warrant a Laser printer.

Oh Boy! All problems have ceased! AND I can print 3000 pages or more,
which is abso-fucking-lutely impossible on an ink jet printer. (he
declared)

Use your brain properly and get enough sense to know that you should be
printing to a laser printer. You could have probably paid for one twice
by now, and would still be saving money.

Also, laser printers have become dirt cheap. They are the de facto
standard for a business that actually has a lot of print tasks to do.

They also carry a higher resale value, and jet printer depreciate to
zero very quickly.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:51:41 -0700, FatBytestard
<FatBytestard@somewheronyourharddrive.org> wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:21:51 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

After that, the operating current of the
laserjet is well withing the current limitations of a common #14AWG
power cord. Try it. Does the cord get warm when furiously printing?
Probably not.
Click to expand...
Oops, I lied. My extension cords are #14AwG. All the computah and
printah power cords I could find in the pile are #18AWG 3 conductors.

Most 10A IEC line cords use around 20 Ga for the conductors, which is
also a borderline choice IMNSHO.
Click to expand...
I've never seen one with #20AWG. That would be an IEC 320 C13.
Digging.... well Wikipedia is no help:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector>
Googling for "IEC 320 C13 AWG" yields lots of #18AWG cords, and
nothing else.

Whenever a company I am working for goes to throw out the old crap, I
look for heavier gauge IEC line cords every time.
Click to expand...
I have a few of those "heavy guage" cords that were supplied with
laser printers, copiers, and big servers. They also say #14 AWG. The
"heavy duty" construction seems to be a matter of using more plastic
and PVC jacket, than adding more copper.

I hate those paper thin jobs that are so proliferant.
Click to expand...
I kinda like them. They're really handy for test cords on my
workbench. They aren't stiff and don't get in the way. I have about
6 of them installed on various power strips on the bench. They all
are #18 AWG.
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:13:35 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net>
wrote:

Isn't pure Iodine highly unstable?
Click to expand...
No. Ammonium tri-Iodide and Nitrogen Tri-Iodide are the traditional
unstable contact explosive. Great fun in high skool and college
blowing things up. It was also probably the origin of the term
"purple haze". It's fairly easy to make and equally easy to have a
spectacular accident.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlAf936E90>
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:14:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Googling for "IEC 320 C13 AWG" yields lots of #18AWG cords, and
nothing else.
Click to expand...
It is just very flimsy 18Ga, soft PVC. Give me 16ga or higher any day.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:27:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:13:35 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net

Isn't pure Iodine highly unstable?

No. Ammonium tri-Iodide and Nitrogen Tri-Iodide are the traditional
unstable contact explosive. Great fun in high skool and college
blowing things up. It was also probably the origin of the term
"purple haze". It's fairly easy to make and equally easy to have a
spectacular accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlAf936E90
Click to expand...
What ever happened to fulminate of mercury?

Thanks,
Rich
 
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:29:51 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:27:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:13:35 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net

Isn't pure Iodine highly unstable?

No. Ammonium tri-Iodide and Nitrogen Tri-Iodide are the traditional
unstable contact explosive. Great fun in high skool and college
blowing things up. It was also probably the origin of the term
"purple haze". It's fairly easy to make and equally easy to have a
spectacular accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlAf936E90

What ever happened to fulminate of mercury?

Thanks,
Rich
Click to expand...
The ingredients became a bit tougher to come by and more expensive,
same for lead picrate.

--
Transmitted with recycled bits.
----------
 
Meat Plow wrote:
What about not being a bubble jet printer? Aren't all HP print
cartridges equipped with a bubble jet print head?
Click to expand...
You're confusing BubbleJets (Canon) with InkJets (HP/Epson). The former
use a heating element per pixel, the latter use a piezo element.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Jeroni Paul wrote:
On 22 Jul, 11:39, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
The HPs seem to have a proper 'sleep' mode where
the heads 'park' over the seal, as it goes to sleep. The Epsons appear to
just 'stop' with the heads where they were last left.

This is not true, all Epsons I have seen and repaired park the heads a
few seconds after the last print job.

The fact that
colours cannot be cleaned individually, is a royal pain in the arse, and
leads to huge ink wastage.

Yes, yet old style Epsons (like Epson stylus 500, color II, stylus
pro, etc) allowed to clean B/W and color separately and they really
did separately, those old printers were very realiable if used with
proper inks and almost never clogged. This started to decay after the
stylus color 400 when they redesigned all and made b/w and color
injectors the same block. Yet, used carefully and with properly
selected inks that do not clog easily they work fine. I have been
using refills for all my Epsons and it turns out a lot cheaper than
HPs and works great.

I have found Epson printers are very sensitive to their environment,
place it near something warm (for example on top of a PC) or where air
circulation is likely and you are going to face lots of clogs. On the
other hand if you place in a cool (ambient temp) non ventilated place
you can have it turned off for months and it will work straight.
Click to expand...
Yep. I've found the same thing.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
 
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