U.S. Gearing Up To Become World\'s Supplier Of Lithium...

[server]

On 5 Sep 2022 16:08:12 GMT, Robert Latest <boblatest@yahoo.com> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.

The green movement is precisely intended to create energy poverty in
the working classes, and part of that is to take away our cars. So the
elites will have more room on the freeways for their SUV caravans on
the way to their private jets.

Really.

 

[server]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.

Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be
used for utility backup? So they can run down their batteries while
other people recharge!

 

[Ed Lee]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.
Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be
used for utility backup? So they can run down their batteries while
other people recharge!

If I get free parking at the airport and be sure that it is charged up before arrival. That might work.

 

[server]

On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:52:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.


If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

Jeroen Belleman

People in China, India, Africa, Indonesia want what we have: electric
lights, cars, clean cooking fuel, safe hot and cold water, fans and
air conditioning, transport, internet, schools, vermin-free floors,
beds and chairs and stuff. And they will get all that. That will take
energy.

 

[server]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 13:30:14 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.
Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be
used for utility backup? So they can run down their batteries while
other people recharge!

If I get free parking at the airport and be sure that it is charged up before arrival. That might work.

How many cars are parked at airports? Surely not 0.1%.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 02:25 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.

Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be
used for utility backup? So they can run down their batteries while
other people recharge!

Volunteer? How many workers with a high school education are going to
volunteer to pay of the student loans of college \'educated\' gender
studies experts?

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 02:31 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:52:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.


If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

Jeroen Belleman

People in China, India, Africa, Indonesia want what we have: electric
lights, cars, clean cooking fuel, safe hot and cold water, fans and
air conditioning, transport, internet, schools, vermin-free floors,
beds and chairs and stuff. And they will get all that. That will take
energy.

And screw the polar bears... I can\'t say that I blame them.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 6:32:11 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:52:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jer...@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-09-05 18:08, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and
if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.


If anything, I\'d expect the number of cars on the road to grow.
Soon we\'ll see driverless cars going somewhere all by themselves
to pick someone up!

People in China, India, Africa, Indonesia want what we have: electric
lights, cars, clean cooking fuel, safe hot and cold water, fans and
air conditioning, transport, internet, schools, vermin-free floors,
beds and chairs and stuff. And they will get all that. That will take
energy.

Which they will get cheaply from solar cells backed up by batteries. Not because they will be greenies, but because it is the cheapest way to get the energy, and they don\'t have to wait for their national government to build a grid system to deliver the power from some remote fossil-fueled generating system.

As they get more prosperous they\'ll invest large chunks of capital in wind-turbines and more batteries and a little local grid that will distribute the power from one or two wind turbines to a whole village.

John Larkin is dumb enough to think that poor people today are going to get electrified in the same way they were in Edison\'s America or Lenin\'s Russia.
The technology has moved on from there, even if John Larkin\'s thinking hasn\'t.

The climate change denial propaganda - which he parrots quite frequently - is written by the fossil carbon extraction industry with the aim of keeping people buying fossil carbon fuel for a few years longer than is economically sensible. It\'s nuts, but John hasn\'t noticed.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 6:25:59 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 9:25:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:08:20 AM UTC+10, Robert Latest wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The world may not have enough lithium to go all electric on cars and
trucks, much less utility storage to back up wind and solar for days
and weeks.

Maybe the world needs to realize that it doesn\'t need all that many cars, and if electricity were used smarter, not as much storage.
There are alternative to getting around in cars. In densely populated areas, public transport works are great deal better - there isn\'t enough room in a big city for the road area to accommodate all the cars, or the parking stations to put them while the owners go about their business in the city.

In less densely populated areas cars are lot harder to replace, and it makes sense to store the electric power in batteries that travel around in the cars. Since the average car is parked for 95% of the time and rarely needs to be recharged rapidly their batteries could provide a lot of the storage that intermittent renewable energy sources need.

We just need more reliable chargers around and we can carry smaller batteries.

If all cars were electric, the batteries in the parked cars could deliver about a three times as much power as the grid as a whole (if only for a couple of hours).

If and only if they are tied to the grid.

Hard to charge them up if they aren\'t.

> Insanity. How many people are going to volunteer for their cars to be used for utility backup?

As I pointed out when I posted that - the line does seem to have been snipped,

\"Rick C does have an emotional objection to the idea, but if the car owners were paid enough for the service they might feel better about it. \"

The owners wouldn\'t be \"volunteering\" their cars, but selling access to them for a price.

> So they can run down their batteries while other people recharge!

No. So that some other grid customers - the ones that find it worth their while to pay for 100% access - can get serviced when generating capacity is reduced. That might include people who are willing to pay through the nose to get their car recharged fast, and right now.

There are already industrial process that are power intensive but not time critical, and get cheap power on the basis that the grid can cut them off whenever generating capacity is reduced. Grid storage batteries are an extreme case of such a market.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney